Footers under new speakers

@george_r , Hi thank you , your gear looks great. I pulled the trigger on the Townsend Podiums and have had them in play for about a month with great results. I exchanged a couple emails with Stack and received some good advice. I purchased a SmoothLan last week. I’m in the process of improving my WiFi signal with a new router and range extender and will add the SmoothLan. I like their spikes and will probably audition the 70’s with my other gear. I’ll be setting up a second system for my wife in the den on a glue down oak laminate floor. I plan on auditioning a few of their items. Although the Townsends are serving me well , they are pricy. I’ll be experimenting with a few home built ideas and just enjoy experimenting. You have nice gear and I appreciate your helpfulness. Respectfully, Mike B. 

@pindac , Thank you for your recent post. The links are very helpful and definitely give me some ideas. I’m on hold for the next two months due to my house renovations. After that I can break out my gear and get going. I’m planning on building a component rack and will incorporate some of your suggestions. Thank you , Mike B. 

I posted before about StackAudio Auva 70 feet I use on wood floors for ease of moving due to thin felt on the bottom. Spikes are included in three sizes, select your preference, and can be added for carpet. I haven’t been able to find the forum guidelines on posting pictures but am testing something that a search showed. (That was easy if you know how it works on this forum.)

The Link showing the Speaker Build shows a method selected as a Sub Support to suspend the Speaker, using a Vibration Control Footer and a Bridging Bar to connect the VC Footers.

A little bot of extra though can really tidy these up aesthetically if one needs to have bling with their equipment.

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/my-troels-gravesen-the-loudspeaker-3-build.303400/

The Link is showing the designs available from the Producer of the VC Footers seen in use.

https://www.christiegrey.com/industrial/enclosed-spring-mountings/

My suggestion is that if such a methodology is selected, the following can be considered:

1, Look to see if the devices can be attached directly to the Speaker Base, an adapter thread used in place of the bolt on the top of VC Part, can be looked into to see if a Thread Size can be put in place to match a threaded insert found in the base of a Speaker.

2, A Sub Plinth could have 3 x VC Footers attached.

3, If Bridging Bars are wanted to be selected, using metal only is suggested to be avoided. A Composite of materials can be used, that includes a metal.

4, A material such as a Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board can also be used for the Sub Plinth suggested in '2' or as the Bridging Bar. 

MDF is not the material being suggested.

MDF has a very poor measuring Damping / Dissipation of 0.017. 

0.017 is a value that has a very very little Intrinsic Property to prevent Transferred Amplitude from migrating through the material.

Brands to think about are Panzerholz and Permali.

Look at a Taiko DAIZA Sub Plinth, but to not concern oneself with the rebate pattern that is used in their base of the Board.

@joeycastillo , Hi thanks for the additional info. I looked at the Orea’s also and see your point. My pre amp has 8 signal tubes and I definitely want to isolate it with large amps and pending subs. I’m planning on being able to shake the house. I plan on putting a lot of effort into isolating my pre and my TT. Probably a lesser cost factor on my power amps. My pre is Rogue Hera II, it’s large with a separate power supply that is usually run stacked. I’m looking at building my rack and considering how to set the Hera. Due to size and heat it will probably be on the top shelf near my TT. I can put it on a platform on top of the shelf. Or I can isolate by something underneath the power supply and adding something between the power supply and the pre above. Then I can go full bore and add 8 tube dampers also. So many choices and it gets expensive.  Gotta love First World Problems , makes me grateful for what I have. Anyway, thanks for your help , Mike B. 

@pindac , Hi , point taken in regards to the resin impregnated MDF. In looking on line I’m not sure what to look for. A specific link or additional info would be appreciated. Here in California I see a couple MDF’s and a green water board. I’m just not sure what I’m looking for. Thanks, Mike B. 

@buellrider97 

Great choice on the Townsend Podiums. 

Regarding the platforms, your idea of using a butcher block and spiking it will work. I did that on a Turntable setup to isolate the Turntable from external vibration, and I actually heard less rumbling. Just make are you have a Thick enough Butcher block (say 2 inches or more is possible). Then add a set of Iso Pucks for good measure

I would suggest using Gaia Oreas instead of the Isopucks for the Pre-amp. it's tuned for more narrower weight range that your Preamp will fit in. I use the Oreas for my preamp and it help in a cleaner midrange IMO. 

Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board is the material to investigate in place of any other Board Materials to support a device.

A Board of the dimension required to support a Monoblock Amp will be similar in cost to Butcher Block of a similar dimension. 

Consider this same material for when designing the shelving to be used on the Racks to be produced. Alternatively the Rack design can be using more common board materials as a Shelve. A Sub Plinth Board to be used with a Barry Diament Design can be a Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board.

A DIY Rack can have increased dimensions between shelves and a BD design can sit on the Racks Shelves, this should open up the options to mimic some of the Companies supplying Audio Racks designs, as has already been made known as being investigated.

@joeycastillo , Hi , thanks for your input. You have a really nice system and I like your room. I was just looking at the IsoPucks. I went with the Townsend Podiums and at $1600 delivered am pleased with the improvement Vs cost. But I’m now looking at building a rack and a pair of platforms for my 55lb mono blocs. I was thinking of a butcher block with spikes due to carpet, with the IsoPucks between the amps and the butcher blocks. Also IsoPucks under my 42 lb Hera II pre on the rack. Any additional input is welcomed and appreciated. Regards, Mike B. 

OP

have your source out the ISO puck 76? 

it can carry up to 40 lbs. each. much cheaper than the GAIA

and just add a 2-inch-thick hardwood or Marble that will stick on the wooden floor. i heard a system like these and the imaging and bass was correct.

YMMV

@trecool99 , Thanks , those are new to me and pretty interesting to look at. They review well I’d be interested in trying them although they are fairly expensive. I’m in the process of selecting a shelf design to be built. However I’m planning on using separate amp stands for my mono blocs, at 55 lbs and 7 tubes Ea I’m thinking on the floor close to my speakers. I plan on some wood platforms probably spiked due to carpet. Then I’ll put something between the platform and the amp. I like what you sent me as a direct replacement for the existing feet. I plan on doing some more research and also find an American Distributor for pricing.  Thanks , Mike B. 

@unreceivedogma . Mounted to a brick wall makes perfect sense. Unfortunately for me I have the standard mild climate tract house. Cement slab , 2x4 stud walls with Sheetrock inside and stucco outside. Cheers , Mike B. 

Here is another to add to the list.  Comprised of 35 individual parts.  

https://www.arya-audio.com/revopod

If only heavy footfall was the detriment of the stylus, there are a range of Frequencies that have been worked on to find solutions to cancel them in their transit.   

I think I saw used Townsend seismic podium at TMRaudio.com $799 if I am correct. Check them out.

A nice feature Townshend Podiums is their low profile. IMO, Adding subdudes then footers really throws off how your speakers integrate with the listening position.

”Get a couple of "Subdude" platforms and then spike or use whatever between the speaker and the Subdude. Cheap and effective.”

I tried the subdude platforms as well, under my Thiel

Speakers.  They barely did nothing at all for the sound in my case, And if anything made it worse.  So I’m sure it’s quite Case dependent. 

@trecool99 

duh. I wouldn’t be doing it if it didn’t work. 🙄

While it does help that the wall is made of brick, it works with 2x4 studs as well. 

I used to live in a 2,000 sq ft loft. We threw dance parties twice a year. Up to 120 people jumping up and down on - and falling onto, depending on the degree of inebriation - a floor supported with wood joists. The turntable did. Not. Move. 

I visualise a Cabinet Bolted to a Wall, being either a Cabinet functioning like a Shelf or a Cabinet is seated on the Floor and fastened to the wall the improve rigidity of the support structure.

Both Methods offer a means to act as a Rigid Support for a TT, and as a result of being fastened in place, will be less reactive to Migrating Amplitude from Ambient Energies within the listening space.

Rigidity and also being a Decoupled Support Structure from the local building structure is the next consideration.

Reducing through Decoupling the Migrating Amplitude to enter the support structure, does show as a beneficial methodology where the End Sound being assessed is evaluated. 

The additional steps are not costly, and are worthwhile, even if undoing a set up for a short period is inconvenience.  

