Another component purchasing strategy is to continue to buy used/try/sell until you find a DAC you like. This will take time, effort, a little $ (shipping costs, tax..), but may lead you to audio nirvana.
Best DAC for around $2,500 or less
What are your opinions on the best DAC for under $2,500? Looking at the Schiit Yggy or many of recommend Denafrips so looking at their Pontus. Any thoughts on how these two compare? It might be misguided by I tend to think your getting a little more for your money with a direct to consumer company like Schiit and I know they are highly regarded for their DACS. Anything else to look at in this price range?
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I'm very happy with my Exogal Comet Plus The Exogal Comet is considered a high performance digital to analog audio converter playing up to 32/384k and DSD.The Comet does everything l like my DAC to do, including balanced and unbalanced analog outputs, digital volume control and asynchronous USB input. I bought mine as a demo for $2,000 with optional power supply |
Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts and recommendations. It's been an educational experience. I ended up buying an Audio Mirror Trubidor III used here on Audigon just now. For now, the Node 2i will be the streamer until I'm able to update that to a dedicated streamer. What is your preferred method to hook up your digital source to your DAC? From the Node it looks like my options are either Coax or Optical. I think I'll go with balanced XLR's from the DAC to the pre-amp. |
While I have no idea if it’s the “best” under $2500, I too have been mighty impressed by the RME ADI-2. It is really smooth and detailed and comes pretty damn close to my PS Audio DirectStream - the PS Audio is more analog sounding for sure, with better scale, but in other aspects I have to strain to hear the difference. It’s impressed me much more than the Ayre Codex I had a while back. Need to try it with a better power supply, I suspect it may help the bass and scale. Review forthcoming. |
I agree wholeheartedly with jjss49 comments, Chord Qutest is the route to go. Whilst I am not familiar with some of the DAC's referred in this blog as I'm in UK, I undertook considerable testing with a number of DAC's some costing double the Qutest price tag and for me, it still came out on top. It also offers the sonic characteristics you are seeking because neutrality, timing. clarity, depth and space i.e. the same sonic characteristics of the Benchmark you refer are in abundance in the Qutest and whats more, it will save you some money. I've done some investigation in the last hour on other DAC's referred in this blog and nothing I have read changes my mind that Chord Qutest is the route to go. Don't take my word for it though, go test it against Benchmark's DAC2, Wyre4sound DAC-2v and others and if testing doesn't allow in current Covid-19 environment, buy the Qutest with confidence from a reputable & trusted dealer you know on the basis of home trial and if not convinced, return it.I bet you'll be throwing the box away within an hour. |
The sound quality above a certain level - when all niceties which can mess up the sound are avoided - comes down to the DAC-chip(s). Everything "Delta-Sigma" is internally upsampling, downsampling, interpolating and "improving" your signal. The other way would be to have non-oversampling DAC chips, which are not "filtering" or otherwise "improving" your signal. While many non-oversampling DACs use vintage chips - which can be very musical like the TDA1541 - METRUM ACOUSTIC developed their own modern non-oversampling chips which allow 24/382 "DXD" resolution. Listening to 2L highres recordings in DXD resolution is quite something. So my recomendation would be a Metrum Amethyst for +1 1k or the Metrum Jade which is a digital preamp with loudness control (without loosing resolution quality in the process). I have the Amethyst and it is what a tube amp is to SS. Not "in your face" but just realistic and relaxed - and with grunt when need be. |
i would consider, in no particular order:
You also need to ask "do i want a network connected DAC or is USB/SPDIF sufficient?". I strongly urge getting a network connected DAC. It;’s at least as good sounding and seriously flexible/convenient. Some reasons it is technically (sonically) superior too. |
I have had Oppo 105 and Oppo 205 used as DACs. Also Had Wyred DAC2 v2. Better than all of those is the Matrix Audio X-Sabre https://matrix-digi.com/en/products/318.html They are good enough for a friend's TAD References. Although an apples vs oranges comparison they are a better product than my magicos. |
Here are my comments from my listening experiences - don't take them personally please I build a R2R DAC but way out of your price range. From what has been mentioned above - I was not impressed at all with the following: Wyred Schitt Benchmark Mytek Lampy AMber Bel Canto In your price range: Ayre Codex - heard this at Audio Connections - very nice sounding Audio Mirror - see SnoPro comments regarding his comparison of the Denafrips - I trust his ears personally - I think there are upgrades offered for this unit I would also look into the Electrocompinient (spelling) - I heard this over the weekend and it was way musical and open with excellent sound stage dimension - so musical you could listen all day long to any type of music. Also, just because a DAC has R2R does not mean anything unless the design is good. The DAC we offer has an R2R discrete but it also has a 30 pound power supply, uses V-Capacitors, AC filter chokes, copper plates, etc. I have also built the same design using the Sanbre 32 bit. Both sound excellent - we prefer the R2R for overall musicality. You can by R2R DACs form China that would not sound anywhere in the same league. No offense please.- your experiences may be much different that what my ears heard. Happy Listening |
