Different subwoofer settings for different albums?

Depending how audiophile one want's to be, my ears hear bass levels that need the gain bumped up/down. Not a big deal to me.

Otherwise, the gain is somewhere in the middle like the compromise of your phono cartridge.

There are those classic LP with just too much low end-Chicago debut?
Humble Pie-Smokin? Chambers Brothers-TIme has come today?

REL G1 or No.25 with remote is perfect for a sesssion. I wonder if you had a swarm or 6 pack, does 1 remote control all of them?

Nonsense….

this only comes up if you want to hear the sub all the time. As in trying to add bass amplitude rather then extend the frequency. 
Once a sub is set flat with test tones it simply plays what is there and every album does tend to have different bass levels. Some songs my subs do almost nothing and other songs they rattle the doors. 
I have found with one sub you can get some pretty big nulls at certain frequencies and can tend to very from song to song more than two or more subs depending on if the songs prominent bass note hits the null or not.  But we’ll setup subs just play what is on the source. 
I am of the opinion subs are one of the best upgrades you can make when done right. When done wrong they can really mess things up. 

He probably never tried a REL subwoofer. This is the best your going to get as far as subs that blend with main speakers. Its not perfect but its very close. I hated subs for this reason for a long time, until I bought a REL B2 Britainia ...now I love my sub.

So a dealer I know told me that he doesn’t use subwoofers and doesn’t know anyone who does (!) because he finds that every record has different levels of bass and would require a new subwoofer crossover point to properly blend with the main speakers. 

The least insulting thing we can think to say is you might want to consider looking for another dealer.

@millercarbon - yes, have to question his skill set in this area...

@james633 thanks makes sense

If I really get it as close as I can to reality on a wide range of records in the set-up process, I don’t mess with it. Sure, there will be variations in recordings, and if you are of a mind, you can buy a very high quality equalization (analog) unit to play with such adjustments. In gross, I think there is a big difference between reproducing music and soundtracks for movies, and the latter demand "shuttle lift off" capability. I remember watching people’s primal reactions in a large scale home theatre I ran back in the early ’90s. T-Rex stomping -- the audience would be squirming in their chairs--is a little different than Cecil McBee playing double stops on a bowed bass. But, you really have the ability to do what you want---the cheaper "pro" gear is not necessarily something I’d want to put into a system, and it’s been years since I heard the Cello Pallete so I don’t know how well that stands up today, but I suspect you can find some high end parametric equalizers if you want to twirl knobs. I’m not trying to be dismissive about it; it is a fair question, but optimally, I guess you’d be adjusting things based on program material and not shortcomings in the playback system.
A lot of what is considered "bass" isn’t super deep. And to my ears, a lot of what defines lifelike bass isn’t just the ability to reproduce the lowest fundamental, but the harmonics and decay behavior of something like a well-recorded concert grand or well-mic’d double bass. If that isn’t on the recording because of how it was made, EQ after the fact that it is "locked" isn’t going to suddenly provide it; you’ll be placing greater emphasis on part of the range of sound, but not installing ambience, or affecting decay (I caveat this knowing some folks have multitrack capability and can do just that, but for the average home consumer even with some serious "audiophile" gear, it isn’t possible). You can’t create what isn’t there. (Well, an engineer can, and that’s what they do- manipulate the sound considerably in some cases to make it sound "natural"). Manipulating only at the subwoofer level is even more limited. I’d worry more about overall coherence and voicing, so you are hearing fully fleshed out instruments in the deep registers. And it coheres with the mids and high frequencies in balance. 
If you are listening to hard rock or electronica, your priorities may be different--not wrong, just different. But, to nail down what a real piano sounds like (having one or two around in the house is helpful just as a reference), or double bass --(I come back to Cecil McBee only because he was generous in playing melodic lines that never interfered with the overall composition), there is a set up that will, with modest effort, give you a taste of reality on the the other side. At that point, and this is a strictly personal point of view, I don’t mess with something that sounds lifelike. That’s my baseline. You can also mess with VTA, but drive yourself mad particularly with cartridges that don’t seem to care much about the stylus rake angle or such other technical issues. You can go through a set up process using engineers, measurements, tools and computers, but the final arbiter, even if it is just a slight touch of arm elevation, or a modest change in crossover setting, may get you in the zone. But the final adjustments are made by "ear." And that’s where I stop. I don’t keep readjusting record by record; I personally think that way lies madness, but if you can handle it, go for it. More work. I adjust VTA on the fly only rarely, and only when there are truly gross differences in the nature of the disc thickness and how it was cut. I have also lived with cartridges that were far more sensitive to this particular adjustment, and others that are kind of agnostic. Get the arm height right and stuff snaps into focus.
To the extent the recording doesn’t deliver, twirl away. It will compensate, but not replace, a more authentic experience of the original performance under conditions that may simply not have existed when the recording was made; in other words, you can’t fix it "after the mix." You can do more gross adjustments, and also look for pressings (if you are an LP hound) that bring it closer. Sometimes, that’s the difference- the pressing and the mastering. One can be flat, dead and lifeless and no amount of fiddling on your end is going to change the source material; however, you can judiciously "juke" the sound to some degree. Me, I prefer to find the best sounding pressing of a given record and let it be. It’s sort of a very after the fact, after the mix, after the mastering, after the pressing attempt to crudely compensate for what the original recording lacks. If you listen to some of the Steve Wilson remixes of the old UK prog rock catalog, it’s immediately evident that Wilson’s preference for working in the digital realm is not a huge negative, given what he is able to pull off by going up-chain to the multitracks and actually remixing the album across the board. That you cannot do, as far as I know, at home, based on a two or even 5.1 recording. Others may take a different view.
Sorry for all the words, time- you know?

