Class D amps seem poised to take over. Then what?
There are officially two types of people on Audiogon. Those listeners who trust their own ears, and can tell what they like to listen to versus what they do not like, and then there’s the audience which needs George to tell them they are wrong. I wish I had as much grit in finishing a college level course as George has in pushing baseless opinions which are quickly disproven by anyone with two ears and half an hour to kill. Best, E |
Unfortunately Class D amps are not even as good as Midfi Class A/B. They are not taking over anything, they're just wowing some people with their extended highs, full midrange, fine details, black background and tight bass. Once you get over that, you can regain your composure and resume your affair with Class A, Class A/B. |
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earlflynn Good for you. Alberto is great to deal with and offers an in home trial. |
Sad really sad. george is the type of member that keeps most manufactures from taking part on forums. There is always one bad apple and it's unfortunate. I stand by my experience that the AGD's drive Wilson 5.1 and XLF's superbly. I have close to 5 decades with Wilson speakers and i have never heard them sound better. Many members here and else where that have tried the AGD's agree with me 100%. This coming from those with hands on experience and not speculation or misinformation. For those wanting to explore class D there are a handful of class D amps that are upper class and superb, i came across AGD almost by accident and my musical enjoyment has increased tenfold. If you can get a trial at home to some good class D amps you could be in for a musical revelation, this coming from personal experience. |
Nice review here of the Amp @mglik is talking about. https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/agd-productions-audion-amplifier/ Going to order a pair and try them with my Bel Canto DAC 2.7 |
@mglik Thank you for the information. I am going to try and demo them and see if I can audition in my system. I like to try things and see for my self. If they don't work out I sell them here... Can only formulate an opinion based on first hand information and I never base it on a spec sheet alone. If I did I would have never purchased the greatest sounding non up-scaling DAC on the planet. BP SE-i |
AGD is that every record in my collection is now highly listenable Regardless of recording quality That’s great, I’m not saying/never it’s not with the right speaker loading. I’m correcting someone who has attempted to misinform the members here, about what speakers they can’t drive to their best, either through total lack of EPDR load understanding or outright just wishful thinking because they own one, and think they are the answer to everything🙏 Cheers George |
Class D amps seem poised to take over. Then what?Skynet will take over and we will all be servants to the robot kingdom. Forced to listen to Industrial Tranzsedentic Music for the rest of our existence. John Conner let us all down. Happy Independence Day. like what you like who cares what others think. |
Every class of amplification and every amplifier itself, has advantages and disadvantages. Class A, AB, D, tube amps, single ended triode, etc. There are things that my current class D amplifier excels in that my previous First Watt F7, Almarro a318b, E.A.R. 890 and others did not and vice versa. In the end, amplifiers are like women: Which one do you want to live with on a day-to-day basis without annoying you to the point where you have to move on to something else? Which one has so many positives that you are willing to put up with the negatives? It’s the same thing. |
your posts are quite comical and i detect the lack of knowledge. Once again you know zero of what you say.Everything has been proved, it is you that is the unknowledgeable one with no idea, and no will to learn, and with a fixation with what the AGD amp is cable doing and not doing. Only because you know nothing of EPDR speaker loading, and are not even willing to try to understand what it is🤦♂️, I’ve tried, but you have https://ibb.co/6yVxb0Q 😉 I come on here to provide to others my experience.But which tell them false stories of what the AGD is capable of doing into low EPDR bass loads of around 1 to 1.5ohms. That is why I post measurement proof to correct your falsehoods. |
george Once again you know zero of what you say. I also do not desire to read your links. You fail to realize that at one time i owned a company that built speakers and have several US patents still in effect. Your one of those that wants to be a big fish in a small pond, it's somewhat sad that you feel the need for the attention. Regarding speakers Wilson's are not the only speakers that i own. I own Devore nines and super nines, Audio Note, Raidho, Magico, and Tekton. I also have Boulder amps that i'm keeping simply because i can only get half of what i paid new. I come on here to provide to others my experience. Your combative with people and feel the need to be right. Your real world knowledge seems to be limited and comes from what you read or some review and not first hand experience. Some of your posts are quite comical and i detect the lack of knowledge. And please no more paste and copy or boring links. |
I sold my Wavac 300b tube amp and Pass XA25 because they were collecting dust as my class d was superior to both to MY ears. You used an SE 300b or a XA25 to drive a pair of Wilson WP 5.1’s!!!! No wonder you think the Class-D AGD is the be all and end all to those 2 amps, which btw had no hope of driving the 5.1’s correctly, look at the combined impedance and -phase angle, the EPDR is around 1 to 1.5ohm in the bass very hard to drive. And like I say now also even for the AGD, but it’s better than what you had. https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/watpup5fig03.jpgIf you wish to learn a little about EPDR load of speakers on amps go here. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/epdr-more-important-than-impedance-alone |
It comes down to finding that great amplifier regardless of class. There are just ok class a, a/b and d amps just as there are great class a, a/b and d amps. Those making claims that there are no great class d amps have not experienced the best that is out there. And i'm not talking about bargain amps or the most watts for the least amount of money. Most look at class d and are willing to give something up for the convience and money saving of class d. The class d i own allows me to have my cake and eat it too. I sold my Wavac 300b tube amp and Pass XA25 because they were collecting dust as my class d was superior to both to MY ears. |
Or it is just validation in your mind. Not saying that as a disparaging comment I felt the same way with a couple of Class D amps till they showed their true nature. I decided Class D is great for out on the deck, cheap and do not care if it gets wet. Like what you like and be satisfied. If you are coming here for validation good luck with that. Dead bodies attract dead bodies. |
