Class D for a Tube Lover
Try this https://6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticimagery/1.html Not in business any longer. Their class D amps are great. I owned them. Used them with Wilsons sounded great. Also use VAC amps as well . They sound just as warm |
Class D has improved dramatically. Check out "D Sonics". Great reviews online. On a whim I purchased their top monoblocks 3Ma-1500. Less than $3K new. On my Sonus Faber Guarneri's they held their own vs my McIntosh MC601's at 1/5 of the cost, and drive my Maggies better than anything I've tried....including the Mc's, Primare and Bryston. I gave up trying to unseat them. Great amps.....period. |
People, PAY ATTENTION!!! Class D sonics depend on the load! At least look at the first graph for the 6 Class D amplifiers below to see how much variation there is into benign standard loads. FAR MORE than the ’NIGHT & DAY’ differences cables make. Real world loudspeakers are MUCH MORE VARIABLE! PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblock power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com Schiit Audio Aegir power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com Marantz Model 30 integrated amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com Mytek Brooklyn Amp power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com Bel Canto e1X power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com Audio Alchemy DPA-1M monoblock power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com Fanboy recommendations are worthless & DOUBLY SO for Class D!!!! |
I haven’t seen any recs for Primare integrateds- their latest proprietary class D integrateds sound great to me, much closer to at least a great class A/B integrated than any other class D I’ve heard. If you want rolled off/veiled just get one of the Peachtree class D integrateds. They sound positively .....unoffensive. |
there's a pair of Audio Alchemy DPA-1Ms (class D monoblocks) on AG for $1595. Highly recommended by several quality review magazines https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa9di4-audio-alchemy-dpa-1m-monoblock-power-amp-solid-state |
I have one Class A amp and have had two variations of Class D amps. The Class A amp is significantly smoother than the Ice Powered Class D amp, but the Class D amp with Ice power modules blows it out of the water in terms of raw dynamic power, but it tended to be harsh on the upper end frequencies where the Class A amp shined. Now lets talk about the other Class D mono blocks I have which do not use Ice Power devices, they use proprietary design output sections which are liquid cooled. These are the Anthem M1 Class D mono blocks. These two amps absolutely kill the Ice Powered Class D amp and kill squared the Class A amp. The Anthem M1's are smoother, cleaner, more accurate and balanced than the Class A amp. They also have massive output power which is so dynamic that you will hear things that you never heard before. I'd suggest that you find a pair of these, as they run barely warm to the feel in the middle of summer and consume only 3 watts in standby but under use will deliver 2000 watts per channel at 4 ohms with virtually no distortion. The only issue will be the cost, these are $7K per pair, therefore well outside of your budget. But the point is, if you are ever looking to have your cake and eat it too, it is there. |
I own an Audio Research DSI200 class D integrated amp, circa 2010. Beautiful tube-like sound. You can find them used for $2.5k-ish. Real Audio Research sound. Runs super cool. 200watts to 8 ohm. It’s the only solid state integrated amp ARC ever made, just happens to be class D. ARC developed all of the class D circuits themselves. Didn’t use third party modules. I’ll never sell mine even when I eventually upgrade. Paired with Spendor D series it’s glorious |
Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't realize PS Audio's catalogue had Class D amps. I guess I never really thought about it until the heat the Cary's created in my music room even this early in springtime where it's still a bit cool to chilly outside got me a bit concerned. I've had them for probably 4-6 months so not during the summertime. They will not be in use in another few months. I've got more amps but they're either tubed or Class A, for the most part. I do have one amp that I haven't used in a long time that might not generate heat but I honestly do not recall. May try that one out first after the temperature in the PNW rises. BTW, it's a Marsh A400S. And I've got the matching preamp P2000T so that just might be the ticket. The other preamps I have are both tubes (though small tubes so not too much heat generated). I realize component matching can be an issue but I'm of the mind that any component with reasonable quality will play fairly nicely with other components. I don't think I've ever inserted a piece of gear into my system which caused it to totally suck. Different? Sure. But suck? Not really. Maybe I've been lucky or I'm not a critical listener. I think I listen to music as opposed to hardware. But I do have a lot of gear. I just like the stuff. Do any of us "need" more than one of anything, really? |
