Bad news for home theater enthusiasts

@oldrooney Everyone's out to make a buck. We're old enough to remember free OTA and then came the ON Box. It's been downhill ever since. Contact my congressman I will as they're very receptive where I live but once the smell of profit and a captive audience start to converge, it's tough to fight, but worth the challenge. Take care.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise Development of OTA (Over-the-Air) broadcasts is moving in the opposite direction. According to the Antenna Man (on YouTube) and others, providers are seeking permission from the government to ENCRYPT their broadcasts in order to lock in their subscribers. Talk about a profit motive! You are encouraged to contact your representative to put a stop to it. 

Agreed, LP sales will never get back to pre-CD numbers. I upgraded my front end for streaming by getting a streamer with built in ARC room correction and a Sony TAZH1-ES DAC that has a DSD remastering engine that actually works whether I am playing Spotify, an MP3 or any other file, it is played back in DSD. It still ain’t vinyl but a big step up from the raw non DSD streams.

@kota1 LPs used to be the dominant force in music, then it diminished so far it was almost extinct.  Growth from ground zero is not indicative of of shift in the masses consumption pattern.  A good analogy is tube gear.

tues and vinyl will always be with us,   Technology moves on and CDs, video media will remain, but drift into the edges of mainstream use.  I personally prefer the sound of a vinyl rig, but have succumbed to the ease of streaming.  Just like I store backups on the cloud instead of floppy disks, separate hard drives, or memory sticks. 

@lhasaguy 

Streaming will soon take over from physical media

Did you know the fastest growing category in audio is LP sales?

https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/

Do you remember how 3D discs came and left without a whimper? I have a 3D capable setup and still like it. The good news is 3D discs are now found at around $3 a disc and up used. When 4K blue rays came out regular bluerays can be scooped up dirt chaep used. I go on ebay and buy cartons of CD's in storage cases for less than $1 a disc. In two years or so I will be doing the same with the 4K discs being sold today at $30 a pop or so. Of course I still enjoy streaming but when I can buy a disc for about the same cost of a rental online its easy to do both.

BTW, if you want to make your media POP take a look at Zidoo players, yowsa!

I was engaged in a similar discussion in 2009 with Macdadtexas where he claimed Blu-Ray was already toast because streaming was so convenient and good enough for most people including him.  Fourteen years later we are lamenting the pending loss of the hard format.  

Streaming quality has improved in the interim, but there is a lot of texture in both sound and video quality between services and titles, and on average I much prefer the sound quality of Blu-Rays to streamed content.  I think for audiophiles there is a lot be concerned about in losing Blu-Ray as an option as the streaming networks focus on the average consumer and costs.  Perhaps once everyone has a very big data pipe from source to home this wont matter, and content providers will step up their game, but there seems little incentive now.  I am going to start loading up on reference Blu-Ray disks ASAP.

Time and technology march on. Streaming will soon take over from physical media and as some have observed, current replay means  for video will become a niche like vinyl.   Two reasons, first is cost to provider and the second is ease and range of access.  
 

One only has to look at computers to see a parallel.  Thirty years ago we bought programs that we loaded, now we down load or use the cloud.   More now moving to cloud access, particularly at the enterprise level.  The same is happening to video, following the lead of music.  I have over 1,000 CDs that gather dust for the most part.  I suspect I am in the majority there.

You'd have to ask your kids.

Has Disney made anything worth watching in the last 10 years?

Saying that 3/4 of an hour after the dust has settled and the argument is over. 👍

Stop it children.   

@nonoise hahaha, in your mind, and only your mind. Well, your ignorance made me laugh finally, so I guess it is time to call it on this.

@fredrik222 Nope. What people are bringing are truckloads of popcorn to watch you self destruct.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise nope. All I have done is point out that you don’t do basic research or have any knowledge about what you post. Your response has been attacks, which means nothing, and hopefully people are take everything you post with a truckload of salt. 
 

@fredrik222 There's a whole lotta projection going on with you regarding personal attacks, freddy. That's all you've done so far, hunting and pecking, hunting and pecking. Remember kaleidoscope?

Your last shining moment.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise  and there you go again, when pointed out that you don't know anything at all, again, you go for personal attacks. 

Just do everyone a favor, and stop posting, because your post lack any resemblance of value.

@fredrik222 You're festering fascination with me is leading you to another of your famous Kaleidoscopic moments. Can't wait for that meltdown. You ASR types are wound way too tight.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise  I am not trying to put you down at all, you do that all by yourself. I am just pointing out your ignorance on every topic you have an opinion about.

And again, your lack of knowledge about this industry: 

• OTA isn't for every channel, never was since the introduction of cable, and there are several reasons for this, technical and financial. If you expected to get your fix of TBS or ESPN free OTA, then you are just ignorant. 
• Growing market and market roll out is two entirely different things, ignorance again. A growing market means that there are increasing number of viewers in this case. Market roll out is that you expand the service to cover more viewers, regardless if they use the service or not.

So again, you really should use google, you have no relevant knowledge about any topic I've ever seen you post about.

