When I have an hour I may read this.
EXTRA! EXTRA!! Millercarbon Proven Wrong!!! Read all about it! EXTRA! EXTRA!!
Been a long time now saying no one will ever DIY anywhere near as good as what you can buy already made. Never in a million years. Well, I have been proven wrong.
Not like I shouldn’t have known better. I Met both Caelin Gabriel and Ted Denney around 1992, back when they were not that far from being DIY’ers themselves. So it is not so much that it can’t be done, as it is just astronomically unlikely.
Okay, well so anyway that’s what I was saying, good luck you will never do it. Someone decided to call me on it, and took the unusual step of sending me a power cord to hear for myself.
This first one I got, we will call him Mr Black. I was actually quite surprised how good it was. Real solid imaging, spread across a sound stage nice and deep and wide, with plenty of dynamics and gobs of detail and extension. Only problem, no bass, the sound overall was thin and the top end extension a little too much. I let it burn in playing CD hoping it would warm up and round out but it never did get there. Captivating as the sound stage was the lack of bass and body eventually got too much and I moved it aside. Figured oh well not bad for DIY went back to my old Shunyata and sort of forgot about it.
Until he checks back, we get to talking, and he drops the bomb, “Yeah I was going for real good imaging with that one. I have much better now, way better.” Really??!?! “Would you be interested in evaluating?” Would I?!?!
So I get these two power cords, we will call them Mr White and Mr Silver. Mr White looks exactly like the first one, except white not black. Mr Silver is thinner and stiffer, almost too thin to be your typical audiophile type power cord. With nothing else to go by I decide to start with Mr White.
Right away, and I mean immediately, this thing is impressive as can be. All the great 3D imaging, incredible speed and resolution of Mr Black, only Mr White is superbly balanced top to bottom. This has me pretty gaga, not least because this is straight out of the box. It was late, I was pressed for time, just thought what the hell might as well get this over with. But now I am sitting here trying to understand how any power cord - let alone one some guy made at home - can be doing this to my system.
Couple days later I am calling and being told yeah, friend had a Nordost Odin 2 to compare and this is at least as good. ? I have never heard Nordost Odin, 1 or 2, but by now I am finding it hard to argue.
What am I hearing, with 10 maybe 20 hours on it? The Holy Grail of audio, at least as far as I’m concerned, is infinite speed with zero edge. Nothing really does this. Everything super fast always winds up being etched, or hard, or thin, or hyped, or anything other than what I want which is full and round and balanced AND light speed fast. My ears are sensitive to glare and so forced to choose I will take full and round and balanced over fast. It is just a more enjoyable listening experience. All the best components in my view capture both of these sort of conflicting goals. Tekton does, with electrostat speed combined with big box fullness. Townshend does, improving perceived speed by lowering the noise floor while eliminating ringing. Herron, Koetsu- pretty much everything in my system is oriented along these lines.
Mr White is pushing on the edge of this envelope. It is even smoother and fuller now, but without losing any of the initial speed.
I actually had these before the F1 came but held off writing about them partly out of respect for Max Townshend, who is actually running a business, and also partly because it is just kind of hard to believe the darn thing really is this good. Thought maybe with the F1, which are even cleaner and more revealing than Synergistic CTS, maybe it might reveal some problems with Mr White. He is after all home-brew. Cannot possibly have the thorough vetting of a “professional” product.
But no, both these truly exceptional lengths of wire are fine together. So fine I was reluctant to try Mr Silver. Unable to comprehend how he could be better, unwilling to listen to anything less. I get spoiled fast! 😍 But I put him in there and at first thought he might be even better. But it was just the impressively palpable presence and solid stage. After a while it was clear Mr Silver is not as superbly effortlessly detailed and fast as Mr White. Not quite as good bass either. Bear in mind the bass we are talking about being "not quite as good as" is really, really exceptionally good! The main difference between the two is a bit of glare.
But when I say glare, this has to be taken in context. I never, ever thought of my Moabs as having any glare. Until they were on Podiums, at which point they were- comparatively. The glare wasn’t the Moabs, it was the ringing, now eliminated by the Podiums. Synergistic CTS never seemed to have any glare or grain- until compared with Townshend F1. Same kind of thing, a ringing that presented as a hard edge or glare is gone now, and for the better. Mr Silver is indeed a fine power cord in its own right. Just not up to the exalted level of Mr White. I suspect few, if any, are.