The SQ of my current Class D amp is the most emotional I have experienced without any other even coming close. Maybe it’s the lack of distortion, having the right harmonic distortion, the transparency, the smoothness, the sweetness or the sheer musicality. To just say the sound is “wet” and not at all “dry” is an understatement. I have certainly raved enough about my particular Class D amp. But now feel there are, at least, a handful of Cl D amps on the market which have similar qualities. I believe that within this decade Class D will surpass all other class amps and become the “benchmark” of quality Audio amplification. |
The only thing a class D amp is good for is driving a sub. Whom ever suggested class D amps are good for driving a hungry watt eating speaker like electrostatics never had electrostatic speakers. Don’t you know how revealing electrostats are? Who wants class D when you’re better off with a space heater class A, or a 100 watt tube amp. No way I’m giving up great amps for trash. |
Class D amps have gotten better without doubt. They are performing on a level never thought achievable. But as good as they are in providing great transparency, detail, full midrange (vocals) and deep mind-blowing bass they still fall short in delivering the emotional aspect of the music. Not tapping my foot anymore. Fix that and I might consider retiring my Class A/B amp. |
Class D will most likely take over if you have inefficient speakers that take tons of power like Electrostatics. They are great in large areas, sub woofers because they are powerful. I have heard some class D amps and they do sound good. For some people probably a good choice depending on the room, speakers, tastes in music. Most people probably wont notice much difference. Not if you have really good Speakers that bring out the best and the worst in music with a side by side comparison. From that point it is what you like to hear. My notion for class D got soured badly when I made my first exciting investment with a combo Integrated class D amplifier, streamer. It was small, cute, powerful. It was dynamic. I was using 45 year old Crown A-AB+ 90WPC Amp, Crown Pre Amp. The line that crosses between a good system and a high end system which varies greatly depending on what it is and the investment. I was getting ready for that old equipment to have a good butt whipping! Uh, No, not even a close comparison. Where the Old Amps were getting the details, Low Dynamics in the Trombone, Tuba crescendos giving balls to the lows, the Class D failed to reproduce any hint of fullness of the true tones of the instruments. Only Bass, sharp toned highs. Could have been a mismatch of my titanium drivers. I have 8" carbon fiber woofers. There was plenty of power from the 60W class D. In fact it had more loudness that the old 90W unit and the class D driving the woofers hard. Just the details I look for in music were not there. Then, I decided to go get the best I could afford. I went with a Tube integrated and it is in a league of its own compared with the Crown. Crown was good, but nothing like the Tube integrated at half the power. I have learned from a friend that bought a pair of Red Dragon mono blocks. He said they were very good, but the Shiit Vidars in mono sounded better on his Magnapans. I will never give up my tube integrated until I am in the grave. I have had it 6 months and it just keeps sounding better. Jaw dropping sound, detail, enough to make you laugh, cry, and dance with the wife. :) |
Nothing in the audio world from the 1950s is much more than an antique. The 2020 something tech changes everything, including the functionality of Class D amplification. Earlier in discussion someone suggested that putting a tubed pre-amp in front will make it all OK. I now run a Peachtree Grand X-1 hybrid integrated with a pair of 12AU7s in the pre-amp section. This is supported by 440 watts per channel of Class D transistors and this is a marvelous machine for a home system. Smooth, able to wisper and bang a gong. I do not believe most (any) listeners would be able to detect a real difference. |
@johnkent3 Lol. It certainly seems that way anymore. I don't understand all the hatred for class D. I've had a number over the years and all were outstanding in some ways and needed improvement in others, just like any other amp. The same can be said for every tube amp, Class A and AB amps I've had over the years. No amplifier is perfect. Last night I was listening to my system and shaking my head in disbelief and loving every minute... with my class D amplifier. |
When Class D takes over, the earth will stop rotating and those magnetized by covid vaccines will be demagnetized. The more time i spend here the more it feels like a bunch of geezers trying to hang onto the old tech and talk about how $5k cables augment sound. For a friendly forum less obsessed by expensive gear, but rather heavy on vinyl, try the Steve Hoffman Forums. For a friendly one with a more costly slant, try Audio Aficionado. |
If he believes this that’s fine - nice for him if it makes him happy. I believe these perceptions to be (almost) completely subjective though.Not necessarily! It will sound like a tube amp if it has the same distortion signature and if you look at AGD's webpage for the product you'll see he published that. Not unlike an SET distortion signature... This is the sort of thing that's easily measured and heard. Ahhh..Please reserve the term " Beta production" for software/mainstream tech ..NOT for the art of domestic audio....please:) Pretty funny I liked the sound but I'm a ham radio operator and it generated RFII had a class D amp in a subwoofer that interfered with FM reception! I got rid of it for the same reason. They're not supposed to do that and a properly built class D won't. |
I’m a ham radio operator and it generated RFI which was picked up by my transceiver. Went back to class A/B and now no noise. You can check this yourself, get a portable "am radio" tune it around between 500-700khz "unmuted" turn up the volume, and go near your Class-D amps speaker terminals with it and even switchmode wall warts, and listen to it scream. This is "what it looks like" on Stereophiles oscilloscope square wave shot (top pic) https://ibb.co/xgHv8dZ But now Stereophile don’t show that pic anymore and filter it out with their AP test gear filters so you don’t see it, which should not be allowed, in my books as it's not representative of what comes out the amps speaker output. They say it’s because the noise overloads the AP gear, but that’s bs because they didn’t use it years ago, with the same gear, and if it does then they should fix it not hide it. Cheers George |
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