Footers under new speakers

@pcrhkr Hi , interesting thoughts on JBL’s and drums. I have some 4312A’s that aren’t really that nice for home stereo. They are paired with Sound Anchor stands in an attempt to recapture my teen years. It was a big disappointment and a waste of funds. I’m totally unversed on the modern Audiophile products like the Everest and such. Of the Old stuff my most impressive experience was with Westlake BBSM -15’s that a friend had in his living room. That being said my thoughts are about “ drum kicks “ and overall bass. My brother is a talented amateur rock drummer with quality gear and I’ve grown up attending rock concerts. At home I’ve had success recreating decent bass that can roll on and off without that one tone boom. But what has been a struggle is that hit you in the chest drum kick. Looking back on a few random live shows I remember Supertramp in a theater remodeled for concerts. I inquired later about the fantastic sound quality and was told “ ATC “ speakers and thousands of watts. Another was ZZ Top outdoor small venue at my local fairgrounds. There were huge JBL arrays hanging from above with thousands of watts of power. The other was Green Day doing the American Idiot tour at a huge indoor arena, again huge power. I’m not that knowledgeable but my guess is there is that threshold with the appropriate speakers and enough power to get the air moving with enough force to hit you in the chest at that distance and create that effect. I hear about overhung and underhung drivers , damping factor within wattage and I kinda get it. My brother that drums takes me to the closed door seminars at his favorite drum shop. I’ve sat there and heard Tommy Aldridge , Carmine Appice and Kenny Aranoff amongst others play  and Wow ! Tommy on those oversized Yamahas and Carmine’s brute power on my brothers Tama’s is totally gut wrenching. But in my modestly funded adventures I’ve not achieved that at my house, although the Westlakes I mentioned with 700 wpc bi amped came pretty close. Anyway, just some random thoughts and thanks for your comments. I have a lot to learn. Regards, Mike B. 

@prof I wrote a long post earlier in the Thread. On reviewing your supplied Images I can see there are similarities for the methodologies we have selected for a Sub Support chosen for the Speakers.

The Backward Tilt is not strange to myself, as nor is the forward tilt. 

I'm sensing the 'Toe In' is also arranged to be optimised to the listening set up.

My set up is in a room that is solely used for Audio Purposes, which leaves me the options to use materials that are not as aesthetically neat finished as your own. We do share a like for similar materials in the assembly of the Sub Support.    

Interesting discussion. I have R11’s and Rythmik F12SE sub on a 2nd floor wood frame house with very heavy cut pile carpeting and padding. My system is jammed with fractions of an inch between speakers, rack (low/long) and sub, so have no room for platforms. Windows and walls limited. 
Would Gaia plus spikes be acoustically recommended? Thanks!

@signaforce I would imagine that the Isoacoustics gaia would work in your situation.  You would also need the carpet disks.  Their products are offered on Amazon and if you didn't like them you could always return them.  The question for Isoacoustics is if the spikes are needed or not.

@signaforce this is a recent video on isolation footers on Steve Guttenbergs channel and I thought it was well done.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAOD3aUfIYQ&t=629s

@signaforce , @goose . Yes that’s an interesting video. FWIT , I’m looking at the Gaia spikes to try in conjunction with some other items. The Townsends that I will be trying have a flat foot and sliders have been recommended and if size allows maybe the Gaia spikes. I plan on trying them on the carpet , but also on a spiked platform due to my carpet. Based on all the contributing comments, I plan on trying multiple approaches with different combinations. I will probably carry this over to component isolation/ decoupling. It’s been interesting to see all the things tried like hockey pucks, butcher blocks, marble slabs , mdf, ect. So thank you for your contributions gentlemen. Regards, Mike B. 

@buellrider97 I never got a chance to do a direct comparison with the Isoacoustics with my Townshend Podiums.  My Townshend podiums are directly on the carpet and the speakers are not spiked to the platform.  Based on my experiments, de-coupling vs coupling the speakers is the way to go.

