He knows that. He's just slinging his usual insulting innuendo. Which is funny. He clearly wants nothing more than to insult and demean and harm. If he would leave it alone the thread would go away and accomplish his goal. But every time he posts he brings it back alive and active. So the guy is a walking talking Own Goal.
EXTRA! EXTRA!! Millercarbon Proven Wrong!!! Read all about it! EXTRA! EXTRA!!
Been a long time now saying no one will ever DIY anywhere near as good as what you can buy already made. Never in a million years. Well, I have been proven wrong.
Not like I shouldn’t have known better. I Met both Caelin Gabriel and Ted Denney around 1992, back when they were not that far from being DIY’ers themselves. So it is not so much that it can’t be done, as it is just astronomically unlikely.
Okay, well so anyway that’s what I was saying, good luck you will never do it. Someone decided to call me on it, and took the unusual step of sending me a power cord to hear for myself.
This first one I got, we will call him Mr Black. I was actually quite surprised how good it was. Real solid imaging, spread across a sound stage nice and deep and wide, with plenty of dynamics and gobs of detail and extension. Only problem, no bass, the sound overall was thin and the top end extension a little too much. I let it burn in playing CD hoping it would warm up and round out but it never did get there. Captivating as the sound stage was the lack of bass and body eventually got too much and I moved it aside. Figured oh well not bad for DIY went back to my old Shunyata and sort of forgot about it.
Until he checks back, we get to talking, and he drops the bomb, “Yeah I was going for real good imaging with that one. I have much better now, way better.” Really??!?! “Would you be interested in evaluating?” Would I?!?!
So I get these two power cords, we will call them Mr White and Mr Silver. Mr White looks exactly like the first one, except white not black. Mr Silver is thinner and stiffer, almost too thin to be your typical audiophile type power cord. With nothing else to go by I decide to start with Mr White.
Right away, and I mean immediately, this thing is impressive as can be. All the great 3D imaging, incredible speed and resolution of Mr Black, only Mr White is superbly balanced top to bottom. This has me pretty gaga, not least because this is straight out of the box. It was late, I was pressed for time, just thought what the hell might as well get this over with. But now I am sitting here trying to understand how any power cord - let alone one some guy made at home - can be doing this to my system.
Couple days later I am calling and being told yeah, friend had a Nordost Odin 2 to compare and this is at least as good. ? I have never heard Nordost Odin, 1 or 2, but by now I am finding it hard to argue.
What am I hearing, with 10 maybe 20 hours on it? The Holy Grail of audio, at least as far as I’m concerned, is infinite speed with zero edge. Nothing really does this. Everything super fast always winds up being etched, or hard, or thin, or hyped, or anything other than what I want which is full and round and balanced AND light speed fast. My ears are sensitive to glare and so forced to choose I will take full and round and balanced over fast. It is just a more enjoyable listening experience. All the best components in my view capture both of these sort of conflicting goals. Tekton does, with electrostat speed combined with big box fullness. Townshend does, improving perceived speed by lowering the noise floor while eliminating ringing. Herron, Koetsu- pretty much everything in my system is oriented along these lines.
Mr White is pushing on the edge of this envelope. It is even smoother and fuller now, but without losing any of the initial speed.
I actually had these before the F1 came but held off writing about them partly out of respect for Max Townshend, who is actually running a business, and also partly because it is just kind of hard to believe the darn thing really is this good. Thought maybe with the F1, which are even cleaner and more revealing than Synergistic CTS, maybe it might reveal some problems with Mr White. He is after all home-brew. Cannot possibly have the thorough vetting of a “professional” product.
But no, both these truly exceptional lengths of wire are fine together. So fine I was reluctant to try Mr Silver. Unable to comprehend how he could be better, unwilling to listen to anything less. I get spoiled fast! 😍 But I put him in there and at first thought he might be even better. But it was just the impressively palpable presence and solid stage. After a while it was clear Mr Silver is not as superbly effortlessly detailed and fast as Mr White. Not quite as good bass either. Bear in mind the bass we are talking about being "not quite as good as" is really, really exceptionally good! The main difference between the two is a bit of glare.
