DAC/Streamer/PreAmp

Update:  purchased a Innuos Pulsar and sounds great.  The interface through Tidal is pretty good.

DAC:  I have access to purchase a Lampizator Baltic 3 or Atlantic TRP.  Are they both going to sound roughly the same, but the difference would be my ability to Tube roll and have more discretion on sound with the Atlantic TRP?  Or am I way off and one of those DACs are head and shoulders better?

PreAmp: waiting to buy DAC before picking a preamp.

Did you check out the SIMAUDIO NORTH line that just came out?

I have a 390 and have loved the integrated pre/streamer/dac! I run a room core in a different room but hard wired w Ethernet. Roon really works well in this type of setup.  Speakers are Dali Helicon 400mk2 and have some older Aragon monoblocks still.

I've been thinking about looking at the 791, though there is one below and one above that.

I've always thought the lumin stuff looked interesting, but have never heard it. 

Separates. 

Research  PS Audio, they have it all,quality and oh yes,quality... Just educate yourself about PA Audio before you buy...

The miniDSP SHD high fidelity preamplifier provides digital and analog performance on par with today’s highest performing amplifiers and speakers. The SHD combines high-definition streaming, Dirac Live processing and digital multi-channel crossovers and filtering.

Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer

@bcrosley  

That seems like a very well put together system - I'd like to hear it.  I listened to the new Amati G5 at a dealer, but the room and speaker placement were not good, so I I did not get a good impression of the speakers.  I had the original Amati Homage 20 years ago and regret selling them. 

I'd like to hear about the results if go direct from the MU2 to the Boulder 1160.  I'm waiting on delivery of a MU2 and wondering if I should get a preamp.   

To respond to your Question of why I suggest the Grimm MU & MU2 and what corresponding equipment I have:

I have had two configurations, one with the MU1 output into a MSB Discrete DAC and then just the MU2 as a Roon server, Streamer, DAC. My system consist of a VAC Master pre-amp, a Boulder 1160 power amp, a Thorens TD124 turntable, and  Sonus Faber Amati G5 floor standers. I have a Shunyata Altaira grounding system. Most connections are balanced (a must for the Grimm products). I found the MU1/MSB-DAC combo to be the best digital sound I have ever heard (until the MU2). The sound is very full, detailed, and especially not harsh. I then traded the MU1 and for the MU2 and found even a richer, low noise sound. I have not yet tried the MU2 preamp directly into my power amp since I have the VAC Master pre-amp which overlays everything with a very harmonic layer due to its tubes.

MBL has a new product, the C41 Network Player;

@bcrosley - welcome to the forum. I’d like to hear more about your comparison of the MU2 the MSB -- which version of MSB and what were the other system components?

Yeah, seems there have been a lot of threads about preamps lately, both here and WBF. It’s making me wonder if I should try out some preamps again. I thought it seemed like a good idea to simplify by going from tube separates to SS integrated, but maybe not.

@audphile1 + 1,000,000

I would recommend the Audio Research REF6 over the 5SE.  I use an MSB Discrete DAC with a Premier Power Base with the renderer module, and a solid state hard drive connected with CAT8 cable, all managed by Roon using an iPad next to my listening chair. It's a great setup.  To me, Roon is a critical component!

Naim Atom headphone edition

+1 @audphile1 

  There are so many forums for discussing politics.  I turn to hobbyist sites to get away from it.  Why do people think that they have to spread their political views into every nook and crannie of life

I use an Aurender A20. I would urge you to find a way to demo it in your home. I currently run it through a Luxman 509Z but also have used it as a preamp with an Ayre VX-5 Twenty and a Pass Labs XA-25. I am very happy with its performance in either scenario.

Easy answer: Grimm MU2. I have one, compared against MSB, better.

I had the Naim ND5 and LUMIN t3 side by side on a McIntosh MC7270 and C220, and much preferred the LUMIN unit.  (Esoteric system is using the same LUMIN application is their system too (just as information)).  Both we hooked up with XLR cable (´Orange ‘ LUNA).