Not like I shouldn’t have known better. I Met both Caelin Gabriel and Ted Denney around 1992, back when they were not that far from being DIY’ers themselves. So it is not so much that it can’t be done, as it is just astronomically unlikely.
Okay, well so anyway that’s what I was saying, good luck you will never do it. Someone decided to call me on it, and took the unusual step of sending me a power cord to hear for myself.
This first one I got, we will call him Mr Black. I was actually quite surprised how good it was. Real solid imaging, spread across a sound stage nice and deep and wide, with plenty of dynamics and gobs of detail and extension. Only problem, no bass, the sound overall was thin and the top end extension a little too much. I let it burn in playing CD hoping it would warm up and round out but it never did get there. Captivating as the sound stage was the lack of bass and body eventually got too much and I moved it aside. Figured oh well not bad for DIY went back to my old Shunyata and sort of forgot about it.
Until he checks back, we get to talking, and he drops the bomb, “Yeah I was going for real good imaging with that one. I have much better now, way better.” Really??!?! “Would you be interested in evaluating?” Would I?!?!
So I get these two power cords, we will call them Mr White and Mr Silver. Mr White looks exactly like the first one, except white not black. Mr Silver is thinner and stiffer, almost too thin to be your typical audiophile type power cord. With nothing else to go by I decide to start with Mr White.
Right away, and I mean immediately, this thing is impressive as can be. All the great 3D imaging, incredible speed and resolution of Mr Black, only Mr White is superbly balanced top to bottom. This has me pretty gaga, not least because this is straight out of the box. It was late, I was pressed for time, just thought what the hell might as well get this over with. But now I am sitting here trying to understand how any power cord - let alone one some guy made at home - can be doing this to my system.
Couple days later I am calling and being told yeah, friend had a Nordost Odin 2 to compare and this is at least as good. ? I have never heard Nordost Odin, 1 or 2, but by now I am finding it hard to argue.
What am I hearing, with 10 maybe 20 hours on it? The Holy Grail of audio, at least as far as I’m concerned, is infinite speed with zero edge. Nothing really does this. Everything super fast always winds up being etched, or hard, or thin, or hyped, or anything other than what I want which is full and round and balanced AND light speed fast. My ears are sensitive to glare and so forced to choose I will take full and round and balanced over fast. It is just a more enjoyable listening experience. All the best components in my view capture both of these sort of conflicting goals. Tekton does, with electrostat speed combined with big box fullness. Townshend does, improving perceived speed by lowering the noise floor while eliminating ringing. Herron, Koetsu- pretty much everything in my system is oriented along these lines.
Mr White is pushing on the edge of this envelope. It is even smoother and fuller now, but without losing any of the initial speed.
I actually had these before the F1 came but held off writing about them partly out of respect for Max Townshend, who is actually running a business, and also partly because it is just kind of hard to believe the darn thing really is this good. Thought maybe with the F1, which are even cleaner and more revealing than Synergistic CTS, maybe it might reveal some problems with Mr White. He is after all home-brew. Cannot possibly have the thorough vetting of a “professional” product.
But no, both these truly exceptional lengths of wire are fine together. So fine I was reluctant to try Mr Silver. Unable to comprehend how he could be better, unwilling to listen to anything less. I get spoiled fast! 😍 But I put him in there and at first thought he might be even better. But it was just the impressively palpable presence and solid stage. After a while it was clear Mr Silver is not as superbly effortlessly detailed and fast as Mr White. Not quite as good bass either. Bear in mind the bass we are talking about being "not quite as good as" is really, really exceptionally good! The main difference between the two is a bit of glare.
But when I say glare, this has to be taken in context. I never, ever thought of my Moabs as having any glare. Until they were on Podiums, at which point they were- comparatively. The glare wasn’t the Moabs, it was the ringing, now eliminated by the Podiums. Synergistic CTS never seemed to have any glare or grain- until compared with Townshend F1. Same kind of thing, a ringing that presented as a hard edge or glare is gone now, and for the better. Mr Silver is indeed a fine power cord in its own right. Just not up to the exalted level of Mr White. I suspect few, if any, are.
