Footers under new speakers

I think when you get all the inputs the likely consensus will be: Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Podium for Speakers. By far they are the most highly regarded speaker stands. While I do not have them I know many people that do, and I don't think I have ever heard anyone ever say anything but extraordinary praise. Hmmm, I guess I need to put them on my list. Don't actually know why I don't have them. 

Just installed my Auva 100's on my Legacy Focus Se today. I also have the Smoothlan Regenerator. Great company.

+1 on the Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Podium for Speakers.  I have them and can verify what is published on their performance and improvement to all SQ attributes is true.   Not inexpensive but worth the spend.  

Put the spikes on and put a penny under each one. It should work well enough to get by while you're looking into different options. It will also serve as a reference.when you try new feet/spikes.

Use the spike that came with the speakers and go to IKEA or Any stores that carry bamboo chopping board put it under the speakers. My ps 12 tekton are happy.Teajay used them for his ps12 when we visited Him.

Although the Iso Accoustic Gaia's are expensive,  they are worth it imo. I put a set under my Legacy Audio Signature SE's and the improvement was significant.  They are sitting on a hardwood floor over a framed floor on engineered wood joists.  So I was getting quite a lot of vibration and standing waves, They are a bit pricey,  but very effective on all types of floor construction.  And remember if you ever upgrade your speakers you can switch them to the new ones,  so it's a long term investment. 

I use Townshend Podiums under my floor standers. Love them.

Read lots of good things on Stack Audio as well.

+100 on the Townshend platforms. I have a 30 year audiophile buddy who had the Gaia footers and he did a bunch of A/B with the Townshends and they won the day. I have used the podiums with both floorstanders and bookshelves – under the stands. There is really no doubt that these do a lot for the imaging clarity and soundstage width and depth. Easy company to work with, communication wise.

Isoacoustic GAIA are my choice, but in your situation frankly I don't think they are your best option.  Of the suggestions made so far I recommend you carefully consider the link provided by ditusa.

Spikes through the carpet/pad making contact with the slab.

DeKay

I know there is a fundamental debate between using traditional spikes and advanced isolation platforms like Townshend Podiums. While spikes have long been a common solution, aiming to "couple" the speaker rigidly to the floor, the podiums offer a fundamentally different and I think superior, approach – decoupling.

Why is it superior?

Consider that traditional spikes concentrate the speaker's weight onto small points so that vibrations are drained into the floor, which then acts as an inert mass. 

But this coupling is a double-edged sword. It not only transmits speaker vibrations into the floor, potentially exciting it and leading to boomy or muddied bass, but also allows external vibrations from the floor (like footfalls or traffic) to travel back *into* the speaker cabinet. This bidirectional transmission can introduce unwanted resonances, coloration, and a general degradation of sound quality. 

Podiums, in contrast decouple the speaker from its environment. They achieve this through a spring-loaded, air-damped system (called "Seismic Load Cells" by Townshend). This acts as a mechanical low-pass filter, effectively isolating the speaker from vibrations down to very low frequencies (below 3Hz). This isolation works BOTH ways: preventing speaker-generated vibrations from affecting the floor and preventing floor-borne vibrations from affecting the speaker.

The other thing I've liked about the podiums is their ability to adjust for height and leveling and the way they can accommodate various speaker sizes and weights, with or without their original spikes. 

My two cents.

^ + my .02 = .04

Tekon sells footers for $20.00. Remember every dollar saved can go to new vinyl. 

In my experience, with modding my VPI Jr. up to Mk.IV status and beyond, decoupling is the way to go.

I bought a Townshend Rock 7, later that confirmed the benefit of springs. Then developed my wall decoupling shelves, integrating Townshend Pods

I'm using the oem spikes which sit on isolation discs.  Basically, two machined discs with carbon ball bearings between them.  My floor is carpet on concrete. I would guess that the discs prevent a lot of bass from going into the floor. 

@sls883 

Ever watched the videos where Max Townshend setup an accelerometer, A/B ing on concrete floor?

