Cost effective power cables recommendations, low and high power
I recently watched a number of informative videos about AC cables for our systems. One by the Dutchman Hans Beekhuysen (sp?) was really very good and explained why they matter, even with so many miles of cheapo cable bringing power into our homes, it seems to be all about reducing and rejecting stray interference from a lot of juice passing through the cables to our componenets, and the effect this might have on nearby interconnects and so on.
So I thought I would ask for recommendations from users here on what power cables you use for amplifiers (higher power consumption) and other components like digital stuff or preamps and so on, what are you happy with and that seems to make a difference big or small.
I am not about to spend thousands (or even many hundreds) for power cables, so hopefully something in what we mere mortals who work hard to earn our money can typically afford. Well shielded, properly twisted and insulated cable that does the job well, without typical marketing bull or obscene prices and markups please!
This thread will immediately head into controversy, so I'll quickly convey my strategy.
I bought used Pangea cables -- the Pangea Audio AC-9SE MkII for my amps and the Pangea Audio AC-14SE MkII Power for my preamp, streamer, and DAC. All of these can be found used, especially if you're patient.
My reasoning: cables may or may not make a difference. I have a good but perhaps only moderately resolving system, so I don't want break the bank on cables nor do I want to be wondering if I am missing something. These cables, especially used, solved this question for me -- for now.
One caution: the AC-9 cables are kind of hard to wrestle with and you should consider how easy or hard they'll be to fit into your existing system setup.
The first aftermarket power cable I bought for my integrated amp was in the low $200's. I didn't hear any difference. The next one I bought was from the same maker, DH Labs. It was something like 20% off that month, plus another 10% off if you signed up for their emails, so somewhere around $450. I had serious second thoughts, since the first purchase seemed pointless. When it came and I hooked it up, I was stunned. My point is, I'm not sure if you'll gain much, if anything, with a few hundred dollars. Miller used to always recommend finding a used Synergistic Research Master Coupler for $200-300. Supposedly old, but very good.
@troidelover1499Before we start yet another long and tiring thread about the virtue of cables, may I suggest the OP simply check out the existig threads already on the site. You may also find the threat Couterfeit Chinese Cables enlighening. Many positive first hand results with some cheap power cords there. Just a suggestion.
Thank you all for the responses thus far. Just so I am crystal clear, I am not wanting to debate the benefit of power cables, I am asking users here what they have used that they have found cost effective and satisfying in their systems.
Sure, I will check out that other thread on counterfeits to see what was recommended. Cool.
I am not meaning to start another food fight, there is nothing gained doing that. I am just gonna buy some upgrade cables so I’m just polling the crew here.
Agree with @hilde45. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, the Pangea cords are well made and make a positive sonic improvement, but as he said, they're not the most flexible. Of course, that's true of many cords.
What is your equipment? Amplifiers are particularly sensitive to upgraded PC. Depending on the components you have, there may be an optimal brand and cost level to realize the maximum potential of your equipment.
In the case of all wires in high fidelity systems what they sound like will depend on your system. So in one system X brand sounds great in another X brand does not sound good.
Also, and for the life of me, I do not know why… but the character of an interconnect tends to be the same as the character of a power cord. Why they would sound similar is completely beyond me. This is just a casual observation by me. Perhaps others have different experiences.
A company that sells reasonably priced, well made 10 awg power cables for amps is ice age audio in Michigan. They use copper terminals (better conductor than brass) and you can get plain copper or silver plated. Very reasonalbe pricing. No snake oil. Jerry
Upgraded Power cables mattered in my system. The upgrade in audio performance slam and dynamics was immediate .
CARDAS CLEAR: integrated amp
CARDAS CLEAR REFLECTION: upstream digital source electronics
CARDAS GOLDEN REFERENCE: fm tuner
NOTE: stand-alone discrete power lines from the panel to the outlets (with upgraded outlet plugs) . If this necessary first power loom upgrade was missing, I probably wouldn’t invest as much in just the last sections alone.
Look into Signal Cable and the Zafino Cable line. Many happy customers here and you do not have to sell plasma to pay for them. Great quality and the hang with the big girls.
Suggest checking out Audio Art Cables , even the entry level cord at $200 will make a noticeable positive SQ improvement. Never found any difference between stock cords and those like Panega or Signal Cable
My first power cord upgrade was a Waudio cable that I picked up on Amazon for under $50. It made a nice improvement on my Pathos Classic One Mkiii. It didn't seem to do anything for my Maverick Audio TubeMagic D2 DAC, and actually seemed to do bad things to my SACD player. I ended up getting a longer one for the amplifier to help with routing (it's not super flexible) and moved the other two to the power conditioner and my home theater receiver. I picked up a used Pangea AC-XL14 for the DAC and can't say that I heard anything different.