LUMIN was more precise during classic musique, during Jazz music the brass was sounding more natural as well than the Naïm.

just an input, all ears have their taste ;o)

cheers

@koestner if you’re referring to the built in network renderer, I believe In the case of my Bricasti M3 it’s an internal I2S connection. It’s a Roon ready endpoint and I liked it better than the Lumin U1 Mini connected to the M3 via Audience AU24se+ USB cable. But the connection between external streamer and DAC is not as important as the streamer itself. With the Aurender N200 that I use now, the Bricasti inbuilt network renderer doesn’t come close in sound quality. I’ve hone back and forth several times. 

I asked this question a few days ago on this thread, but got no response.  I think it's an important point that needs to be discussed.

On a Streamer/DAC unit what format does the streamer hand off the signal to the DAC. Is it USB, SPDIF or something better, as they're in the same enclosure. Eliminating this signal transfer seems to be an advantage over separates. 

B.Audio dac one dpr ex is a good candidate also! elected best dac in last Munchen high end audio show. Amazing box all in one: dac, preamp, streamer, server compatible with Roon, Qobuz, Spotify

@koestner you’re right. I’m done with this 🤡 

back to streamers and dacs!

OMG!! Give it a break! I want to know about streamer DACs, but I have to read through all this bickering. Just agree to disagree, and let's get this discussion back on track. PLEASE.

Hey @deep_333 did anyone attack you here? 

Attacks on @deep_333 

that’s rich. Who attacked him and where? Provide an example. Or is your definition of attack is anything that isn’t aligned with your political beliefs and narratives? Just curious. 

lol!  yeah, sorry about that.  I just thought the attacks on @deep_333 were gratuitous.  He just made a joke about scope creep in response to another member.  It was funny.  

This sure did change subject quick.

@jim2 

For the record, I did not, and would never, use the word “crap”.  My last post was lightly edited (as in one word) by the moderators.  

The sad truth is that your rage prevents you and @deep_333 from thinking about anything else. It’s blinded you to it and permeates simple, daily life for you...even what should be a fun discussion here about a hobby. It’s a pitiful existence.

This hyperbole you type is inappropriate, but your rage prevents you from doing otherwise. I hope you can work thru it someday.

@jim2 , Aaaww, ain’t that cute? .Here,,,here,,,here’s a rage sample (whole lot more in stock out there...lots and lots with the burning crosses, tiki torches, etc 😁). Quit the rage, improve the sonics of your streamer/dac/preamp and start dancin...that’s what the audioforums are for...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iludfj6Pe7w

I served 7 different administrations during my career.  I was promoted to one of the most senior, non-political positions in the U.S. government by the Trump administration.  The Secretary of the Treasury in that administration thought I was pretty hot shit. (I thought he was unimpressive, and unethical at times.). But I was sworn to uphold the Constitution, and I did my job.  I disagreed with the political appointees frequently, and openly engaged them to change their direction when I thought they were wrong.  Even where they disagreed, they relied on me to implement their policies, and I did so, and effectively.  I was fortunate to be in a position where I never witnessed, or was asked to help with, anything illegal.  I did witness unethical behavior, but I also helped stop some.

@mdalton , Thank goodness you weren’t in the building when all these "luvin choir boys" showed up. It may not have been just Pence and Pelosi they wanted...

FYI, Treason Orange talks about all the "luv in the air" at the end of it. 😁

@jim2

Now see, that’s just trying to put other people in little boxes. We do that in audio, just as we do it in politics (religion, etc.). In the audio world, for example, if I raise measurements, I’m accused of only caring about measurements. Pretty absurd - after all I’m a tubes and vinyl guy, as far as you can get from a measurements guy. But it’s a convenient little box for somebody tries to put me in when we disagree about something so they can ignore my views.

Same occurs in politics. I served 7 different administrations during my career. I was promoted to one of the most senior, non-political positions in the U.S. government by the Trump administration. The Secretary of the Treasury in that administration thought I was pretty hot crap. (I thought he was unimpressive, and unethical at times.). But I was sworn to uphold the Constitution, and I did my job. I disagreed with the political appointees frequently, and openly engaged them to change their direction when I thought they were wrong. Even where they disagreed, they relied on me to implement their policies, and I did so, and effectively. I was fortunate to be in a position where I never witnessed, or was asked to help with, anything illegal. I did witness unethical behavior, but I also helped stop some.