If removing vibrations make one's system sound bad, you have another issue.

I'm using the oem spikes which sit on isolation discs.  Basically, two machined discs with carbon ball bearings between them.  My floor is carpet on concrete. I would guess that the discs prevent a lot of bass from going into the floor. 

In the test we did at my friend's room, his speakers were on carpet on concrete, in the basement. We tapped on one speaker (left) and saw a jump on the right speaker, about 8 feet away. And this was with the Gaia III footers. After the speakers were on the Townshend podiums, we tapped again – and saw nothing. Really amazing to see how much comes across even a concrete floor!

No matter what you do that 1" of shag carpet and padding is going to impact (sic) stability. How about laying down one or two 24" off-the-shelf concrete patio slabs to act as a base? Then add your springs etc.

Thank you to everyone, I have a lot to consider. My carpet is too thick for anything within reason to totality flatten it. Also an afterthought is I’m on a slab on clay with next to zero drainage. My floors wick moisture year round and if an area with any size can’t breath it will mold. So I’ll need a spiked platform or something with a box footer and a couple hundred pounds of weight. I have a pair of 14”x14”X4” Timber Nation spiked platforms that I bought for my Zu Omens. They didn’t provide any improvement because for whatever reason my Omens loved the back loading the carpet provided Vs every size gap I tried. Even Sean from Zu couldn’t suggest a fix. It was one of those times a tweak was a huge negative. Is there a spike available for the Townsend Podiums ? Thanks, Mike. 

@buellrider97 Not sure if Townshend has spikes but I don't have them and I don't need them with my podiums.

There's an interesting theory relevant here called the "Theory of More Stuff" 

It basically simplifies vibration isolation abd posits that introducing "stuff" between an audio component and its support surface will always reduce vibration to some degree. 

It dismisses two impossible outcomes: 

(a) vibration increasing (violating thermodynamic laws) or 
(b) remaining exactly the same (unlikely given a change). 

Therefore, the only logical outcome is attenuation of vibration.

Various materials and combinations, from spikes and plates to sand and concrete, can achieve attenuation. And more "stuff" often leads to better results – consider, e.g., stacked platforms.

The goal is to optimize this "stuff" for the best results in the simplest way. 

Historically, the spring has proven to be the most effective solution. A spring, or any compliant material, acts as a mechanical low-pass filter when paired with an appropriate mass. 

The ideal setup aims for a low resonant frequency (around 2Hz horizontally and vertically) and a specific damping ratio (0.16) to effectively isolate audio system vibrations, which typically range from 5Hz to 500Hz. This optimized approach ensures significant vibration reduction.

Thought you'd be interested.

See: https://townshendaudiofiles.com/most-overrate-kindness-greatest-be-oh-staking-laughter/

@hilde45 , Greetings and thank you for your input. I’m thinking I’ll need size 3 for the platforms. I saw them on AGON for I think $1700. They look like my top pic so far. I’m feeling confident that I can just run them on my carpet. Also on my spiked ZU’s I ran a 4lb stainless weight at the front edge on top. They are essentially jumbo TT record weights. We’re changing out the nearby 900 sq ft of flooring to glue down oak laminate in about 2 months. The seating area in the room 18’x17’ with the back 10’x18” already wood. Eventually I might go to wood or more likely a thinner dense Berber. FWIT , I’ve always appreciated your input as I’ve watched your system grow. I totally dig your JBL’s and all the effort you’ve put into trying gear and exploring room treatment’s. If I had TMR near by I’d be trying a lot more stuff. Also my kid in Wheat Ridge just put a bid on a second house. I’ll probably be there late fall. I was there last summer but we had a family party there and a wedding in Estes. I was too busy to see any gear. If I see a window when I visit I’d love to meet you. Cheers , Mike B. 

@buellrider97 Wheatridge has an audio store, Crescendo, which has great stuff! If you visit, please give me a shout. Message me and we'll set up a listening session! I did that with another fellow visiting his kiddo and it was great fun.

