Footers under new speakers

@ronboco , I understand what you are saying and I’m just trying to step out of old thinking. When I had these speakers on the carpet without anything underneath I was surprised by the SQ. Now on spikes I have increased cabinet resonance and put 10lb dumbbells on towels to lower the cabinet sound. The Tektons are a basic somewhat inexpensive build and lack any sophisticated internal layering. I think this contributes to the cabinet being part of the sound. I purchased the Townsends and was told 2 weeks to produce and ship, so I’ll wait and see. The plus is I should have the speakers somewhat through the break in process. It’s been inconsistent and unfair to gauge improvement due to break in. Regards , Mike B. 

@buellrider97 

I do think the Townsend Podiums can be an improvement but I think the amount of improvement is very speaker dependent. Especially on concrete which is really pretty stable. In the Townsend video it seems obvious to me that the floor is suspended to get the maximum amount of vibration for the demonstration. I may try them one day but right now I’m not convinced the changes everyone is talking about are solely from eliminating vibrations. I hope you have good luck with your. 

I was already a big Townshend Audio fan before trying my Podiums. In my space, the main impact was the Ushers disappeared even more. On my carpeted suspended floor .

@ronboco , I think the Tektons have quite a bit of cabinet resonance based on what I’ve experienced this past week as a new owner. The other thing is I went low cost on a speaker and at $3200 for the DI’s and $1600 for the Townsends that’s a ridiculous price ratio. I’m not that well funded and could have gone to a nicer speaker at total cost. I am taking a risk based on the side conversations I’ve had with a couple AGON members whose opinion carry a lot of weight. For some reason I just felt compelled to spin the wheel.  Anyway I’ll get to play with 3 different speakers on carpet and wood and see what happens. My wife leaves soon for a month outta state and I’m free to be a teen again. I will definitely post my findings and I’ve no problem giving an honest finding , Good or Bad. I’ve been amazed and appreciative that not a single negative has been thrown at me and everyone has varied opinions and we all play well together. Best wishes and thank you , Mike B. 

@buellrider97 

I am looking forward to hearing how the podiums do for you. 
 

best regards 

Ron 

The Townsend Podiums were slightly sonically superior to the Isoacoustics Gaia, but the Gaia has recently been updated to “Neo” models

@ronboco I am talking about if the cabinet is allowed to move on the podium will it affect the drivers ability to properly produce the notes. 

I answered that question. Read my post again because you seem confused about the 0.01dB I mentioned.  The ratio of speaker cone to speaker mass is, in the example previously provided, 1000:1 which means the cone movement will be 1000 times greater than the cabinet which is equivalent to 0.01dB which the human ear can not hear. Once the speaker is placed on the Townshend podium which is sprung the combination will move together but be decoupled from the floor.

@buellrider97 has stated " I think the Tektons have quite a bit of cabinet resonance based on what I’ve experienced this past week as a new owner."

Based on your early experiences and shortness of a deliberation of the sound being produced, I suspect at present it is a condition met when in front of the Speakers that the source of the sound is able to be located by the ears.

The Box is adding a Sound that is not able to be unnoticed, or the Box is adding weight to a frequency that stands out for the locating of the source where the particular range of frequency is being produced.

To assist with taming a Cabinet Resonance, if resonance is noticeably present is able to done in certain cases with a Weight Placed on the Top of Speakers Cabinet. A 5Kg Dumb Bell, is a good start to lay on the Speakers Top Face. This can be moved around in 10mm to 20mm increments.

When the area is discovered for the weight that had the most effect at tidying up the sound produced, add to the weight, to see if a further improvement to tidy up the sound is able to be produced. If added weight improves things, tweak the positioning of the weight as well.

When all is as good as can be, live with it for a period and then try out simple isolators to see what is being added or taken away.   

 

@pindac , Yes , that’s exactly where I’m at. A few days back I placed a 10 lb dumbbell on top of each speaker. I spent the next two days moving the weight around while listening. I also have purpose made stainless steel round 4 lb weights that look like a TT record weight. I generally run those at the very front edge. By the time the isolation platforms arrive I hope to be through initial break in and basic speaker placement. At that point I’ll be moving the entire system to the appropriate wall , with the appropriate spacing off the back wall and start with the traditional equilateral triangle. I’m also going from 50 wpc SS to 180 wpc tubes. Since it’s a radical change I plan on repeating everything I’ve tried in the same order I’ve done. This is starting with no footers , to footers , to spikes , to weights on top , and adjusting the toe in using a laser. After all that I’ll try the Townsends . I’m allowing at least 4 weeks to experiment with placement. If that peaks my curiosity, I’ll probably try even more stuff. Cheers , Mike B. 