For reference, I did hear a difference with I upgraded the op amps in the DAC and also with a recent tube roll, so it's proven that some things will result in audible changes, but it seems that power cords (at least at my level) are not one of them for me.
When Pangea first came out, I bought a few of their cords as they were supposedly half price from AA. After putting them in my system, the loss of dynamics was very obvious. I sent them back and went with all Shunyata power cords which have stayed in my system ever since.
You asked about my system. Presently I have Epos M22 (their top of the line floor stander from their heyday, had these forever and in my room they just work for me) and a Rel Storm 3 sub.
Amplifier is Naim Super Nait 2 with their flat cap and superline phono stage. I moved away from tubes several years back, had Music Reference amp for many years. Turntable is a Rega Planar 6 with Ania. Streamer is Innuos Zen Mini feeding a Schiit Gungir multibit. This digital set up was a recent acquisition, much improved over my Node 2i I had before that.
Cullen Cables have worked for me and I never have paid more than $130 for any of the several that I am using in three systems.
Also, +1 on the somewhat misleadingly named Counterfeit Chinese Cables thread. There are some Chinese non-counterfeit cables discussed there. I haven’t yet tried any of the power cables mentioned in that thread, but, after reading the thread, I did buy a Chinese Viborg XLR set for $80 that is impressing the hell out of me. Today, someone has posted in that thread that he bought a Chinese power cord at Amazon for about $40 and that he likes it better than the $500 cord it replaces. It’s a gamble, to be sure, but there are so many gambles in audio today, aren’t there? I have no particular use for a power cord right now, but, for $40, it’s a chance that I easily can justify taking.
AudioQuest NRG-4 from Power amp to AC outlet. Most noticeable improvement compared to other components.
The following have been used on different sources CDP, Streamers, Preamps. Can’t confirm noticeable improvements but just didn’t want to leave anything on the table for a minimal investment per component. I am a firm believer in the sum of all parts.
AudioQuest NRG-Y2 2-Pole C7
Shunyata Venom 3
Shunyata Venom V14
Audience Forte F3
Cardas Iridium
All are well made power cables with reasonable flexibility and under $200 available on Music Direct, The Cable Company, etc.
"Also, and for the life of me, I do not know why… but the character of an interconnect tends to be the same as the character of a power cord. Why they would sound similar is completely beyond me. This is just a casual observation by me. Perhaps others have different experiences."
You are not hallucinating. I’ve made similar observations. When "better stuff" is inserted into the musical and/or power path, my experience is that in many cases the sonic benefits are strikingly similar to other items that have a completely different "job description".
When I hear the phrase: "Don't want to spend alot of money", my translation is: "not yet convinced, and don't want to overcommit."
You're getting many expert opinions from people on this forum who really know their stuff. I would only add to this that you should take the time to audition cables in a price range above what you're currently expecting to spend. Its a good way to validate the performance of the cables in your price range -- or you might find the sonic improvements are well worth the investment. And, yes, consider upgrading the wall outlet(s).
I have to agree with @waytoomuchstuff. Best try some… even if you think they are out of your price range… then judge on their performance. It would be too easy to buy too cheap and confirm they don’t make a difference.
If you try a range and hear no difference you can dismiss the expensive ones.
The great thing about wires is that once you have invested in your components, you can make them sound much better with smaller incrementally investments… typically 10 - 20%. But of course your equipment has to be of a certain level and choosing the right cables that match your system is important.
I appreciate the advice to try more expensive power cables in addition to cheaper ones, on a return and refund basis. So I will need to figure out which ones to try. Zafino seems to have a pretty heavy restocking fee, on a cheap cable its no biggie but if I am trying a $800-1000 cable as you guys suggest I don’t really want to pay $150 just for a trial if it isn’t an improvement.
Even doing it this way, if the cheaper cable didn’t improve things, and neither did the expensive one, well then the comeback is hey there you didn’t pick right expensive cable!!! So that’s why I am trying to poll the good folks here which brands they have really have good luck with. Seems like ones that may be worth trying are older Shunyata Venom or Synergistic Master Coupler, if I can pick em up used then just resell if they don’t sound better.
If you get a used Shunyata Venom, I would recommend not getting anything before the "NR" Venom version generation.
You can buy the Zavfino top of the line "Dart" right now used for about $600 or so. And if it does not work, you can turn it around with little or no loss (and some shipping costs). No biggie. But I am confident it will work
@troidelover1499 since you’re a skeptic, your options are to either go with a new power cable or buy used to be able to resell to recoup your spend.