@goose , Hi thanks again for your comments. I love your rig and am considering a similar rack to yours. Another random thought is this, my speakers are Tektons which have very basic MDF cabinets. I noticed when I went from just sitting on the carpet to spikes installed I created a noticeable amount of cabinet resonance. My thoughts are with my un spiked Tektons sitting on the carpet , their weight rested on the entire bottom surface which was pushed into the carpet. The spikes now lifted the cabinets off the dampened effect of the carpet and allowed the vibration to exist in the cabinets possibly exaggerated but transmitting through the blind nuts that hold them. In looking at a very high end speaker enclosure like a Wilson there are multiple layers of various materials to prevent this. Mine is simply a MDF box with blind nuts. Also when I get the Townsends I can set the bare speakers directly on them. I will experiment with some type of mat material also. Regards , Mike. 

     Well they finally shipped DHL from England. Next week I’ll set them up and share my thoughts. Cheers my Peers , Mike B. 

@ghdprentice ​​@jsalerno277 ​​@052rc ​​@slaw , @dekay ​​@noromance ​​@hilde45 ​​@sls883 , @tomcarr ​​@ronboco ​​, @goose , @wswright20 ​​@trecool99 , @emergingsoul  Good afternoon gentleman, the Townsends arrived a Monday. My order took 3 1/2 weeks using the Townsend ad on AGON. John is the rep for Townsend and he’s been OUTSTANDING! We’ve had numerous emails and he even called me from England. He’s 110 % dedicated to customer satisfaction and absolutely fantastic to work with. I had ZERO ISSUES with tariffs, duties or shipping through DHL. I’d like to thank everyone for your help. During this thread I had many side discussions and between what was recommended and the additional discussions, I came to the conclusion that the Townsends were favored. That being said I was still apprehensive due to the price , and all I can say is PM me for specifics. So the bottom line is they are an ABSOLUTE IMPROVEMENT PERIOD! Being of the old mindset spikes are superior, I had to take a leap of faith out of my comfort zone. This was based on your recommendations to me. I went straight to the Townsends and have not tried anything else. So here’s my experience and results. I purchased the Tekton DI’s new last month. They arrived and I ran them for the first week without the supplied spikes on my thick carpet. Keep in mind we’re also in a break in period. The first week I ran the speakers on the carpet and they could easily be swayed when I touched them. They settled in and sounded pretty good considering they were new and too close to the wall. Week two I spiked the speakers and put them in the same location. I could now hear cabinet resonances that weren’t there before. I think sitting bare bottom on the carpet stopped this. So now I have hollow sounding speakers and less bass that’s booming. After about 3 days I made sure the spikes were absolutely into the concrete and using a level set the speakers. I then took a pair of 10lb dumbbells and using a small towel put one on each speaker front to rear placement. All of this almost got me back to “ No Spikes “. At this point the Townsends had not arrived , but this was my first window into the possibility that decoupling will be an improvement. So now I have the Townsends and I’m home alone. So I mark the floor with masking tape again and move the speakers. I remove the factory spikes and realize the blind nuts in the cabinets stick out about 1/16” and I’m alone. So I took a piece of Kraft Paper slightly larger than the speaker and tape it by the edge to the podiums. I set the podiums in place and slide the speakers in place. I didn’t want to mar the finish and the paper was the least invasive idea besides tape. Now with the speakers in the same location as before I gave it a try. At first it sounded mid range forward with a huge reduction in bass. I was really dismayed and thought this was a huge mistake. As I let the music play I followed the instructions and began to lift the platforms. They shipped at their lowest height and they were resting in the carpet and the 3” footers needed to settle in. Over the next hour I went in 1/2 turn increments until I had 2 1/2 turns into them and also the footers pushed way down in the carpet. I left for the evening at this point and left the music on at about 55 db. On the way home John called from England and gave me some additional instruction, what service ! At this point they had played for about 6 hours and I took my bubble and leveled them. So what do they sound like ? Wow ! And Holy Sh*T ! They are absolutely fantastic and transformational. Keep in mind I’m on the wrong wall and the speakers need about 2 more feet off the back wall. However bass is twice what it was with spikes. It is fuller and smoother and at the same setting on my pre now rattles the walls. The mid is fuller and more open. The treble is cleaner and more defined. The soundstage is considerably larger and more detailed. I’d also like to point out that the Tektons involved here are going to be paired with Rogue M-180’s , and a balanced preamp. However for this I’ve been running a Rogue RP-1 and a modded Akikita 50 wpc ops amp. Prior to the Townsends I was limited to about 75-80 db as not to have clipping. What I noticed is that there was such a huge improvement that it actually overcame the many shortcomings of this amp. The Townsends are truly a night and day difference and I can only imagine the increase I’ll experience with my other gear. In closing I have to say I’m a believer in decoupling Vs spikes. I trusted your imput and I’m a believer having heard the difference. When I set up the new gear I’ll probably decouple my TT and at least my pre and DAC. I’ve received great improvement and advise. I’ll probably step back and try the Auva, Tuffnutts, and Herbis products for my other needs. So many thanks to all , and especially John at Townsend. And you can reach him through the AGON ad in their sales section. Regards , Mike B. 