What's wrong with casters on the bottom of your speakers?  Otherwise you'll never be able to move them 

@emergingsoul , probably nothing. My objective is to try something new, and something other than spikes. I won’t know what is best for me in my setup until I try everything as you well know. Over the few years I’ve been on this site more and more people talk about DECOUPLING various pieces of gear. So I just want to try something new and out of my comfort zone. I have considered casters and have looked at peoples systems. This whole carpet thing is an obstacle I’m stuck with for now. I started by looking at Herbies Gliders and it’s morphed into this thread. I worry about instability because the carpet is so thick. And then we have all the choices. I have tried spiked platforms in my current layout with spiked Zu Omens on metal discs to protect the 4” thick walnut footers. That was a disaster sound wise. That particular speaker has the finger ports on the bottom that makes placement critical. Zu has since changed their design. So now with the 54” tall and 115 lb Tektons I’m starting from scratch. At some point I wail try casters , as one setup I saw online had big Tannoy’s on huge wooden footers that had casters. I really like the idea of being able to pull my speakers out when the need presents like now trying to adjust bass by back wall distance. I usually start low cost and go up to my low ceiling based on funding. Because this is totally new I jumped out of my cost range and purchased Townsend footers. So I’m starting at what I consider the Top and working down. One of my thoughts to your suggestion is to have casters on a platform or outrigger style bases under my speakers. At 12”X 17” and 54” tall they are a tall and unstable object. I am in the process of discussing this with the Tough Nut Isolation Cone staff and when they saw what I had they recommended their cylinders over the rubber cone footers. So I’m going to try a few things and share my results. The leftovers I plan to repurpose as component isolation footers. My worse case scenario is I sell it off if I can’t use it. So thank you for your input , it is valued and I will try it at some point. Regards, Mike B. 

@buellrider97 
Encouraging comments I look forward to future updates. I just wish manufactures of speakers Took to heart these types of mobility challenges.

As you may know Bowers does a great job with casters and it's huge deal to buy speakers with mobility potential.

Casters are used by dealers when they go to hotel shows. 

@emergingsoul  Absolutely, my friend who gifted me my amps has spent 6 figures on his gear. He just packed up for a house move. He has new B&W’s that are the expensive ones. He had to box them for the movers. They roll into their cartons and pack away with ease. I have Tektons that came in essentially non reusable packing and  totally understand this issue. I went from 6’ and 230 lbs with a 300 lb bench and a 450 lb deadlift to not being able to unscrew the cap on a water bottle over the past 7-8 years. But hobbies such as this give me great joy and allow me to be 16 years old and discover new things. Life is good , Mike B. 

I have my speakers sitting on washing machine vibration dampers.  Bass is fantastic. Imaging and sound stage is over the top. The floor is carpet on concrete in the basement.  Money saved went for better cabels. 

@knighttodd , That’s a great idea that never occurred to me, thanks. If I could afford what I want I’d buy the Tannoy’s that you have. I almost pulled the trigger on a pair of used Prima Luna Evos, but I was gifted my pair of Rogue M-180’s and had them upgraded to Dark. Your system really appeals to me, and the Camero is Sweet!  Regards, Mike B. 

On the first post in this string, I mentioned that the most likely consensus would be that Townshend Podiums are the most universally recommended solution. Also, that I probably needed to heed my own advice and get some. So, I did. I received them this morning. 

My speakers are Sonus Faber Amati Traditional. My listening room is carpet on concrete. After removing the spikes and wrestling my 135 pound speakers onto the very substantial podiums the sonic improvement was instantly obvious. I tend to measure sonic improvements in terms of the addition of a direct line. To me it is kind of a measure of value. A direct line can cost around $1K or so currently. The improvement is very noticeable. It is often like an interconnect or power cord upgrade... or component. 

However, the Podiums offer a different kind of upgrade. To me is sound improved in focus and image detail. A significant improvement.  But it completely leaves out tonal balance, and aspects that are often associated with electronics. Which, of course makes sense.... but you never know what you are going to hear before you do. Anyway, I’m sure I’ll be learning more about the subtile aspects of the improvement over the coming weeks. OP, thank for starting this thread... got me thinking and on the stick to do this. 

