+1 for Chord Qutest
However, you really have to use a better DC power supply for it. Forget about the stock wall plug.
However, you really have to use a better DC power supply for it. Forget about the stock wall plug.
Best DAC for around $2,500 or less
What are your opinions on the best DAC for under $2,500? Looking at the Schiit Yggy or many of recommend Denafrips so looking at their Pontus. Any thoughts on how these two compare? It might be misguided by I tend to think your getting a little more for your money with a direct to consumer company like Schiit and I know they are highly regarded for their DACS. Anything else to look at in this price range?
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Initial review of RMI ADI-2 DAC FS: https://taww.co/post/621563416104108032/first-take-review-rme-adi-2-dac-fs I have to agree with some of the comments here - this is a very underrated unit, at least if you are going to use it via balanced outputs. As a point of comparison, I find it a more engaging than the Ayre Codex and likely pretty competitive with the Chord units short of the DAVE. |
Hi, Mine was the original with 4490EQ chip. Don't get me wrong, I truly enjoyed the RME and used it for almost 2 years. It is a wonderful piece for the price. So is the Audio Mirror. The RME dac is crystal clear & allows "peering into" the music due to the extreme detail. Also sound could be tailored to some degree. I did not use an outboard power supply. From what I read the RME dac has a very sophisticated internal power supply. I do understand that power supply quality & implementation is a large part of the SQ provided by any dac. So, I take your point In fact I did just upgrade the power supply on my Linear Tube MICROzotl amp and immediately noticed a sizable improvement to SQ. My opinion is that the Toubador just sounds more like music to me. Of course hat is only MY opinion. Continue to enjoy the ADI 2dac! |
@pastorbob was your RME the earlier or current fs version? Just curious as I have the current model and find it very musical, but that being said I recently upgraded the power supply with a Teddy Pardo and now the RME really sings. Any current RME owners should look into the Teddy. Don’t believe what RME says that changing the power supply will not make a difference. What has improved is lower tighter bottom end, more open and effortless top end with no edge. I don’t play loud but I have noticed on nasty or less quality recordings I can play louder with absolutely no fatigue. Lastly it now was PRaT. From Israel to the US in two weeks for $390... still well under $2,500 for both DAC and PS. Loving this combination. |
The new Channel Island Audio Streamer/DAC clocks in at $2k. I bought one on a whim as there was an introductory special (that may still be going on, need to contact them to find out) that knocked $400 off the price and another $100 if you are an Audio Circle member. I won't say it's the best under $2500 but I was quite surprised at the performance of this DAC and will be keeping it in my system. |
Just picked up the RME ADI-2 da DAC and it is awesome. Replacing a NAD M51 and although the M51 sounds very good the RME has clarity and detail that the NAD just can not match. The feature set set is amazing, little bit of a learning curve. Anyone that thinks they can just use it out of the box is fooling themselves There is a lot to miss if you don’t read the entire manual. That said once I dialed it in it sounded incredible with any and all material although not very forgiving of poor recordings. Not to worry , between the 20 memory 5 band parametric EQ , tone control , and loudness you can get any sound desired well worth $1100. |
I received both the Schiit Bifrost 2 and Border Patrol SE-i recently to compare a couple of well reviewed DACs. I have to say that the Schiit was not very impressive to my ears so that is going to be returned. Sure it sounds nice but overall not a huge difference to what I was getting from my Bluesound Node 2i. Now the Border Patrol on the other hand has been utterly AMAZING! The music this thing makes is beautiful and just so natural and lifelike. I already expected that by the reviews but I’m totally blown away. Also what is really impressive is the bass extension beats the pants off the Schiit which was unexpected. Imaging, soundstage, details are all there in a holographic way. I close my eyes and I’m there with the musicians. Instruments and vocals sound scary real and emotional treat. If there is one knock I have to give it would be the noise floor could be darker but I use a tube amp so that doesn’t help. Just keep in mind the BP does require a high input impedance to match well. Other than that it has taken my system up a huge notch. Gary Dew is a straight shooter and had great communication throughout the ordering process. He hand builds and tests each one before it ships out. Highly recommended DAC for anyone in the market! -Alex |