I think reaching out directly to Townshend might get you a good price; not sure but they're very responsive.

Also: I totally agree about calculating the weight with stuff on top of the speakers! I love my speaker weights and I actually see them up there (they are barbells) and they have gotten me working out a bit during my listening sessions!

Thank you for the compliments about my system. I'd be nowhere without the help on this forum and via local people.

I was curious about the Townshend until I checked the price.  $2620 for size 3. 

I read a review of Podiums and they are said to work on all surfaces including carpeting as is, without spikes. I was unable to resist. So I ordered a pair. I've known a number of audiophiles with great systems and for all of them the improvement level put them in the no brainer category. So, not sure why I hadn't got them before. 

Had a local shop cut some granite (counter top) into the size/shape desired (slightly oversized) as a base for the speakers and then placed on the floor consisting of thick carpet over concrete. Similar to concrete patio block idea except with some family approved style. A few hundred in cost that worked well for SQ and improved stability - preferred over Gaia.

@hilde45 Thanks , I’m looking forward to visiting. Also on my to do list is visiting the coffee bar “ ESP “ to hear their system. My son booked it for his customer appreciation night 2 years ago. @sls883 You have a killer system, congratulations. I hear you on the price. I went CHEAP on my speakers and at $3200 for speakers, the podiums are a lot. I see them at $1800 direct in a listing here on Agon. @willow7 , I am definitely considering what you’re saying, that is one of my major considerations in this thread. The “ More Stuff “ link from Hilde is definitely worth reading. As far as the slabs/footers I should obtain some in stone , wood and cement. Then try all 3 spiked and flat without anything under them. I’d need to go about 18”X 24”.   That gives me 6 possibilities and then there are a half dozen ways to couple the speaker with the platform. I guess that’s 36 combinations?  You guys have already done the leg work and I appreciate your input. The big curve for me is the moisture that wicks out THROUGH my flooring. I have carpet , glue down hardwood, tile and one room with pre LVP on a moisture barrier. I’ve encountered condensation and wetness and mold when I have anything more than a couple square feet that doesn’t breath and traps the escaping moisture. I live in a pretty dry environment but the ground my house is on is clay hard pan and it’s so bad I get effervescence causing minerals and salts to form. I moved my Peleton recently and I pulled back the 6’ equipment mat and you could smell the moisture and feel the dampness. That was the room with the moisture barrier and the LVP floor. Had I not accidentally discovered it , my floor would have been ruined. We’re finalizing a kitchen remodel contract and my wife bought 2 slabs of quartzite. I’m right there with you in regards to having some stone cut. The other thing I’ve considered is making a mold and pouring Quick-Crete slabs and including some type of threaded receptacle for spikes/ footers. Cheers , Mike B. 

Gentlemen thank you for the guidance and please continue. I’m just now stepping out of that old mindset that spikes anchor my speakers firmly to the floor and adding some weight on top makes the cabinet 100% unmovable therefore creating the perfect environment for the drivers to move fore and aft. I’m obviously late to the game , but I hear what you say based on your experiences and the gains you’ve achieved. FWIT about 15 years ago I was on the top floor of the county jail. This building has 5 floors and is the height of a 10 story building. It’s modern and made of steel reinforced concrete. It’s wide , stout and somewhat rectangular. With the inner walls and dividing floors almost like a giant box speaker. It was nighttime and quiet. An earthquake hit and I was sitting on an office chair with wheels. At first I could hear the low frequency rumble then I could feel the entire building sway slowly back and forth. It lasted about 20 seconds and slowly subsided. It then went back to quiet and still with only a light fixture still coming to a stop. Looking back at that from the perspective of this topic gives me a different appreciation of my earthquake experience. Cheers my Peers , Mike B. 