So no, it’s not rage. Just as with my views on audio, I am very careful to be detached about my political views, rather than driven by emotion, or flawed analysis. And I’m data-driven where data can help me sort thru those views. There was absolutely zero hyperbole in anything I posted. Just the facts. Nice try though.

mdalton

160 posts

02-07-2024 at 10:12pm

@audphile1 @jim2

aah, jeez, I don’t know, why would anybody care that some moron is in a position to destroy the democracy we’ve managed to maintain for the last 235 years. easy come, easy go I guess. let’s just talk about expensive servers and streamers that do nothing. carry on!

The sad truth is that your rage prevents you and @deep_333 from thinking about anything else. It’s blinded you to it and permeates simple, daily life for you...even what should be a fun discussion here about a hobby. It’s a pitiful existence.

This hyperbole you type is inappropriate, but your rage prevents you from doing otherwise. I hope you can work thru it someday.

@audphile1 ​​@jim2 ​​@mdalton

Boys, here is the best bigly audiophile track to test the oran..I mean black background, organic sounding vocals, etc...At 2 mins onward is where you can see the soundstage really open up..

Go bigly or go home...and never stop dancin

https://youtu.be/r5B6IEAiwx4?si=3vrxc5MdxKRJKbyQ

+1 for Lumin. The build quality is outstanding, with great attention to detail. Designed to be compatible with a lot of different integration and control options. A wide range of features. And of course incredible sound quality. Plus super great support and continuous free firmware updates to add features and improve the experience.

I’m cool as Kool & The Gang.

but you…

@audphile1 

lol!  as long as someone agrees with you you’re cool!  

This is an audio discussion, @mdalton  If you want to have a civil conversation about anything audio including servers and streamers that do nothing…guess you’re referring to the ones that are in need of repair…keep the politics out.

You’ve got an axe to grind. Take it somewhere else. 

@mdalton 

The USA is a constitutional republic, not a pure democracy and that's a good thing.  As far as talking about servers and streamers... this is the dac-streamer-preamp forum so that's why.

@audphile1 @jim2 

aah, jeez, I don’t know, why would anybody care that some moron is in a position to destroy the democracy we’ve managed to maintain for the last 235 years.  easy come, easy go I guess.  let’s just talk about expensive servers and streamers that do nothing.  carry on!

audphile1

 

deep_333

507 posts

02-06-2024 at 10:01am

Scope creep is real

- Pay your taxes, don’t set yourself up for audits.

- Consult with a therapist for controlling ocd audiophilia symptoms.

- Hit the gym.

- Don’t vote for the Orange Lard Baboon.

what’s an audio discussion without politics…incredible this gets mixed into the conversation 

He lives in their head, rent free.  Usually their comments or much more profane than this.

Gold note has the top of the line PH1000 phono stage/line stage. It is a phono stage with a preamp built in. It’s $4k more than the regular phono. For another $2k I say get the ARC ref 5 SE. 

Gold Note is another good choice.  You could go with a DS-1000 Evo DAC/streamer that has a class A preamp stage, for only $7,500.  If/when you decide to go vinyl, Gold Note has 3 different, highly regarded phono preamps ranging in price from $2k to $11k.  And then, down the road, you have several nice choices for GN amps as well. 

@hsounds ​​​​@tomic601 thank you both for the good information.  You have added more research to my list.

Tomic601, I have been keeping an eye out for the Tung Sol 6550 black plate. I just bought two NOS SED Winged C 6550. Very, very nice! Way better than EH or Sovtek. I was thinking about upgrading to the Ref 10 SE. I don’t feel that way anymore after the NOS tube. This is a note to the OP. Two people who love the $5k-$6k Ref 5 se. You will probably not be able to demo one. Don’t worry, you won’t need to. 

