Are all Audiophiles masocists?

Its not masochistic to want to go faster. To want to do it in a Corvette, well then maybe you have a point.

I do like it a bit rough

LOL.  I also wanted to mention we have a C7 Z06 Corvette. It isn't fast enough either. Wondering when the C8 Z06 is going to happen.

@cd318....Oh, my....I hadn't heard about D. Rigg....😢😘
My first exposure to her was The Avengers series; after the 'effect' of her 'fighting togs' wore down, her talent as an actress became apparent and amplified with later roles...

(In an interview, she initially didn't understand the fan letters received that *mmm* refered mostly to the leathers....Confusion gave way to 'oh, give it a break..." *L*)

Rest in Peace, Ms. D...
Her Lotus Elan sparked a lifelong respect for that marque...*s*

I can relate to the 'lil glitches' that mar ones' system and ones' mind....
'Crackely switches', 'scratchy pots', 'cable conundrums'....
The minor ones' beget 'bug hunts' that engender desire for a simple 'boom box' that, failing, gets recycled without regret.
If something more major goes *foom*, at least one can shrug, get it fixed or get on with something Better...

'Hobby' budget of late is somewhat restricted, but I consider it a challenge to amass the means to scratch the Itch.  What it looks like a first glance is a bit of an polyglot.  But it sounds better than it appears and allows me to pursue my DIY penchant.

Ultimately, it makes me smile....which, imh(if odd)o....is my perception of the point.

I Do get: "You have a really odd sense of humour, Jer...."

Well....it seems better to laugh at the mess we're all in than to sink into hysterical screaming punctuated by near-catatonic silence.
It's infinitely more acceptable, and They don't come and take you away....*ha ha*...;)

Socially somewhat acceptably yours,

J...oh, and have a good weekend! 🤪

@asvjerry,

One of the worst things that can happen to an audiophile is some form of component failure.

Anything from a blown tweeter/driver to a recklessly damaged stylus can have an unusually proportional effect upon your mood.

I think I must have become complacent until a few weeks ago when my system began to lose signal in the left channel.

I tried various stuff, a different channel on the amp, checking the interconnects (horrible thick and ridiculously tight) and reversing and tightening the speaker cables etc. All would work for a while but the next time, same problem of a silent left speaker.

In the end I discovered that the volume dial on the amp was getting a little flaky. It might need cleaning or replacing soon but anyway it reminded me just how easy it is to lose your peace of mind when it comes to audio.

I used to pity my friends and family who’d get distraught when their car got the mildest of scratches, but now I can’t the volume dial out of my mind.

Is it serious, is affecting the sound, is it a sealed unit, can it be cleaned? Etc

Anyway, I can laugh about a little now, but a few years ago it would have been a real downer for me.

No, you’ve got to be good to yourself (don’t watch the news, it’s always bad eg Diana Rigg) and somehow try to address the stuff you might worry about.

Can’t wait around for someone else to do it.

More like perfectionists. Never totally satisfied, but it's great to feel the rush when you know that some change you made improved the sound. Sometimes people use crazy words to describe the sound (tubey, humid?) I just say it sounds better.

Get a proper tube amp, a non-oversampling DAC and enjoy the music and stop chasing new gear.

We seem to be a bit condescending too. LOL

In fact several ingrained character traits have emerged to be prevalent in this post. I guess that means we're all just... Human.

cd318....*S* And also, quite true.  We do wake hopeful....have to.

We do have enough days that ones' feet can't hit the floor fast enough.

There's also the *meh* days:
-Start good, go south in varied ways 'n means
-The inverse of that, begin not so but make up for it overall.

It's Those Days....when one would rather pull the covers up and cocoon oneself and wait for the next and preferable one....

...where exiting becomes more an act of faith, bravery, sheer determination, or utter abandon or surrender.

Those Days suck.

The only way they get worse is a firing squad waiting for you.

Those Really Suck.