304 responses Add your response
^^^ "A man who doesn’t read is no better off than a man who cannot read." Millercarbon ... I had the same experience when Tim Mrock sent me two experimental power cords to evaluate. We were going to use them in the system Tim had planned for last year’s Capital Audio Fest. I could only use them in the PH-8 (phono amp) and the CD player because of the connections. Hey, I’m using some mighty fine SR power cords that sound amazing, but holy-crapola Batman! ... Tim’s DIY cables blew everything down the tubes. Tim said that they were so labor-intensive that if he ever brought them to market, the eventual retail price would have been over 10k each. They were about as thick as an elephant’s trunk and stiff and heavy. I had them for three weeks, and sending them back was like pulling two ribs out of my side. I’d love an entire loop of whatever it was that Tim did with these things. Frank |
Yes if you read the article it is clear Caelin and Ted are examples of very advanced audiophiles who transitioned from DIY to creating new products and selling them successfully. There’s a pattern there, for those able to spot it. Also if you read the article it is clear the cables are from "a guy" who is on this site and saw my disdain for DIY cables and there is a message there as well. He knew from my outspoken views on the matter that I would be a tough one to convince. Also as everyone here knows I am not shy about calling crap crap. My standard for crap is so high the first cable he sent me was crap in my book, even though I am sure that a number would call it quite good. Would not even be surprised to find some who would prefer it to my old Shunyata. If you like a return policy then you should go with Ted. Synergistic has easily the best long term track record of consistently good cables, with the widest budget and performance range across the years. So there are so many great ones out there from new to old it is incredible. Like my Element CTS speaker cables, freaking outstanding wire even in spite of being 16 years old. But because they are that old they are only about $1200, and at that price I seriously doubt you will find anything better. The ones I reviewed, if the guy gets to where he is willing to offer these for sale- and assuming he can figure out production and details like that- then he will let me know. And if he does then from what I have heard he will do very well indeed. |
A person that is willing to listen, is a person that is willing to change. The only thing in life that is absolute is CHANGE. Just because I like one product doesn't mean I can't like another. Yup, owning up that's different.. That just shows growth. More than anything honesty. Sometimes brutally honest, but honest just the same. Can always work on the polish and poise. MC folks should NEVER wonder where they stand with an individual, they may not want to stand there, but at least they know where you stand.. Always worked for me. Regards |
oregonpapa- I had the same experience when Tim Mrock sent me two experimental power cords to evaluate. We were going to use them in the system Tim had planned for last year’s Capital Audio Fest. I could only use them in the PH-8 (phono amp) and the CD player because of the connections. Hey, I’m using some mighty fine SR power cords that sound amazing, but holy-crapola Batman! ... Tim’s DIY cables blew everything down the tubes. Tim said that they were so labor-intensive that if he ever brought them to market, the eventual retail price would have been over 10k each. They were about as thick as an elephant’s trunk and stiff and heavy. I had them for three weeks, and sending them back was like pulling two ribs out of my side. I’d love an entire loop of whatever it was that Tim did with these things. Pretty darn cool when people send you stuff to evaluate like that, isn't it? Of course that will never happen to the people who mock instead of listen. So we got that going for us. Mr White is like that, extremely labor intensive, and extremely addictive. The labor intensive part, I'm told it uses 3D printed parts, the intricate assembly is not at all easy and takes hours and hours, and that is about all I'm comfortable saying. If all the guy had to do was snap his fingers to have one self-assemble it would be a no-brainer to sell them. But invention, prototype, and manufacture are three very different things. Mr White isn't that thick, only about 1.5" and relatively light and flexible. But with the labor-intensive aspect it would probably be up there with what Tim said. If indeed it can even go into production. It is one thing to make one or two, quite another to figure out how to produce consistently and efficiently on an ongoing basis. |
| Post removed |
Being an Audiophile for over 40 years ,what impresses me more then anything is a product that can beat products of much higher cost ,for say 1/4 of that. Just like in stereo times a $2k fuse that truly makes a nice improvement for 1 fuse that's insane . Synergistic I have had in the past ,IMO Ted Denny is a very arrogant ego maniac , his top cables maybe excellent but how many are going to pay $15k for a pair of speaker cables ,or $7k for a power cord ? maybe 3% at most of Audiophiles would buy them .make a top quality product that the average Hard working Audiophile can afford that's what would impress myself and many of my peers !! |