I purchased a set of Townshend Podiums about a year ago and was quite surprised at the level of improvement in "clarity and detail".  A number of upgrades I have made I have to talk myself into an improvement because it is in the right direction but that was not the case with the podiums.  And this was apparent on a system that I would put into the already highly detailed and resolving SS category.  My main system is on a carpeted floor over concrete.  As a tip I installed carpet sliders under the feet of the podiums and left them in place.  Really helps for heavy, in my case 260lbs, speakers on carpet for both positioning and tuning.  In discussions with John at Townshend this has no detrimental effect on performance of the podiums.

^ Great idea on the carpet sliders 👍

@wswright20 , Thank you for your input. In an attempt to gain further detail I looked at your system, Wow ! You have an astounding setup. I appreciate your input and based on the look of your carpet against the baseboard, that’s where I’m at with thick carpet. Could you please share what slider you used and are the Townsend feet just sitting on them ? FWIT Townsend contacted me this AM and we’re surprised mine had not arrived. They quickly responded that they will ship DHL next week. Regards, Mike B. 

@buellrider97 ,  Appreciate the comments, at least music and wine are legal vices!

The sliders are nothing special. I just ordered a round set off Amazon that had a diameter just slightly larger than the podium feet.  The feet are just sitting on them.  The weight and lip on the slider keep them in place when moving the speakers.

It will be obvious but make sure you move the speakers around by pushing on the podiums, not the speakers.  If your speakers are tall it helps to have another set of hands to steady them when moving.

One other suggestion, if you don't have a simple bubble level you might want to pick one up on Amazon as well.  Don't need anything special but for a few bucks it is very helpful for leveling the speakers on the podiums.

Hope everything works out great for you...

IE:sliders .... I just love simple, effective, easy solutions.... that’s all.  😉

I would get the carpet cut down and solidify the footprint.

That’s not going to happen. 

Looking forward to hearing how the Tough Nut cylinders work out.  

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet from the Audiophilliac but provides another interesting and subjective perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAOD3aUfIYQ

Despite all the vibration and isolation benefits of all these solutions may provide including the tightening of the bass from boominess, my only requisite is not to lessen or diminish any bass weight or impact to my sound.  

Hi, Buell / Mike

Nice bikes! Cool.

Apologies for being a bit off topic, but think it important.

You mentioned that the room is damp and that is producing “mildew”. It seems you may have had some serious health issues, noting “Life is good”. Agreed on that last point.

Mold is not a vitamin. It is dangerous and different folks have different sensitivities.

Symptoms can range from none, to allergies, to neurological problems, to compromised immune system to… death. Not good.

FWIW, I have a beach house, on the water. Everything rusts. It is always “moist”. I also have a sailboat, sitting in salt water. Everything rusts that is not marine grade. It is always “moist”.

I have had to become a Mold Warrior. And now, it would appear, a Mold Evangelist.

I have found the following most beneficial:

Temporary accommodations:

1) Run a Hype Hepa air filter. Plug it in, run it 24/7 and save your lungs / life. Get one big enough for the cubic volume of your space. Add a little extra capacity. Why not?

2) Run a dehumidifier. Best is one with a drain hose into a sink or sump with a pump. Also best is automatic on/off based on humidity levels, i.e. programmable, big enough for the cubic volume of your space.

Actual solution:

Remove the source.

While it may seem inconvenient, so is illness.

There are professional mold remediation experts. Call one or more. They can test for the various species reproducing under your carpet and fix the problem for you if you so choose.

While I agree about the Townshend Podiums, I would first invest in being healthy so I can listen to music, go sailing and enjoy life, which is good.

Apologies if this seems intrusive in any way. 

Life is good!