One more PS Audio recommendation. I picked up an older Trio C-100 Integrated amp a few years ago, and recently tried it in my system. It’s actually a really nice sounding amp, and I paid $550 for it (in mint condition). EDIT - by "nice" I mean competitive as a high-end amp. There are a couple companies that offer mods/upgrades that (supposedly) sound even better, too. Underwood HiFi still provides it’s upgrade services on the amp, actually. It is a pretty rare find, but if you can snag one it would be a relatively cheap foray into class D territory. |
I have 20 pairs.Do you listen to music or just hardware? So an amp that’s able to drive a good variety of speakers is a must.As with tube amps, the loudspeaker completes the drive circuit in Class D albeit with different characteristics and by different electrical properties. Hence one loudspeaker may be chalk while another equally fine product may be cheese with the same amplifier. The exact opposite condition can arise with a different amplifier and the same loudspeakers. |
Having been among the very first to order a Voyager, well over 1 year ago, and having heard the many reports that it would be ready by X date, I would not hold my breath that it will be released by the end of May Now, what you might do is check out what EVS is doing with the Purifi or Rogue amps as a possible stopgap, or just to chill with for several years, if not longer. Many of you know, I bought his EVS 1200 based on IcePower dual mono AS1200 class D modules, and still extremely happy that I did so http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Purifi_amp_mods.html hth |
I primarily listen through Cary tube amps but on a whim, I purchased a Bel Canto Evo2 for my LaScalas. It runs stone cold and provides an incredibly black background with a slightly warm presentation. Sufficient power and nuance to pair with Harbeths and DeVores as well. I have not figured out whether it is classified as a Class N or Class T. A 300b its not, but I am impressed enough to kick myself for not buying one sooner. |
I never realized the likes of Audio Research, Rogue or even PS Audio had Class D amps in their caralogue. So many brands and models I've never heard of. Looks like I'll have a lot to look into. I've got quite a few different speakers that get rotated out (Dunlavy SC-I, JMR Trente, LS50, Totem M1S, Merlin TSM, C&C Abby, blah blah). I counted yesterday as I had to rearrange where the speakers are stored and I have 20 pairs. Stupid, I realize. So an amp that's able to drive a good variety of speakers is a must. |
I bought a ps audio S300 to use while my Musical Reference RM9 mkii (the best tube amp these ears ever heard) was being repaired... I thought I’d sell it once repaired. However, I kept it and sold my tube amp. Does the S300 sound as good as that tube amp...? NO. However, I was shocked at how close it came. It probably helps that I am feeding it with a really nice tube linestage (great synergy). Ignore those that are making blanket statements against class D. I didn’t like earlier class D sound either...but at least PS Audio.... and possibly others are now getting some incredible sound out of class D. I don’t miss the tube replacement costs, heat, the weight, or the extra consumption of energy of tube amps. My experience is that you can have the best of both worlds... With a nice tube pre. YMMV |
If you live around a bigger city, you will likely find some discounted Peachtree products on Facebook Marketplace. If you don't like the sound, you can resell it for around the same price you bought for. Peachtree seems to be one of the most discounted product lines at your price point with a healthy resale market (in comparison to Cambridge Audio for NAD, say). |
@boomerbillone The price on the Starke AD-4 320 shows $999 with free shipping as far as I can tell. Looks great and seems to be a hybrid of class d and a/b. When I search here it seems only you come up with any comments about it. How did you hear about this amp? Does the purifi amp you also own have any of the buffers? |