In my experience, all cables sound different in different systems. I have all Ayre electronics....Ayre recommended Cardas to me. As a matter of fact, Ayre cables are actually Cardas manufactured and just a bit different from the branded cables. To ME, the Cardas sounded awful...Colleen said it needed more break-in time....a couple of months went by and I looked for something better for me. My searching brought me to Audioquest WFLowe Signature cables, I tried them....not for my system...and so it went |
A manufacturer is merely a sophisticated DIYer. All manufacturers started off that way. As to life-changing improvements to SQ from a power cord, poof. You get taken in by emperor's new clothes if you're that gullible. This is how that tale goes in the audio world: A fool goes to hear Miller's rig. Miller swaps a power cord and says he hears Nirvana. The fool may be a fool, but he's got good ears. He hears no change. But he tells Miller he thinks it's wonderful. That's how Miller's message gets spread, like a virus. |
Great posts MC. Appreciate you and the transparency. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insights. I understand, that, for some people who already know everything about audio this post may not be for them; but, for those of us still looking to learn and gain insights on "all things" Audio, I appreciate people who are willing share their stories so others may benefit. |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
04-14-2021 8:07pm "Great to have a replacement for Geoffkait." Where? Please! We need it. Since geoffkait left, we have been reduced to millercarbon. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>... Ok Ok I'll log on under the name "ohbrotherwhereforartthou" and start bugging the heck out of you.. will that help? :-) Remember the barn scene? "We're in a tight one" Whole barn is on fire.. LOL Regards |
It's called the placebo effect. Here's a great video about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KX2yk-9ygk&t=1684s |
Moral of the story, LISTEN... Test equipment is in no way a means to evaluate a cable. We all know system synergy is key. A quality well made cable can sound great in "your" system regardless of how it measures and a great measuring cable can sound not so good in "your" system ie lack of bass in Chuck's system with Mr Blacks cable. This leads me to say I believe all cable mfgs need to offer trial periods. |
Another waste of bits and bytes on the web. MC comment: ‘Just not up to the exalted level of Mr White. I suspect few, if any, are.’. With comments like this, the whole story collapses. Everything this audiophool does he claims it’s the best of the best but later on he claims he was wrong. If he liked SR cables in the past, which he probably claimed are the best, why didn’t he move up to the better SR cables instead of a different brand? MC buys the cheapest stuff of a name brand and claims it’s the best. MC should check out SR’s better cables before stating that your new cable is at an exalted level. |
They were about as thick as an elephant’s trunk and stiff and heavy. One should look up the orignal Eichmann cable filter/enhancer item to understand (early/mid 2000’s?), a bit better, what is going on with power cables. Or look at the construction of anti cables, and think for a bit. Then consider the high tension transmission line, and look into how such a thing works. Hint: all the intelligence in it... is in the field. A bit of a misnomer to state it this way, but essentially...the wire is just a guide for the field. Then look at how high end power cables are built and ponder some more. One could think of power cables, the biggest or most physically obese ones.... as more of a noise enhancing impedance drag on field effects. likened to a re-expressed or customized in it’s behavior ---ferrite bead. There’s no magic to it and I have ignored that entire area of endeavor for a reason. I don’t think it’s wrong, per se, but I don’t think it’s entirely the correct way to do things, either. A difference is an effect, but is it the right one? People are getting something out of using power cords of such a nature.... but is it the right thing to be doing? Granted there is some goodness, but how far is too far? When are we entering into the area of false enhancement via noise addition to transient draw on the field that is emmeshed in the complex materials arrangement/set... that surrounds the wire element core? When does good design, for the right reasons (as it cascades through multiple minds and manufacturers)...finally enter the area of foolishness and wrong headedness? |
Ayre recommended Cardas to me. As a matter of fact, Ayre cables are actually Cardas manufactured and just a bit different from the branded cables. To ME, the Cardas sounded awfulI’ve been using Cardas in my Ayre system for years and have been super happy. In fact, I replaced the hookup wire in my Thiels with Cardas litz. To my ears it was the icing on the cake of several crossover upgrades, bringing the sonic picture into coherent focus. I have noticed Cardas needs a couple weeks break-in and I can imagine some listeners preferring a different cable, but “awful”? Really? |
