Whatever, one day you'll find out you were full of it.
Class D amps seem poised to take over. Then what?
I am certainly biased by my lifetime final amp being a Class D. But I know that after 30+ years of development, Class D seems to be on a high plain. I know there are now many, many companies focusing on Class D and, maybe, a good handful already as good as it gets. My Class D amp is as smooth and beautifully musical as a great tube amp and as punchy and detailed as a great SS amp. I am satisfied and done with my search. A class D amp has effectively taken me off the amp merry-go-round. It’s about time after 50 years. And, for me, this Class D is a milestone. Will all other classes of amps fade away?
Showing 36 responses by georgehifi
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” -AristophancesYou must be describing yourself there, because all your shilling here, is "making out" that the Class-D you’ve got coming will be able to drive these hard to drive speakers to sound their best, a little secrete for you, it won’t! -Georgehifi |
AGD is that every record in my collection is now highly listenable Regardless of recording quality That’s great, I’m not saying/never it’s not with the right speaker loading. I’m correcting someone who has attempted to misinform the members here, about what speakers they can’t drive to their best, either through total lack of EPDR load understanding or outright just wishful thinking because they own one, and think they are the answer to everything🙏 Cheers George |
your posts are quite comical and i detect the lack of knowledge. Once again you know zero of what you say.Everything has been proved, it is you that is the unknowledgeable one with no idea, and no will to learn, and with a fixation with what the AGD amp is cable doing and not doing. Only because you know nothing of EPDR speaker loading, and are not even willing to try to understand what it is🤦♂️, I’ve tried, but you have https://ibb.co/6yVxb0Q 😉 I come on here to provide to others my experience.But which tell them false stories of what the AGD is capable of doing into low EPDR bass loads of around 1 to 1.5ohms. That is why I post measurement proof to correct your falsehoods. |
I sold my Wavac 300b tube amp and Pass XA25 because they were collecting dust as my class d was superior to both to MY ears. You used an SE 300b or a XA25 to drive a pair of Wilson WP 5.1’s!!!! No wonder you think the Class-D AGD is the be all and end all to those 2 amps, which btw had no hope of driving the 5.1’s correctly, look at the combined impedance and -phase angle, the EPDR is around 1 to 1.5ohm in the bass very hard to drive. And like I say now also even for the AGD, but it’s better than what you had. https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/watpup5fig03.jpgIf you wish to learn a little about EPDR load of speakers on amps go here. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/epdr-more-important-than-impedance-alone |
I’m a ham radio operator and it generated RFI which was picked up by my transceiver. Went back to class A/B and now no noise. You can check this yourself, get a portable "am radio" tune it around between 500-700khz "unmuted" turn up the volume, and go near your Class-D amps speaker terminals with it and even switchmode wall warts, and listen to it scream. This is "what it looks like" on Stereophiles oscilloscope square wave shot (top pic) https://ibb.co/xgHv8dZ But now Stereophile don’t show that pic anymore and filter it out with their AP test gear filters so you don’t see it, which should not be allowed, in my books as it's not representative of what comes out the amps speaker output. They say it’s because the noise overloads the AP gear, but that’s bs because they didn’t use it years ago, with the same gear, and if it does then they should fix it not hide it. Cheers George |
Well..george has an MO of trying to cherry pick items to bolster his view. You really need to get educated on this. Look at the paragraph direct above your last post, even he back down on the flagship Wilsons I mentioned that a Class-D can't drive to their best. And he cherry picked the ones that can, (Sophia, Sasha ect) because they have far easier loading that the Class-D won't be too taxed with🤦♂️ |
Even the big high bias amps built with BJT's can't do it. Oh dear🤦♂️, to say that an amp doubles, is just a "saying", maybe it should read "close to doubling", but hey, I didn't make up the saying. No! amp can perfectly double it wattage from 8 to 4 to 2 ohms, that would be a furphy, and would be like saying perpetual motion is a reality. |
These companies that claim double wattage when impedence is halved don’t give the actual 8ohm measurement Usually if they don’t, they are hiding something. Stereophile does for Class-D if you read the Lab Tests on them and that’s usually is in the negative. But even Stereophile doesn’t usually do 2ohm testing on Class-D’s as they are usually pitiful, when compared to the good linear solid BJT state amps for putting out big (doubling watts) current. Cheers George |
You keep mentioning Wilson’s as being hard to drive, where does this come from? For someone who "says" they’ve owned Wilsons, you are not very au fait or even interested in how they measure or behave, in particular the loading they present for amps to see. And they have many models that are in that same low EPDR loading bracket. From HiFi News Lab Report |
georgehifi atmasphere Dream on sunshine, were talking about driving the Wilsons mentioned here. Trust you to try to skew it around to make out that your OTL amps could even come close to driving these, the hardest of Wilsons to drive (Always looking for the self promoting angle) |
Everyone has an opinion - which is good - not everyone agrees with another persons opinion Difference is, these are measured facts, and not my opinion. And if one dismisses them then this is what they believe, https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/scaled/2013/12/18/article-0-1A2B262D00000578-818_636x382.jpg as every decent piece of audio gear is designed by the laws of electronic design |
