DAC/Streamer/PreAmp

Aurender A-units, Auralic Altair, Rose 150B, DCS Bartok. Some of these much cheaper than your 10-20K budget. Actually there are a lot of them, and you will get all sorts of suggestions from this forum. Have fun researching and shopping.

Are you open to tubes? Your tastes would certainly point in that direction.  Also, do you have stored music you need to play through a server or are you ok just streaming through something like Qobuz or Tidal?

@soix, I haven't really purchased or ripped stored music.  Yet.  I will be streaming more than anything else.  I am open to tubes so a Lampizator or the like will work.

I have also looked at the Grimm MU2, Esoteric, Weiss DAC502.  I am trying to use you alls extensive knowledge to narrow my search to then try to get an in home demo.

@dmaddox77 a good integrated like the Pass Int250 (for that size room you need power) would be a nice match with the Focals. Hard to find used but given time and patience, possible. 
If you don’t need Roon, streamers with decent UI are Aurender and Auralic. With the latter you may be slightly on the brighter side sonically. Lumin U2 is a good choice but the UI is not great…you will need Roon because used on its own the Lumin does not have a user friendly interface. 

Split budget down the middle for streamer and DAC. Or get a one box solution. More flexibility with separates. 

Funny you mentioned Lampi because that’s exactly why I asked about tubes as Lampi DACs have a rep for having a huge, voluminous 3D soundstage. Then I’m thinking you want a preamp that can just convey all that goodness without either squelching it nor overdoing it to make things overly ripe, and the Backert Rhumba Extreme 1.4 came to mind as it also throws a big stage but won’t overly color things, and the tubes last forever. Last, I’d hop on this Innuos Pulsar streamer that incorporates Innuos’ latest thinking and technology and comes with their Sense app that gets top reviews for both sound and usability, which puts it in pretty rare air as many others are compromised in one way or another. Here’s a pristine used unit that’s 31% or $2500 off the $8k retail price. Cha CHING!

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650067155-innuos-pulsar-streamer/

And you’re right — I did have a lotta fun with this and hope it’s at least somewhat useful. Best of luck in your quest!

Definitely separates.

If I was doing it.

Aurrender Streamer N200. I definitely recommend Aurrender streamers, the more I listen to different models vs the competition the more impressed I am. This is a key component. This is a really important component. Do not under invest.

Used Audio Research DAC 9 DAC or used Berkeley Alpha 3. There are lots of good DACs available in the market. Given the natural sound you want. Not Weiss.

Audio Research Preamp used Reference 3 or higher. Heart of the system, you want a top notch preamp. One of these will be with you for decades unless you upgrade.

You mentioned Grimm. I use a Grimm MU1 and a Lampizator GG3 and achieve great soundstage and the midrange you like, but doesn’t fit the budget you have set now.

The grimm includes a Roon core (I think you have to use it). So is roon a go or no go?

The GG3 has the latest digital core and uses a DHT pre stage which I think is a huge advantage over pentodes. YMMV.

Jerry

@carlsbad2, I am still haven't decided about Roon.  If it is that good and user friendly I would have to consider it.  Budget is always a moving target.

@ghdprentice I do not want to underspend or overspend, but will pay up for quality and great sound.

@soix thank you for the recommendation.  I have spent a lot of time looking at Lamli and the Rhumba Line Stage.  Now just need to make a decision on all these great recommendations.

The Moon 791 might be worth considering as a tidy single unit solution. 

Here is a video on ROON walk through

A few DACs have a preamp built in to be wired directly into an amp, and most DACs included in the preamps are usually substantially sonically subpar to stand alone DACs.  Hegel H600 and Aesthetix Mimas both have very good optional DACs, but they’re both integrated.

Hi, I can only speak for the DCS Bartok (non-Apex)as someone has mentioned. I was becoming disillusioned with separates because you constantly upgrade with increasingly underwhelming results. I borrowed my friend's Bartok and it lifted my system to a new level completely. I bought it off him! - he then purchased the Rossini. I am very happy with it and it matches the rest of my system in price and performance. 

I only listen to Qobuz, rest of my kit is; PS Audio BHK 300's monos, Kef Reference 5 speakers and I too have a pair of S812 subs.

I must add though that the Bartok does not have any RCA inputs 

Hope this helps, good luck Mark

I add my voice to the separate crowd.  You have enough budget for a great preamp, DAC, and streamer.  Streaming is still evolving, and if you want to upgrade as things change you don’t want to be tied into other components that you don’t want to change.  Saving space doesn’t seem to be a consideration because you are planning to go to mono block amps.  I would get a tubed preamp

I like the concept of a one box solution as well (footprint, simplicity)

• Linn Hub edition DSM…lots of options for DAC as well as phone stage 
• Moon 791 even has a phon stage

Ine box reduces system matching as well as reduces interconnects, power cables, etc. 