To Miller Carbon and any others who think that cables made of copper or silver get OLD, this is just a comment and a question. I know cables can sound different, I've heard such differences myself. Mostly those differences have to do with attenuation, RFI, cable length and connectors. I'm not trying to show anyone up or pretend to know better than some "expert." I lot of the people on this site have much broader experience than I do, and they have spent more money for their audio setup than I ever will. BUT -- every ounce of copper or silver on planet earth is older than planet earth and can only be created in the last dying seconds of a stars life as it goes super NOVA. Then and only then do the pressures and heat exist to combine hydrogen atoms into these elements. So, how is it possible for a 16 year old cable to be too old. The connectors may be corroded, or they can be damaged, but they are not too old. If you clean the connectors, on both ends, and check for damage, they will work as well as they ever have. Perhaps you can buy a better cable than your old one, but it will not be because your cable is too old. |
Pretty darn cool when people send you stuff to evaluate like that, isn't it? Of course that will never happen to the people who mock instead of listen. So we got that going for us.Congrats on being able to admit you are wrong about something. It's a valuable tool; however, if self promotion was the most valuable tool you would be the King of all Men. |
assetmgr- To Miller Carbon and any others who think that cables made of copper or silver get OLDWhatever gave you that idea? Not from anything I ever wrote! Read it again. teo_audio- the wire is just a guide for the field.Good one. Keep thinking along those lines. woots- Great posts MC. Appreciate you and the transparency. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insights. Good to hear. That is indeed what it's all about. Thanks! |
I have a difficult time believing a power cord can make things differently. How is this possible. Then to mention a price of $10,000. This group must be so filthy rice that they don’t know how to get rid of their money. I wonder how they are able to get these purchases past the gate keeper? just so I am understanding this discussion properly, you are talking about the power cord that plugs into the wall socket to the amplifier. Right? Your not talking about a power conditioner? I still don’t know how a power cord could make this m |
I have a difficult time believing a power cord can make things differently. How is this possible. Then to mention a price of $10,000. This group must be so filthy rice that they don’t know how to get rid of their money. I wonder how they are able to get these purchases past the gate keeper? Right. That last part is the one you got right. It isn’t necessary for you to "believe" you either hear it, or you don’t. In this case the improvement is so obvious you will hear it. Not only will you hear it, you will be shaking your head trying to believe your eyes, that it is only the power cord that changed and not the amp, speakers, turntable, everything. Trying my best to make the point this not at all subtle. If it takes a week to build something, your time is valuable, you have overhead, and need to make a profit to keep doing it, then this alone will dictate a high price. Doesn’t mean anyone will pay it, only that it will have to be in order for it to be made in the first place. Then as far as what people are willing to pay, well there’s no shortage of expensive specialty goods people are willing to pay for. See: Rolex. My favorite part though is "the gate keeper". Takes me back.https://youtu.be/7RqLBev2I0Y?t=14 |
I am the maker of these power cords. If you want to know more about the cords send me a message. MC explained how they sound very well. If you have ever tried a really expensive power cord in your systems like Nordost Odin2 which retails for 24k you know what he is talking about. Good power cord will transform your system. If you have the guts to try I can send you Mr Silver and you can see for yourselves. Mr Silver will get you pretty close to Odin2. |
bewgow2-
I am the maker of these power cords. If you want to know more about the cords send me a message. MC explained how they sound very well. If you have ever tried a really expensive power cord in your systems like Nordost Odin2 which retails for 24k you know what he is talking about. Good power cord will transform your system. If you have the guts to try I can send you Mr Silver and you can see for yourselves. Mr Silver will get you pretty close to Odin2.That is the point I was trying to get across. Mr White is so good it is totally jaw-dropping transformative. Beyond "you do not even have to try to hear" obvious, we are talking obvious on a level you are forced to admit whether you want to or not. Kind of obvious the wife who never set foot in the room but only heard it from the kitchen and through the door says it sounds better, more clear, like real music. That is not a story by the way. I went out to make a drink, that is what she said. Mr Silver is not in that league. But it is very, very good. So good it is almost a shame to have heard them together. I have the feeling that in any other company besides Mr White that I would be saying many of the same things only about Mr Silver instead. |
Well heck, everybody else can be coy, what the heck does the Elephant trunk COST? NO, I can’t afford it, well maybe, well actually, I can afford it but I’m tight. I just might have to dig up a tin can in the back yard.. :-) Besides I make a pretty serious power cable to.. No elephant trunks though. Close...LOL More like donkey, well we won’t go there... I have the Clydesdale series too.. little more domestic. Regards |