But when I say glare, this has to be taken in context. I never, ever thought of my Moabs as having any glare. Until they were on Podiums, at which point they were- comparatively. The glare wasn’t the Moabs, it was the ringing, now eliminated by the Podiums. Synergistic CTS never seemed to have any glare or grain- until compared with Townshend F1. Same kind of thing, a ringing that presented as a hard edge or glare is gone now, and for the better. Mr Silver is indeed a fine power cord in its own right. Just not up to the exalted level of Mr White. I suspect few, if any, are.
Not like I shouldn’t have known better. I Met both Caelin Gabriel and Ted Denney around 1992, back when they were not that far from being DIY’ers themselves. So it is not so much that it can’t be done, as it is just astronomically unlikely.
Okay, well so anyway that’s what I was saying, good luck you will never do it. Someone decided to call me on it, and took the unusual step of sending me a power cord to hear for myself.
This first one I got, we will call him Mr Black. I was actually quite surprised how good it was. Real solid imaging, spread across a sound stage nice and deep and wide, with plenty of dynamics and gobs of detail and extension. Only problem, no bass, the sound overall was thin and the top end extension a little too much. I let it burn in playing CD hoping it would warm up and round out but it never did get there. Captivating as the sound stage was the lack of bass and body eventually got too much and I moved it aside. Figured oh well not bad for DIY went back to my old Shunyata and sort of forgot about it.
Until he checks back, we get to talking, and he drops the bomb, “Yeah I was going for real good imaging with that one. I have much better now, way better.” Really??!?! “Would you be interested in evaluating?” Would I?!?!
So I get these two power cords, we will call them Mr White and Mr Silver. Mr White looks exactly like the first one, except white not black. Mr Silver is thinner and stiffer, almost too thin to be your typical audiophile type power cord. With nothing else to go by I decide to start with Mr White.
Right away, and I mean immediately, this thing is impressive as can be. All the great 3D imaging, incredible speed and resolution of Mr Black, only Mr White is superbly balanced top to bottom. This has me pretty gaga, not least because this is straight out of the box. It was late, I was pressed for time, just thought what the hell might as well get this over with. But now I am sitting here trying to understand how any power cord - let alone one some guy made at home - can be doing this to my system.
Couple days later I am calling and being told yeah, friend had a Nordost Odin 2 to compare and this is at least as good. ? I have never heard Nordost Odin, 1 or 2, but by now I am finding it hard to argue.
What am I hearing, with 10 maybe 20 hours on it? The Holy Grail of audio, at least as far as I’m concerned, is infinite speed with zero edge. Nothing really does this. Everything super fast always winds up being etched, or hard, or thin, or hyped, or anything other than what I want which is full and round and balanced AND light speed fast. My ears are sensitive to glare and so forced to choose I will take full and round and balanced over fast. It is just a more enjoyable listening experience. All the best components in my view capture both of these sort of conflicting goals. Tekton does, with electrostat speed combined with big box fullness. Townshend does, improving perceived speed by lowering the noise floor while eliminating ringing. Herron, Koetsu- pretty much everything in my system is oriented along these lines.
Mr White is pushing on the edge of this envelope. It is even smoother and fuller now, but without losing any of the initial speed.
I actually had these before the F1 came but held off writing about them partly out of respect for Max Townshend, who is actually running a business, and also partly because it is just kind of hard to believe the darn thing really is this good. Thought maybe with the F1, which are even cleaner and more revealing than Synergistic CTS, maybe it might reveal some problems with Mr White. He is after all home-brew. Cannot possibly have the thorough vetting of a “professional” product.
But no, both these truly exceptional lengths of wire are fine together. So fine I was reluctant to try Mr Silver. Unable to comprehend how he could be better, unwilling to listen to anything less. I get spoiled fast! 😍 But I put him in there and at first thought he might be even better. But it was just the impressively palpable presence and solid stage. After a while it was clear Mr Silver is not as superbly effortlessly detailed and fast as Mr White. Not quite as good bass either. Bear in mind the bass we are talking about being "not quite as good as" is really, really exceptionally good! The main difference between the two is a bit of glare.
But when I say glare, this has to be taken in context. I never, ever thought of my Moabs as having any glare. Until they were on Podiums, at which point they were- comparatively. The glare wasn’t the Moabs, it was the ringing, now eliminated by the Podiums. Synergistic CTS never seemed to have any glare or grain- until compared with Townshend F1. Same kind of thing, a ringing that presented as a hard edge or glare is gone now, and for the better. Mr Silver is indeed a fine power cord in its own right. Just not up to the exalted level of Mr White. I suspect few, if any, are.