Can you tell us who the dealer is please? It will help me narrow down my list of which dealers to work with.

Undoubtedly the low bass in some recordings is more pronounced than in others and the desire to get up and make sub adjustments is hard to resist!
I`m sure that most people starting off with sub`s do what I did and run them too loud. In my modest experience that tends to subdue the rest of the frequency range especially the highs. 
The best setting is where you can notice how much better the overall sound is make when listening with and without them even though their contribution sits in the background. 

Not my experience.  If a Clapton album was mixed so that the bass and drums are down in the mix a little and the focus is on the guitar, that's what you're "supposed" to hear and a sub(s) won't accentuate that if you have your levels set correctly.  If Deamau5 wants to make your liver quiver with the bass, then your subs should do that at the same settings.

Oh man.  Oh man oh man.

Subwoofers integrated correctly are glorious. 

If you find yourself raiding their gain, you probably didn't set them up correctly, and should consider actual tone controls.

Well integrated subwoofers are invisible. Find a different dealer.

Set your sub or subs properly (not by ear in my book) and forget. The sound recorded is what I'll listen to, and with three subs down to 25Hz I'll only hear what is on the program, nothing more or less. Having that clean tight ultra-low last octave adds a lot, but only when it should. Mine are 100% sonically invisible.

If I have a recording that is just too lean, or being played too low in volume, I can use a 'loudness' type button to help add a subtle bit of low end curve. I use it for low volume listening mostly. I never touch the subs once dialed in.

In days past we didn't have subwoofer control. Your system just played the bass notes as they were produced on the album. Some albums had little bass and some had room shaking bass. Your job was to get your system to sound right and correct playing unamplified music to get the bass balance right. Once set, that was it, and you just played your albums as they were. 
Today, I find myself adjusting the bass all the time but mostly because of the Fletcher Munson Curve and the loudness level I am using at the moment. As I play louder, the bass gets turned down and gets more natural. 

Great topic.

The spinoff  thread - do you break audiophile protocol and make technically incorrect adjustments to enhance the experience?

On some recordings, listening to them on a well planned/technically "correct" setup reminds me-Yup, the recording is what it is-relax and let the sub do what it does. If you're listening in a living space and expect to hear what some are, all bets are off.

So a dealer I know told me that he doesn’t use subwoofers and doesn’t know anyone who does (!) because he finds that every record has different levels of bass and would require a new subwoofer crossover point to properly blend with the main speakers.

A new crossover point; no, a different amount of gain; maybe. Considering that the acoustic properties of your room differ from those of the recording and mastering venues not to mention the amount of contraband in use at the time, it is possible that the balance between mids and lows could be off, but it is rare. Usually it is just a few stray frequencies that are off that muck things up.

Thanks everyone.  I don't want to divulge the name of this dealer because I think he has been very helpful in other ways and nobody's perfect, right?  But I will use my subwoofer and I will not worry too much about needing to mess with it from record to record (or streamed album to streamed album in my case), knowing that all of you are enjoying subs every day.  