In both cases I recommend sticking with established brands (Audioquest, Nordost, Wireworld, DH Labs, etc.)
With new you have Music Direct and Upscale Audio who offer 60 day returning policy. In this case you’re bound to 1 - need to break in the new power cord (around 200hrs), 2 - pay retail if you end up keeping it or 3 - absorb the return shipping then head in whatever direction you decide on, back to stock cord or look for a used one.
Opting into “boutique bargain” brands like Zavfino, Audio Envy, Cullen, etc. will be a guessing game where you will get what you pay for, potentially not going to be able to return due to restocking fees and end up wondering how an Audioquest power cord would sound like with your amp.
Also, the recommendation above about reading the Counterfeit Chinese Cables thread should be limited to just reading that…I wouldn’t follow any of those recommendations for many reasons.
Check out Empirical Design power cables—they have ED 416 for high current and ED 316 for low current components. Excellent products with great support.
Hello Family, Good Post OP. I also bought the $40 dollar Amazon power cords I replace the stock PC`s of my Audio Research CD3 CD player, also to each of my Velodyne Subs, one for the Pass XP30 Preamp. an also one for My Pass XP350 Power amp I`m very pleased with the power cords. The Pass XP30 is a 3 tier Preamp that uses umbilical cords I upgraded those with a used pair of Revelation Audio Labs DP25`s the big 3.6 Maggies sound soooooooo much better.
Let me ask another question. For the main amp, it is pretty heavy so a thick stiff cord is workable but for smaller items like phono stage or DAC they are smaller lighter units, they will work much better with a pretty flexible lighter AC cable. Would appreciate suggestions for good sounding lighter gauge cords please.
As I understand it, shielding is pretty darned important, so perhaps making a really good sounding lighter flexible cord is actually more challenging than a big thick one.
I know that some makers do purposefully like to market their cords as mega thick pythons and give customers a sense they are getting something substantial, play with the buyer psychology some. But I think for my use with source components lighter and more flexible will be better, sound of the cable aside.
The ridgidity is dependent on the brand. Cardas are not ridged although thick. In general I agree that the emphasis on greater flexibility for components. It is not uncommon this to be true.
Most companies make power cords specifically for amps and also specifically for components. Component power cords are designed for greater noice resistance and the amp ones for greater current capacity.
I recommend just work on one cord… for your amp first. As I mentioned earlier, this typically will make the biggest difference. This makes it simpler. You can use Cableco’s lending library, instead of buying… or have a dealer lend you some. If you don’t get a valuable sound difference out of this… then you are unlikely to get a bigger difference out of one of your components (but it is possible).
Also, when auditioning… well anything. It’s good to do a few quick A / B comparisons and write down the results. But, unless you are really put off my a change, spend a number of continuous hours listening to music (not to the power cord). When you take it out, you will most likely get the best take on the real change in sound. I always switch back to my standard… which over the decades [I have chosen to be DHLabs… to me has always been a good quality budget wire. That is me. You can use Home Depot as your standard if you want.]
as you have seen through the replies there are many options out there
from my experience i think you should try some expensive cables on a returnable basis along with cheaper ones, as much of the discovery in this hobby is best done on a first-hand basis (as opposed to via hearsay) but at the end of day, i would use well made well respected cables from established makers that are collectively no more than what you would reasonably spend to upgrade a system component
for me, that means i stick to power cables no more $400-500 per cable at the high end, and more ideally in the $100-250 level... i have, and have tried more expensive ones, they are hit and miss and differences in sound are subtle at best over well made ’economy cables’ by the trusted cable makers
as for direct from china blatant copycat cables via alibaba or ebay ('audiocrast' he he), you decide if you want to fish in that ocean, some bargains may well be had but with my background and experience having worked there for many years, i just don’t trust that avenue as i believe that many of those sellers simply have no scruples, blatantly and bald-facedly lie about what the product is and what it contains -- i at least want to have some faith that what i have in my hand is what they tell me it is... but that is just me...
and, finally, as you have already pointed out, the physical ergonomic characteristics of the cables used on certain components is a very important consideration
triodelover, DH Labs top power cable has a 60 day trial period. They also (I believe) offer 10% discount for new customers when you sign up for their emails. I own this cord, and am very impressed with it on my amp. The next step down is their Red Wave, and to me, probably the best value, but no trial period that I'm aware of. They're great folks to deal with.
@audphile1 "Opting into “boutique bargain” brands like Zavfino, Audio Envy, Cullen, etc. will be a guessing game where you will get what you pay for, potentially not going to be able to return due to restocking fees and end up wondering how an Audioquest power cord would sound like with your amp."