I think the 2 major factors in deciding whether to use footers or not are of course the type of floor you are on and the speakers themselves. A suspended wood floor would definitely require footers of some type regardless of speaker used. On a concrete floor you won’t get near the vibrations but still may benefit from footers. I think this is where the type of speaker you have comes in. Smaller lighter speakers might still be susceptible to vibrations but a heavier speaker    with a very robust cabinet I believe would not realize much benefit. I put a dual indicator on top of my speaker with no sound and the needle didn’t move. I then played music including heavy bass edm and the needle move .006-.008 of an inch. Very little vibration in my opinion. 
@hilde45 

In your test at your friends house what is the jump you are talking about when tapping on one speaker? Was it a jump in sound or did you do a measurement like I did? 

@buellrider97,

Misconceptions about loudspeaker spikes see here and here. 

Mike

When using Cabinet Speakers there is a lot that can be achieved by setting them up to be at a particular Dimension Spacing Between Speakers,  Speaker Toe In and the Vertical Plumb selected for the Front Baffle albeit, set perfect plumb or with a lean towards the Listener or to lean away from the Listener, a 1/2" inch to 1" inch lean can really nail the presentation from the Speaker when the other ideal dimensions for Spacing and the Toe In are discovered for the Room and Listening Position.

The speediest Way to learn about changes without exerting too much energy is to place the Speakers on 4 wheel bogies/skids, this method will create an ’on the fly’ change option where Speaker manoeuvring is speedily executed.

Once it is felt the placement is quite accurate the Speaker Position can be marked on the Floor using a Tape of about 3" Inches thick, the tape is also best if one that can have a demarcation drawn onto it, as small incremental changes to the orientation can be tweaked using the demarcations.

When the Speakers are presenting in a way that is seemingly unable to improved upon, a cheap way to experience a suspended Speaker is to use Inflation Devices similar to those shown in the Link.

For approx’ £20 outlay, each Speaker whilst on the Skid can be gently lifted to take the weight of the Floor. This will supply most of what a purpose made suspension footer will produce.

Additionally it will introduce the Speaker Owner to how lively and precarious a Speaker is when set up as a suspended speaker.

When one is confident all that can be created as a betterment for the Speakers set up in the listening space is achieved, the selection of a Permanent Footer is then the next stage.

I am familiar with AT 616, Gaia and Townshend used under Speakers on Concrete Floors and they are all very very similar in what is the end sound produced.

I have also created a very very similar impression as the suspended method using a Five Tier Support under Speakers, being Cork Pads as the Base Footer(Isolator), a Sub Sub Plinth, Cork Pads as the next Isolator, a Sub Plinth, and then suspension or pad isolation between Sub Plinth and Speaker. The Choice of Suspension Isolation or Pad Isolation for the Top Tier serves more as a tuning method, than a solution. 

Sub Plinths can be a variety of materials and need not be expensive, alternating the materials to be the Sub Sub Plinth or Sub Plinth does at times create a change worth producing. A not too compressed Chip Board is one material I always keep available and ready to be used as a Tier.  

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=inflatable+lifters&adgrpid=1174279341628466&hvadid=73392707061692&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=41557&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=p&hvtargid=kwd-73392619677444%3Aloc-188&hydadcr=22610_2286972&mcid=b0ac2dff81c0317aa436c43098617e79&msclkid=e7f83436e928144258d35c731d0ba858&tag=mh0a9-21&ref=pd_sl_8exbaujyv6_p  

@ronboco jump in measurement

@ditusa , thank you I stumbled across that recently on my trek to a new understanding. This perfectly illustrates what I’m now learning. There’s a quote about “ Contempt prior to investigation “, and I’m open to the wisdom shared and look at it as a time/money saver leading me in the correct direction. @pindac , thank you great info I shall study this further. I’m liking the bags  for experimenting and just trying to move 115lb speakers alone. Cheers , Mike B. 

Use what you already have and "spike" them through the carpet/pad directly to the cement slab.

Have you tried this?

DeKay

@buellrider97 Thank you.

I sent a message to Townshend though their website to get their recommendation for my speakers and I asked if they are a seller on Audiogon. I found a listing for $1799, but I can't figure out how to get seller info and feedback on them.  I've never purchased anything on Agon. 

