Bad news for home theater enthusiasts

Well, at least they got the Women’s World Cup to help cushion the blow. 

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise 

I am not surprised given declining sales of physical media. Anyone with a Disney channel subscription can see why Disney would likely discontinue producing physical discs. As far streaming quality, It comes down to your your subscription package. My Hulu subscription includes Disney channel, the new releases packs the identical stunning picture quality + Dolby Atmos audio as in 4K discs. I have not bought any of the Disney’s new releases over a year now. 

I don’t want physical discs to go away but I believe they are near their run. 

There are still millions of DVD's available so that supply ain't gonna run out any time soon!

I recently bought on eBay a nice Samsung HD841 DVD/CD/SACD for $26. Plenty of choices on the used market!

@lalitk 

According to the article:

Quality: Although the quality of streaming video has improved over the years, it is still dependent on the viewer’s broadband speed. Unfortunately, not all consumers have access to or can afford the internet speed that will deliver the best possible quality. 

Using Disney+ as an example, an internet speed of 5.0 Mbps is the minimum required for HD content, while 25.0 Mbps is for viewing 4K UHD content. Other streaming services have similar requirements. 

Although standard definition DVD quality can be easily provided to most streaming viewers, physical 1080p Blu-ray supports transfer rates of up to 48 Mbps, and UHD Blu-ray supports transfer rates of up to 128 Mbps. The only streaming service that can support more than 40mbps is Sony Bravia Core which provides up to 80mbps. However, that is only available to owners of select Sony Bravia Smart TVs. Disney+ and Netflix are nowhere near that level yet. 

This means that streaming services have to use sophisticated compression techniques to try to deliver equivalent quality to their subscribers despite low transfer speeds. However, they don’t necessarily reach that goal.

So if they're going to take away the physical medium, they'd better up their game on the streaming end. I've always noticed the downgrading of video and audio quality through cable compared to disc playing. I'm stuck with Spectrum cable. 

All the best,
Nonoise

I think the main takeaway here is that Disney's Marvel assets aren't holding up.

jasonbourne71

388 posts

08-01-2023 at 04:39pm 

There are still millions of DVD's available so that supply ain't gonna run out any time soon!

Yup. Including all future movies that have not been shot & released yet 😱 😲

All one has to do is watch anything well made from Lawrence of Arabia to Dune on Blu Ray and then compare it to streaming on cable. So much is lost in translation, so to speak. 

Taking away discs will force some to go back to the theaters, get soaked in ticket and food costs, and still get a loss in quality compared to a good home set up, like most of us here have even with our two channel set ups.

I, myself, have outgrown the theater experience as the audiences are coarse as well compared to ones in my day. Too much noise and distractions that take away from the experience.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise 

Agreed, it’s going to be a while before everyone can take advantage of gigabit speeds. My streaming content both audio and video took a substantial leap when I upgraded to Gigabit speed (thanks to Infinity). Another key factor, wired ethernet to my Apple TV, brought much needed stability to my streaming. Also, I kept up with the tech upgrades every 2-3 years to take advantage of latest updates and features.

While I have not compared the two features you mentioned, I did compare Disney’s Jungle Book and had hard time distinguishing between the 4K Blu Ray and Stream on my Sony 4K OLED and Dolby Atmos setup. In any case, I get your point; not everything you own on disc may not look as good with streaming content.

What bugs me is that many years ago I read a post on an online blog from a tech who used to work for a cable TV service. He said that the cable boxes we using then were throttled down versions of the ones they use in Japan and barely operate at half the speeds they're made for. It was intentional from the get go. 

There was some mention of having to build up the infrastructure and they're just too cheap to do so, scrubbing every penny they can, so they take their time doing so. We could have been up and running at speeds that would eclipse the needs of the medium a long time ago but again, profits got in the way. Rant over.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise 

I hear you! I am rolling with the times and feel fortunate to afford and enjoy latest tech while my faculties are still intact. In 15-20 years, none of this will matter unless the new tech comes aboard with audio/video tone controls 🤣

@lalitk 

Hopefully by then they'll have perfected it without cost being a consideration, or at least factored in. 👍

Netflix ends their DVD.com disc service this September as well.
For me the Blu-Ray discs sound and picture quality just seems much better than streaming.  Gonna miss Blu-Ray discs.

The debate is not about quality so much as access.

Also: studios don’t like paying residuals to actors, directors or union health funds either, streaming helps them out with that.

Your network is the key. I have had gigabit networks for over 6 years and 4 of them were fiber. Fiber is the ultimate because it’s fiber which is much less noisy which you can see and hear in streaming, lowest latencies, and ultra low jitter.

Also, not all Blu-ray players are the same. Anybody can pick up a used blu-ray for $10, but those units are pretty bad compared to day the Oppo or other quality players

@jkeitel  It's all about greed. When Warner Bros was taken over, again, my sister was among the ones who were forced out to make way for people who have no idea how to run a studio, let alone make movies, and streaming is their way of recouping their investment. 

@p05129 Totally agree but don't let jasonbourne71 hear that.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise Sorry to hear the WB merger cost your sister her job.

Sadly it’s not about art or people or quality, just money..