@hsounds Roll a 60’s New Jersey Tung Sol black plate 6550 into the ARC and get the pre on HRS or equivalent isolation for a near religious experience…..

Another long time REF5se user / addict…. love it….

Love my Aesthetix Pandora DAC… you can get it w excellent volume control and it has the finesse and stones to drive a long XLR to amplifiers… They make 3 levels: standard, Signature and Eclipse. i have the Sig. Tube rolling a hoot in both the REF  ( 6550 only ) and the Pandora.

Enjoy the music and the quest OP……

I like SOIX’s idea about the ARC Ref 5se. Make sure you get the SE. it’s worth the used $1k upgrade. I own one right now and it’s amazing. That being said I would still start with the Lumin P1. It does everything. My friend who owns it has it going into an ARC LS28 SE preamp. The great thing is because he has the LEEDH volume he can adjust the volume without touching the ARC preamp remote without degradation. So you start with a killer piece and later use it as a DAC/ streamer. The other reason I am considering this is my turntable setup is off to the side for easy access. Because this Lumin has a regular input say for my phono stage I can run it right into the lumin which would be connected to the REF 5 SE. I hope this helps. 

@benanders, I have. I am.considering one for my 7.4.4 movie room in the future. I want this to be strictly 2 channel system.

I would never discredit a high quality multichannel prepro for 2 channel listening. They are designed for the pros/integrators (though they have been made available for the average end user these days), i.e., require you to go through a steep learning curve and have significant knowledge base as a end-user. But, if you are able to overcome that learning curve, it is the best tool that exists for 2 channel listening in execution.

Here are some tools that it would offer depending on the brand you went with....Pristine bass management (if you chose that route) or all kinds of tools for blending in a sub. Ask a dude to blend in one subwoofer with a purist preamp. He will struggle. Now, ask him to blend 2 subs. He will struggle a whole lot more. The prepros also offer very accurate time alignment, PEQ, parameters to modulate the soundfield to taste, etc (an endless number of tools), cater things for your specific room and your ears.

Multichannel gear falls apart when you stuff 9 power amps in the same chassis (i.e. the receiver!). But, a prepro processor designed from the ground up with no amp channels, paired with a high end "audiophile" power amp will fix that type of nonsense. The purists fiddled with a barrel bottom receiver and claimed that multichannel gear sounds like buttcheeks next to their supposedly great 2 channel purist gear.

For example, i own an engineering marvel of a prepro from yamaha called the CX-A5200. I also own their 10k purist preamp and a 20k Luxman preamp. If i paired a high end purist poweramp and subwoofers with the 3 above mentioned units and did side-by-side comparisons to dudes, the results (in execution) would be startling to such dudes.

It would be very hard for the average dummy designing/touting purist gear to design a prepro (It would be way too complicated for his wet noodle cranial compartment). Purist design philosophy is all about selling the same sht to the same group of disgruntled/unsatisfied customers over and over (keeping them disgruntled/handicapping them by removing all useful tools for sound reproduction in a room).

On a Streamer/DAC unit what format does the streamer hand off the signal to the DAC. Is it USB, SPDIF or something better, as they're in the same enclosure. Eliminating this signal transfer seems to be an advantage over separates. 

@dmaddox77 that is helpful info. No, I would not suggest DSP in your use case; mine is similar and a couple DSP implementation trials seemed unproductive for my goals. My stereo is similarly a whole-(shared-with-spouse)-household feature, and formatted accordingly.

I only listened to Sopra 3’s in one large dedicated room, I liked them.

If I were of your use case (and I was), I’d make sure whatever streamer I land on has software/interface format my wife can happily use before committing (to the streamer, not to the spouse as that’s already been done). I knew I didn’t want her saying the stuff to the streamer app that she used to tell early versions of iTunes run on a PC. Those were hard times… 😜

@benanders one thing I have come to realize is my wife loves listening to music, so she allows me to turn up the system.  The movie room is closed off, so openi g the door just doesnt do it for me or my wife.  The game room though opens up to the entire house, so the sound is great.  The 2 channel will be in the game room.