There is no ’Best’, and really no way around trying to figure out what your own preferences are based on listening. Someone's "this DAC is overperforming over that DAC" comment need to be taken in context that their definition of overperforming may not be yours. I currently own all three of below, and appreciate them all in their own way: Chord 2Qute (predecessor to the Qutest, which likely is another level of improvement) - may daily driver in my ’main’ system of Naim 282/250/ATC19s because I love the balance between great insight while still feeling a certain drive and ’verve’ (sorry, terrible word) to the music that keeps my attention Benchmark 2 (currently used as headphone amp, not in a system otherwise) - wow, the most insight/clarity/detail out of any of the DACs. it’s remarkable what details it can pull out of tracks you thought you knew. But for day-to-day listening, it is *not* my preference, so important to understand what may sound most technically accomplished may not be what you prefer day in and day out BorderPatrol SEi (currently in my office w/ a Supernait 2 and ProAc Tablette 10s) - probably listen to as much if not more than my main system during this WFH era, and I absolutely love this DAC, especially with the tube engaged in the rectifier. Yes, it doesn’t do high rez, and yes I know it has crap measurements in Stereophile... but I can listen and love Roon streaming in background for hours a day and every once in a while between meetings really crank it up and I am in heaven. All of which is a long way of saying, absolute $s and tech specs can’t tell you what you’ll end up liking. Consider buying used (or something new with a healthy secondary market), because odds are you will learn more about what you love over time, and experimenting is part of the joy. 3 years ago even, I wouldn’t have known all of above when I first bought the 2Qute, but I dipped my feet in with the Mojo, loved that, and my appreciation for Chord has remained. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ |
This should be easy, go over to ASR and filter the database by SINAD for the money, done. I wish I could say that it was that easy for me. If that were the case, I'd have the Benchmark hooked up and sold the BorderPatrol. Turns out, my preferences don't align to perfect measurement... but when you really think about it, I think most people don't. Not a perfect analogy, but I bet everyone here also knows someone who (some what annoyingly) way overuses Instagram filters in their photography. Is that a more accurate representation of the picture? Definitely not. Does it give them some joy / describe a mood / something else emotional the original did not? Likely. |
I've been happy with my exaSound e32 Mark II, which does DSD and MQA. Since it's only sold through the manufacturer the argument would be you get more for your $2,500. https://exasound.com/Products/e32MarkIIDAC.aspx |
Without any reservation the latest from mojo audio $25-2700 with the Staccato Descreet opamps x4 9 Bellison super regulators, over 247k in capacitors, caddock 132 resistors R2R Classic Analog devises 1865 premium multi bit dac , scientific grade AC filtering hand biased matched channelsDC offset .this is a maxed out Hotrodded. i compared vs Schiit latest Yaggs, Chords $5k unit .this dac sounds so much more accurate, build quality wise nothing even at 2x the money has premium parts quality of this caliber. it may cost $200 more for the Staccato descreet opamp upgrade which run in pure Class-A and a 45 days audition it is thst good ,and a 5 year warranty |
In this price category you might be surprised by the quality of the humble $799 Topping D90 MQA DAC. I was really impressed by this little guy, playing a DSD stream via balanced connections through a Stax SRM-007tii and SR-009 headphones sounds excellent. I agree you need to balance the sound of your equipment and ancillaries to get the solution that works for you, but can highly recommend the D90 (or MQA version) assuming it matches your needs. Good luck. |
+1 re the MHDT Labs Orchid & "
Roll into a WE396A D getter " (which I did). In addition to my strong preference for NOS digital (or really well done R2R), I have a very constrained space on my desktop & the Orchid fits perfectly. I paid the distributor extra to add a 2nd RCA output pair (both pairs are live at all times). This allows me to run one pair into amp+desktop monitors+sub; and the other through any headphone amp that I feel like hearing that day. |