@jkeitel Thanks for that. My sister had over 28 years there and when they took over, practically all of Warner Bros collective talent over all those decades were given the axe. From top to bottom they just slaughtered the industry and ruined a community that thrived for generations. 

The guy who took over (I forget his name) said he dreamed for a long time of destroying the business model. I could never get my head around why they'd hire a psychopath like that and a year or so later he was kicked out for his crummy, money losing decisions with a big fat payday. Oh well, my sister was planning on retiring but it came a bit earlier than she wanted. Take care.

All the best,
Nonoise

Well living in a rural area how is streaming on High Speed DSL going to work out ??

@nonoise is this where you say there are so many boxes involved in cable and that is why it worse quality again?

And you are still wrong, the absolute best home cinema quality is achieved with streaming, Kaleidescape, way higher bandwidth than a 4K UHD Blu-ray. 

I’m going to start stocking up on VHS myself - my analog retirement plan. See cassettes. 

@fredrik222 can't be more correct. Kaleidescape is the only way to go when watching movies. 10x streaming's bandwidth. You haven't heard your sound system until you have tried one as your source. Picture is pristine. Both better than Blu Ray. Find your local dealer - they have a demo that they can drop off at your home for you to try out for a couple of days.

I am one of the luddites who still rents DVDs and Bluerays.  One thing few people talk about is depth of catalog.  Netflix DVD rental offers something like 100,000 titles, including many indie and foreign films, as well as music performance videos.  The Netflix streaming catalog is probably less than half the size of the disc rental catalog.  Sure DVD res and audio stink compared to BD and even streaming, but that doesn't matter if DVD is the only format a given film is offered in.  I had about 1000 films on two Netflix rental ques when they announced they were pulling the plug.  Dozens of great films and musical performances that aren't available on streaming will be lost to me forever, unless I want to purchase them, assuming they are even available in disc form.  It's really a shame.  If Netflix would duplicate their disc catalog for streaming, I would pay up for it.  Perhaps a multi-tiered subscription plan, like some other streaming services offer, could offer more indie and foreign releases.  Are you listening, Netflix?  

"Streaming" is a generic term with a lot of variables. That said, file transfer over the internet will be able to exceed the quality of physical media. Same thing with CDs, People think streaming music is not as good as physical media when the "better than CD quality" is already out there in the form of hi-res audio files. Will be the same for video. The only limitations will be what the provider offers, but the technology and infrastructure is already there and capable.

Stinks that physical media will fade away.  When I’ve done a/b comparisons a Blu-ray wins verses streaming but makes sense, the physical discs can hold a lot more data.  Not all streaming services are created equal, Apple TV tends to deliver the best picture sound, Disney Plus also was an early leader.  I’m sure streaming will evolve, hopefully it will.  I will say streaming a movies today that’s Dolby atmos is a step up from where it was several years ago but most services subscribe to the MP3 philosophy, achieving a certain level of information when it comes to soundtracks in movies is good enough, the incremental improvements after that aren’t noticed, Netflix follows this philosophy along with others.  These threads are great as you always learn about new products, I am going to look into the Kaleidescape, didn’t realize there was anything available that upped the ante on what’s possible streaming when it comes to movies.  

dean_palmer

... file transfer over the internet will be able to exceed the quality of physical media ... the technology and infrastructure is already there and capable.

No, the infrastructure is not "already there." Not even close, especially in the US.

Why you think physical media is inherently inferior to streaming?

Over the years, my wife and I have collected over a thousand DVD’s and Bluerays and we hardly ever watch any of them. I listen to music a couple of hours a day and maybe watch tv an hour or two a night. We thought that with retirement, we watch more movies, but it hasn’t worked that way.

@fredrik222 

Ah, I see the resident crank is here to ply his craft. I said physical medium is better than streaming. You come back with another form of physical medium I never brought up (in a way agreeing with me) and then calling me out on it for not mentioning that particular one.

A player that costs $4K without any internal storage and requires servers that run from $5K - $31.4K depending how they're bundled. Get real. 

Rather lame but quite on point for someone who stalks these threads with a grudge  spoiling for a fight. Get a life as well.

All the best,
Nonoise

Streaming quality sucks and there's no excuse for it.

No one has any clue if it's gonna get better anytime soon

@nonoise  Looked in the mirror much? Here is the post where you state that the number of boxes and cables are the issues with the low quality for Cable TV:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ethernet-cables-7?page=2

And really, price is an issue, people on this forum have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on their systems, but now suddenly price is an issue. Lol.

Again, @nonoise , you inject yourself in conversation where you have no experience, expertise, or knowledge at all, then then you call others cranks. 

@fredrik222 

freddy, you're nothing but a numbers man, a bean counter. Your other hobby is collecting high end pocket protectors and slide rulers. Your services were of value at one point in your life but hanging out on an audio site to bust the chops of it's members is laughable.

I think practically every member would (and has) agreed with me on that thread. Some even PM'd me to thank me on that. They hear a difference. Others joined in to say the same thing as well and continue to do so and you continue to butt in on their threads to rain on their parade as best you can. Your ego knows no bounds which is your Achilles Heel. You're predictable

Are you hoping members here are going to stumble on all the data protocols you posted and be impressed? Or the argument you put out that until anyone smarter than you comes along, you're automatically right?