Congratulations Mike. Glad to hear you had such a great experience as well. They really make a profound difference... hard to believe... but that is one of the reasons it is such a fascinating pursuit.

@buellrider97 Interesting findings. I just can't really fathom the science behind the Townshend (or other footers), but apparently it works.  I'm happy that it worked for you. 

If I spend any money on audio, I'm also considering the level 3 upgrade for my Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL preamp.  It's about the same cost. 

@sls883 , I totally get it , as it went totally against my thinking. However after reading for the past few years over and over again I just had to trust. I’ve done some serious tube rolling and this was bigger. Over the past few years I’ve closely watched members that are open minded and have put extensive research and time exploring isolation, decoupling and room treatments. Hilde45 is a perfect example of someone that has spent hundreds of hours experimenting with various gear and methods. I’ve tried to focus on the people that have modest priced gear as I can’t afford a $100k system. This is why I’m here and I’ve actually made a few friends along the way. Cheers , Mike B. 

Congrats!  Glad they worked out for you.  It's a lot of money for them to not be what you hoped for.

I just placed an order for the Tough Nut cylinders and price is more that reasonable, which is a breath of fresh air when it comes to  HiFi tweaks.  My Isoacoustics Gaia footers sucked too much bass weight to my liking so off to the used market they go.

@trecool99 , Hi I was able to get them delivered new for what I’ve seen them for used. I had a conversation with Tough Nuts and they recommended the cylinders for my Tektons due to size. I’m going to get a set for my Zu Omens after I finish this project and set up a rig with the ZU’s for my wife on the oak hardwood we’re putting in the den. I’m considering making some amp bases with the pointed footers too. I’d appreciate it if you hit me with an update after you try them. When I installed the Townsends the bass became 80% absent and I was very concerned. However the 3” diameter footers settled into the carpet and John their rep made it clear that I could raise them a significant amount totally clearing the carpet. . After that bass came back and improved drastically. It’s fuller , smoother and I lost a boom I was having at a frequency I had not yet measured. I’m only running a 50 wpc amp and I can rattle the stove in the kitchen. I huge part of taking the leap at that price point was the carpet. This was the only device I was comfortable trying without spikes. Regards, Mike. 

OP:  In order to tweak speaker placement on my thick pile carpeting, I put these furniture sliders under my Townshend podiums. They’re a perfect fit under the pods - and slide very easily. Since they don’t affect the SQ, I left them underneath.  (The socks are only for bare floors.)