I’ve tried audioquest and brands like Cullen. Never do I wonder what an aq cable will sound like. Popular retail brands do not mean better quality. There are advantages, like returns. Eating $20 for a restocking fee with a legitimate boutique cable maker is way cheaper than the mega bucks cable you’re likely to be no more impressed with than the boutique cable. I recommend exploring with an affordable cable at first, if that makes a difference, then move up the ladder.
OP: Cullen makes awesome power cords. Talk to Patrick about trying his Crossover cord for 30 days. He’ll let you return it. It’s as good a cord as I’ve found for under $1k. If you want, I have one for half price you can buy. One more thing, it's a very flexible cable, which is unlike every other cable of like quality and capability.
Decware makes excellent cables as well. Their shielded cable looks and feels identical to the Cullen Crossover, yet costs nearly twice as much at $400, which is still a bargain compared to Audience, AQ and others
Here's my listening impressions for a number of power cables on a Denafrips Pontus II DAC. To cut to the chase, the Supra LoRad is currently what I'm using on the Pontus.
These are the power cables that I've tried on the Pontus DAC.
Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty: $15
Audiophile AC Power Cable - WAudio 10AWG HiFi Power Cord 3.3FT : $35.99
Pangea AC-14: $44.95
Pangea AC-14 SE MkII: $79.95
Supra LoRad: $91
Shunyata Venom V14: $135
Audience F3 Forte: $150
AV Options Cryo TibiaPlus12 Power Cord: $249
Synergistic Research UEF Blue: $499
Shunyata Research Venom V10 NR: $600
Interesting findings:
The power cables with built in noise reduction (Synergistic Research UEF Blue: $499 & Shunyata Research Venom V10 NR: $600) smoothed out the digital harshness the most, but also seemed to take away presence and air.
The $15 Tripp-Lite Heavy-Duty power cord was decent, because it didn't upset the tonal balance of the music.
Surprisingly, these power cords seemed to make more of a sonic difference on my Pontus DAC than they did on my Lehmann Black Cube SE phono preamp.
The Pontus DAC seems to sound better with power cords that have less aggressive noise reduction built in.
Some comments about each power cord:
Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty: $15 - Best value goes to the $15 Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty cord that also has similar sonic characteristics as the Shunyata Venom V14 power cords and produces about 85% of the resolution of that cord.
Audiophile AC Power Cable - WAudio 10AWG HiFi Power Cord 3.3FT : $35.99 - Tonal quality was nicely warm but the sound sounds veiled and muddled especially as the complexity of music increases. Bass is full but seems a bit undefined. 1-note bass with less tonal variation. The sound particularly in the low frequencies was a bit ponderous.
Pangea AC-14: $44.95 - The tonal quality was good with less overemphasis of bass weight as with the WAudio cord. I found the cord to have more errors of omission rather than that of commission, but my perception is that music sounded more veiled than with the Shunyata Venom V14 power cable in place. The result of this was that music sounded more flat than with the Shunyata cord and less engaging.
Pangea AC-14 SE MkII: $79.95 - Has a nice tonal balance overall without emphasizing any part of the frequency band. Can get overwhelmed in more complex music (such as Improvisation from Dave Brubeck's Quadromania album. Shunyata Venom V14 provides more resolution. Shunyata Venom creates more apparent pace to music. This is likely to due to better resolution of tonal color and the start and end of notes. Shunyata Venom conveys music with more finesse.
Supra LoRad: $91 - This is my pick for the Pontus DAC of all of these power cords.
- Compared to the Shunyata Venom V14, the Supra LoRad power cord seems to make the background of music quieter. Other areas in which the Supra power cord does well are:
The background behind the music is quieter
Better separation and placement of instruments and voices
Better resolution of low-level detail
Rhythms in music are easier to follow
More sense of ease to music that is intended to be calm in nature
Shunyata Venom V14: $135 - The Shunyata cable was good at keeping the sound lively and the resolution high. The Shunyata Venom V14 would be my 2nd choice for the Pontus DAC after the Supra LoRad power cord,
Audience F3 Forte: $150 - The Audience power cord seemed to make the Pontus sound a bit smeared in resolution of details.
AV Options Cryo TibiaPlus12 Power Cord: $249 - AV Options cord is perhaps a bit harsh in tonal quality? Definitely not as sweet sounding. Presentation sounds a bit heavy handed.
Synergistic Research UEF Blue: $499 - It's smooth in sound like the Shunyata Research Venom V10 NR, but seems to take away even more of the detail in music than the Shunyata power cord.
Shunyata Research Venom V10 NR: $600 - It’s quiet, but on the Pontus, it seemed to take away presence and air. Everything was smoothed out including those elements.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