Get a couple of "Subdude" platforms and then spike or use whatever between the speaker and the Subdude. Cheap and effective.

@unreceivedogma aren't your walls attached to the floor?  Structure borne vibration can also be a thing don't you think?

@buellrider97 

I have the turntable sitting on a cabinet that is bolted to the wall. So, no floor vibes  

The table plinth or chassis or whatever-you-call-it sits on some sort of gelled pucks that sit on the base. 

@unreceivedogma , Hi thanks for you’re recommendation. I had a single sub that I removed from my system. However when I change room location and do my new setup I’m planning on running duel subs that are fairly large. I like the footers you have and am also considering Herbies. As much as I like the Townsend’s I can’t afford to buy more of them. I might try one under my TT. What to you prefer for your turntable ? My stuff is pretty modest by comparison so I’m really cost driven. Respectfully, Mike B. 

@fthompson251 , So I went over and rocked my speaker by hand and made a reference point above the front corner with my finger. The speaker can swing side to side almost an inch each way. Then it settles right back to level. I have two 60 lb Standard poodles and one likes to lay by the left speaker. The other day she bumped it lying down and had her rear haunch on the pod itself. The speaker moved and settled right back. I went over without disturbing the dog and put my level on the speaker and it was plumb. I think what’s most amazing is how strong the bass is without being planted to the floor. Regards , Mike B. 

I use 

https://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/isolation_feet.html

on a hardwood floor. Under both the main towers as well as the sub. 

@buellrider97  To be clear the wiggle I have with the speakers mounted on the ViaBlue’s is not a bad or "rickety" wiggle, it’s just very clear they are decoupled from my concrete floor is all. They are still very secure. I was lucky and got my set before they doubled the price. I’ve had them a few years now. All my equipment has some sort of decoupling under them.  Oh and thank you for the system complement. 

@fthompson251 , Wow ! Your system is amazing and way above my level. I was not aware of the Viablue products so thank you. The “ Wiggle Factor “ is totally out of my comfort zone too. My speakers are 54” tall and 115 lbs , and Un spiked on my carpet had about the same wiggle factor. However with the Townsends I’ve leveled them with a bubble level and now settled, they come back to zero when I manually wiggle them. I’m still not clear on the Townsends if they hang or push within the pods. Out of the comments I’ve received from people that have actually used them the vast majority are very pleased. I have cheap speakers compared to most and I had a huge improvement. There’s a thread that just started by a Magico owner and I would imagine that with a speaker that well engendered and at that price point would experience a lesser improvement. All I can say is , I was skeptical until I took the plunge and tried them. FWIW the price is received  from Townsend was comparable to Gaia and Auva with almost all that tried those against Townsend preferring Townsend. I’m not going to turn into a Fan Boy and preach the You Must Have mantra. By the same respect I dislike blanket statements like “ Power cords do not make an improvement “. I do believe that everything is system dependent and we can generalize but never be absolute. So thank you for sharing and if I had your gear my neighbors would certainly hear it. Cheers , Mike B. 

I am currently using ViaBlue footers under my 140lb Legacy Focus XD's. I left the shallow spikes on them and those settle into the footers. You can push the speakers and they wiggle similar as to how the Townsend podiums do. I have not seen anywhere in this thread anyone using these. I don't know how they compare to the others, but my speakers have outstanding bass definition. Image well and seem to have a well defined soundstage. FWIW.

The following is extracted from the recent Magico - Townsend Thread.

 " I actually started my most recent investigation into vibration by installing and seismograph in my home (on the same slab of concrete as are my speakers) and the vibrations are very surprising and consistent with changes in sound quality at night and on weekends. Also, I can see the effects vibrations transmitted to the speakers and the dampening of the Townshend podiums. I can hear the very obvious improvement. So, at least for me not Kool Aid. "

Since investigating Seismic Activity, when the World Stopped during COVID Lock Down, this was the period when Seismic Recording were at their all time low, Mother Earth and the Flora / Fauna was the main influence, not Human Activities.

A once in a life time optimisation for those concerned about Ambient Energies and Amplitude being Transferred through structures and then into Supporting Equipment used for propping Audio Systems.