- - - -

Re: benefit/cost ratio.  If 20 years ago, someone said that over 50% of my future system cost would be for cables and power conditioning, I would have said they were crazy.  Yet, they would have been right. 🤔

@steakster , Thanks , I’ll be picking some up tomorrow when I go for air filters. You’re the 3rd person to recommend these. FWIT I just ordered approx 1000 sqft of glue down oak hardwood flooring. This part of the room is 18’x18’, I’m on the fence about wood Vs new carpeting. If I do go new carpet it’s going to be shorter and greater density, maybe wool Berber type. Thanks again , Mike 

Gaia footers are great, Townshend podiums are better.  Fin

Own both.  Spend more, in this case get more.  Cheers

@buellrider97 It is great that the impact of the change was recognised immediately for the positive Influence and the negative influences.

The challenge now is to relax down and really get to grips with what is in place and what it is able to produce as an End Sound.

Later down the line the following in the list from Item 5 an ascending comes into play to eke out the extras. The Room might need a bit of thought about managing the energies in transit, Produced Sound should only reach ones ears once only, ot should certainly not be heard as a reflected sound within a listening space.

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What have I learnt over the years:

1, A selection of Cabinets tried out are not able to be tamed, the Cabinet Influence is always to be present even though reduced in its effect, when mounted on a particular configuration for a Sub Support. 

2, A selection of Cabinets tried out are tamed, the Cabinet Influence is not present  when mounted on a particular configuration for a Sub Support. In a selection of used Speakers a Weight Placed on the Top of the Cabinet and positioned in different resting points can be the added treatment to tame the Cabinet in use.   

3, A Speaker can really deliver in a way that is extremely competitive to the used ESL when the Support Plinth Configuration, added treatment and Speaker Positioning is given a variety of set ups. Certain Set Ups have enabled the Speaker to excel beyond its offerings when used as a Basic / Typical Set Up.

4, A Cabinet Speaker when either on a Stand or Floor Standing is able to present much improved as a result of introducing a Sub Support produced as a certain configuration.

5, The most difficult part is the positioning of the Speaker within the listening Space. This has to be worked with and records taken of the positioning being used. Using a Decorators 3" Masking Tape as a demarcation on the Floor is ideal, it can also be Pencil / Pen demarcated produce easy to use incremental changes for an orientation. Taking dimensions to local structures from the Cabinet, i.e adjacent Walls, Dimension from Listening Chair to plane of speakers. These combinations of dimensions are the records to be kept. as when the real hot spot is being discovered, small increments can really hone in on the End Sounds Impression able to be made, i.e an instrument or vocal can easily be missing if the final tweaks are not meticulous. 

6, Symmetry of the Toe In is very important, accuracy of a dimension that is not to low mm's, can diminish or accentuate a certain sound, i.e, a Vocal Harmony can have a Tonal Parity or one Voice has the most noticeable presence, backing vocal can be very very far back vocals. 

7, The Cabinet Side Wall being Vertically Plumb is critical and checked periodically to tweak to correction as this can slip? i.e, possibly movement occurs as the load settles. 

8, The Front Baffle is rarely vertical Plumb in a Speaker I set Up, depending on the Speaker Cabinet Dimension, I have had cabinets set 70mm leaning forward. In general the Cabinets are leaning between 10mm - 40mm and that can be the front baffle leaning towards the listener or away from the listener. 

Raising the height of a Speaker and then working with it, has never proved a negative for myself.

As stated in earlier posts, I use a Five Tier Sub Support, which elevated the Speaker. 

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@buellrider97  Thanks for the update. Glad it worked out for you. I'm not sure if I sent you this but you might check out my thread from 2020 on springs under turntables etc.

@noromance , Hi , thanks for the info. In purchasing the Townsends I pretty much went from zero to one hundred overlooking a lot of good stuff, point taken. I have a modded Thorens TD-180 with a Grado cartridge. Your TT is fabulous and you are light years ahead of me and I appreciate the direction. When my kitchen remodel is done and the dust settles I’ll begin the new setup. So I’m looking at a rack/shelf, something like Timber Nation. I’m cost driven , so I might build something and go from there. I have my TT , DAC, Streamer, CD transport, all the usual stuff. My new pre and power amps are about 55bs X 3 pieces , so I’m looking at decoupling 7-8 items. I’ll definitely try what you recommended and I started to read your previous thread. To be cost effective and experiment I will probably try multiple combinations of affordable stuff like repurposed cutting boards and marble or quartz. The springs you mentioned , some pods , maybe absorbing materials like mats. For a few hundred dollars and a few hand tools I should be able to come up with some methods that yield improvement and have fun doing so. Thanks for your guidance, Mike B. 