There is no class d amp that will sound like a class A or tubed amp, sorry.The issue here is distortion- it is distortion that causes tube amps to sound 'warm' and 'lush' and its distortion that causes traditional solid state amps to sound 'bright' and 'harsh', especially at higher volumes. Class D amps do not make the same sort of distortion as traditional solid state. As a result, the generalization in the quote above is false. A class D amp will sound like a tube amp if it makes enough 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion to mask the higher orders, even if its THD is two orders of magnitude lower than the tube amp to which it is being compared. If there are non-linearities in the encoding process, you do in fact get the lower ordered harmonics as the primary distortion. Just one example... |
Don't believe the die-hards. The newest Class D amps fulfill the promise of that topology. They consume just a few watts more than they are outputting at any moment. Try the Starke Sound AD-320. Four channels, bridgeable to two, sounds great, huge power & clarity; under $1500. Returnable if you don't like (you will). I have three running a 5.0 system with Linkwitz LX521-4 main speakers, Golden Ear Triton 5 rears, Wharfdale center channel (11 channels of amps); want two more for other systems in the house. They sound as good as the Purifi output modules (I have four channels of those also). Check the Purifi & Starke reviews. I have several class A amps also. The new "Ds" beat 'em. |
The stock JJs that Rogue ships with leave something to be desired. If you put a good set of NOS tubes in, all Rogue class Ds get much better. Expect to pay $250 for a good set. I have had my Hydra with NOS Ciftes side-by-side with VTL MB-185s, Art Audio Quartets and Art Audio Opus 4s and again it is not the same, but it is not bad. It is far more satisfying than other SS amps I have had through here during the same period. In the end, only the OP can be the judge. But I will say that getting a Class D with tube input stage will be closer than a straight Class D is going to be. I don't think that is at all a stretch. |
I am driving a pair of Vandersteen Treo’s with a PS Audio Stellar S300 Power Amp and am very satisfied with the performance. Class D output stage and Class A input stage. I needed a smaller amp and it has plenty of power, sounds great, and no heat. others have mentioned that PS Audio has two higher levels of Class D amps the 700 and 1200 and the 1200 has a vacuum tube input stage. I also have a PS Preamplifier and am very happy with that also. |
Don't ignore all recommendations....BUT realize that we all have our own sense of what sounds "right". Instead, recognize that everything that has been listed above has a fan and therefore MIGHT meet your needs...but as you know and has been said, the only way to know is to try. And the good thing is that most of these companies have either trial periods, demo models or both. |
Get a Class D with a tube input stage. I would look seriously at a used Rogue Hydra. You should be able to find it used for $1500 to $1800. Then roll in a pair of NOS Cifte or Mullard long plates and be shocked at how much it sounds like a tube amp. There are more expensive options from AVM and others but the Hydra is a tremendous value and fits your budget. I have owned one for six years and it is an amp I will probably never sell. It won't be exactly the same but is a reasonable facsimile. I am a dealer but have no affiliation with Rogue Audio. Just a happy owner. |
I've enjoyed the sound out of the NAD C286. 80 Watts per channel or you can run two of them in bridged mode at 300 Watts per channel. I've bought one and plan to add a second [for bridged mode] when the time is right. $899 each [new] and some retailers offer 60 day money back guarantee [so you can try it out]. Very clean noise free sound. |
I'd like to suggest you give one of the Digital Amplifier Company Cherry Amps a try. They don't use a class d module purchased from a 3rd party, instead they have their own class d circuitry. There are several versions, all with similar voicing and a few that are near or under the $2k mark...and the company often has specials. I own the 2Cherry and would characterize it as having some of the better characteristics of tube+solid state. There are a number of professional reviews...but maybe what the actual owner say might mean more. Here are a couple of links that might be helpful. UPDATED: 🍒 Maraschino, x-CHerry, and MEGAschino REVIEWS (audiocircle.com) Digital Amplifier Company 2-CHerry Power Amplifier The light amp that packs a heavy punch! Review By Frank Garofalo (enjoythemusic.com) Cherry Amp HOME PAGE | cherryamp Tommy O’Brien Digital Amplifier Company (positive-feedback.com) |
I would second the Classe Sigma Amp-2, they sound beautiful, but if you have low impedance speakers - ones that dip down to 1 to 2 ohms - I do not think it will have the bass control that some people are looking for. After trying many amps, I went with AB Rowlands. I moved the Classe to home theater to drive Klipsch - does a wonderful job there - smooth, warm. I have a friend that has the Belcanto amp, says it was $5000 and hates it, not sure which one - he has it driving a set of outside speakers now. My preference is tube on the front end, SS on the back. |