@hilde45 

What was the measurement you took? It sounds like a test I would like to try. 

@sls883 , locate the ad in AGON Sales section. Scroll to the very bottom, it shows 100% on 525 items. Also a link to their E-Store. Up top there is a buy now and a make offer. If I was to pull the trigger I’d directly ask for their best price or make an offer 5-10% under their asking price. It also stated free DSL shipping, but coming from UK I’d clarify if there is an import duty or tariff so you’re not surprised. I also watched Hans Vanbeeker ( spelling ? ) video review. He really liked it but was vetoed by the wife. One thing he pointed out was the center of gravity for the speaker is ideal to have at the center of the devise. He pointed out most speakers are weight forward center of gravity because of driver weight. He suggest putting a dowel under the speaker and rolling the speaker fore and aft to determine COG. And if you have offset drivers doing the same side to side. I just saw the video today and need to look further , but my first thought was do I need a larger size as I’d assumed one would just set the speaker centered. Might be irrelevant, not sure yet. But once you’ve established contact you can find out. Please let us know what you’ve learned.  Also noticed 883 in your logo, that’s a Harley displacement size. Cheers , Mike. 

@dekay , I currently do not have anything but spikes and the non pointed OEM equivalent. I have a pair of 26” Sound Anchor 3 leg stands that weigh about 60 lbs each. I’ve run JBL and Klipsch Heresy on them. Just spiked through the carpet. I HAD blue dots but they melted and damaged the unfinished Heresys. I have a pair of Zu Omens that I ran spiked in place of the previously mentioned speakers. At only 50 lbs I had to lean on them to pierce the carpet and pad. I then purchased Timber Nation 4” thick footers with spikes to put under the ZU’s. I put the spiked ZU’s on brass cups with the footers. Looked great, sounded like crap. I talked to Sean Casey and experimented per his suggestion with spacing the ZU’s. I eventually gave up not being able to improve the SQ which was pretty good to begin with. I’m changing to a higher power rig with Rogue M-180’s and Rogue Hera pre. Hence I purchased the Tektons to get me by until I could afford something nicer. So I’m at day 4 with the Tektons sitting bare bottom on the wrong wall with the wrong amp. The funny thing is they actually sound decent. So my goal is correct room placement, new component shelf, NO TV, gear low to floor and room treatments. I’m currently trying to avoid subs and am considering what I’ve asked about in the thread. I’d try the Timber Nation footers but at 14”x14”x4” they are smaller than the 12”x18” footprint of the Double Impacts. I’m looking at new thinking as mentioned above , but struggle with not knowing and spending close to $2K to experiment. Then throw in the carpet and I have where I’m at. So far I’ve done everything I can to compromise the SQ of the Tektons and playing Tool at 95db with a cheap modded Akitika op amp , they sound really good. Go Figure. So with only spikes to try and wanting to try something new , I’ll probably get some 18x24 bamboo cutting boards and/or some similar sized sheets of quartzite or marvel to try. I’ll try spiked on that and maybe Herbies on that. I can discard the sheets and return or repurpose the Herbies. I figure that will let me know if I’m on the correct course before I pony up for Gaia’s or Townsend platforms. Maybe my logic is incorrect but these are my thoughts. I respect and appreciate all the input and I’m fine with criticism of what I’m doing. I’m just looking for the answers most of you already know. Cheers , Mike. 

@buellrider97 Thank you.  That's good information.  I'll report back with any feedback that I get from Townshend.

Yeah, I've had the sls883 name for a long time.  My first Harley was an 883.  Within months, I went to a 1200 Custom.  Then a Deuce.  I had a numbered paint set on it and cool wheels.  Wish I still had it.  Then a Road King, then Road King Custom.  Riding where I lived in Nebraska was not much fun (flat cornfields), so I eventually sold them. 

I´d try Stack Audio AUVA 50´s. Much better than GAIA etc in my opinion. And you can use them with the provided spikes or without. In my system they made a HUGe improvement. 😀 

@ghdprentice 

Please let us know if you think the podiums are worth the investment. 