@georgehifi - wouldn’t it depend on the original rating at 8ohms, the power supply rating that feeds the class D modules? No, although it to needs to be beefy, look at any Class-D that has been independently wattage tested into 8ohm 4ohm 2ohm regardless of powersupplies (most won’t get test into 2ohms), they are fets, and fets can’t do doubling of 8 to 4 to 2ohms (current) like complimentary bi-polars (bjt) can do like in the the Gryphon Antillion, bigger Krell, D’Agostino Boulder, etc etc etc Also look at my post in the "Pass X260.8 vs Bryston 7B3" thread Cheers George |
I hate it when people talk about subjects they know nothing about.You need to hate yourself then, as you have no idea about the performance of Class-D even when using GaN Fets into 8 4 2 and 1ohm at it’s "current ability" (wattage doubling) at these loadings. And how those Wilsons demand it to get the best out of them. Next you’ll say an OTL of Ralphs can drive those Wilsons to their best properly, because they too will stay stable into them and not oscillate.🤷♂️ |
Don’t have to, the AGD is just GaN based Class-D slid into a "bogus" empty tube envelope, which uses (horror) the base pins for all it’s contacts 🤦♂️ And there no way the AGD can do what say the Gryphon Antilion can do into the Alexia, Alex, or XLF’s bass, if you do own any of these, they go down to 0.9ohm EPDR (Equivalent peak dissipation resistance). It’s a measurable fact. Don’t get me wrong, I never said it won’t sound any good, just not the very best for those speakers. And if I had the money for them I’d have the money for the best amp also. Cheers George |
FACT!!!! No way can ANY Class-D compete with doubling of wattage into impedances 8 > 4 > 2 and 1ohm (current ability) like BJT amps Gryphon Antillion, bigger Krell, D’Agostino Boulder, etc etc etc can Class-D "may" not blow up, because of severe current limiting at 2 and 1ohm but they can’t drive into those low impedances like those BJT above amps can. Anyone who says they can is just shilling for sales. A friend Edgar Kramer, editor/owner of Soundsatge Australia has the Wilson Alexia MkII, and no Class-D he’s tried and reviewed and I’ve heard at his house has sounded any where near as good on them, as his Gryphon Antilion does, especially in the bass where those Alexia’s are 0.9ohm loading. I will also say the Technics SE-R1 which I rave about is also in that same situation, as GaN Fet like Mosfets output stages can’t do current like BJT’s can into low impedances, 1 or 2ohms Cheers George |
If you can get hold of a Technics SE-R1 flagship or at least it’s cheaper integrated the SU-R1000 The SE-R1 addresses the "Achilles Heel" of Class-D, (ultra sonic switching noise down into the audio band) Technics takes it up 3 x higher and so filters it up 3x higher also, which results in 3 x less switching noise in the audio band. It’s been said the SU-R1000 integrated does it also, but not confirmed by Techinics. These are the only Class-D’s so far to take full advantage of the GaN Technology’s far higher ability to be able switch 3 x higher. Other manufactures using GaN are only half exploiting it, and still using the old 3 x lower switching frequency, like all other Class-D’s do since the 90’s, so really not much advantage using GaN if not used like Technics have. This top pic is what the switching noise looks like on the output of a Class-D going to the speakers a 10khz square. https://ibb.co/qBnNwVJ Now Stereophile use an "AP (Audio Precisions) temporary test bench filter" on the output to give the illusion of a cleaner bottom pic, and they never give the top pic anymore, this is done in my view as to to not freak potential; buyers out. Cheers George |
You’re the one who brought up the topic of fuses. Yes "fuses and other snake oil" not people, big difference!!!!!! and you bit and attacked me and my dog personally, and yes I consider my Dingo a person. You choose attack the members/people/dog, probably because you have no electronic knowledge you can call on. |
Go the far better integrated the SU-R1000, it’s said it also uses the far higher switching speed of 1.5mhz like the flagship SE-R1, which cuts down greatly the switching noise intruding down into the audio band. (class-D’s achillies heel) And Technics is the only one I know of that has exploited this GaN technology feature so far. https://www.stereophile.com/content/technics-presents-discussion-their-reference-class-su-r1000-digi... Cheers George |
Admin had a knee jerk reaction to the unfounded claims All noise, when a subject is attacked for being snake oil, voodoo or whatever, that is fair game and keeps the shillers down. But you then retaliate by attacking the poster or in the last case their dog personally. And that’s where the difference is, and why you get deleted more than anyone on Audiogon.🤦♂️ |
Allnoise, you are seriously twisted, don’t know why you would say that. Dingo’s are one of the smartest dogs ever, and they look great too. (And bonus they don’t bark) we have them as pets. https://www.dogbreedslist.info/uploads/dog-pictures/dingo-3.jpg https://www.wollondillyadvertiser.com.au/images/transform/v1/crop/frm/silverstone-feed-data/94fe3d47... https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/f2467edad178698cb5aaa0dbf244b5b7?width=650 https://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images19/DingoTalli8YearsOld.JPG |
Hate to tell you this, but Class-D is not digital. Cheers George |
Only two from Technics so far are in Class-D royalty. They are the Technics SU-R1000 Integrated and the SE-R1 Power-Amp, both use the GaN technology, the SE-R1 uses it to the max, with a 1.5mhz switching speed, it’s yet to be proved/written if the SU-R1000 has gone the extra yards and used this 3 x higher switching speed. Cheers George |