I prefer to simplify when possible - though it does compromise future flexibility. Therefore I would use a well respected manufacturer who supports their products beyond when they are no longer sold. 

Following, and curious to know the groups feelings on the Bluesound Vault 2i.

While it “may” need an outboard DAC, it streams most anything, it connects to your NAS for your library, it rips your CD collection and stores 2tb of music in multiple file formats, including FLAC, operates at a bit depth of 16-24, with a sampling rate of 32-192khz. S/N ratio of 110db, and operates on Microsoft and Apple OS’s, and integrates with most any play platform. A Bluetooth interface.

Seems it ticks all my boxes for a $1300 price tag.

Seems that I could now easily convert my 1500 CD collection to FLAC files.

Am I missing much in considering this?

@dmaddox77 

Technics SLG700M2 (SACD Player+DAC+Streamer combo unit)

Their remastering feature, etc in this unit tends to beat out the separate dacs and streamers ( in execution of sonics) on all kinds of recordings for your budget..plus you get a very nice SACD player with it.

Price = $3500

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_133SLG7M2S/Technics-SLG700M2-Silver.html

Schiit Kara preamp 

Price = $700

https://www.schiit.com/products/kara

Schiit Tyr Monoblocks times 2

Price: $3200

https://www.schiit.com/products/tyr

Subtotal = $8400

Budget = $20, 000

Balance = $11,600

Buy Borresen X3 speakers, Price = $11,000

Get rid of Focal Soupra. Use recouped cash to buy as many 'official studio master' hires albums from Qobuz as possible. Download files and put them on your nas for permanent ownership. Streaming the actual hires files from a nas is the highest fidelity of listening possible. Use the regular Tidal, Qobuz, etc just to discover music.

Scope creep is real

Scope creep is real

- Pay your taxes, don’t set yourself up for audits. 

- Consult with a therapist for controlling ocd audiophilia symptoms.

- Hit the gym.

- Don’t vote for the Orange Lard Baboon.

I’m really jonesing to hear a set of the Borresen X3 myself. 

I would suggest the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC ($13,500).  It is a Roon endpoint but you would need a Roon core (Nucleus or NUK). It has a very good digital volume control. But best of all, the sound is simply the best at anywhere near, or way beyond, its price. 

I will stick with the "plug and play" comment. This unit can stream Qobuz and is also Roon ready in case you decide to go that route. Might have to look in the used market to get it under $20K

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no-519-audio-player-digital-streamerplayercddacpreamp

There is also a Levinson No526 supposedly NIB over on usaudio for a steep discount.  That leave plenty of room for a nice separate Streamer.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650069654-mark-levinson-no-526/

I would say a Lumin P1. It is all of those things. Plus it has LEEDH volume control for great sound at any volume. Also it has an analog RCA/ XLR input. The power supply is linear. They say it is pretty close to the Lumin X1. I was setting up anti skate at a friends house yesterday and his P1 sounded amazing. Try to listen first to see if you like the sound signature with your Focals. I just heard the new Borensen speakers at Next Level Audio. Pretty amazing sound for $5500 with stands. Jays Audio Lab had a private event. They are supposed to be at AXPONA this year. 

I’ve been looking to replace my Chord Dave DAC for under $25K. I’ve had home auditions of the Rockna Signature, Mola Mola Tambaqui, DCS Bartok, and DCS Rossini APEX. In my system the Dave and Tambaqui are more a like than different. The Bartok(non-APEX) mask details and the Rossini APEX is too bright in my system. In my system, the Rossini has better separation of instruments, wider and slightly deeper soundstage than the aforementioned DACs, but my wife said she had a headache after several songs from the brightness. Next up will probably be a Ideon Ion DAC.

The Rossini produced the most significant differences between all of the DACs that I’ve listened to, but there still isn’t a night and day difference between any of them.

The Lumin P1 would be my first choice for a preamp/streamer/dac. Mainly because the P1 does fibre streaming and the Lumin is amaziing for streaming.

OP …” I do not want to underspend”.

i recommended separate components for streamer and DAC. Many people believe that the streamer function doesn’t matter… at least as much as the DAC. This is not true. The streamer like a turntable cartridge makes a huge difference. By not underspending, that would be going cheap on the streamer and putting most of your money into the DAC.

….”but will pay up for quality and great sound.”
 