hgeifman in total agreement.I
suggest the Ayre CODEX DAC. The CODEX DAC has many design features not
commonly found in a DAC that retails for $1,795. One is a pure analog,
linear power supply instead of the more commonly found switching power
supply The Ayre is running expensive Toshiba Jfet outputs that in all my comparisons have not only run up against most all 5 k dacs but surpass as most just dont use them. The CODEX DAC has "A fully-balanced signal path
throughout the analog circuitry provides an inherently clean and quiet
backdrop for your music. The zero-feedback design maintains all of the
pace and rhythm of your favorite artist, rendering your digital music as
effortlessly as if it were live”. Best JohnnyR https://www.ayre.com/products/digital/codex/ |
And because I just got the email correspondence from Ben @ mojo audio, I'll note that he totally disagrees with me (strongly) and doesn't believe in i2s between dacs. He states: In i2s "the clocking and data are divided into three separate signals: bit clock, word clock, and data. In every other form of digital transmission (USB, Ethernet, Thunderbolt, etc) the clocking is embedded into the data stream and then it is asynchronously buffered and reclocked. Think about it: if one clocking stream has the potential to get distorted, why would making three clocking streams that have to be synchronized be better?!?!?!?!?" |
If you haven't seen it, here's a thread enumerating the streamers with i2s outputs... https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/streamers-with-i2s-connectivity |
@mvrooman1526 Congrats on your purchase! I use a Magna Mano ULTRA Network Streamer with my AMT3-SE, which I purchased because of its I2S output. That is the best input on the dac and I'd encourage you to find a streamer that allows you to use it as an eventual upgrade. Also, if you're feeling the itch in a while, you might consider sending the dac to Vlad for an upgrade to SE status. Everyone who's posted about doing so has given a positive review. And I'll note that multiple posters have preferred the AM to the denefrips terminator. I didn't do that comparison, but did prefer my AM to a PS Audio directstream, lampizator Amber 3, ifi idac pro, matrix x-sabre pro, & Shiit Bifrost 2 in my system. I think you made a wise decision and suspect you will have trouble finding a better dac for anywhere near the current cost of entry... and please do post if you do. |
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OP update, I ended up finding an upgrade Audio Mirror Tubadour III for a good deal and hooked that up last week. The difference between it and just running the Node 2i was substantial. The music is less "bright" and not as fatiguing and the realism improved dramatically. A very good investment and a good first step for $1,000. As I upgrade I'll look towards the Terminator but was happy to hear such a dramatic improvement in the music quality with the addition of a separate DAC. Best, Mike |
I have many dacs some very $$ .i sold a Lampizator amber3 after auditioning this in my home this has a who who of hot rodded brand name parts , and World class classic Analog devises 1865K laser trimmed multi Bit dac ,or R2R great natural sonics these Sabre bit dac can’t duplicate ,power supplies make a big difference in dacs this has 9 of the worlds best Bellison super regulators ,the latest Xmos board, Vishay naked,and Caddock resistors Femto clock, and no ic chips ,Descreet op amps with upgrade for a bit more the Staccato Descreet opamps running in pure class A drop me an email .this bettered my friends Schiit Yaggdrasil and other dacs of much more money,nine have all this superior build quality and 247,000uf of capacitance nothing even remotely close in this price range .and 45 day return,5 yr warranty and made in USA. https://www.mojo-audio.com/mystique-v2x-dac/ |
+1
georgehifi
& kennyc The Denafrips Terminator is a well performing DAC, if one can be obtained within your budget, it's not likely to disappoint. Every decent piece of audio equipment that you listen to that impresses you, has been painstakingly designed by electronic engineers/audiophiles that use EE laws, measurements, specs and use test bench gear to design those pieces.I've read so many members stating that measurements don't matter, I can't account for your experiences where something measures really bad and sounds exceptional to you... My experience is that equipment that can read measurement extremely well (the microphone), aught to confirm that which your ears are telling you are highly resolving. Measurement will back you up, if it's a device that performs with excellence. And if you think it sounds excellent and measures poorly, it just may mean you're accustomed to a certain "flavor", it may not accurately portray the recorded material. I have worked at a serious boutique loudspeaker manufacturer's factory, and measurement and listening is used throughout the process. Research and painstaking matching of specifications and research into technology that performs aught to be habit, excellence isn't accidental, certainly if it's repeatable. Just as georgehifi states. |