@buellrider97 A guy named John Hannant replied through Agon messaging which seems a little weird.  I reached out through their website and not through Agon.  He sent a link to their items on Agon.  No product recommendation although I gave him the specs on my speakers and requested a recommendation. 

I agree with the above posters who suggested use spikes and make sure they make contact directly with the concrete slab so that your speakers will have zero movement. 

That is exactly what I did decades ago when I was dealing with a carpeted floor.

Made a huge difference in clarity, imaging and soundstage.

PS you can find cheap spikes with a lock nut at any hardware store

PPS biggest bang for the buck ever!

After seeing the following which shares similarity to my suggestion, I visited Amazon to see is a Castor might be recommendable, and then discovered the Castor Design in the Link.

These do look like they cover both requirements, easy manoeuvring and a 'on the fly' Rigid Contact option as well. A little pricey for a Temporary usage but not too much to instantly dismiss them. 

Where the footers also win is that a little thought for an added base plate 'if required' will allow for the Speaker Baffle to be taken out of being Vertically Plumb, and be tilted toward the Listener or tilted away from the listener. I have found the best sweet spot when a Cabinet Speaker has a forward lean between 1/2" to 1'.   

 "I was having to move my speakers around into the room find the best positioning.  Started using the felt furniture pads to slide  them out on hardwood floors.  Worked but to make it easier thought I would try 2” black vinyl castor wheels $30 on Amazon.  They are great for pulling the towers into position and I was shocked how well they sounded. Sitting on the small tips of the vinyl wheels with brackets sure worked for me." 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HOLKIE-Leveling-Workbench-Industrial-Adjustable/dp/B0C612VH9R/ref=sr_1_42?asc_source=01H8HFYCRM99TJ9FED7FSB1ZXC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.uvmXF9j0gz9IcDtft8j9DfIpCxkRzQYx4erdWw7QdySodhbL7CrS4s9h6mfhVeAKe4q76WfndZYQCXCfrvFYXtljupJJz05qRP1n8a1uRcVjIrC3KxqFNlNs_ofac1U4wR7XfI8SBiaaqyTL6rBicFSWujmU_IDRL9vWIMufHf_cgi3oaK1ie9AgVpgt3qoxQGlo_R7g6FpAeyex9gYj3Rx5RNElJIrr5483TFBR6zErFlNnPQzcuexeXhhIrzn-_gKGY-Em4ctujDVq2iFPoVw2QJHePcVpxg8Bpm4nS5A.zHWE1-mzYEU_onlo0eOlLcfoYV7Hr06atGO085GGUF4&dib_tag=se&keywords=castors%2Bwheels&qid=1749493467&sr=8-42&tag=snxgb19-21&th=1

@sls883 ​@buellrider97  John Hannant is who I dealt with. Because Townshend sells on A'gon, they notice when they're discussed on fora. I had good experiences with John for purchasing and also advice. I trust him and another Colorado friend bought two large sets of podiums and was very satisfied.

@sls883 , yes I received an email from him also, he must have reached out due to our conversation. I see @hilde45 comments regarding this person which gives us both confirmation of legitimacy. FWIW the Orange Buell in my bio pic was a 2000M2, it replaced my 1997M1. It was originally built by the race shop at H-D of Modesto as they ran the Battle-Twin races back in the day. It was based on stock Buell lower with https://millennium-technologies.com/ Nikasil 1250cc cylinders. Had late model Sportster heads reworked to support 8K rev limiter. When I received in a trade I had Chris Rivas ( Worlds Faster Bagger ), go through the cylinders and heads. On a Dynjet it was about 115 rwhp on pump gas. Had stock final drive gearing and a slightly larger rear tire. Ran to about 155 mph before the limiter kicked in , and was still pulling. Had a D&D race pipe , Olhins, Works Performance, Race Tech suspension and brakes. Also had a stage I 2000 Road King, sold em 2 years ago.