304 responses Add your response
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Another review of moneoone Nova (Mr Silver) just posted here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/m101-nova-power-cord#2201405 |
So you did hear improvement, just not that much. Good. What I said was the improvement is so slow and gradual it is hard to hear. The way to really notice is to first get used to the way it sounds being on all the time for a week or two. Then turn it off overnight. Do this, and then when you hear that let us know what you think. |
Had the opportunity last night to compare Inakustik 4004 power cable with Nova and my reference Supernova. A very nice power cord for which I would love to be able to do a full review. Unfortunately in the circumstances we have only one night with it, hence this mini-review post. The 4004 is a beautiful piece of work and easily the best feeling and one of the most flexible power cords I have ever had the pleasure to use. The last few inches going into the receptacle or IEC is with many power cords a struggle. The flexible black rubbery material at either end of the 4004 makes this a breeze. It is almost too good. The bulky massive metal collars at each end are so heavy as to be almost a hazard- do not let them swing into anything! But overall a power cord that exudes quality. The sound right out of the box was a bit grainy, but this is to be expected after having been twisted around a lot in shipping and setup. This being a demo unit it settled in real fast. While I am sure it will sound a lot better with more hours we don’t have more hours so.... The sound is beautifully engaging if ever so slightly warm. Real nice depth, very solid imaging. I like it. A lot. Especially after having been stuck the last two weeks with nothing but CD. The 4004 brings a welcome analog and almost tubey feel to the presentation. We move to the Nova for comparison. Nova is very similar, a bit less warmth but quite a bit more detail. Again, to be expected given the out of the box extreme low hours circumstances. Sorry, but it is what it is. The "review" I mean. What I hope people will get out of this admittedly less than ideal comparison, is these two power cords are close enough in performance to come down to individual tastes and preferences and systems. Pretty amazing I think that Nova is able to go toe to toe with a more expensive product like this and come out being able to say that. The other thing is, these were both run on my Melody amp. To do so I had to remove the Supernova that is usually there. At the end when the Supernova went back in, wow! Might sound funny but I had forgotten how good that thing is! Either one of these power cords, 4004 or Nova, are easily good enough to please a lot of really demanding audiophiles. Supernova however is transformative. I mean like to the point it is hard to believe this is "just a power cord". |
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Wow mahgister you found the cheapest/best ones yet! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001873954927.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.784439a1ocmQ3A&a... |
These, in case you’re not familiar with them:Interesting.... Thanks... If you suffer earthquakes and children it is not advised to use these springs boxes indeed... They are stupendous on my desk and relatively safe.... No children and no earthquake here.... 😊😁 My best to you.... |
These, in case you're not familiar with them: https://herbiesaudiolab.com/products/threaded-stud-glider |
Thank you, mahgister, for providing these details... I have monitors on stands. Placing these springs either between the speakers and the stands' top plates or under the stands' bottom plates strikes me as rather precarious. . . and given that we've been exper-iencing more earthquakes, lately, I think I'll just stick with the Herbie's Threaded Gliders for now ! |
Thanks, bewgow... I used these one with success... There are 7 springs you must fine tune the load under 1% of precision (around 200 grams)...It is relatively easy with listening short experiments... For that there are 2 ways: you substract the number of springs or you damped your speakers boxes with a heavy load on top..... I make it with a load.... And i even used 2 sets for each speaker, one under the speaker and another set on top of the speakers under the heavy load (around 75-80 pounds) The difference between the 2 sets with different compressive force applied on each of them ( the weight of the speaker on the 4 springs boxes under it and not only the granite load like for the 4 springs boxes under the load) decrease the negative resonance of the speaker.... Anyway it is better than one set..... It was so good i forget the rest.... 😊😊 Ratio quality/price over the roof.... the price for the 16 springs boxes is under 100 bucks... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001873954927.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.784439a1ocmQ3A&algo_pvid=aac08ca8-9b33-4e3e-8308-28eb2427a39d&algo_expid=aac08ca8-9b33-4e3e-8308-28eb2427a39d-17&btsid=0bb0623f16233337392911480e89c2&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ BUT it will not be PRACTICAL with children in a living room.... And not safe... The balance is not hard to disrupt.... It is amazing but i have an audio room dedicated to my system.....Then all is safe for me.... |