I am sure you could find a used Bryston BDA 3 at your upper limit and the performance and versatility that this dac provides is very hard to beat in that price range. I bought one last summer and have really enjoyed it in the 12 months that I have had it. Yes I wished that I had waited and bought the Bryston 3.14 with the streamer attached, but it wasn't available back then. |
This post is purely for future readers. Although not the best DAC for under $2500 the Wadi di322 ,if you can find one, can be a good deal. The group that controls the brand , as well as Mcintosh, has shelved the brand for now and maybe forever. Hence these DACs can be found for relatively cheap. You can still get service on the units from an outfit in CA. If you call the number on the Wadia support site you get those guys. I have the older 321 which only does PCM. I like the sound and the unit is built like a tank. Only negative so far is the large footprint. http://www.wadia.com/en-us/products/di322 |
I would like to suggest the Matrix X-Sabre Pro, that is under 2000$. High quality each part of it. It sounds better than Chord Qutest and TT, a bit worst (at drum reproduction, drums not as dry as it could be) than the Dave. No headphone amp, but there is volume control. I don't find better DAC for its price. An another more cheaper, measured well solution could be, the already mentioned Topping D90. If you prefer Chord Qutest, suggestion of lot of members, let me to advice to replace the power supply, for example to Allo Shanti, it added some improvement in signal to noise to me. What I found as main weakness, Qutest does not shine in quality of high tones. |
As I've noted elsewhere on this forum... I recently obtained a Yggy, which when teamed with the Audio Reseach 5SE preamp, and a A21 / JC-2's driving Linkwitz Orion's, or Harbeth 30.1's - provides exceptional detail resolution, imaging, and holographic soundstage, not too mention the remarkable tone, tenor and texture, PRAT, and all the rest. I was persuaded to try the Yggy, based on all of the various reviews, which maintain that it competes with the very best DAC's available at any price. This experience has convinced me that the R2R Ladder Dacs are superior to all the rest. Though, the various comments that the Denafrips Terminator, or AM Trubador III provide a comparable sound - I think a lot depends on the rest of your system, and how well those components mate with the DAC. I find it difficult to believe it can get much better, than what I've experienced, so far... though I may someday find out. |
@kishekar Fantastic post!!! Copying it here, in it's entirety, because it's commendable for it's wisdom and perspective. Thank you. Does that thinking translate to cartridges? After all, they are a source too. It's an analog-to-analog conversion, but to stay logically consistent, why should deviation from accuracy have any place there either? |
DAC’s aren’t at all like Speakers, or even Power Amps when it comes to adding flavor to sound systems. 20 years ago, when I was young and impressionable I might have agreed with you, but when the goal is converting 0’s and 1’s to an analog waveform, measured performance really should be king, imo. If you want to add a sonic signature that you find pleasing to your system I feel like the equipment to do that with are primarily speakers, followed by amps.This is exactly as I see it now after about 20 years. A super clean DAC and preamp make even middling amplification and my KEF LS50’s sing better than ever. I actually used the SINAD as a guide to my front end choices. |