@pindac , Yes I hear you. I’m not sure what I will do in regards to cabinet resonance at this point. But first I’ll be looking at proper placement/ set up for my speakers. That will be after my remodel when I move to a different wall and have the room to place my speakers 2-4 ft off the back wall to optimize positioning. After some initial setup I’ll get a mic and software to measure the sound in the room and begin some room treatment. After that I’ll probably look hard at my cabinet resonance, but I’m not ready to modify my cabinets at this point in time, but I get it. So thank you for your suggestions as they are certainly applicable to where I’m at. Happy Listening, Mike B. 

I haven’t contributed to this thread as much as I should have. I have followed it and do appreciate the nature and tone of the discussion. 

@buellrider97 

I’m very glad it worked out for you so well !

I started off  using some cheap spring footers from Amazon just to try bring isolation under my Thiel speakers.   As I mentioned, I was impressed enough with the changes that I moved on to ordering the Townsend isolation bars.

I found that with the cheap spring footers underneath my Thiel speakers it changed the tonality a bit more than I liked, and I figured that was likely attributed to the way those footers raised the height of the speakers as well.   I liked the idea that the Townshend bars were designed to not raise the speaker height substantially.  

And they worked as promised that way.  They changed the tonality less than the cheaper footers. 

Though interestingly, it was a different case for what I ended up with under my Joseph audio speakers - the marble platform I built.   In that case, I actually ended up enjoying the speakers being raised substantially - about 6 inches above the ground.   They maintain their tonality really well even raised up that high, but there’s also the bonus of the higher and broader and more realistic sized sound stage.

So different speakers, different solution solutions. 

I just changed out Gaia's for Stack Auva 100's and am very pleased with 2 things that improved:

1) Tone - the tone of voices and instruments jumped up nicely. Maybe it is clarity, but my brain said tone.

2) Bass - it got punchier, less blurry, not sure the exact frequencies, but the Wilsons punch more and seem more engaged.

Great folks to deal with and after researching these they make more sense than Gaias. Gaias isolate, the Auvas absorb.

@prof . Yes , thanks again. I studied your pictures and even saved them to my phone for future reference. You’ve put considerable time and thought into what you’ve done. One thing I noticed with the Townsends is everything improved, but I have some glare/reflection that wasn’t present before. I attribute this to an overall gain in performance from an underpowered amp I’m using interim until I finish our remodel and get out my big stuff. At that time everything will be situated differently and after some speaker placement fine tuning I’ll focus on room acoustics. I have high hard sloped ceilings and I’m getting reflections with the increased gain in my current situation. Cheers, Mike B. 

@bugredmachine , Hi thanks for your input. Most here are way ahead of me, and I’m grateful for all the input. I’m especially appreciative of the friendly atmosphere totally free of judgement. This has been a 180* change in thinking for me and I plan on trying a few of the other products. Regards , Mike B. 

@buellrider97

DELIGHTED to hear this. I'm really impressed by your meticulous testing and by the customer service. Well done!

I have tried the platforms with every speaker I've owned. When the weight was right, I even put bookshelves-on-stands on them (in addition to towers). It makes a difference every time.

@buellrider97 

I saw you mentioned looking at room acoustics. I just completed a two week re-do of my treatments in my TN 2023 room trying to attack my response curve and flatten it. I made some interesting observations and am now making some further adjustments that go against the common recommendations. It is a balancing act between performance and trying to avoid a complete studio look, aesthetics-wise, and sound. Most folks would probably listen to my room and say it sounds great, and it does, but I want the response to be flatter because as an engineer I can't seem to put my pencil down. Room modes are very cumbersome to say the least.