Thanks for listening,

Ken

@waldenpond , Hi and thanks , point WELL TAKEN. When off topic is important, off topic is greatly appreciated.  I’m in Clovis ( Fresno ), so you know the weather. My house in particular sits on clay with no drainage. I’m fully aware of mold , and being here , Valley Fever. I have taken considerable measures to make sure that my moisture is removed to prevent ANY mold or even a buildup of condensation. I have 2 dual pack air units that dry out the house as a by product of cooling. In the winter I RAN a wood stove , that was recently replaced with a gas powered insert . This is the area of the house most effected and I watch this like a Hawk. I have electric powered dehumidifiers in a couple strategic places with added circulation and especially in my gun safe. I do regular roof , attic and wall checks. I monitor the efflorescence that occasional occurs. Your point is well taken and greatly appreciated. FWIT my close friend has a 50’ boat in Martinez and we were at the Sail GP races recently. I’ve spent most of my life vacationing in Santa Cruz and fishing all of Monterey Bay. My body is worn out and broken from years in the gym supplemented with PED’s and 25 year career in a prison facility. I’ve been able to hike the John Muir trail, Fish tuna in SD and Mexico, Salmon in Monterey and fly fish Northern California. My son used to live on Fell St just above the Golden Gate Park area and we would cycle across the bridge and do Hawk Hill and Sausalito then back to the City. With broken body parts , heart failure and rheumatoid arthritis compounded with an autoimmune disorder I’m starting overtime. So I greatly appreciate your concern and I totally understand the dangers of naturally occurring environmental toxins. FWIT my last request is to have my ashes dumped into Monterey Bay at to mouth of the Canyon with some 60’s-70’s SF classic rock playing. Big Brother , Quicksilver , CCR ect. Much love and respect, Mike B. 

Would there be any merit in using both Gaia footers and a Townsend podium?

I like the looks of the Gaias, and I'm happy to gain some extra speaker height as i prefer to sit a bit further back to benefit from the deepest bass

Many thanks

gav

Hi, Mike 

Hang in there, Brother

Glad you are on top of it and have the music. 

I get the Monterey Bay connection. My place is in Santa Cruz. My boat is in Sausalito.

Good advice from Janis and Big Brother - "Get it while you can" 

Love and Respect x2. 

Double OT - that's the goal. 

Ken 

PS - I have Herbie's Big Fat Sliders under some B&W 802s that I need to slide around for serious listening sessions due to space & decor issues. They were better than spikes and also better than no spikes. 

K

 

 

. 

 

 

@gavman , Hi I like the Gaias too. The big hang up is the carpet. I have zero experience hence this post. The feedback I get from people that are not budget restricted are Townsends with Gaias very close. I’ve been fortunate to have side conversations with people I respect who have used both and it’s about 2-1 for Townsends. I like the looks of the Auva’s with spikes too. I’m waiting on the arrival of the Townsends and based on the overwhelming positive reviews and the large footprint I’m choosing them. I’m starting to step out if MidFi and the closed minded idea that spikes are the best. I have enough gear for 2-3 modest systems and will be trying ToughNutt cylinders and maybe the pointed footers on some isolation platforms. So probably Herbies , Auva’s and ToughNutt over the next year. The Gias might get sidestepped due to cost. Also I went directly to Townsend and they gave me a generous price through AGON. Cheers, Mike B. 

@waldenpond , Small world ! My fathers memorial plaque is next to the Crows Nest Restaurant. There are about 6-7 plaques that helped fund the seating area with the nautical star. If you look over at the Pink house on the point , I’ve stayed in the gray and yellow houses next to it. I have relatives that have a house backed into the upper harbor. To some SC is seen as gritty and raw, but to me it’s alive and overflowing with some of the best people and best times I’ve ever had. My dads ashes went in at Oneils one foggy morning 20 plus years ago and I’ll be rolling with the Orcas in the Canyon. And I do “ Pack my Trash “ 😎 Mike. 

My tower speakers weigh 85lbs each. This sounds funny, but give it a try, it worked for me. I have carpet on a cement slab as well. The funny is I tried spiked plastic furniture grips that have adhesive I got at Walmart cheap. They have no problem holding the weight with one square on each corner. I move the speakers when needed for cleaning with furniture sliders under the spikes. Works slick.  You could easily double them up for heavier speakers. The spikes isolate from the floor, yet stable. I would not have used this cheap solution if it had not improved the sound or were not stable.  Or, you can spend hundreds of dollars not knowing just how good this works. :)

@pcrhkr , Thanks this is interesting. If you scroll back a bit and look at @wswright20’s post he mentions doing the same. Also check out his gear page and see he’s essentially doing the same with 285 lb speakers. I’ll probably try that this week with my spikes ( if they don’t pierce through ) and with the raw cabinets. When my Townsends arrive in a week or two I’ll try them. Then I’ll probably try the Townsends with the furniture gliders again as wswright20 has done. Cheers , Mike B. 