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A little context, the description you're relying on is written by some ESL noob not a user or audiophile. Also it is talking about this one version. Nobsound has a couple different versions of the same basic thing. This one is Corain or acrylic or something, I don't know what. Material make a difference. The Nobsound one I'm using and most of us have is only a few bucks more and uses machined aluminum instead of plastic. Also with all springs the sound you get is greatly dependent upon matching the springs to the load. Particularly with plain springs they bounce (duh!) and are resonant, so tuning the springs to the load is very important. Too much load you will get thick sound, too little it will be thin. It is easy to add or remove one spring at a time and hear the difference. Play around with this you can get quite good results. You are essentially trading a low price for a lot more trial and error and effort. This is another area where Townshend shines, they are sized and sold according to the load and give great results with none of this swapping springs to get it right. |
Thanks, bewgow... According to Amazon: "Sound full of thick warm, it's very suitable for systems whose tone is cold and tight and lack of attraction" I will resist the urge to indulge in adolescent humor and simply state that the above characterization does not accurately describe my system. Nevertheless, I thank you for kindly providing the link. |
millercarbon-- Thanks for your response. FYI, my system is digital only. I'd be interested to know what you tried before adopting the Townshend podiums for your speakers. I looked on the Nobosound site and saw Schuman generators but nothing else that I recognized from the posts I've read of yours so far... Stuartk |
stuartk- I realize you are intent upon (and have the fiscal means for) achieving the very best sound but would you be willing to suggest a "lower tier" of somewhat less expensive tweaks? You mean like $30 Nobsound instead of $300 Pods? DIY cable elevators? Rubber bands? A perennial favorite, sand beds, concrete- this is my turntable rack. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Total cost $150, or $300 with the granite top. Lost count of how many times I have explained the construction used, how incredibly cost-effective it is, and of course there it is 24/7 on my system page. Actually I have had people PM saying they studied my system page and learned a lot and tried some of these things and they work and... thanks! So the info is all there. What are you looking for? |
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@millercarbon begow asserts you are "trying to teach people that to get a great audio system you do not need expensive boxes. You need to be smart about what you are doing. The little tweaks is what matters". I appreciate this campaig of yours. I've got roughly 10K invested in my current "boxes" (excluding speakers) which is about as much as I'm willing to spend. Furthermore, I've recently had some fairly dramatic results from tweaks, so I don't need anyone else to convince me of their value. Which leads me to my main point: there must be other guys who, like me, cannot afford Townshend level prices but are nevertheless intent upon making the most of our current "boxes", utlizing your "whole system" approach. I realize you are intent upon (and have the fiscal means for) achieving the very best sound but would you be willing to suggest a "lower tier" of somewhat less expensive tweaks? |
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bewgow-
Right. Long ago back in the early 90’s I was a total doubter. Every bit as bad as these guys here. Only unlike them I have a couple really big things going for me: I can hear, I am willing to try and be proven wrong, and I care deeply about sound quality. I want my music to sound good! Not just good, but like Dana said when he was here last Saturday, religious experience good. So when I tried Black Diamond Racing Cones and was floored how good they worked I started taking them around trying them under everything everywhere. In no time flat it was proven this tweak that is only $60 for a set of 3 can make even a $5k CD player sound a lot better. You would probably have to go to a $6k or more CDP to achieve the same performance improvement. So while a lot of people were saying, "I’m not paying $20 for one stupid Cone!" I was saying, "What a bargain I can make $1k worth of improvement for $20!" It has been like that ever since. The one true criticism of my system is the whole thing is comprised of a bunch of rather mid-level price components. All my components, with the notable exception of the Supernova, are only around $5k and a lot like my amp are half that. Even my Koetsu is the cheapest Koetsu. It is just not a very impressive system, not if all you see the system as a bunch of boxes. Why then are people like Dana saying it is a "religious experience"? Are they all lying? Look at my system page. They are all making up stories? The truth is my system is extraordinarily revealing. People talk about speakers disappearing, my whole room disappears! People talk about the sound stage, you are immersed. You are swimming in it. Not because of the boxes. Because of the cumulative effect of all these other things the haters hate so much: tweaks. The Moneoone Supernova is the biggest one for sure, but the Nova and all the Townshend and of course Krissy magic, they all make a huge contribution. It all goes together. There is after all a reason we call it a sound