DAC for Aurender N200

I’d second or third the recommendation of the Bricasti M1. I’ve been using this DAC for years because of its detailed but organic sound. Just as importantly, Bricasti really stands behind their stuff and the reason I’ve had mine for 8 years is their upgrade path. In the time I’ve had it, Bricasti has offered upgrades from free software upgrades, to power supply, Roon, and even a processor swap. Some I did myself and some I sent the unit back for. When I did the Roon upgrade, they swapped the whole back panel to add ethernet inputs. I had the unit back, VA to MA, to VA in 2 days. Remarkable! Used M1s are commonly available in the OP’s price range. I bought mine used and Bricasti treats me the same as an original owner.

if coax sounds better than USB it means, in most cases, the DAC clock isn’t as good as the clock in the transport/streamer.

@hickamore I have compared the N200 via stock USB vs. via SPDIF using DH Labs digital cable. Yes the coax sounds a bit softer and it may appear to sound slightly more natural at first but the soundstage collapses in comparison and the dynamics are subdued. I haven’t used anything fancier than the DH Labs coax because I saw no point in it - USB sounds more resolving, more dynamic and destroys the coax in soundstage. I use Bricasti M3 DAC and it has a really nice DDS clock that the engineers at Bricasti optimized for their DACs.
I’ve upgraded to AQ Diamond initially and just moved from AQ to Stealth USB after comparing several USB cables. YMMV but you should experiment and determine for yourself in your system what works best for you

@hickamore It will depend on the cables you are using and your personal sonic preferences. As you likely know, SPDIF leverages the Aurender's internal clock and then gets reclocked by the DAC 200's internal clock, while the USB chain only uses the DAC 200 clock.

In my experience, I've found Coax to be more organic and harmonic sounding unless using a very high quality USB cable. Personally, being spoiled with great audio, I've only LOVED the Final Touch Sinope and Synergistic Research SRX USB cables in terms of USB, and I've otherwise largely been a fan of SPDIF. If you want maximum detail and a crisper, snappier sound, USB may be more your cup of tea, but it often comes at a slight expense of jitter and loss of midrange magic. If you are maxing out the chain with quality power conditioning and cabling, then Coax can deliver excellent dynamics and detail as well.

Of course, SPDIF is also limited in the rate of DSD that can be used (DSD64, and at times DSD128), whereas USB can deliver up to DSD 1024. USB can also deliver PCM up to 768, whereas Coax typically maxes out at 192. That said, the human ear is unable to perceive anything greater than 192, with most not even being able to discern differences greater than 96KHz.

@blisshifi Is USB connection superior to coax in this pairing? And would you advise a DDC between?

Many have already touted the synergy between the N200 and the T+A DAC 200 on this thread. I’ve spoken about the pair many times on this forum. In my opinion, they are simply wonderful together.

Also, not only do they sound great, but given similar form factors, they also look great together.

The Terminator 15th or TPlus and the N200 make a very nice combo as already mentioned a few times.  Not a bad value for us crazy’s either 🤪. I run mine with USB (no DDC to take advantage of I2s), but I’m thinking of jumping ship and going with an Innuos Pulsar.  The Pulsar has just been released with different output modules, one of which is I2s with a built in reclocker.  I’ve compared the Pulsar (with USB) to the N200 and actually like the Pulsar more.  I’ve found it to be even quieter with better staging and imaging and by the time you eliminate the need for a DDC and additional cables, cost wise they’re very close.  With the I2s module it should hopefully be better yet.

@vthokie83   I think you got a chance to hear what I was talking about. Term 15th is a   T+, so essentially the same. It really works well together with the N200. I have the Hermes between them to go up another step with clock sync and I2s.

I've heard the Aurender N200 with a Denafrips Terminator Plus R2R DAC, and an N10 with a Chord Hugo in other people's systems. I also have had the N10 and N200 in my system with a Denafrips Pontus II DAC. I must admit that to my ears, R2R DACs are my preference.

I did not enjoy the N10 with the Chord DAC, too bright and sibilant for me.....though I could see it being a good pairing in a "dark" system. I have found the same with other Chord DACs.

The N200 with a Denafrips Terminator Plus was absolutely brilliant, more detailed and revealing; but with all of that Denafrips R2R magic.....fun, dynamic, engaging, involving, enjoyable. I could live with that pairing without hesitation. The new Denafrips Terminator 15th at $6,100 is basically a Terminator Plus, and would probably be a good comparison as well.