 

 

As I’ve indicated before… I tried and abandoned the Townsend Isolation Bars for my speakers. 

 

The way I see it , we audiophiles are constantly looking for the next upgrade and more “ insight” into the recording.

 

And the other thing is that once you become an audiophile one of the things you often get a new perspective on is bass:  nobody wants to go back to the dreaded “one note bass” that’s so many of us grew up thinking was awesome in crappy systems.   And so audiophiles chase  and chase ever tighter bass, and wanting the speaker to disappear including in the bass region as much as possible.  I also went that way…at one point evening out the bass response in my room using dual subwoofers, a great crossover and room DSP.   I abandoned that because I found my speakers more pleasing without it.

 

And then I tried tons of different footers and materials underneath my speakers including the Townshend product.  

 

And yes, I got more of a  disappearing act from the speakers, tighter and more holographic bass.

 

But in the chase for ever more  holographic tight bass, I found I lost with me is highly valuable:  a sense of density, punch and salinity to the sound.

 

The more I made my speaker speakers sound  “ invisible” the more they reminded me of an electrostatics, which I abandoned years ago because I found the sound a bit too ghostly.

 

That’s why I ended up trying to find a halfway point between tightening up the bass and improving the sound of the speakers in my room, while not losing that density and punch.  Which for me was a combination of materials which included is acoustic Gaias and a custom made marble bass, as well as carpet spikes.  Carefully dialled in that combination got me what I want.

 

But of course, I still totally understand. Peoples enthusiasm for the Townsend products (I still use their pods underneath my turntable).  

 

And if somebody were looking to improve base response and have their speakers disappear more, if they can afford it, I would say the top choice would be Townsend.

@prof My point exactly as I posted before when it comes to bass density and punch.  Do you have a picture of your setup?  Which spikes did you use under your marble platforms on carpet?  Sounds like you gained quite a bit of height with this setup?

@gavman I have had Stacked ESL 57's as the mainstay speaker for many many years.

In conjunction with these as a means to create an alternative end sound, I have used Cabinet Speakers as both Stand Mount and Floor Standers throughout many many years.

It is the use of Cabinet Speakers that got me interested in removing Cabinet Influences and being able to identify the location of the source of the End Sound being produced. 

ESL Speakers are quite capable of not being present in the room, there is not a source for the sound that is easily located, my ears at this stage in my life has it as not locatable. This for my own purposes id very very attractive and is wanted to be available from all Speakers in use.

What have I learnt over the years:

1, A selection of Cabinets tried out are not able to be tamed, the Cabinet Influence is always to be present even though reduced in its effect, when mounted on a particular configuration for a Sub Support. 

2, A selection of Cabinets tried out are tamed, the Cabinet Influence is not present  when mounted on a particular configuration for a Sub Support. In a selection of used Speakers a Weight Placed on the Top of the Cabinet and positioned in different resting points can be the added treatment to tame the Cabinet in use.   

3, A Speaker can really deliver in a way that is extremely competitive to the used ESL when the Support Plinth Configuration, added treatment and Speaker Positioning is given a variety of set ups. Certain Set Ups have enabled the Speaker to excel beyond its offerings when used as a Basic / Typical Set Up.

4, A Cabinet Speaker when either on a Stand or Floor Standing is able to present much improved as a result of introducing a Sub Support produced as a certain configuration.

5, The most difficult part is the positioning of the Speaker within the listening Space. This has to be worked with and records taken of the positioning being used. Using a Decorators 3" Masking Tape as a demarcation on the Floor is ideal, it can also be Pencil / Pen demarcated produce easy to use incremental changes for an orientation. Taking dimensions to local structures from the Cabinet, i.e adjacent Walls, Dimension from Listening Chair to plane of speakers. These combinations of dimensions are the records to be kept. as when the real hot spot is being discovered, small increments can really hone in on the End Sounds Impression able to be made, i.e an instrument or vocal can easily be missing if the final tweaks are not meticulous. 

6, Symmetry of the Toe In is very important, accuracy of a dimension that is not to low mm's, can diminish or accentuate a certain sound, i.e, a Vocal Harmony can have a Tonal Parity or one Voice has the most noticeable presence, backing vocal can be very very far back vocals. 