system: it really is a system! A system is not a collection of parts. A system is a collection of parts that work together. Thanks for noticing I am trying to teach people this. I am far from the only one. Mahgister is doing a lot of the same things, for a lot of the same reasons. The good news is people are catching on. The message is getting through. It just doesn’t always seem that way. But that is only because the tiny minority stuck in the past are really active and vocal. Too bad. Their loss. Not ours. Some guys also asked me about cheaper cables. Yes I could make cheaper cables and their sonic benefits would not be as impressive like “Mr Black”. MC can easily pick up all the small changes these cables make because his system is very resolving. But regular guys do not build systems like his and do not have his hearing skills. Nova and Supernova will floor you with the sonic improvement even on a lesser system.Just my advice you can take it or leave it, but I would stick with what you are doing. The instant you drop down into cheaper stuff there’s a ton of options. Yours might still be better value, but it will be as dust in the wind. Where you are now is like the Koetsu of cables. Yes the cheapest one is still very expensive, but they are hand made craftsmanship and my oh my the performance! |
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bewgow’s moneoone cables are no joke. Huge improvements across the board in my system. Running 2 Nova power cables and 2 sets of his xlr cables. I don’t pretend to understand it but it’s absolutely real. Review forthcoming. My average listening level has increased about 10db because of the complete lack of any glare. Much more to it than that I will expand on. |
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Fantastic! I am glad that people are learning that cables make a difference. I designed Nova and Supernova cables to compete with the best cables out there and the sonic benefits are incredible.
Some people point out that the cables are out of reach for regular customer. I would say no they are not. It is in the mindset. Here is an example.
MC is trying to teach people that to get a great audio system you do not need expensive boxes. You need to be smart about what you are doing. The little tweaks is what matters and cables are as important as the expensive boxes. I have here a Schiit Bifrost DAC from 2015 for testing purposes. It is a great DAC for the money but it is no match against the DACs that cost several thousand. But If I use Nova with Bifrost it beats the 6k PS Audio Direct Stream DAC with black cord. So who is the smarter buyer here? A guy who invests in the power cable or the guy who buys an expensive DAC?
Some guys also asked me about cheaper cables. Yes I could make cheaper cables and their sonic benefits would not be as impressive like “Mr Black”. MC can easily pick up all the small changes these cables make because his system is very resolving. But regular guys do not build systems like his and do not have his hearing skills. Nova and Supernova will floor you with the sonic improvement even on a lesser system. |
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danager was just here, spent a good 8 hours listening and comparing. Cable elevators make such a huge difference he heard the sound change even as I was removing the first one. Just one. On one side. Obvious. He cannot understand why- why it works, why anyone would not be able to hear that it works. Then power cords. He gave the usual reasons why the power cord cannot possibly make any difference. After all, it comes hundreds of miles from Grand Coulee Dam, how can the last 5 feet possibly make any difference? I pulled out one of my freebie black rubber power cords. By your logic then this cannot possibly sound any different than the $10k Supernova plugged in there now? That's right. So we plugged it in. Put on Steve Miller Space Intro. First 10-15 seconds, about all that I could stand. He never heard it before on my system. Told him don't worry, this will not even be close. Plugged Supernova back in. Dropped the needle. Immediately he says, "Wow! Totally different!" I worry that by immediately someone thinks I mean as soon as the music started. No. Immediately. As in immediately upon the needle dropping into the groove. Immediately as in that very instant. Immediately as in the lead-in groove. The freaking lead-in groove sounded better. Immediately. The music made it into a whole new universe. No comparison. So now he has two mysteries: one, why they make any difference at all (don't know) and two, why everyone doesn't know they make a huge difference. So there you go. Supernova: the power cord so good you can tell even by the lead-in groove. |
Member bewgow sent me a pair of his moneoone brand xlr cables and one of his power cables a few days ago. I am a huge skeptic when it comes to cables of any kind. I have to say I am floored at the difference. I don’t know how or why there is such an improvement but it is absolutely real. Obviously this is not expectation bias because honestly I expected to hear little to no difference. I’ll get into specifics after a little more time with them but I’m telling you folks the difference was immediate, obvious and all for the better. Is it an improvement to the level of a new expensive amplifier or even new speakers? Absolutely and if I read this from someone else I would have thought they were full of s**t. Crazy and totally unexpected. |