Safe biking!

Another vote for Isoacoustics Gaia’s for under your speakers.  I love the difference they made with mine.

I noticed the same attributes bigredmachine noticed when I switched from Gaias to AUVA 100 some time ago; bass became much tighter and impactful and instruments were cleaner and more focused within the soundstage...

Wig

@buellrider97, congratulations on the Townshends. Something that may interest you are the very affordable Vibrapods at about $30 a set/4  I first tried some under my Oppo and the results surprised me which lead me to buying a Townshend Platform to replace the pods which improved the sound further.

These are available in sizes from 1 - 5 to match the weight of the component. I now have No. 1s under my line stage and No. 2s under my Wadia, actually preferring them to Isoacoustics Oreas.

@bugredmachine, I sometimes resort to using a pair of closed-back headphones to eliminate the rooms acoustic signature as a sanity check. I find it a great help.

@lemonhaze , Hi , thanks for the compliment. I have the Pangea Sorbothane  feet under my line stage. They have pretty much glued themselves to the Rogue RP-1 feet and the shelf it’s on. I’ll have to pry it apart when I change up my rig. FWIT I damaged my raw birch Klipsh Heresys with Blue Dots that were provided by Sound Anchor when I purchased custom sized stands from them. I’ve accumulated quite a pile of gear to assemble. I’m sitting here waiting on a pending kitchen , den remodel which will result in a massive dust cloud throughout the house. When the dust clears I will be getting out the Rogue Hera Pre, the Rogue M-180’s. I plan on putting the amps ( 55lbs ea ) on platforms near my speakers. I’ll use a two shelf rack for the Hera pre, my Thorens TT, and my Yiggy DAC. I currently have an Innuos Pulse mini with a LPS, a Musical Fidelity CD transport , an Oppo 105, and a Richard Gray 600 filter. When all of this occurs I will start experimenting with various items for components starting with the less expensive items suggested like springs and pucks. My TT has a custom Brazilian Rosewood plinth with Maple Shade brass footers. I’m thinking an additional platform with vibration footers. I’m running into funding issues and still need balanced cables. Between the 3 Rogue pieces I’ll have 22 tubes and need dampers for them also. During all of that I need to get a dedicated Ethernet line to my streamer as I’m using a powerline adapter through the same lines powering the system. My next big purchase will be a nicer steamer. It’s always something. 😆 BTW have you done any mods to your Oppo ? I only bought it to watch  my concert DVD’s and it’s been in the closet for the last 2 years. Regards, Mike B. 

Rogue Hera, awesome preamp. About 20 years ago I had one on loan for 2 weeks and loved it. My ignorance of tube microphonics at the time dissuaded me from keeping it as I was heating the tinkling of the tubes at idle and thought it was a defect.  It was so delicate and musical at the same time. You're lucky to have it @buellrider97 

@bugredmachine , Thanks , its the Hera II, I bought it from the original owner for $2k. It was sent to Rogue for a full service and a retube with Sovtek’s then stored . The M-180’s were free from the same friend. One had an issue and needed repair. So I sent them to Rogue and decided on the full Dark upgrade and full retube. I have a stash of nos tubes for them. Rogue supply’s Psvane KT -88’s over Tung Sol KT-120’s due to quality issues. I did a 100 hr break in for the gear and then boxed it up. After the dust clears I’ll set it up. I wanted some Tannoy’s but I’m not that well funded. I bought the Tektons as a budget compromise and am Very surprised at how much I like them. I considered the MoFi 888’s too, I wanted a FUN SPEAKER over an exacting audiophile speaker. My goal for this whole thing is to have a big full off axis wall of sound. I have a Had Inspire and some ZU’s for that small late night experience. My wife will inherit that for her own system. Once I offered to set her up with her own rig to steam het stuff she was all in. I’ve always tried to get her interested in my system with moderate results. I guess it’s like her having her own car. I should have realized this long ago. Cheers , Mike. 