DAC's aren't at all like Speakers, or even Power Amps when it comes to adding flavor to sound systems. 20 years ago, when I was young and impressionable I might have agreed with you, but when the goal is converting 0's and 1's to an analog waveform, measured performance really should be king, imo. If you want to add a sonic signature that you find pleasing to your system I feel like the equipment to do that with are primarily speakers, followed by amps. Does that thinking translate to cartridges? After all, they are a source too. It's an analog-to-analog conversion, but to stay logically consistent, why should deviation from accuracy have any place there either? This is a hobby entirely of personal preferences -- and I assume most people put their enjoyment of music over the accuracy of a given piece of equipment's measurement. I would never claim the Border Patrol is the most accurate DAC – I 100% trust the measurements that say it is not. But given I have a Benchmark DAC sitting inches from it, and have put 100s (maybe 1000s?) of hours into listening to both, in same system, I feel pretty confident knowing which one I enjoy more. For arguments sake, I could even buy someone saying "there's a mental trick/placebo thing going on and you are fooling yourself" and my response would be "OK, maybe you are right... but I'm not looking to cure cancer with this DAC, and if I'm fooling myself into this much pleasure, please don't give me the real medicine if it lowers my enjoyment" And isn't maximizing enjoyment ultimately the dimension that the OP is most likely aiming for within the $2,500 budget? Of course, if the question was "which is the best measuring DAC where I can be happy with the graphs it produces?" then we are having a totally different discussion and I'd only point to the BP as what *not* to do. |
I have a Yiggy with a tube pre and a SEP amp with Zu speakers . I like it very much . But honestly , I’ve very little to compare it to . So many people recommend what they like . But only a few have heard a variety and even fewer in THEIR SYSTEM . Search the threads that give a tonal comparison of numerous DAC’s by a single person. Utilize a return policy . But the Schiit Yiggy gives you 15 days . So you’ll have to burn it in for 14 and try to make a decision. Also having a R2R Dac, I leave it powered 24/7. A good buy used would allow a resale without a loss . I very much am Pining for a Border Patrol, but I’ve never heard one . The Chinese stuff at this price pout looks awesome , if you’re ok with buying Chinese . Happy hunting , Mike . |
I wish I could say that it was that easy for me. If that were the case, I'd have the Benchmark hooked up and sold the BorderPatrol. Turns out, my preferences don't align to perfect measurement... but when you really think about it, I think most people don't. Not a perfect analogy, but I bet everyone here also knows someone who (some what annoyingly) way overuses Instagram filters in their photography. Is that a more accurate representation of the picture? Definitely not. Does it give them some joy / describe a mood / something else emotional the original did not? Likely.DAC's aren't at all like Speakers, or even Power Amps when it comes to adding flavor to sound systems. 20 years ago, when I was young and impressionable I might have agreed with you, but when the goal is converting 0's and 1's to an analog waveform, measured performance really should be king, imo. If you want to add a sonic signature that you find pleasing to your system I feel like the equipment to do that with are primarily speakers, followed by amps. Sources, which DAC's are, now that the majority of people are using computer based front end's, should be as clean as possible, and SINAD is one of the best ways to measure that. |
+1 re the MHDT Labs Orchid & "
Roll into a WE396A D getter " (which I did). In addition to my strong preference for NOS digital (or really well done R2R), I have a very constrained space on my desktop & the Orchid fits perfectly. I paid the distributor extra to add a 2nd RCA output pair (both pairs are live at all times). This allows me to run one pair into amp+desktop monitors+sub; and the other through any headphone amp that I feel like hearing that day. |
In this price category you might be surprised by the quality of the humble $799 Topping D90 MQA DAC. I was really impressed by this little guy, playing a DSD stream via balanced connections through a Stax SRM-007tii and SR-009 headphones sounds excellent. I agree you need to balance the sound of your equipment and ancillaries to get the solution that works for you, but can highly recommend the D90 (or MQA version) assuming it matches your needs. Good luck. |
Without any reservation the latest from mojo audio $25-2700 with the Staccato Descreet opamps x4 9 Bellison super regulators, over 247k in capacitors, caddock 132 resistors R2R Classic Analog devises 1865 premium multi bit dac , scientific grade AC filtering hand biased matched channelsDC offset .this is a maxed out Hotrodded. i compared vs Schiit latest Yaggs, Chords $5k unit .this dac sounds so much more accurate, build quality wise nothing even at 2x the money has premium parts quality of this caliber. it may cost $200 more for the Staccato descreet opamp upgrade which run in pure Class-A and a 45 days audition it is thst good ,and a 5 year warranty |