Mho...the last 2 delve into the Masocist Zone.

Audioholics skirt the upper edge of the MZ, like surfers on storm surf....

"OMG, I've (fallen out of love/begun to detest/made an enormous error/(fill in blank) with the/this (fill in subject equipment).

Now, I'm faced with (replacing X) and (convincing self)(convincing spouse)(rationalizing this)(selling/trading/burying X in closet/backyard/trash fire) and determining what would make the remainder return to desired satisfactory status..."

Doing this occasionally.....fine.
Doing this yearly....mmmOK.
Doing this a lot?

You enjoy it.
Leather, whips, and 'restraints' would be cheaper in the long run, butt...

As long as you 'do' this in our company (obviously, the audio, please), we understand....

*poor devil...tsk*

...feel free to PM us the vids of the latter, though...;)

Salaciously yours, J

(FGS, I am kidding...I don't want the latter...the evening news is torture enough....)

mijostyn, Get the book, or read online ...  The RULES - Velominati. if you are not already familiar with it. 

Mitch, We live in New Hampshire. We have cycled in Italy twice. Once in the Dolomite's and once through Tuscany. Going down is a thrill bordering on scary. God bless disc brakes. I hit 55 mph on one straight. The Stelvio has 48 switch backs and each one is numbered. The Mortirolo is an entirely different experience-struggle. The Stelvio you are in a wide open valley with breath taking landscape. The Mortirolo except for a few views is closed in, wooded. 10% average grade. About 1/2 way up is the monument to Marco Pantani. This was his stage. 
We have some great rides in New Hampshire. Tripoli Road from Woodstock to Waterville Valley is a good one. If you really want to bust your chops there is the 6 peak ride in Vermont. Better start real early 5 AM!. This ride is certainly for masochists. But then if there was no challenge would it be worth it? Somehow the view is sharper and the colors brighter when your heart rate hits 160. 

@asvjerry,
Are we masocists? *L* Yup. We keep getting up in the morning.... ;)"


Every moment of existence is priceless.
Every single one.

No matter how bad things get, there is always something to look forward to.

There has to be.

Hope is truly the most wonderful thing.
I don’t see how else we’ve made it all these millions of years.

We might all be partial masochists but we’re also life’s greatest optimists. Probably even too much much for our own good.

Somehow we never seem to get tired of wishing and searching.

@douglas_schroeder

I get bored without progress, and I love the challenge of advancing a rig continuously. I also thrill to hear a performance become more engrossing, emotionally fulfilling, over the years. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that - as long as there is integrity in my relationship with my wife, maintaining my charitable giving, and I’m not blowing the rest of the budget.

Especially well said.
Guttenberg deals with the upgrade question by having listeners consider that maybe they want *difference* in their rig, and not just better. They want to turn the jewel over, get another view, expand laterally and not just "forward" or "better." I kind of took that from your comment, Doug.

Also -- your point about relationships, charitable giving are huge, to me. You’re looking at audio in the context of a healthy overall approach to life. That’s bound to mean that when you listen to music, you’re more fully open the to joy and meaning potentially found there. Admirable.

@cd318....
"Now if only you were aware of all that before you began...would you still do it?"

*L* Since none of us gets the opportunity to live life backwards, that falls into the 'Monday morning quarterback syndrome'..mho...

If one did have the chance to 'play it again, Sam' the outcome would certainly be different....good, bad, indifferent, or even to a sudden unforseen Stop @ That Curb *screech*Smack*lights out*

Where you are is where you Is.

Are we masocists? *L* Yup.  We keep getting up in the morning.... ;)

I do like it a bit rough

For the first part of your post i will say that the price to pay to be free, really free, is consciousness of our own slavery, to begin with ourself and at the end to end with ourself....But in between we are suspended between polarities, and extremes.....

For the last question part, yes, i will do the same thing in my audio journey, and being without money has been for me a great luck because i has been push to be creative, then my audio wishes are realized by my own hands ....