I’ve spent the last 25+ years evaluating various isolation/decoupling approaches. I’m a big Townshend user and proponent. Have discovered some of the latest more scientific approaches in a plyable material designed well, can be superior to expensive ball/n" cup devices. HRS for example. I have a lot of interest in Stack Audio.

@slaw Having had my first Venture into improving the local environment for the Cartridge Stylus to function in back in the 90's, by having a Platter Bearing redesigned as a Build, I was now on the road to learning about Isolation through Separation.

This Journey headed into Materials and especially materials that have a positive impact on reducing Amplitude (reduction in migration of energies through materials).

Today I have a self produced Supporting System built up from a multiple of materials as Tiers for my Audio System, especially for the Analogue.

The Power Amp's have an alternative Multi Tier assembly of materials, which is very very weighty.

The Digital Source has been sufficiently looked after on a Bespoke Built Wall Shelf, which again has a decoupling from the Wall and has Multi Tier Supports.

Cabinet Speakers also have their own Multi Tier Assembly to support them.

These assemblies in use at the present have evolved over the years, where different materials and separators are adopted, along with different configurations for selected materials>separators. The set up in use is very very effective from a Subjective Evaluation, the tidiness of the End Sound is very attractive.

Occasionally I return a Source to a simple Sturdy Table Support as a retro set up and am shocked at the Crud that is captured within the End Sound.

Today my main interest as Material is Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board, I am swapping out Materials once valued and am getting benefits worthwhile  maintaining. 

@buellrider97, It seems you're having way too much fun. I have the Oppo 103 without mods other than the Townshend platform, better power cable and interconnects which it responds well to.

With the large number of tubes you have perhaps a simple DIY solution may help. I made some like Herbie's Tube Dampers using spring steel with cassette tape deck pinch rollers which is what I think he used with his early production units. I bought a packet of them online many years ago for peanuts and they help clean up by lowering the noise floor. A friend with a Manley Labs Stingray which uses 12 x 9-pin tubes improved nicely.

@pindac  Enjoyed reading your post above. I appreciate your experience and passion in audio pursuits.

This has been a great thread and I have really appreciated the diversity of thoughts and experiences shared here. @buellrider97 Thank you for sharing your journey so far.

This got me down a bit of a DIY footer project for my Dynaudio speakers that I think I am close to finishing up as a home brew prototype at least. Haven’t installed them yet to listen, but have really enjoyed the back and forth on this thread as inspiration. 

@cbrez , Thank you for your kind words, I give all the credit to the contributors on this thread. For me it’s been learning to think outside the box and “ Contempt prior to Investigation.” You have a nice system. Check out Hilde45 on this thread. He has/had similar gear to you. I’m totally grateful for the help I’ve received. My short term plan is to get my new gear up and running. During the process I’ll need a new equipment rack and isolation for 6-7 items. I’m going to get a few inexpensive items like springs , and isolation pucks and build a few platforms and just experiment. On the pricier side I’m considering Auva and Tough Nutt products. Happy Listening, Mike B. 

I use Symposium Svelte under my speakers without roller blocks, and also under the crossover board. I think it’s the best tweak I ever tried, actually works great. This is on concrete basement floor.

@travbrow , Hi thanks for your input. I was not even aware of this brand.  I will spent some time reading up on their products. Happy Listening, Mike B. 

I have stated the following in this Thread

" I recently put a Link up to Barry Diament who is the Godfather of releasing the designs for some very common items seen today with large price tickets, but Barry's designs can be produced for very low Dollars.

Also I have guided others within other Forums to learn the methods that Barry has shared.

As Isolation devices are witnessed, it will soon be evident that Barry Diament ideas is the fundamental  if the designs that are to be seen.