I run a PS Audio Stellar S300 with a tube pre and find the combination excellent. In addition, the build quality is superb. I'm told that their M1200 mono blocks are tremendous performers but are 2x the price. I believe those amps have a tube on the input stage and Class D on the output stage. Reviews have been excellent, though I have not heard them. Modern high quality Class D designs are on par (dollar for dollar) with the equivalent Class AB design. They have come a long way and many people still deriding Class D need to get with the times. Just my $.02 |
Not class D, but I bought a Musical Fidelity M3si class AB integrated for hot weather duties. Sounds wonderful and is the coolest running AB amp I've ever used, nearly no heat. I tried a Rogue Sphinx V2, but sent it back, It sounded ok, except for the hiss that I could hear across the room. (98dB sensitivity speakers) |
There is no class d amp that will sound like a class A or tubed amp, sorry. The heat thing with class A is over blown in my opinion. Yes, they generate some heat, but not near enough to impact your comfort in the summer time. No way would I give up my class A Sugden, especially for a cold and lifeless class d. However, if you must, the Rogue Sphinx v3 would be the way to go, as it also has tubes. |
Check this out
Purifi amp mods (tweakaudio.com) I own his EVS 1200 after having owned the PS Audio M700s, which I quite liked, but the EVS provided almost 3Xs the power with tweaks no manufacturer is likely to implement FYI, class D takes 100-1200 hours to break in. Buying used is actually a plus hth |
OK AudioDwebe, Id first ask what speakers will you use , What genre/ how do you listen, and is there one point or characteristic about the Cary 805 you have that you would not like to lose ? We are talking about coming from a 50W Class A Single Ended Triode Vacuum tube monoblock amp to a very different Transistor based Class D amp. Im rather confident a $2K Class D will not run with this big Dog, though it possibly may depending on what’s important to you. . The deciding factor will be what you are after ultimately. There is one class D that I know of that will be able to recreate and surpass all that your 50W Class A SET can, yet have much lower distortion and have quicker transients. plus be like one tenth the weight and have no heat. I am however committed to no compromise quality combined with good value. Therefore my solutions are not stopgap. I offer solutions that fix it for good. No looking back. but there is no way for me to help without a little more information please. Anything Ice module will behave close to the same way and my experience with 250 ASX2 says nothing syrupy or even close to dark. Its a very good module. Whomever designs the input stage makes or breaks this design. Please let me know what speakers you will be using and what about the Cary do you not wish to give up ? cheers Mikey |
I have a used NAD M32 on order that should be here mid/late next week. I've read good things about NAD's newer class D amps and will try and remember to post my thoughts here. I can also vouch for the PS Audio M700s. I would describe them as balanced and neutral (in a good way) more than warm and syrupy (to continue using the term, lol). However, they are fairly smooth, grain-free, and lacking edge. I would have to agree with the comments that 1) you probably won't get "warm" with a class D (at least under 2k?) - at best you'll get smooth, and 2) it would probably be best to add warmth with a tube pre. Happy hunting! |
I just purchased a pair of Purifi based monos, don’t have them yet. I just want to experiment with them. But, it seems these are the latest greatest when it comes to class d amp modules. Look for them. It seems PS Audio is a bit high on the price side for what you get... There are several brands. I bought mine from March Audio out of Aus. Alan, the owner, will go over your entire system to put you in the best overall amp choice. |
I own a Nord Ice Power 1200as2 based amp and I have no complaints. I want to upgrade my bedroom system and I'm going with Purifi this time around. I'm looking at an Apollon Audio Purifi 1ET400A MINI Stereo Amp because I love the design. I'm also considering VTV's Purifi offering because I "love" the price! I can recommend Nord Acoustics products and service. |
These mono blocks seem to have a lot of reviewers singing their praises. https://wyred4sound.com/products/mono/mamp https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649429931-wyred-4-sound-mamps-monos/ |