Obsession is a problem only if we cannot satisfy it and control it by ourself, his name is creativity when it is the case, otherwise it is a bottomless pit...

:)

I apologize to give an asnwer to questions that were only rhetorical and for which you did not wait for an answer...

My best to you....

« All fundamentals are polarities» Goethe, Coleridge, Faraday, and Groucho Marx

Experience vs analysis, love and hate, pleasure and pain.

Why is human experience always linked and limited in such opposing ways?

Why can't we simply enjoy books and films in a purely visceral way without worrying too much about plot, direction or themes?

Why can't we have drugs that give nothing but untrammelled pleasure without any fallout?

Or sufficient amounts of alcohol without a hangover?

Or unlimited fast food without weight gain or sugar issues?

Did God make a mistake or is evolution only a work in progress?

The only two great pleasures in life that we can luxuriate in that don't have unfortunate side effects seem to be sex and music, as long as we take a bit of care with cueing up.

Perhaps there's some common link between these two great passions.

I bet Freud would say that audiophilia is a mere fetish. What might he say about tonearms I don't want to know...or the audiophile games people play. Or maybe we should ask Eric Berne, or even Joe South?

Or perhaps, just maybe, as long we can concentrate mainly on the music and not the means, ultimately the love of music is the greatest, most universal, least harmful pleasure of them all?

Something worth getting just a little obsessed about. So I don't think we're necessarily masochists as we know what we want but we do seem to have a lot stacked against don't we? 

Unfortunately that only becomes apparent at a later date as you eventually realise the record companies are not on your side, nor are most reviewers, and that the perfect playback you were looking for is not even a remote option, at any price.

Now if only you were aware of all that before you began...would you still do it?

Isn't that part of the definition of hobby?

^^^^ That

An ex-gf’s sister reminds me of what I imagine some audiophiles might be like.  Whatever she does/experiences, she analyses.  If she joined us for supper, she would be looking about and wondering out loud why things were in the places they were, why wait staff made the passes they did, why other diners looked or behaved as they did.  When the meals arrived, she would tentatively taste and say, “Hmm, I’m trying to determine . . is that cinnamon? . . . or maybe ginger?!”  She compares the food to multiple other versions she recalls from other restaurants and wonders why she isn’t enjoying this food as much as some others.  She must ponder the differences.  

After a bit, I am thinking, “I don’t care what’s in it, I’m not going to make it, I just want to enjoy it!  If she doesn’t like it, she should return it and get something else instead of trying to reverse engineer the recipe to figure out what the components are.  Can’t we just enjoy the food and talk of something pleasant?”

When it comes to music, I expect reviewers to discuss what equipment or recordings sound like and speculate why.  That is what they do.  But if I was just kicking back and enjoying music on my system, it would annoy me if someone said, “I have figured out what is not right here.  You need a bass trap over there, maybe there, some ceiling panels, oh and behind you on that wall.  It would improve the sound so much!” Great, now they have me considering the various deficiencies of my room (or equipment), and now I’m not enjoying it so much.   

Can you imagine having sex like that?  What a waste!  Lol

Redwoodaudio,
"Music is about pleasure, not pain"

Well stated, but what if you listen to Yoko Ono? 

Only you dude!!

And some people identify as chimeras what they dont know about....


« If we live inside it, there is only one side, but if we look at it externally there is 2 sides, what is that? »-Groucho Marx

« It is only you Groucho....»- Harpo Marx

Some people chase chimeras.

Maybe, just maybe, the term you were looking for is ouroboros or uroboros. It's an ancient symbol of a snake chasing its own tail. In a way it depicts the upgrade quest.

mijostyn...Who was the "who cares" directed to?

Yes

@andrewkelly -

Wait..... what?

Anything under 10's is quick, under 9 and mid 8 is astonishingly so.
I was playing, I would be very surprised if the modifications on a mid 8 second car would keep it road registered.