Here is the easy/awkward side of the equation, is a $2 Barry Diament design being very effective at dissipating Amplitude become a bettered design when equivalent / Similar designs costing $100 - $300 are adopted for the same role? Add to the Latter designs an additional platform that does magic for Amplitude Dissipation at similar monies and 'Voila' somebody is doing better than Barry did with his freely shared info.

Those with a Interest in Isolation / Separation who have resided for many years in the UK, when asked about the Townsend Products, will speedily inform, that with no Barry Diament Info freely shared, there would be no Townsend Products as known today. Townsend have evolved Yes, but revenues created from sales of earliest designs, based on the BD's design, funded the move onto other designs. 

Townsend have lots of happy customers, these customers would do no harm if they raise a glass to Barry Diament and his free shared wisdom.  

@pindac , Once again thank you for your comments. This came at the perfect time as I’m gathering items for my new setup. Of high importance is a new rack for my gear. I did some online searching and came across the ENJOYYOURSHELF article. My intent is to commission one of my woodworking friends to build one that looks similar to Timber Nation products, but on a beer budget. I will certainly study his designs and incorporate them into my equipment shelf. Regards , Mike B. 

@buellrider97 This Thread is a now a reference to how not to overly Spend on Separation and Isolation for Speakers, there is enough info on here to reassure a visitor they can achieve a great deal with a well thought out Support produced as a DIY Design through to using Products purposely produced for such a role as reducing Migrating Amplitude having an impact on a Audio Device.

I will state once more I own AT 616 Pneumatic Footers and these are extremely effective at their role where ever used. When the 616 is under a Cabinet Speaker they are immediately discernible for the Improvement added. The 616 footers as a result of being loaned, have been instrumental in others being swung to discover products that offer a similar impact on End Sound being heard.

Where the AT 616 fail is that they can't improve on a DIY Multi Tier Sub Support used with a Cabinet Speaker, when used in conjunction with a Multi Tier Support, they add little if any betterment, but do add a variant to the End Sound, a different strength of seasoning is a good fit for the change made.

I am happy that Barry Diament is alluring to you, it is not the wrong place to acquire Info. It is prudent to avoid the common analogy thinking, that if its not costing an Increased  Mortgage, it is a failure.

I can add to this Thread info for Equipment Racks, if this Thread is wanted to be used or a New Thread is to be produced, I will contribute when I see what is decided.      

@pindac Sorry if this has already been stated,.. wondering if the Enjoyyourshelf method has been compared with the Townshend?  That would be an interesting experiment for those that already have the Townshend platforms for cheap.  But I can understand potential backlash from disclosing this information.  ;-)

@ OP "heavy shag carpet and padding over a cement slab floor"

why bother? additional pads help to reduce motion to the floor, which is not possible to shake in this case 

@trecool99 How can there be a Back Lash, when Companies are taking on the ideas of enthusiasts.

Companies in general adds a little bling and put into a Sales Spiel the great results that have been attained.

AT 616 - SolidTech - Gaia - Townsends all offer much of s Muchness, but Home Designs will produce the same much of a Muchness.

For other Air Suspension Options there is the Furniture Lifting Air Bags referred to in other Posts in the Thread, these are ideal substitutes for an Inner Tube, and might have been the Air Reservoir used in older design if the Air Bags were easy to acquire.

The intention is to Capture and dissipate Amplitude, and more that one material is usually the better option, I refer to it as Multi Tiers.

Try any device above used in conjunction with a Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board and there will be betterment added to the Amplitude Management do the same for Two Tiers and again something further as a betterment will be added.

It is really down to the assemblers knowledge of materials that are able to be used, and footer/separator designs that are to work best in a very unique environment.

There is not a Ubiquitous Answer on how a End Sound is able to be tidied up to the point it is quite impressive. Each Audio System Owner will also have their own preference for what is perceived as a Tidied Up End Sound.

Each listening space and the Listener Occupying it, offers a own unique Pattern for the Migration of Ambient Energies Amplitude and Unique End Result for what is considered a improved space due to managing energy designs adopted.