In my system I really could not tell much difference between the N10 and the N200, both were wonderful with the Pontus II.....but nowhere as nice as the N200 & Terminator Plus combo my friend has. I did not have the Denafrips Iris DDC at the time, so I cannot comment on how that would've changed the demo if any.

@fthompson251 Never posted mine because doing so would be of no value to anyone -- it's a weird room neither worthy nor capable of replication. Also, because I know so little compared to the many experts here, I offer advice only on "beginner" questions, so it doesn't matter "where I am coming from." Your setup, on the other hand, would be very instructive as it is replicable. What you & I share is an affinity for Aurender, Coda, Legacy, Denafrips gear and their potential synergies.

@hickamore   What is your system, It isn't ;listed in virtual systems. Sounds like we are close!

@vthokie83 Seems @fthompson251 has essentially the same setup I do (Aurender-Coda-Legacy), so it makes sense that I start with the Denafrips rig offered by @audioman58. Just hope he is still selling these when my left ear has been fixed so I can hear the differences. Terminator had dropped off my short list after the Vinshine fiasco, but learning about Audioman58's dealership has brought me back. (That's assuming product support is still available in USA -- though my current DAC went to Canada for repair when under warranty).

@vthokie83 Thanks. 25 years ago, I moved the equipment into a dedicated room I carved out of a 14 x18 corner of our basement. I was working long days and hours and wanted a place to escape after a tough day in the biz and not bother the shared common area. Ceiling height is not ideal but over many years of learning I worked on it and kept making it better. Most changes have been made in the past 2 years. It’s not a flashy room, it looks like an unfinished basement and I call it the dudgeon. The past 3 years I have significantly upgraded my equipment to where I am and I am now very happy with the results. I did upgrade twice buying 2 DACs and 2 sets of speakers but the rest was one and done. All cabling, PC’s etc. are also new/updated. So thank you very much.

Fred,

I thought you did, that's a really nice system for sure.

A couple of observations. I did not realize how much room treatment you had, and I did not realize the Legacy speakers were so big.....nice nice nice.

+1 @vthokie83  I have this combo, I am over the moon happy with it now that I have over 500 hours on it. Clock sync feature too. I listen for hours every day.

Audioman58 currently has the Denafrips Terminator 15th AND the Denafrips Hermes DDC combination for sale at $6,095 until Christmas. Basically a $9,000 Terminator Plus and a $1,300 Hermes DDC.....if I were ready and had the funds right now, I'd pull the trigger on that combo.

@hickamore, if I was looking for a DAC to pair with an Aurender N200 I’d seriously look at the Chord Dave. 

I use a musetec 005.  Wonderful combination.

@adasdad Original question was specifically directed to other users of Aurender N200 with experience of various DACs connecting via USB. Got multiple hits for ARC Ref9, T+A DAC200, Denafrips Terminator 15, Bricasti M3. Yes I want musicality, but specifically also a more convincing soundstage and richer instrumental timbres. Already got a shiny powered box that looks just fine. Want a better one with OXCO. 

@hickamore, which of the DACs that have been mentioned attract your attention the most? Are you looking for sonic accuracy, musicality, reference quality neutral presentation, or a shiny powered box that weighs 20lbs sitting somewhere near the rest of your gear?

@adasdad Right, that is where this thread originated. I have researched every DAC mentioned, about 30 of them, and compiled my short list. Plan is to audition those available new within my budget, and if unsatisfied, try those on used market offering quick turnaround in case of dissatisfaction. That said, the bar is pretty low for audible improvement on my existing "legacy" DAC.

@hickamore, my suggestion would be to audition the best DAC that you can afford and that sounds good to you. Streamers don’t mean a thing unless they’re sending the bits to an equivalently capable DAC. 

@hickamore 

I think that’s the way to go. My best set up was a Rogue RP7 w/upgraded tubes and a pair of top of the line Odyssey Kismet monos. Only had one source so figured it was overkill .

sold everything and bought a Coda CSiB integrated. A very fine integrated but did not compete with my previous set up. 

Seems like this topic pops up every few weeks so I'll toss my Canor, DAC 2.10 into the mix. For $4K it's is as good if not better than all but the very hiend Mola Mola, Berkeley, DCS and Meitner pieces. I listened to a bunch in the $3-$7500 range and the Canor was superior in almost every way to the others including Weiss, PS Audio, Benchmark, etc. The separation of musical instruments in the soundstage is what floored me. Zero grain, no digital remanence whatsoever. I am partial to tube DACs especially in a highly resolving setup and this Canor has been a terrific addition to my system. Definately worth a demo. Just my experience...