I wish I could say that it was that easy for me. If that were the case, I'd have the Benchmark hooked up and sold the BorderPatrol. Turns out, my preferences don't align to perfect measurement... but when you really think about it, I think most people don't. Not a perfect analogy, but I bet everyone here also knows someone who (some what annoyingly) way overuses Instagram filters in their photography. Is that a more accurate representation of the picture? Definitely not. Does it give them some joy / describe a mood / something else emotional the original did not? Likely.DAC's aren't at all like Speakers, or even Power Amps when it comes to adding flavor to sound systems. 20 years ago, when I was young and impressionable I might have agreed with you, but when the goal is converting 0's and 1's to an analog waveform, measured performance really should be king, imo. If you want to add a sonic signature that you find pleasing to your system I feel like the equipment to do that with are primarily speakers, followed by amps. Sources, which DAC's are, now that the majority of people are using computer based front end's, should be as clean as possible, and SINAD is one of the best ways to measure that. |
I have a Yiggy with a tube pre and a SEP amp with Zu speakers . I like it very much . But honestly , I’ve very little to compare it to . So many people recommend what they like . But only a few have heard a variety and even fewer in THEIR SYSTEM . Search the threads that give a tonal comparison of numerous DAC’s by a single person. Utilize a return policy . But the Schiit Yiggy gives you 15 days . So you’ll have to burn it in for 14 and try to make a decision. Also having a R2R Dac, I leave it powered 24/7. A good buy used would allow a resale without a loss . I very much am Pining for a Border Patrol, but I’ve never heard one . The Chinese stuff at this price pout looks awesome , if you’re ok with buying Chinese . Happy hunting , Mike . |
DAC's aren't at all like Speakers, or even Power Amps when it comes to adding flavor to sound systems. 20 years ago, when I was young and impressionable I might have agreed with you, but when the goal is converting 0's and 1's to an analog waveform, measured performance really should be king, imo. If you want to add a sonic signature that you find pleasing to your system I feel like the equipment to do that with are primarily speakers, followed by amps. Does that thinking translate to cartridges? After all, they are a source too. It's an analog-to-analog conversion, but to stay logically consistent, why should deviation from accuracy have any place there either? This is a hobby entirely of personal preferences -- and I assume most people put their enjoyment of music over the accuracy of a given piece of equipment's measurement. I would never claim the Border Patrol is the most accurate DAC – I 100% trust the measurements that say it is not. But given I have a Benchmark DAC sitting inches from it, and have put 100s (maybe 1000s?) of hours into listening to both, in same system, I feel pretty confident knowing which one I enjoy more. For arguments sake, I could even buy someone saying "there's a mental trick/placebo thing going on and you are fooling yourself" and my response would be "OK, maybe you are right... but I'm not looking to cure cancer with this DAC, and if I'm fooling myself into this much pleasure, please don't give me the real medicine if it lowers my enjoyment" And isn't maximizing enjoyment ultimately the dimension that the OP is most likely aiming for within the $2,500 budget? Of course, if the question was "which is the best measuring DAC where I can be happy with the graphs it produces?" then we are having a totally different discussion and I'd only point to the BP as what *not* to do. |
DAC’s aren’t at all like Speakers, or even Power Amps when it comes to adding flavor to sound systems. 20 years ago, when I was young and impressionable I might have agreed with you, but when the goal is converting 0’s and 1’s to an analog waveform, measured performance really should be king, imo. If you want to add a sonic signature that you find pleasing to your system I feel like the equipment to do that with are primarily speakers, followed by amps.This is exactly as I see it now after about 20 years. A super clean DAC and preamp make even middling amplification and my KEF LS50’s sing better than ever. I actually used the SINAD as a guide to my front end choices. |
@kishekar Fantastic post!!! Copying it here, in it's entirety, because it's commendable for it's wisdom and perspective. Thank you. Does that thinking translate to cartridges? After all, they are a source too. It's an analog-to-analog conversion, but to stay logically consistent, why should deviation from accuracy have any place there either? |
As I've noted elsewhere on this forum... I recently obtained a Yggy, which when teamed with the Audio Reseach 5SE preamp, and a A21 / JC-2's driving Linkwitz Orion's, or Harbeth 30.1's - provides exceptional detail resolution, imaging, and holographic soundstage, not too mention the remarkable tone, tenor and texture, PRAT, and all the rest. I was persuaded to try the Yggy, based on all of the various reviews, which maintain that it competes with the very best DAC's available at any price. This experience has convinced me that the R2R Ladder Dacs are superior to all the rest. Though, the various comments that the Denafrips Terminator, or AM Trubador III provide a comparable sound - I think a lot depends on the rest of your system, and how well those components mate with the DAC. I find it difficult to believe it can get much better, than what I've experienced, so far... though I may someday find out. |