People on this thread have already stated they're into streaming and that entails getting the best service for the money. Sinking up to $35K on a video player would be ridiculous. Yes, the ultra wealthy could afford it but for you to imagine that everyone here has hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in their systems shows just how out of touch you are. What's it like having one foot in and one foot out of reality?

As for injecting myself into this conversation, that big brain of yours overlooks the fact that I started this conversation. In your petulant need for revenge, you went and made yourself look petty and ridiculous, again.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise  let me amend my statement, You continuously start new discussions and inject yourself into conversation where you have no experience, knowledge, or anything relevant to contribute. When called out, you attack people. 

Kaleidascape is a streaming service, and it starts at 7k, which is the one I have, and it has superior quality to Bluray. 

But hey, it proves my point, you don't know anything, and you don't even try to educate yourself, you are quite literally just NOISE. 

I care about this hobby, and I want to get the best I can afford and that makes sense for my house, and I am certainly not ultra wealthy. Again, insanely silly to talk about price on a forum where people spends tens of thousands on a power cable.... 

@fredrik222 That was the lamest of apologies ever (lies, slander and spin) but it'll do. Coming from you, that's the best anyone could hope for. 

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise  It wasn't an apology, no idea how you thought that. 

But consider yourself educated, again, about the best video platform out there. Not that it will matter in the future, see previous point about your willingness to learn.

And that folks, is what's know as saving face masked in a parting shot while whistling past the graveyard.

All the best,
Nonoise

Who streams  5.1 audio?

@fredrik222 :

Kaleidascape is a streaming service, and it starts at 7k, which is the one I have, and it has superior quality to Bluray. 

So you bitch and moan about people paying a few hundred bucks for cables or Ethernet filters and tweaks, but you pay $35,000+ for video (including storage and extras)? What the irony. And people are not allowed to discuss prices in your Uber expensive video stuff, but they should throw a tantrum if one spends 1/10th of that in audio? Ridiculous 

 Nice to know alternative choices exist but 7k+++in Hardware plus $20 per video to rent. Ouuch!  Not worth it for me…will be interesting to see how the HT streaming media quality evolves.  I will miss my $20  a month netflix unlimited Blu-Ray’s.

@nonoise 

My OPPO BDP-103 is old

This is a waste of space, trash it, sell it, get rid of it. What about your amp, is it decent? What about your speakers? Are they old too? If I were you I would put it all on ebay and start fresh. First, make sure your network is noise free as possible. Next, find a streamer you like. If you want media its on sale everywhere. I don't think they will run out in the next 50 years or so. As for what BR player to buy it depends on your budget and what you will use it for. The limitation of the Panny is no SACD. The Sony Signature models are amazing and will play everything but you need to buy them used. If you are handy with ripping get a Zidoo player.

As for Disney LOL, that company is a dumpster fire.

@kota1 

You're insane, you know that, right? You're not the authority you present yourself to be and look all the more foolish the more you spout off. Do you get hit a lot for talking the way you do?

All the best,
Nonoise

@thyname one actually makes a huge difference, the others doesn’t, yet people tell newbies they absolutely must spend thousands of dollars on things that cannot work. It is not a few hundred dollars.

I’m guess this might be a market for Kaleidoscope or similar competitors. You can download an uncompressed digital copy to a local hard drive.

https://www.kaleidescape.com

Nope. Never did. Your statements are just proof of your psychosis. Soon, little man, you'll be getting a time out from Admin.

All the best,
Nonoise

I recently had a few people over to watch a movie on my OPPO-205 to which I’ve added a linear power supply and improved IEC.  We then went through my library of movies on Blu-ray and even plain old DVD and compared portions of them to their streaming equivalent on my Apple TV and Xbox Series X via my gigabit internet, courtesy of Ting.  The video and sound goes through an Anthem 70, feeding a 77 inch Sony 4K OLED and a 9.2.6 system.  My living room has very slowly become quite the man-cave….  

We all agreed that with my setup, at least, the physical media looked, and especially, sounded noticeably better.  Even older movies that weren’t at 4K originally had deeper colors with better contrast, and the sound coming out of the OPPO was less compressed, especially in the upper registers.  The opening sequence of Maverick, for example, was so much more visceral coming out of the OPPO than when streamed via the Apple or Xbox.

Maybe this is due to compression employed by the streaming services?  Maybe my streaming devices just can’t match the hardware of the OPPO?  All I know is that I’m going to miss both the quality and the depth of selection that the Netflix DVD service provided.  Sure I can still buy some physical media, but being able to have a high quality borrowing library was great all these years.   

We are all going to become Blu-Ray/DVD hoarders the same way we are hoarding records, LOL.  

Wouldn't it be wonderful if OTA 4K broadcasts became a thing? I seem to remember one company who was doing 1080i or p cable broadcasts OTA until they got a court order to stop. The people in the community loved it. They said they'll be back but that was some 2-3 years ago.

Another valid reason to breaking up monopolies.

All the best,
Nonoise