I already had a CEC DA5 as my DAC, which went perfectly with my CEC TL5 CD transport. I then went the 'whole hog' with digital and purchased the Aurender N200. I couldn't be happier with the N200/ DA5 combo via usb. Not to say that there are better alternatives but I'm too busy enjoying the music to experiment! :-)

cheers, Paul 

@jimboman I use AQ Diamond and it sounds very good with the Bricasti. Good luck and keep me posted. 

@audphile1 

I’ve got a Wireworld starlight Platinum 8 and an AQ Diamond for USB.  Will start with those  thanks again for the advice and encouragement  

Apologies to everyone for hijacking thread…don’t have ability to DM at the moment  :-)

best, JAMES

@jimboman check your messages I replied there. I would bet a good USB would be better than AES but worth trying. Good AES not sure…haven’t tried anything recently except DH Labs which was decent. 
 

@audphile1  

thanks for the DM.  Yes, it’s the $2500 M3H unit in LA.

the seller doesn’t think it has an MDx board in it…but either way, I’m looking forward to adding it to my system.

does yours have the Ethernet board? I have a Lumin U2, and am thinking of trying AES to compare with the dedicated USB output (on U2).

any recommendations for AES XLR cables?

many thanks.

JAMES

@benzman T+A Dac 200 ----> tube preamp ----> Class A SS amp?

I have never heard of any Sabre based Dac described as warm. What is the rest of your system?  Don’t sleep on the T&A Dac 200. Find one pre owned and check it out. Easy to listen to yet all the detail/resolution/transparency you need. Whole nother  level from the Bricasti M3 it replaced. 

@hickamore You might also consider their newest, cheaper device, the Metronome DSC Mini.

@stievus Thank you for the introduction to Le Dac2, one of the few new-to-me DACS mentioned here that checks all my boxes, including cosmetically.. Read up on it, including reviews which suggest I would prefer it to T+A Dac2. Impossible to guess what synergy it might have in my system, but If buying new and if trial is  offered, I could test with Terminator/Venus (R-2R for less $). (Though coming tariffs may confine all of us DAC-seekers to the US-made & used markets).

It surprises me that nobody mentioned as a candidate  Le Dac2 from the French company Metronome Technologie.

⬆️ A DAC with 24-bit 192KHz maxx resolution for $6K, that’s a hard pass for me!

Equally or perhaps better Non-oversampling (NOS) DAC to consider,

LTA Aero and Border Patrol DAC SE-I.

A head to head comparison is warranted before anyone thinking about chucking down $6K for any DAC out there! 

I'd throw in another vote for Mojo Audio Mystique X-24AM. An amazing dac!

Best wishes,

Don

@bikeboy52 

I’m in the same boat.  Let me know what you find out and I’ll do the same with you.

(Pontus ll to N200.)

@jonwolfpell that’s my PS Audio DSD MkI vs. Bricasti M3 results as well. No comparison. Especially in noise floor that’s pretty much the foundation for all other improvements over PS A.

I too am using a Pontus two with my N200 and can’t help feeling like there is a lot more potential in there that Im not unlocking . Like a lot of others here Im trying to figure out where I wanna go next with a new Dac.Any one know of a Dac lending library?

The only two DACS I’ve directly compared in my system are the PS Audio Direct stream Mark II & the Bricasti M1 Series II. It wasn’t close as the Bricasti was better in every way from build quality to sound quality. The Bricasti is built very well in n MA & sounds excellent w/ a dead silent, jet black background & very detailed & dynamic with no listening fatigue. I found the PS to be thin sounding in comparison & often noisy on some cuts. You may be able to find the Bricasti used for about .$9K but I suspect it’s the next level from most anything new near that price. Highly recommend!

Thanks to the many A'goners who weighed in on this. I will soon be making the best-informed device acquisition of my career.

@hickamore  NotVAT in USA, I bought mine from  @Audioman58 in the USA

we sell a  large number of dacs: naim, nad,chord,bricasti, aqua hifi, and a few others 

we recommend you look at an aqua hifi lascala for a number of reasons:

Extremely musical r to r design with a tube output stage:

unlike many r to r designs the lascala has incredible resolution while  having a lush midrange.

accepts high res pcm and dsd

is completely modular and upgradable so as technology improves the dac can evolve.

Dave and Troy

Audio Intellect NJ

aqua hifi dealer

The AudioMirror Tubadour V is <$8k and is an excellent tube DAC. 

I'm using my Aurender N200 with a Holo Audio May KTE DAC via USB and I'm very happy. I did try coaxial but thought the USB sounded better.

The following DACs are highly compatible with the Aurender N200’s capabilities in delivering high-resolution files and managing noise effectively.