7, The Cabinet Side Wall being Vertically Plumb is critical and checked periodically to tweak to correction as this can slip? i.e, possibly movement occurs as the load settles. 

8, The Front Baffle is rarely vertical Plumb in a Speaker I set Up, depending on the Speaker Cabinet Dimension, I have had cabinets set 70mm leaning forward. In general the Cabinets are leaning between 10mm - 40mm and that can be the front baffle leaning towards the listener or away from the listener. 

Raising the height of a Speaker and then working with it, has never proved a negative for myself.

As stated in earlier posts, I use a Five Tier Sub Support, which elevated the Speaker. 

I have also used double stacked AT 616 Suspension Footers, but the configuration is not creating anything that can be claimed is discernible as the impact on the End Sound. I have also Spiked onto the AT 616 Footers and that does create change to the End Sound that is discernible.  More is achieved in my trials by adding a Sub Plinth and a Particular Separator under and Above the Sub Plinth.  Even More is achieved through the use of 2 Sub Plinths with an additional Separator, making a Five Tier Sub Support.

The Link contains a Post from myself, that adds to the Options on how a Suspension Support can be produced.

 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/feet-of-silence-2  

@prof , I’m trying to picture what you are using. So marble with spikes as a platform and speakers with Gaia’s on top of that ? Any pics available ? Thanks , Mike B. 

I recently posted this link to an excellent article on this subject from the March 2022 edition of Positive Feedback in a different thread, but hopefully it can find some appreciation here as well:

Ten Misconceptions about Loudspeaker Spikes

The article is well written by the senior technical editor of PF and contains concise explanations for all points. Here is the article summary:

• Rigid feet couple vibrations
• Vibration is a two-way street
• Spikes cannot drain energy to a heavier mass
• A small contact point actually amplifies vibrations
• Spikes cannot reduce internally generated cabinet vibrations
• Question one-size-fits-all and no lab report devices
• Isolation means the mechanical path is either broken, or the form of energy is converted to another form
• Properly designed isolation is predictable, repeatable, and neutral in performance
• Isolation will offer clarity that cannot be experienced with coupling, because with coupling comes additional, unwanted vibrations
• Isolation is easy to perceive
• Vibration transmissibility is easily measured

 

And yes, I got more of a  disappearing act from the speakers, tighter and more holographic bass. But in the chase for ever more  holographic tight bass, I found I lost with me is highly valuable:  a sense of density, punch and salinity to the sound.

Super interesting point that I'd never considered. Thanks @prof

The thing about bass. I found Mid Fi JBLs will pound at mid bass kick like few others. The more expensive JBLs do good throughout the spectrum.  Other speakers have a low resonance at lower volume levels with more of a majestic deep bass sound. Klipsch are tight and a room shaker at higher spl. A drum kicker, but not a deep bass from what I have heard.   Others, need a sub woofer. All sound different and everyone has that favorite bass sound. All can sound great and depends on your favorite bass. It's what you like that matters.

@pcrhkr Precisely why isolation or vibration control devices may be robbing you of that bass sound/feel that you may like.  The claim is to clean up and make bass more focused but at what cost? Sure measurements can show a frequency response but how do you measure weight and impact?

@hilde45 

I’m sure you recognized a typo in there, but…

that sentence should read: “a sense of density, punch and SOLIDITY to the sound.

@prof  – I read it as "solidity." So much is dictated by folks these days, I just go with my best guess as to what they meant!

@trecool99 

@buellrider97 

I tried a  TON of different footers and materials underneath my loudspeakers. First under my Thiel 2.7s, but I tried even more under my Joseph Audio Perspective 2s.

 

I tried to soft footers , spikes, various pucks, Springs, and MDF platform I built which sandwich some sorbothane  isolation material, I raised height with cedar post caps, hockey pucks etc. and I tried all sorts of variations and combinations. 

My speakers sit on a carpet which is laid over a wood floor.  The spring footers essentially is isolated the speakers pretty much totally from the floor. But when I found, I didn’t ultimately care for the results I realized that I wanted some level of coupling to the floor, and yet still some gains in the sound from the speakers. 

I consulted with some people who actually worked in resonance control and they pointed out that even if you’re working with something like a granite bass, you’re not totally getting rid of vibrations or resonances - you’re essentially just pushing around resonances to different frequencies.  So I could play with that.   And that’s what I was doing I felt essentially finding a combination that I liked, and that I felt improved the sound.