@westcoastaudiophile , Hi not sure I understand your question/comment. Why bother with the podiums ? FWIT I previously had JBL near fields on Sound Anchor spiked stands. They stood 4 1/2 ‘ and a combined weight of 100 lbs, they were spiked. I then had Zu Omens Spiked with great results. I thought there might be more with the ZU’s so I used 4” walnut slabs spiked to floor with the ZU’s on top various ways and it was a total flop. After some talk with Sean Casey at Zu he concluded that the back pressure sitting just above the carpet played well with the speaker / tube amp interaction . So this thread is with Tekton DI’s and carpet for now. I’ve read for considerable time about improvements with uncoupling and wanted to try. I tried the Tektons unspiked on the carpet , then spiked, then spiked with 10lb dumbbells on top to get rid of the cabinet resonance that occurred when I added the spikes. Now I have the Townsends and they took 1 day to settle. The SQ improvement is absolutely astounding. And I don’t have bias confirmation with my play things. I recently let go of my Harley’s and my snow skis and my road bike due to age. I reached my peak with my firearms hobby and cut the herd to about 30, with my class III stuff having to reside in a friendly state. I’m a definite Mid Fi guy and way out of my league here. As soon as I get my wife her new kitchen I can play stereo and dedicate some time and money to learn and enjoy. I won’t be able to try my recently acquired and upgraded 180 wpc tube amps until after this damn kitchen remodel. The flooring guy was here today and I asked about wool Berber to replace my existing shag rug , I had sticker shock. I might be on wood here too ! Please excuse me if I come across too blunt , I’m smiling. Regards, Mike B. 
 

@trecool99 Its 30+ Celsius in the UK, the Control Centre is Struggling in the Furnace.

@pindac I hear ya.  It was meant in jest.  The Townshend are beautiful and aesthetically designed to justify their asking price.

@trecool99 How can there be a Back Lash, when Companies are taking on the ideas of enthusiasts.

Companies in general adds a little bling and put into a Sales Spiel the great results that have been attained.

AT 616 - SolidTech - Gaia - Townsends all offer much of s Muchness, but Home Designs will produce the same much of a Muchness.

For other Air Suspension Options there is the Furniture Lifting Air Bags referred to in other Posts in the Thread, these are ideal substitutes for an Inner Tube, and might have been the Air Reservoir used in older design if the Air Bags were easy to acquire.

The intention is to Capture and dissipate Amplitude, and more that one material is usually the better option, I refer to it as Multi Tiers.

Try any device above used in conjunction with a Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board and there will be betterment added to the Amplitude Management do the same for Two Tiers and again something further as a betterment will be added.

It is really down to the assemblers knowledge of materials that are able to be used, and footer/separator designs that are to work best in a very unique environment.

There is not a Ubiquitous Answer on how a End Sound is able to be tidied up to the point it is quite impressive. Each Audio System Owner will also have their own preference for what is perceived as a Tidied Up End Sound.

Each listening space and the Listener Occupying it, offers a own unique Pattern for the Migration of Ambient Energies Amplitude and Unique End Result for what is considered a improved space due to managing energy designs adopted.      

@ OP "heavy shag carpet and padding over a cement slab floor"

why bother? additional pads help to reduce motion to the floor, which is not possible to shake in this case 

@pindac Sorry if this has already been stated,.. wondering if the Enjoyyourshelf method has been compared with the Townshend?  That would be an interesting experiment for those that already have the Townshend platforms for cheap.  But I can understand potential backlash from disclosing this information.  ;-)

@buellrider97 This Thread is a now a reference to how not to overly Spend on Separation and Isolation for Speakers, there is enough info on here to reassure a visitor they can achieve a great deal with a well thought out Support produced as a DIY Design through to using Products purposely produced for such a role as reducing Migrating Amplitude having an impact on a Audio Device.

I will state once more I own AT 616 Pneumatic Footers and these are extremely effective at their role where ever used. When the 616 is under a Cabinet Speaker they are immediately discernible for the Improvement added. The 616 footers as a result of being loaned, have been instrumental in others being swung to discover products that offer a similar impact on End Sound being heard.

Where the AT 616 fail is that they can't improve on a DIY Multi Tier Sub Support used with a Cabinet Speaker, when used in conjunction with a Multi Tier Support, they add little if any betterment, but do add a variant to the End Sound, a different strength of seasoning is a good fit for the change made.

