burn in - how important?
Over the years following Agon forums I have read many postings about burn in and been fairly sceptical, as many items I have bought over the years have changed SQ very little or at all, after years of use. Recently I replaced my Rogue Stereo 90 with a used EAR 534 power amp. Out of the box it looked brand new, all nice and shiny. I plugged it into my also fairly recently acquired Aesthetix preamp and was horrified by the thin sound, little or no soundstage and was relieved I hadn't yet sold the Rogue. Now I knew why it had been up for sale or did I. Maybe I was too lazy to plug in the Rogue again but I left the EAR in place and after about 30 hours I noticed a difference, more depth, wider soundstage, Now after about 100 hours - WOW huge soundstage, both depth and width. great tight bass, shimmering highs. Now I know why Tim De Paravicini was regarded as a genius and sorry for the seller who probably had not given the unit a chance to burn in properly. I decided to biwire it into my ML Vantage speakers and cut out the second Acurus a250 amp which I was using in biamped format. There was hardly any difference, maybe quieter and more detailed overall. Who would have thought an EL 34 based 55wpm channel Class A amp could drive a pair of electrostatic hybrid speakers rated at 4ohms. OK no longer a sceptic about burn in but a firm believer. What has been your experience?
Experiencing this at very moment with Psvane Acme 300B, just starting to open up around 75 hours. Amps and speakers the biggest hassle as you actually have to pass signal which means having music going many hours of day, and not with intention of listening or with highest sound quality.
Per verdantaudio, it is the heating and cooling cycle that's responsible for much of burn in. Certainly true for forming of capacitors, EML states tube burn in forms tubes in like manner. |
My experience with "burn-in" has been variable as some equipment changes more than others with extended use. I installed a new set of PS Audio M1200 mono amps a couple months ago and those have evidenced more changes with time than any component I've used in the last forty years. They sound remarkably different than they did on first installation. My previous PS Audio BHK250 didn't change all that much with extended use. |
Agreed! For those who insist that this is all merely in your head and is nothing more than getting acclimated, I happen to believe they are wrong. Charles |
It varies wildly from component to component. Tubes Typically need between 60 and 200 hours to sound right. With tubes, there is an outer coating of material that needs to burn off and negatively impacts performance. For most tubes, 60-100 hours is plenty. It is only 300Bs and other tubes that can last decades that usually have really long burn in times. Cables need to charge the dialectic. Parts need to get hot and cool off repeatedly. The spider on a speaker needs to flex. Some of these changes can be significant. Anyone who tells you it is just you getting accustomed to the new sound has not had a lot of new gear. For those of us who are perpetually opening new boxes, it varies wildly from manufacturer to manufacturer. When you get a new device, your retailer or the manufacturer should have a POV.
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I leave my oppo BDP 205 disc player powered on all the time. it was modded by Modwright with dual tubes in the audio output stage and has a single tube in the added power supply, which I do not leave on. Does not leaving the power supply on continuously have that much of a negative effect on the SQ?
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I'm not an owner of any of the high end gear you folks own. But I certainly have noticed a difference in my vintage equipment now that it has settled in and if I leave it on for a few hours before listening....huge difference. And I think my '86 Monster speaker cables have burned in fairly well. Happy listening! |
As far as I can remember burn in has been very obvious on all new stuff I have purchased, since I got high end gear… 40 years. Over the last few years I have (for various reasons) broke in about five new pieces of Audio Research Reference electronics and the pattern has been identical. Hugh difference (starting from thin, closed in, limited bass) for about 100 hours… then remarkable improvement, then switching back and forth from good to bad and visa versa around 120 hours… then slow improvement through 600 hours (fastest at first). This time, I did notice improvement over 600 - 1,000 hours… small but noticable… I had read about this before but never experienced it (usually because it was covered up by me switching power cords or interconnects or something.
This has always been a real pain because I usually go through an upgrade cycle… and want to get through it as fast as possible…. But I never buy everything at once so getting hundreds of hours in is hard. I have an extra Schiit system just to break in stuff. |
@millercarbon - indeed! When I got my Herron phono amp and line-stage amp, Keith said they'd need 150 hours or so to sound their best. As you say, they sounded just fine out of the box, but Keith was not wrong.... |
I have 3 power cables hooked up in series on my refrigerator. They will stay there for a month (30 days). They go from there to conditioner for 2 more weeks. OCC copper with mill spec 5N silver and PTFE. Red copper male/female terminal ends. When I plug one of those in vs one not conditioned, they never do sound the same or BREAK IN in 1/4 of the time. They sound good as soon as they are plugged in after 30 minutes. At 100 hours that silver clad is sounding great, compaired to another 2-300 more hours it would take for unconditioned cables. I'm not sure some will ever break-in, in a real low tickle situation. Tone arm wire, that kind if stuff.. I HATE breaking in a new tonearm. I feel like I wear out a cart breaking in the friggen cable, to finally sound great at 500+ hours.. A lot of newbies give up on the thin sound untill, MAGIC. The issue is just being plugged in dosen't condition that type of cable, like a PC does, you have to actually put a signal through the cable. OFC copper with gold plated terminal ends. 50 hours.. They are ready to work in a tonearm...:-) 10 hours on speaker cable.. Just the nature of the beast.. Break-in time are a LOT shorter.. Equipment, there is all kinds of different cables with different dielectrics. Teflon caps, good Lord, forever to breakin'.. And they sound wonky, for 500 of that..THEN they last for a 1000 years. Regards |
Not only burn-in but warm up, figured this one out 30 years ago. First someone said SS should be left on, sounds better. My vintage 1970's Kenwood integrated, how is it gonna get any more burned in? Left it on 24/7 a few weeks. No difference. Or so I thought. Until one day turned it off and then the next day, WTF? Why's it sound so crappy? Oh. McCormack DNA1, Herron VTPH2A, Benz, Koetsu, Origin Live Sovereign and Enterprise arm, I wouldn't say any of them sounded bad they were great right out of the box but it was a trip hearing them change so much the first few minutes and hours. Many times they would sound different by the end of a song than at the beginning. Then slower improvement as time goes on until finally they reach a sort of equilibrium. From then on it is a nightly warmup routine. Nothing ever sounds the same twice. If you think it does, you either are not listening closely enough, or your ears or system aren't there yet. |
Excellent learning experience and demonstrating the value of patience . Some high quality audio components need to be given time to evolve and reach their true performance level. As a result you discovered you have a wonderful sounding amplifier built by the late and esteemed Tim De Paravicini. Hasty decisions can lead to regrettable actions. Thankfully not in this case. Charles |
Absolute believer in burn in but there is also truth to becoming acclimated to a new sound over time. I’ve experienced both. I’ve listened to new items in my system for a day or two then have left the component/speaker to cook for a week or so without listening. It sounded different upon listening a week later. Not all but certainly many have. Those experiences convinced me. |
I've had two experiences. One of them repeated by other A'goners. Replacing caps in Focals caused really odd surround sound like effects for about a week until they just magically went away. The other has to do with Class D amps. I was using a pair of IcePower amps and turned them off for a weekend. Came back, they sounded horrible. Took about 4 days of leaving them on to return. At least 3 other A'goners have confirmed this phenomenon. |