It was fascinating because depending on how I oriented the same materials, it would change the sound.  For instance, and one combination I had the speakers on a sheet of granite, below the granite was a hockey puck on each corner, then the thin isoacoustics carpet spikes, and those carpet spikes were going into another hockey puck which was on the floor.  So essentially below the granite at each corner or two hockey pucks sandwiching spikes, and the last thing the “ floor saw” was the rubber hockey puck. 

That was more isolating from the floor - produced more of a disappearing speaker act for the bass, a really big airy sound.  Though a little lighter in tonality than I wanted.  

But if I simply reverse the materials at the bottom , made it a stack of two hockey pucks sitting on the iso acoustics spikes, so the spikes were going directly into the floor, then that clearly coupled everything more to the floor, and it changed the bass character and the overall tonality.  Bass was a little bit richer, puncher, and rounder and the overall tone slightly darkened and got amazing smooth and “ free of hash.”

I liked the higher and more open and realistic soundstage with the speakers raised something like 4 inches.  But with certain combinations, it was a little bit too airy and bright.  With other combinations, I could get a little bit too dark and lose a little bit of “ golden glow” tonality I like from my CJ amplifiers.  

Once I tried different combinations and found things to like in each, I kept going until I got the best combination of all:  

Joseph Perspectives with Isoacoustics Gaia on the back.

The front is raised on the supplied Joseph outriggers and spikes (there was a problem and that I couldn’t take off the spikes to put Gaia on), but those front spikes go into hockey pucks in the front, which raised the angle perfectly.

All that is a top a granite platform I had built : two one and a quarter inch slabs with sound damping material in between them forming a sandwich (damping material used for cars). It’s incredibly dead to the knuckle rap test.  

And then that granite platform is sitting on  hockey pucks at each corner, and the hockey pucks are sitting on the Isoacoustic carpet spikes into the rug/wood floor.

With this combination, the speakers are raised something like 6 inches high , which gives a huge, expensive realistic sound stage size.  And yet the sound is not light weight at all - it has the golden glow, but incredibly smooth and free of any hash or grain whatsoever, really “ black background”,  the bass is really punchy and warm but at the same time the tightest bass I’ve ever had from these speakers - it changes chameleon like with recordings.

And the speakers totally disappear.

The speakers are about 8 feet apart , and I sit between seven and 8 feet away, at this point, I’m sitting 7 feet away.  

And I use a curved diffuser in between and behind the loudspeakers which adds some more sonic density to the images. 

My pal who reviews ultra audio gear for soundstage came over for a lesson once I had everything dialled in and he was shocked.  Like as soon as the music started, he said “WTF? How did you do this?”   He said the sound was so incredibly expensive and immersive but with incredibly palpable sonic images, bass that energized the room but which was really tight, and upper frequencies that were “ just buttery smooth like I could listen all day no matter how loud.”

He felt it was one of the best systems he’s heard.  That was satisfying to hear.  

Anyway, after that long description, here are some photos you can click on .  Certainly doesn’t look like anything special:  

https://i.postimg.cc/HnBN1TFF/IMG-3862.webp
 

https://i.postimg.cc/Hk7K8wgj/IMG-4289.jpg
 

https://i.postimg.cc/fbZCgfNV/IMG-2401.jpg
 

 

 

@prof , Thank you , Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to write your post . I will definitely learn from all the effort you put into finding what works for you, under your circumstances. You have invested hundreds of hours to find out. I appreciate people like you and Hilde45 who have put in the time to find out. You both have a curiosity and an open mind. The whole point in my post is for me to alter my mindset and I’ve asked for and received great advice. What I try to avoid is the closed mindset and especially knowing my truth will probably be similar but not identical to others. What I avoid is for example “ Power cords make Zero difference”. Then someone makes that same blanket statement every single time as if that absolutely applies to every other person. FWIT I peaked to see if you had a posted system but I noticed a post you had about 12AX7 and 12AU7 substitutes. I read it because I’m at that point with the amps that are new to me. I just pulled the nos Telefunken 12AX7’s and put in GE 5 Star 12AT7’s , after trying new production Tung Sol 5751’s. Next up will be Sylvania Gold label in 12AT7, or 12AY7. Regards , Mike B.