Ok, in that case I change my recommendation. I recommend the Aurrender W20SE streamer ($22K) and the Berkeley Alpha Reference 3 DAC ($22K). I own the former and have had the latter in my system for a week. Both top notch performers and well worth their price for the sound quality.

As you asked offline about the Backert Rhumba Extreme and ARC preamps I’ll share this review that compares the Rhumba vs. the ARC LS17SE, which was priced $2k less at the time but just as an indication of the different sound characteristics…

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0919/Backert_Labs_Rhumba_Extreme_13_Preamplifier_Review.htm
 

As I mentioned, the ARC REF5 SE is an incredible pre and at a different level entirely from the LS17SE, and as you can get one of these used for around $6k that would absolutely have to be in the conversation.  Here’s one that may still be available…

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ba7e-audio-research-ref-5-se-silver-preamp-complete-tube

The newer Rhumba Extreme 1.4 goes for $8500 new so a pretty dear premium to a used REF5 SE, but if you can find a used Rhumba 1.3 Extreme and can deal with only one fully balanced input (versus 2 on the 1.4) you’re looking at a nice discount to a used REF5 SE.  Personally this would be a tough decision and would likely come down to which sound profile most closely matches your personal preferences so read the reviews.  The good news — there’s no way in hell you’d go wrong either way, so there’s that.

 

deep_333

507 posts

02-06-2024 at 10:01am

Scope creep is real

 

- Pay your taxes, don’t set yourself up for audits.

- Consult with a therapist for controlling ocd audiophilia symptoms.

- Hit the gym.

- Don’t vote for the Orange Lard Baboon.

what’s an audio discussion without politics…incredible this gets mixed into the conversation 

@jbuhl  +1

Simaudio Moon 791 Preamp/DAC/Network player is $16k.  It also has a built in phono section that is supposed to be quite good.  Their Mind2 app is also supposed to be quite good.  And if you run - or want to run - Roon, just get a sonicOrbiter from Small Green Computer as your server for <$2k and you’ve got a killer setup.  Matching Moon amp down the road if you’re feeling it.  Life is good!

Thank you all for your help.  I am having a lot of fun building my system.  I enjoy researching gear, and enjoy listening to music even more.

Look at the T+A MP3100HV. They also have cheaper models. Top notch German engineering.

This is a tough one as it is so open ended.  There are preamps with built in DAC/Streamers (AGD, Bricasti) and then there are DACs with volume controls and streamers built in (many others).
 

My experience is that for a single unit, preamp with built in DAC is best performer.  This is because the full preamp seems to work better with power amps.  The AGD Andante and Bricasti M12 are this.  I am certain there are many others but these two sound particularly good.

There are a million other combos that could be suggested out of three separate parts.  Difficult to even narrow down

Did you look into Trinnov?

@benanders, I have.  I am.considering one for my 7.4.4 movie room in the future.  I want this to be strictly 2 channel system.

Understood, @dmaddox77 . I too keep 2 Ch / “theater” separate. No such convenient DSP AIO’s for stereo-only that I’m aware of. Too bad, since that could be really handy for streaming to one MLP.

@benanders one thing I have come to realize is my wife loves listening to music, so she allows me to turn up the system.  The movie room is closed off, so openi g the door just doesnt do it for me or my wife.  The game room though opens up to the entire house, so the sound is great.  The 2 channel will be in the game room.

@dmaddox77 that is helpful info. No, I would not suggest DSP in your use case; mine is similar and a couple DSP implementation trials seemed unproductive for my goals. My stereo is similarly a whole-(shared-with-spouse)-household feature, and formatted accordingly.

I only listened to Sopra 3’s in one large dedicated room, I liked them.

If I were of your use case (and I was), I’d make sure whatever streamer I land on has software/interface format my wife can happily use before committing (to the streamer, not to the spouse as that’s already been done). I knew I didn’t want her saying the stuff to the streamer app that she used to tell early versions of iTunes run on a PC. Those were hard times… 😜

On a Streamer/DAC unit what format does the streamer hand off the signal to the DAC. Is it USB, SPDIF or something better, as they're in the same enclosure. Eliminating this signal transfer seems to be an advantage over separates. 

@benanders, I have. I am.considering one for my 7.4.4 movie room in the future. I want this to be strictly 2 channel system.

I would never discredit a high quality multichannel prepro for 2 channel listening. They are designed for the pros/integrators (though they have been made available for the average end user these days), i.e., require you to go through a steep learning curve and have significant knowledge base as a end-user. But, if you are able to overcome that learning curve, it is the best tool that exists for 2 channel listening in execution.