I've been happy with my exaSound e32 Mark II, which does DSD and MQA. Since it's only sold through the manufacturer the argument would be you get more for your $2,500. https://exasound.com/Products/e32MarkIIDAC.aspx |
This should be easy, go over to ASR and filter the database by SINAD for the money, done. I wish I could say that it was that easy for me. If that were the case, I'd have the Benchmark hooked up and sold the BorderPatrol. Turns out, my preferences don't align to perfect measurement... but when you really think about it, I think most people don't. Not a perfect analogy, but I bet everyone here also knows someone who (some what annoyingly) way overuses Instagram filters in their photography. Is that a more accurate representation of the picture? Definitely not. Does it give them some joy / describe a mood / something else emotional the original did not? Likely. |
There is no ’Best’, and really no way around trying to figure out what your own preferences are based on listening. Someone's "this DAC is overperforming over that DAC" comment need to be taken in context that their definition of overperforming may not be yours. I currently own all three of below, and appreciate them all in their own way: Chord 2Qute (predecessor to the Qutest, which likely is another level of improvement) - may daily driver in my ’main’ system of Naim 282/250/ATC19s because I love the balance between great insight while still feeling a certain drive and ’verve’ (sorry, terrible word) to the music that keeps my attention Benchmark 2 (currently used as headphone amp, not in a system otherwise) - wow, the most insight/clarity/detail out of any of the DACs. it’s remarkable what details it can pull out of tracks you thought you knew. But for day-to-day listening, it is *not* my preference, so important to understand what may sound most technically accomplished may not be what you prefer day in and day out BorderPatrol SEi (currently in my office w/ a Supernait 2 and ProAc Tablette 10s) - probably listen to as much if not more than my main system during this WFH era, and I absolutely love this DAC, especially with the tube engaged in the rectifier. Yes, it doesn’t do high rez, and yes I know it has crap measurements in Stereophile... but I can listen and love Roon streaming in background for hours a day and every once in a while between meetings really crank it up and I am in heaven. All of which is a long way of saying, absolute $s and tech specs can’t tell you what you’ll end up liking. Consider buying used (or something new with a healthy secondary market), because odds are you will learn more about what you love over time, and experimenting is part of the joy. 3 years ago even, I wouldn’t have known all of above when I first bought the 2Qute, but I dipped my feet in with the Mojo, loved that, and my appreciation for Chord has remained. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ |
Here are my comments from my listening experiences - don't take them personally please I build a R2R DAC but way out of your price range. From what has been mentioned above - I was not impressed at all with the following: Wyred Schitt Benchmark Mytek Lampy AMber Bel Canto In your price range: Ayre Codex - heard this at Audio Connections - very nice sounding Audio Mirror - see SnoPro comments regarding his comparison of the Denafrips - I trust his ears personally - I think there are upgrades offered for this unit I would also look into the Electrocompinient (spelling) - I heard this over the weekend and it was way musical and open with excellent sound stage dimension - so musical you could listen all day long to any type of music. Also, just because a DAC has R2R does not mean anything unless the design is good. The DAC we offer has an R2R discrete but it also has a 30 pound power supply, uses V-Capacitors, AC filter chokes, copper plates, etc. I have also built the same design using the Sanbre 32 bit. Both sound excellent - we prefer the R2R for overall musicality. You can by R2R DACs form China that would not sound anywhere in the same league. No offense please.- your experiences may be much different that what my ears heard. Happy Listening |
I have had Oppo 105 and Oppo 205 used as DACs. Also Had Wyred DAC2 v2. Better than all of those is the Matrix Audio X-Sabre https://matrix-digi.com/en/products/318.html They are good enough for a friend's TAD References. Although an apples vs oranges comparison they are a better product than my magicos. |
i would consider, in no particular order:
You also need to ask "do i want a network connected DAC or is USB/SPDIF sufficient?". I strongly urge getting a network connected DAC. It;’s at least as good sounding and seriously flexible/convenient. Some reasons it is technically (sonically) superior too. |