@fredrik222 In your quest to try to put me down, you take everything exactingly literally when I’m speaking in a general, conversational manner, like one does on a forum. It’s the only way you can retort. Like I said before, "you hunt and peck".

You’re incredibly obsessed with me to the point of lacking situational awareness.

Having options to cable entails the programming they have to offer and not just the mechanism used. HD OTA doesn’t begin to compete with cable in that regard and that was the point I made, which you very well know. That you sidestep that entirely says all one needs to know.

As for this:
I said nothing about the market growing, I said ATSC3.0 is rolling out to 50 new smaller markets this year.

Isn’t that what’s known as a distinction without a difference? Or maybe, you contradicting yourself in one, short sentence? Don’t make me slip the nurse a twenty to put a sedative in your jello.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise look at that, you do know how to use google. Now try it before EVERY post. 

Again, markets like LA, have had HD OTA for over 20 years, and has had 4k for at least three years. Again, google is your friend. 

I said nothing about the market growing, I said ATSC3.0 is rolling out to 50 new smaller markets this year. 

@fredrik222 What good are markets when the options to watch are as sparse as your imagination?  All anyone needs to do is go to antennaweb.org, type in their zip code, and see where their available stations are located, how to position your antenna, and view the listings. For HD-Nextgen, click on it to narrow down the field.

I've been doing it for years, waiting for the day when I could cut the cord and get comparable programming in HD-Nextgen and in a big city like LA, all I have are 6 local stations and a jewelry channel to watch in HD. Wow! Now that's progress.

You're saying the market is growing is like saying all empty office buildings going to waste are a sign of business booming just by counting the buildings. 

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise you are correct, I had to look up how many new markets being added so I actually knew what I was talking about. You should try it sometime.

@jji666 like stated numerous @nonoise posts things he has no knowledge about at all, and then starts misleading others. In every single post. Like I posted earlier with a link too, he thought that cable tv quality is bad because “the number of boxes” involved. 
 

what real discussion? The premise was wrong, meaning streaming is not an inherent inferior media, as proven with kaleidascape’s platform. So how do you have a real discussion about a made up thing?

If anyone on either side of this petty insult-fest thinks they are coming out looking better than the other side, think again.  There was a real discussion to be had here, Sidetracked and disrupted by maybe 5th grade level ad hominem attacks? 

Seriously what are each you getting out of this?  I guess it's better than getting in your car and running people down on the street. 

My $.02 is that these uber-expensive digital solutions - whether audio OR video, are a serious overpay because technology is moving so fast.  What is today's powerful PC is tomorrow's doorstop.  That's fine for those well financed enough but I kind of like my $10k purchases to have a good long runway.  

Secondarily, cable box aside, I don't like hardware that is tied to a single software/content source. 

(Finally, on the comment about many people on Audiogon having never spent over $10k on speakers, I have, but that's because it's at least 10 pairs of speakers!  You can do that when you spend a lot of time hunting on the used market...)

@fredrik222 Did you have to go and look that up? I read a similar article just yesterday and this one just now (just to brush up a bit and get a general consensus ).

The most optimistic read is here and it's still not the best of news. They've still got a long ways to go.

Don't they have shuffleboard or corn hole where they keep you?

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise lol, when called out again about your ignorance, you try to cover it up. Your posts are just noise, useless and annoying, ruining the experience. 
Since the launch ATSC3.0 is now available in every major city across the US, including Hawaii, with 50 smaller cities planned for the rest of the year. Considering it requires significant investment from the broadcaster, it is going to take a while to reach smaller markets.

but again, you can’t help but prove your ignorance with every post regardless of topic, and then you jump to personal attack when called out.

@fredrik222 

When I said "became a thing" I meant that to be a nationwide option. I've seen demos of it years ago. "Slowly rolling out" is a great understatement.  Why have you resorted to "hunt and peck" attacks? Slow day at the asylum?

All the best,
Nonoise

I have been binge buying discs that are used on amazon, local shops, etc. for about the same cost as a rental. Then I rip them and watch on my zidoo player which upconverts to dolby vision. Works for me.

Content providers basically care about only one thing - their bottom line and how to increase it. The quality of the video and audio of that content is a distant second, or maybe even third. Usually, a disc's maximum retail value is its price when first released, so the providers have no real motivation for supporting the format. The streaming format allows them to charge more for the same content, no matter how old it is. It's a mixed bag on streaming content quality - I watched the excellent Coen brothers movie, The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, on Netflix and was generally very satisfied with the audio and video over my mid-level AV system. I scarfed up a few Oppo and Panasonic plasma TVs when each of those brands announced those products would no longer be manufactured, and I'm glad I did. To Nonoise, who is considering the Panasonic 820 player, that is a good choice (I got one when I dipped my toes into the 4k pool), but it made me sad to see the big difference in construction quality compared to the Oppo units.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if OTA 4K broadcasts became a thing?