Here are some tools that it would offer depending on the brand you went with....Pristine bass management (if you chose that route) or all kinds of tools for blending in a sub. Ask a dude to blend in one subwoofer with a purist preamp. He will struggle. Now, ask him to blend 2 subs. He will struggle a whole lot more. The prepros also offer very accurate time alignment, PEQ, parameters to modulate the soundfield to taste, etc (an endless number of tools), cater things for your specific room and your ears.

Multichannel gear falls apart when you stuff 9 power amps in the same chassis (i.e. the receiver!). But, a prepro processor designed from the ground up with no amp channels, paired with a high end "audiophile" power amp will fix that type of nonsense. The purists fiddled with a barrel bottom receiver and claimed that multichannel gear sounds like buttcheeks next to their supposedly great 2 channel purist gear.

For example, i own an engineering marvel of a prepro from yamaha called the CX-A5200. I also own their 10k purist preamp and a 20k Luxman preamp. If i paired a high end purist poweramp and subwoofers with the 3 above mentioned units and did side-by-side comparisons to dudes, the results (in execution) would be startling to such dudes.

It would be very hard for the average dummy designing/touting purist gear to design a prepro (It would be way too complicated for his wet noodle cranial compartment). Purist design philosophy is all about selling the same sht to the same group of disgruntled/unsatisfied customers over and over (keeping them disgruntled/handicapping them by removing all useful tools for sound reproduction in a room).

I like SOIX’s idea about the ARC Ref 5se. Make sure you get the SE. it’s worth the used $1k upgrade. I own one right now and it’s amazing. That being said I would still start with the Lumin P1. It does everything. My friend who owns it has it going into an ARC LS28 SE preamp. The great thing is because he has the LEEDH volume he can adjust the volume without touching the ARC preamp remote without degradation. So you start with a killer piece and later use it as a DAC/ streamer. The other reason I am considering this is my turntable setup is off to the side for easy access. Because this Lumin has a regular input say for my phono stage I can run it right into the lumin which would be connected to the REF 5 SE. I hope this helps. 

Another long time REF5se user / addict…. love it….

Love my Aesthetix Pandora DAC… you can get it w excellent volume control and it has the finesse and stones to drive a long XLR to amplifiers… They make 3 levels: standard, Signature and Eclipse. i have the Sig. Tube rolling a hoot in both the REF  ( 6550 only ) and the Pandora.

Enjoy the music and the quest OP……

@hsounds Roll a 60’s New Jersey Tung Sol black plate 6550 into the ARC and get the pre on HRS or equivalent isolation for a near religious experience…..

Tomic601, I have been keeping an eye out for the Tung Sol 6550 black plate. I just bought two NOS SED Winged C 6550. Very, very nice! Way better than EH or Sovtek. I was thinking about upgrading to the Ref 10 SE. I don’t feel that way anymore after the NOS tube. This is a note to the OP. Two people who love the $5k-$6k Ref 5 se. You will probably not be able to demo one. Don’t worry, you won’t need to. 

@hsounds ​​​​@tomic601 thank you both for the good information.  You have added more research to my list.

Gold Note is another good choice.  You could go with a DS-1000 Evo DAC/streamer that has a class A preamp stage, for only $7,500.  If/when you decide to go vinyl, Gold Note has 3 different, highly regarded phono preamps ranging in price from $2k to $11k.  And then, down the road, you have several nice choices for GN amps as well. 

Gold note has the top of the line PH1000 phono stage/line stage. It is a phono stage with a preamp built in. It’s $4k more than the regular phono. For another $2k I say get the ARC ref 5 SE. 

audphile1

 

deep_333

507 posts

02-06-2024 at 10:01am

Scope creep is real

- Pay your taxes, don’t set yourself up for audits.

- Consult with a therapist for controlling ocd audiophilia symptoms.

- Hit the gym.

- Don’t vote for the Orange Lard Baboon.

what’s an audio discussion without politics…incredible this gets mixed into the conversation 

He lives in their head, rent free.  Usually their comments or much more profane than this.

@audphile1 @jim2 

aah, jeez, I don’t know, why would anybody care that some moron is in a position to destroy the democracy we’ve managed to maintain for the last 235 years.  easy come, easy go I guess.  let’s just talk about expensive servers and streamers that do nothing.  carry on!

@mdalton 

The USA is a constitutional republic, not a pure democracy and that's a good thing.  As far as talking about servers and streamers... this is the dac-streamer-preamp forum so that's why.

This is an audio discussion, @mdalton  If you want to have a civil conversation about anything audio including servers and streamers that do nothing…guess you’re referring to the ones that are in need of repair…keep the politics out.

You’ve got an axe to grind. Take it somewhere else.