I would like to suggest the Matrix X-Sabre Pro, that is under 2000$. High quality each part of it. It sounds better than Chord Qutest and TT, a bit worst (at drum reproduction, drums not as dry as it could be) than the Dave. No headphone amp, but there is volume control. I don't find better DAC for its price. An another more cheaper, measured well solution could be, the already mentioned Topping D90. If you prefer Chord Qutest, suggestion of lot of members, let me to advice to replace the power supply, for example to Allo Shanti, it added some improvement in signal to noise to me. What I found as main weakness, Qutest does not shine in quality of high tones. |
This post is purely for future readers. Although not the best DAC for under $2500 the Wadi di322 ,if you can find one, can be a good deal. The group that controls the brand , as well as Mcintosh, has shelved the brand for now and maybe forever. Hence these DACs can be found for relatively cheap. You can still get service on the units from an outfit in CA. If you call the number on the Wadia support site you get those guys. I have the older 321 which only does PCM. I like the sound and the unit is built like a tank. Only negative so far is the large footprint. http://www.wadia.com/en-us/products/di322 |
I am sure you could find a used Bryston BDA 3 at your upper limit and the performance and versatility that this dac provides is very hard to beat in that price range. I bought one last summer and have really enjoyed it in the 12 months that I have had it. Yes I wished that I had waited and bought the Bryston 3.14 with the streamer attached, but it wasn't available back then. |
+1
georgehifi
& kennyc The Denafrips Terminator is a well performing DAC, if one can be obtained within your budget, it's not likely to disappoint. Every decent piece of audio equipment that you listen to that impresses you, has been painstakingly designed by electronic engineers/audiophiles that use EE laws, measurements, specs and use test bench gear to design those pieces.I've read so many members stating that measurements don't matter, I can't account for your experiences where something measures really bad and sounds exceptional to you... My experience is that equipment that can read measurement extremely well (the microphone), aught to confirm that which your ears are telling you are highly resolving. Measurement will back you up, if it's a device that performs with excellence. And if you think it sounds excellent and measures poorly, it just may mean you're accustomed to a certain "flavor", it may not accurately portray the recorded material. I have worked at a serious boutique loudspeaker manufacturer's factory, and measurement and listening is used throughout the process. Research and painstaking matching of specifications and research into technology that performs aught to be habit, excellence isn't accidental, certainly if it's repeatable. Just as georgehifi states. |
I have many dacs some very $$ .i sold a Lampizator amber3 after auditioning this in my home this has a who who of hot rodded brand name parts , and World class classic Analog devises 1865K laser trimmed multi Bit dac ,or R2R great natural sonics these Sabre bit dac can’t duplicate ,power supplies make a big difference in dacs this has 9 of the worlds best Bellison super regulators ,the latest Xmos board, Vishay naked,and Caddock resistors Femto clock, and no ic chips ,Descreet op amps with upgrade for a bit more the Staccato Descreet opamps running in pure class A drop me an email .this bettered my friends Schiit Yaggdrasil and other dacs of much more money,nine have all this superior build quality and 247,000uf of capacitance nothing even remotely close in this price range .and 45 day return,5 yr warranty and made in USA. https://www.mojo-audio.com/mystique-v2x-dac/ |
OP update, I ended up finding an upgrade Audio Mirror Tubadour III for a good deal and hooked that up last week. The difference between it and just running the Node 2i was substantial. The music is less "bright" and not as fatiguing and the realism improved dramatically. A very good investment and a good first step for $1,000. As I upgrade I'll look towards the Terminator but was happy to hear such a dramatic improvement in the music quality with the addition of a separate DAC. Best, Mike |
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@mvrooman1526 Congrats on your purchase! I use a Magna Mano ULTRA Network Streamer with my AMT3-SE, which I purchased because of its I2S output. That is the best input on the dac and I'd encourage you to find a streamer that allows you to use it as an eventual upgrade. Also, if you're feeling the itch in a while, you might consider sending the dac to Vlad for an upgrade to SE status. Everyone who's posted about doing so has given a positive review. And I'll note that multiple posters have preferred the AM to the denefrips terminator. I didn't do that comparison, but did prefer my AM to a PS Audio directstream, lampizator Amber 3, ifi idac pro, matrix x-sabre pro, & Shiit Bifrost 2 in my system. I think you made a wise decision and suspect you will have trouble finding a better dac for anywhere near the current cost of entry... and please do post if you do. |
If you haven't seen it, here's a thread enumerating the streamers with i2s outputs... https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/streamers-with-i2s-connectivity |