@nonoise  what would really be nice if you even attempted to google a topic you have an opinion about. You again fill this forum with just pure noise. 4K OTA broadcast are a thing already, has been for years and is slowly rolling out across the country. To me it is astounding how little you know about what you post.

https://www.watchnextgentv.com

@nonoise

You hit the nail on the head. Cable Internet infrastructure is the main problem in the United States. Most cable companies operate on physical cables that are 40+ years old and just cannot deliver higher speed Internet.

It should have been upgraded to fiber optic cable years ago, but it means a costly investment for them. When they advertise "fiber optic cable," it might mean they have it at some point in the line to your house, but not all the way. So basically it’s like taking a bullet train to the middle of Los Angeles, then being stuck in traffic for 2 hours for the last 10 miles to your house...

Kaleidoscope is awfully appealing, but, most of the stuff I wanna watch is coming from non-kaleidoscope sources. And the fees for kaleidoscope movies are really annoying. I question the feasibility of this company staying in business.

Netflix premium can be very nice if the offerings are all recorded at this higher premium level, but many don’t do a very good job.

HBO is horrifying, Amazon movies can be good, peacock is horrifying and is bottom of the pack.

I run everything through an Apple TV and I’m not sure how much better one can do after you install a quality HDMI, Ethernet and power cord. As well as having a very nice processor, and tube amplifier and preamp, which is an absolute must. Video quality is not the challenge, it’s the audio.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if OTA 4K broadcasts became a thing? I seem to remember one company who was doing 1080i or p cable broadcasts OTA until they got a court order to stop. The people in the community loved it. They said they'll be back but that was some 2-3 years ago.

Another valid reason to breaking up monopolies.

All the best,
Nonoise

We are all going to become Blu-Ray/DVD hoarders the same way we are hoarding records, LOL.  

I recently had a few people over to watch a movie on my OPPO-205 to which I’ve added a linear power supply and improved IEC.  We then went through my library of movies on Blu-ray and even plain old DVD and compared portions of them to their streaming equivalent on my Apple TV and Xbox Series X via my gigabit internet, courtesy of Ting.  The video and sound goes through an Anthem 70, feeding a 77 inch Sony 4K OLED and a 9.2.6 system.  My living room has very slowly become quite the man-cave….  

We all agreed that with my setup, at least, the physical media looked, and especially, sounded noticeably better.  Even older movies that weren’t at 4K originally had deeper colors with better contrast, and the sound coming out of the OPPO was less compressed, especially in the upper registers.  The opening sequence of Maverick, for example, was so much more visceral coming out of the OPPO than when streamed via the Apple or Xbox.

Maybe this is due to compression employed by the streaming services?  Maybe my streaming devices just can’t match the hardware of the OPPO?  All I know is that I’m going to miss both the quality and the depth of selection that the Netflix DVD service provided.  Sure I can still buy some physical media, but being able to have a high quality borrowing library was great all these years.   

Nope. Never did. Your statements are just proof of your psychosis. Soon, little man, you'll be getting a time out from Admin.

All the best,
Nonoise

I’m guess this might be a market for Kaleidoscope or similar competitors. You can download an uncompressed digital copy to a local hard drive.

https://www.kaleidescape.com

@thyname one actually makes a huge difference, the others doesn’t, yet people tell newbies they absolutely must spend thousands of dollars on things that cannot work. It is not a few hundred dollars.

@kota1 

You're insane, you know that, right? You're not the authority you present yourself to be and look all the more foolish the more you spout off. Do you get hit a lot for talking the way you do?

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise 

My OPPO BDP-103 is old

This is a waste of space, trash it, sell it, get rid of it. What about your amp, is it decent? What about your speakers? Are they old too? If I were you I would put it all on ebay and start fresh. First, make sure your network is noise free as possible. Next, find a streamer you like. If you want media its on sale everywhere. I don't think they will run out in the next 50 years or so. As for what BR player to buy it depends on your budget and what you will use it for. The limitation of the Panny is no SACD. The Sony Signature models are amazing and will play everything but you need to buy them used. If you are handy with ripping get a Zidoo player.

As for Disney LOL, that company is a dumpster fire.

 Nice to know alternative choices exist but 7k+++in Hardware plus $20 per video to rent. Ouuch!  Not worth it for me…will be interesting to see how the HT streaming media quality evolves.  I will miss my $20  a month netflix unlimited Blu-Ray’s.

@fredrik222 :

Kaleidascape is a streaming service, and it starts at 7k, which is the one I have, and it has superior quality to Bluray. 

So you bitch and moan about people paying a few hundred bucks for cables or Ethernet filters and tweaks, but you pay $35,000+ for video (including storage and extras)? What the irony. And people are not allowed to discuss prices in your Uber expensive video stuff, but they should throw a tantrum if one spends 1/10th of that in audio? Ridiculous 

Who streams  5.1 audio?

And that folks, is what's know as saving face masked in a parting shot while whistling past the graveyard.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise  It wasn't an apology, no idea how you thought that. 

But consider yourself educated, again, about the best video platform out there. Not that it will matter in the future, see previous point about your willingness to learn.

@fredrik222 That was the lamest of apologies ever (lies, slander and spin) but it'll do. Coming from you, that's the best anyone could hope for. 

All the best,
Nonoise