I am happy that Barry Diament is alluring to you, it is not the wrong place to acquire Info. It is prudent to avoid the common analogy thinking, that if its not costing an Increased  Mortgage, it is a failure.

I can add to this Thread info for Equipment Racks, if this Thread is wanted to be used or a New Thread is to be produced, I will contribute when I see what is decided.      

@pindac , Once again thank you for your comments. This came at the perfect time as I’m gathering items for my new setup. Of high importance is a new rack for my gear. I did some online searching and came across the ENJOYYOURSHELF article. My intent is to commission one of my woodworking friends to build one that looks similar to Timber Nation products, but on a beer budget. I will certainly study his designs and incorporate them into my equipment shelf. Regards , Mike B. 

I have stated the following in this Thread

" I recently put a Link up to Barry Diament who is the Godfather of releasing the designs for some very common items seen today with large price tickets, but Barry's designs can be produced for very low Dollars.

Also I have guided others within other Forums to learn the methods that Barry has shared.

As Isolation devices are witnessed, it will soon be evident that Barry Diament ideas is the fundamental  if the designs that are to be seen.

Here is the easy/awkward side of the equation, is a $2 Barry Diament design being very effective at dissipating Amplitude become a bettered design when equivalent / Similar designs costing $100 - $300 are adopted for the same role? Add to the Latter designs an additional platform that does magic for Amplitude Dissipation at similar monies and 'Voila' somebody is doing better than Barry did with his freely shared info.

Those with a Interest in Isolation / Separation who have resided for many years in the UK, when asked about the Townsend Products, will speedily inform, that with no Barry Diament Info freely shared, there would be no Townsend Products as known today. Townsend have evolved Yes, but revenues created from sales of earliest designs, based on the BD's design, funded the move onto other designs. 

Townsend have lots of happy customers, these customers would do no harm if they raise a glass to Barry Diament and his free shared wisdom.  

@travbrow , Hi thanks for your input. I was not even aware of this brand.  I will spent some time reading up on their products. Happy Listening, Mike B. 

I use Symposium Svelte under my speakers without roller blocks, and also under the crossover board. I think it’s the best tweak I ever tried, actually works great. This is on concrete basement floor.

@cbrez , Thank you for your kind words, I give all the credit to the contributors on this thread. For me it’s been learning to think outside the box and “ Contempt prior to Investigation.” You have a nice system. Check out Hilde45 on this thread. He has/had similar gear to you. I’m totally grateful for the help I’ve received. My short term plan is to get my new gear up and running. During the process I’ll need a new equipment rack and isolation for 6-7 items. I’m going to get a few inexpensive items like springs , and isolation pucks and build a few platforms and just experiment. On the pricier side I’m considering Auva and Tough Nutt products. Happy Listening, Mike B. 

This has been a great thread and I have really appreciated the diversity of thoughts and experiences shared here. @buellrider97 Thank you for sharing your journey so far.

This got me down a bit of a DIY footer project for my Dynaudio speakers that I think I am close to finishing up as a home brew prototype at least. Haven’t installed them yet to listen, but have really enjoyed the back and forth on this thread as inspiration. 

@pindac  Enjoyed reading your post above. I appreciate your experience and passion in audio pursuits.

@buellrider97, It seems you're having way too much fun. I have the Oppo 103 without mods other than the Townshend platform, better power cable and interconnects which it responds well to.

With the large number of tubes you have perhaps a simple DIY solution may help. I made some like Herbie's Tube Dampers using spring steel with cassette tape deck pinch rollers which is what I think he used with his early production units. I bought a packet of them online many years ago for peanuts and they help clean up by lowering the noise floor. A friend with a Manley Labs Stingray which uses 12 x 9-pin tubes improved nicely.

@slaw Having had my first Venture into improving the local environment for the Cartridge Stylus to function in back in the 90's, by having a Platter Bearing redesigned as a Build, I was now on the road to learning about Isolation through Separation.

This Journey headed into Materials and especially materials that have a positive impact on reducing Amplitude (reduction in migration of energies through materials).