R2R

• Denafrips Pontus 15th / Venus 15th – Highly regarded for natural, analog-like sound.
• Holo Audio Spring 3 (Level 2 or KTE) – Exceptional detail and tonal richness, suitable for audiophiles.
• MSB Discrete DAC – Modular design, excellent for upgrades; very high-end performance.
• Rockna Wavelight DAC – Smooth, organic, and precise sound reproduction.

Delta-Sigma chip based

• Chord Qutest / Hugo TT2 – Known for transparency and detail retrieval.
• Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ – Offers a neutral and detailed sound signature with a robust feature set.
• Benchmark DAC3 – Clean, accurate, and neutral presentation, ideal for reference listening.
• T+A DAC 200 – A hybrid approach delivering both precision and warmth.

Hybrid or Tube-based

• LampizatOr Amber 4 – Tube-based design for warm, lush sound.
• Audio Note DAC 2.1x – Purely musical with a minimalist approach.
• PS Audio DirectStream DAC MKii – FPGA-based, highly resolving and smooth sound.
• Weiss DAC502 – High-end DAC with precision and great functionality.
• LTA Aero DAC – Tube output stage with low output impedance

High-End (these might be over your budget but worth consideration one day you become rich

• dCS Bartók – Renowned for advanced technology and unparalleled soundstage.
• dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC – dCS flagship DAC
• Mola Mola Tambaqui – Compact, highly resolving, and extremely dynamic.
• Esoteric N-05XD – Matches the refinement of the Aurender N200  perfectly.
• Luxman DA-06 – Offers a smooth, musical presentation with excellent build quality

I’m really happy with using a good USB from my N200 to the Pontus ll. Though I must admit that I haven’t tried ABS/EBU.

I’m on the other end of this inquiry. I have a Bricasti M1SE and have been tire kicking for a streamer… pretty close to pulling trigger on an N200 but I swear somewhere I read the Bricasti is better with Ethernet rather than USB? Would love for someone to tell me that’s not true lol.

@lalitk  @audphile1 & others very helpful, many thanks. I always prefer the warm side for extended listening, whatever the genre. This tends to mean Class A amplification and/or tubes somewhere along the way.

@fthompson251 Does one pre-order the Terminator 15th direct from Denafrips since the Vinshine demise? How much VAT/other taxes?

Owing to uncorrectable hearing loss, the very top end is wasted on me. Which means audio budget is limited not only by finance, but by inability to hear the higher levels of refinement. Ear fungus, alas, is a real thing. Ate a hole in right eardrum 20 years ago, and now left as well. "Healing" means permanent scar tissue. But that's for another thread.
 

Absolutely love my Mojo Mystique EVO DAC with USB from a Bricasti M5.

Interesting thread to check out…https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/six-dac-comparison

@hickamore 

You got some good recommendations. Choosing a DAC to pair with the Aurender N200 depends on your sound preferences, system synergy and budget. The N200 is a high-quality streamer with excellent timing and transparency, so you’ll want a DAC that complements its strengths without introducing unwanted coloration.

I can make some recommendations based on my experience with different DAC’s and Aurender models I’ve owned over the years, 

Holo May KTE - It’s a R2R DAC with exceptional resolution and tonal balance. Its natural sound pairs well with the N200’s precision. You’re likely to hear deep soundstage, natural tonality, and excellent detail retrieval. 

LampizatOr Baltic 4 or Amber 4 - For their warmth and richness. I would only recommend a LampizatOr DAC if your rest of the system is Solid State and you feel it lacks warmth and musicality. 

dCS Bartók or Rossini  - Highly detailed, expansive and transparent. Personally, I wasn’t impressed due to its slightly dry texture and analytical sound. I have only heard non-Apex version. Not sure, if Apex version sounds more engaging?  

Master Fidelity NADAC D (formerly Merging Technologies NADAC) - I would choose this DAC for extreme transparency, wide soundstage and reference level detail. It strikes a perfect balance between smoothness and accuracy with a firm grip on musicality. 

Bricasti M1 SE or M3 - You get a refined, dynamic and detailed sound with its distinctive natural tonality.

If you’re aspiring to build an all ARC system, then DAC’9 with latest USB board would do just fine. I used to own DAC 9 and it’s a fine sounding DAC within ARC ecosystem. 

Whichever DAC you choose to go with, its Synergy with rest of your system is far more critical than any XYZ brand. 

Do you lean toward a specific type of sound, e.g., warm and lush, neutral and precise. Knowing that could help narrow down the choices further and not feel overwhelmed by plethora of available choices in DAC’s.