You don’t want to divulge the name of the dealer? He didn’t do anything wrong -- he has a view about audio and he’s willing to state it. You’re protecting someone who has a greater ability than the average person to defend a view about audio. Why do that? If it's because you suspect they actually can’t defend themself, then you should consider whether they deserve to be a dealer in the first place.

It's called 'Level Matching' (subs to mains).
All you need is a SPL Meter and external 'Test Tones'.
From what I've gathered based on the various subwoofer threads here at a'gon, seems it would be too complicated for the majority of members to invest the time to do it right - oh well...

@hilde45 -- look this was a private conversation with this dealer and I didn't provide him any indication I would be broadcasting any of his personal opinions by name on a public forum so I just feel weird about doing so.  PM me if you want more info privately.

I guess your dealer thinks that you like to play Record Producer instead of listening to an album as intended. 

It can be a problem in some situations and recordings but usually you can find a setting for your subwoofer that works for almost all of your music.

@redwoodaudio  No need to PM. The fact that it was a private conversation definitely means that it should not be broadcast.

My only point was that as an expert, indeed a professional who makes money based on this expertise, his advice should be able to stand the scrutiny of others. He's telling you something privately that is easily contradicted both by customers with experience and by many other experts. If he's willing to make money from you by telling you these things, he should be more than willing to listen to and respond to counterarguments.

But, again, I agree that being unexpectedly broadcast to a forum is not quite fair pool.

If it were me, I might say something like, "I have been discussing the idea of no-subs in a variety of places, and there's a fair amount of push-back from amateurs and professionals alike that subs can be quite a healthy part of a system" and see what he says.

All in all, if this was me, I think he's "outed" himself as much less of an expert than one might have thought, and while he can continue to be the functionary who takes a cut in the sequence from producer to consumer, he'd be on the way for me as someone to get advice from.

redwoodaudio, I think you might need a new dealer. If subs are set up correctly that is nonsense. I never feel the need to change my subs in any way. The correct set up of a system is the right set up for all music with the exception of balance. Balance does change slightly from one record to another so you might have to adjust the balance a dB or two to get the image perfect.
The subs are either integrated correctly or they are not. The problem is in most cases they are not. One of the major attractions of swarm systems is it is easier to get an acceptable result. Integrating subwoofers without measurement tools can be a real frustrating endeavor and many systems are worsened by their addition. Yes, you get more bass at the expense of detail. Many subwoofers are still quite audible in the lower midrange. You can't make their analog filters steep enough even with silly low crossover points.  

@hilde45 and @mijostyn, I appreciate your feedback to my question and I agree that this dealer is not quite the all-around audio expert I was hoping he was. Fortunately, I could reality-check that questionable advice on this forum. I've relied on expertise in this forum much more than I've relied on any one dealer in building my system, which is cool to acknowledge. 

I agree with the others here.  Going to bass limited main speakers (down to about 40Hz) and adding two subs was a major improvement to the sound of my system.  Two subs was a significant improvement over one and the only other major improvement I would consider at this time would be to add a third (or fourth) sub.  Fortunately, my subs can be adjusted by remote volume control so I have their level and phase set up for 80+ percent of the recordings I listen to but have the ability to easily adjust volume if necessary for certain recordings or if I am playing my system at a lower or higher volume level than typical.

@whart , Yes, a big subwoofer system for movies is a riot. I got my new laser projector calibrated professionally last week and the tech wanted to see a Blu Ray movie when he was finished. I just happened to grab Star Wars. The beginning of the movie is very quiet until you get to the fighting scene in the rebel starship. When the shooting started he was really startled. I had a great laugh. 

I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying. I would like to make just a few additions. Analog equalizers are difficult, even the Cello. They are very capable of making an image that was very life like, very two dimensional. This is not the case with digital equalization which can be use to improve the image and get a system to sound exactly the way you like. Done at high bit rates digital EQ is invisible as you noticed with Steven Wilson's remixes. This tech is available for home use. 
Subwoofers add greatly to the realism of most performances. When Stanley Clark thumps his bass there is a very low frequency transient that systems without adequate low end gloss over. Transients like these are common with many instruments and percussion. When they are present it adds greatly to the sense of "being there." 
Some of us want to stay pure analog I guess because it is tradition and very nostalgic and I understand that. But, there is so much you can do in the digital world that is virtually impossible on the analog side. The benefits can be simply amazing and IMHO outweigh the problems.