Today I have a self produced Supporting System built up from a multiple of materials as Tiers for my Audio System, especially for the Analogue.

The Power Amp's have an alternative Multi Tier assembly of materials, which is very very weighty.

The Digital Source has been sufficiently looked after on a Bespoke Built Wall Shelf, which again has a decoupling from the Wall and has Multi Tier Supports.

Cabinet Speakers also have their own Multi Tier Assembly to support them.

These assemblies in use at the present have evolved over the years, where different materials and separators are adopted, along with different configurations for selected materials>separators. The set up in use is very very effective from a Subjective Evaluation, the tidiness of the End Sound is very attractive.

Occasionally I return a Source to a simple Sturdy Table Support as a retro set up and am shocked at the Crud that is captured within the End Sound.

Today my main interest as Material is Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board, I am swapping out Materials once valued and am getting benefits worthwhile  maintaining. 

I’ve spent the last 25+ years evaluating various isolation/decoupling approaches. I’m a big Townshend user and proponent. Have discovered some of the latest more scientific approaches in a plyable material designed well, can be superior to expensive ball/n" cup devices. HRS for example. I have a lot of interest in Stack Audio.

@bugredmachine , Thanks , its the Hera II, I bought it from the original owner for $2k. It was sent to Rogue for a full service and a retube with Sovtek’s then stored . The M-180’s were free from the same friend. One had an issue and needed repair. So I sent them to Rogue and decided on the full Dark upgrade and full retube. I have a stash of nos tubes for them. Rogue supply’s Psvane KT -88’s over Tung Sol KT-120’s due to quality issues. I did a 100 hr break in for the gear and then boxed it up. After the dust clears I’ll set it up. I wanted some Tannoy’s but I’m not that well funded. I bought the Tektons as a budget compromise and am Very surprised at how much I like them. I considered the MoFi 888’s too, I wanted a FUN SPEAKER over an exacting audiophile speaker. My goal for this whole thing is to have a big full off axis wall of sound. I have a Had Inspire and some ZU’s for that small late night experience. My wife will inherit that for her own system. Once I offered to set her up with her own rig to steam het stuff she was all in. I’ve always tried to get her interested in my system with moderate results. I guess it’s like her having her own car. I should have realized this long ago. Cheers , Mike. 

Rogue Hera, awesome preamp. About 20 years ago I had one on loan for 2 weeks and loved it. My ignorance of tube microphonics at the time dissuaded me from keeping it as I was heating the tinkling of the tubes at idle and thought it was a defect.  It was so delicate and musical at the same time. You're lucky to have it @buellrider97 

@lemonhaze , Hi , thanks for the compliment. I have the Pangea Sorbothane  feet under my line stage. They have pretty much glued themselves to the Rogue RP-1 feet and the shelf it’s on. I’ll have to pry it apart when I change up my rig. FWIT I damaged my raw birch Klipsh Heresys with Blue Dots that were provided by Sound Anchor when I purchased custom sized stands from them. I’ve accumulated quite a pile of gear to assemble. I’m sitting here waiting on a pending kitchen , den remodel which will result in a massive dust cloud throughout the house. When the dust clears I will be getting out the Rogue Hera Pre, the Rogue M-180’s. I plan on putting the amps ( 55lbs ea ) on platforms near my speakers. I’ll use a two shelf rack for the Hera pre, my Thorens TT, and my Yiggy DAC. I currently have an Innuos Pulse mini with a LPS, a Musical Fidelity CD transport , an Oppo 105, and a Richard Gray 600 filter. When all of this occurs I will start experimenting with various items for components starting with the less expensive items suggested like springs and pucks. My TT has a custom Brazilian Rosewood plinth with Maple Shade brass footers. I’m thinking an additional platform with vibration footers. I’m running into funding issues and still need balanced cables. Between the 3 Rogue pieces I’ll have 22 tubes and need dampers for them also. During all of that I need to get a dedicated Ethernet line to my streamer as I’m using a powerline adapter through the same lines powering the system. My next big purchase will be a nicer steamer. It’s always something. 😆 BTW have you done any mods to your Oppo ? I only bought it to watch  my concert DVD’s and it’s been in the closet for the last 2 years. Regards, Mike B.