Nice system whart. I'd love to hear it some day. 
 

I use 2 RELs and adjusted them with test tones to match the main speakers...the tests tones really were a starting point to let me know where the main speakers drop off and my trusty ears do the rest of the evaluation. I did put "chicken head" knobs of both subs to more easily adjust the levels, but some recordings demand a little nudge in the bass...in either direction...I also have a Schiit Loki which I rarely employ (it's transparent when switched in or out of the system) but I'm glad it's there when I seem to need it...highly recommended.

I wish I had room for a couple of large subs.  I'm anxious to get started again with one, though.  My main speakers go down flat or so to 40hz, and I really feel there could be more "there" there on most tracks.  A recent NYC trip to some jazz clubs help convince me of that!

@erik_squires ....good eq, great source, happy with all the other parts involved, Yes.

Gain riding not required.  Sit. Stay. Listen. 😎

....but, every now & again....y'just Gotta'. ;)

redwoodaudio, Now you are on to something! You can get that kick ass bass at home. You are missing it for two reasons. Speakers are specified in an anechoic chamber at 1 meter, not in a room a 3 meters. Most speakers start losing it at 80 Hz or higher!  And, of course they do not go low enough so you are missing all the low frequency transient information you get at a live performance. I have seen Dave Holland 3-4 times at our local jazz club. His Quartet records like Not For Nothing and Prime Directive are recorded with his exact stage set up. His bass is beautifully detailed so, I frequently use these discs to evaluate bass.
To get the best result with less farting around you need at least two subs, 12" or larger, up against a wall or better yet in corners, digital bass management like with the MiniDSP unit, amplifiers greater than 1000 watts into 2 ohms with a damping factor higher than 500 (I use QSC commercial units) and passive subs. Passive subs are very inexpensive if you can build your own. Parts Express (Dayton) has some excellent kits and their sub drivers are some of the best. They make drivers for a lot of other brands. Dayton's own drivers are such a good value because they are not marked up two or three times. Check this out https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-15-Ultimax-Subwoofer-and-Cabinet-Package-300-7097  These are a breeze to build. If you decide to go this route message me and I'll be happy to help you get the best results. The only tricky part is putting a finish on them. This can be done professionally if you are queasy about it. If you prep the cabinet correctly it is not that expensive and you can have a piano finish put on them which looks killer. 

You can inform your dealer in 2003 a Digital Drive servo subwoofer was introduced which allowed detailed automatic and manual frequency interaction with a main speaker system. The accompanying six customizable frequency presets may have satisfied his concerns.
By 2011 the software was expanded to a Plus version.

The main speakers are responsible for analog playback to the point where their design begins its low frequency roll off.
At the beginning of the speakers roll off the digital software used by these subwoofers allows the user to begin designing an optimized crossover region using a Frequency Response and Parameters tool that makes multiple adjustments of Individual Parametric Filter EQ, Parametric Filter Frequency and level, Q (Bandwidth) Parametric filter, and gain all by using a simple visual drag and drop while listening. 
The result is, for the most part, an unnoticeable crossover and a sub frequency presentation that more closely matches the main speakers low frequency presentation. 

Since these initial equalization settings are subtly blending with the main speakers its suggested they be used on all six presets down to the frequency the user would like to increase, flatten, or decrease bass gain to accommodate the rooms demands and/or the music to the users personal taste.  

These software adjustments allow a blending in of multiple crossover parameters rather than a typical subwoofers hard crossover setting at which point the basic sub simply turns on at its full predetermined gain which may or may not match the media being played. Possibly leading your dealers complaint regarding subwoofers.

I don't have a problem with applying EQ. 

Using the subwoofer's level adjustment or anything else though.... Ugh.

@mijostyn - for now, not doing the DIY thing, but I am curious… maybe someday

@m-db - what is this software you describe?

I have had excellent results with setting up my new pair of REL carbon subs using Anthem STR integrated with ARC room correction. I tried the High level connection but I am much more please using the bass management in my integrated amp. It is not only about the crossover of the subs but also how it aligns with the roll off of your main speakers. My Focal Sopra 3s go down to 30Hz which is also where the subs start to fade but the bass is much better overall by setting my speakers to crossover to the subs below 75hz. I believe a Bass Management/DSP system is very helpful in getting the sub integration right.