@bullitt5094 - I used to go the dragway, I have a reasonable idea of what you're car did, and seeing as you're an audiophile, I sure hope you had lots of hearing protection?? No doubt you did.

The top fuelers, now that was an almost out of body experience, nothing prepared me for that first warm up and pass - wow!

@mijostyn

I think just like vanity your competitive instinct gets whittled way until you lose it completely, just an effect of aging. I cycle with my wife and we do some very challenging rides like the Mortirolo and Stelvio passes.

Not aware of where you live but those are beautiful rides so you are fortunate to be able to enjoy them both geographically and physically, and particularly to share the joy with your wife. My typical rides are relatively flat (although not as flat as Florida!) but last week I had the pleasure of visiting Glacier National Park in MT (USA) and riding both sides of the GTTSR, which is always a breathtaking event - both visually and literally - and just a small taste of the rides you mentioned. BTW, whatever your age, going down those climbs should rekindle your competitive instincts! 🚴🏻‍♂️
@bullitt5094 - Your wife should consider herself lucky to be with somebody who is passionate about life......the opposite would suck!

The term "chase the dragon" is from the drug culture.  Smoking heroin.

Putting a line on a piece of foil while someone holds a lighter underneath and the smoker chases the smoke across the foil with a straw.

From Steely Dan, "Time Out of Mind"

Tonight when I chase the dragon
The water may change to cherry wine
And the silver will turn to gold
Time out of mind

Who cares. Right now we are on the Port de Bales, Adam Yates still in yellow.

millercarbon...This is not an attack. I don't understand how a rider with a slower average speed than another rider, unless the slower rider travels a shorter distance, can win the race. It seems to me, that while it is unlikely that the racers would travel the exact same distance because of the path each takes; passing other riders, position in curves and the like, if it did happen that they traveled the exact same distance the rider with the greater average speed would win the race. I admit that I am not an expert in physics, so I may very well be wrong. I am interested in your response.

It appears you're an active, busy guy.  Your wife should look at the bright side.  If you laid around on the couch all day drinking beer she'd say "you need to get a hobby!"

Does doing what you enjoy immensely often make you a masochist? Depends, I suspect. 

Obsessing about, changing systems is no more a "problem" in audiophilia than someone obsessing about collecting media. Mediaphilia, imo, can be as aberrant as obsession over the gear. I am certainly not weird, but Mediaphiles can be weird!  ;) 

I used to flip gear in search of the One, the perfect speaker/system. The masochistic aspect of it was self-imposed budget constraints, attempting to reach SOTA with a very modest budget cap. What's the definition of Insanity? (Please, I know the phrase; it's not necessary to respond to this rhetorical question.) 

I finally woke up and realized that I never would be happy that way. I began to cultivate a collection of equipment to allow for variety of experiences. It has been a near perfect solution to RES, or Restless Ear Syndrome (my phrase to describe the condition of upgraditis), which can be carried out at the same cost as plowing money into an ultimately unsatisfying search for the One.  

I get bored without progress, and I love the challenge of advancing a rig continuously. I also thrill to hear a performance become more engrossing, emotionally fulfilling, over the years. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that - as long as there is integrity in my relationship with my wife, maintaining my charitable giving, and I'm not blowing the rest of the budget.  YMMV  

you poor .......

She's beautiful, right!

curious, what do/did you do for a living?

I think we all do this with other parts of our lives: we have a good job, we think of better jobs. We have a nice car, we think of getting a better car. We have a nice house, we want a bigger house, and so on. I'm perfectly happy with my little system but I like to experiment and try different things with it. It's a hobby. I also dabble with model trains and I'm always adding things, running new locos, new scenery. It's fun but I don't look at it as 'never being happy.' To me, it's just part of the hobby itself. As long as I'm having fun, its all good.

After years of just work and family, I’m glad to have a hobby again.
The obsession factor helped pull me in and forced me to learn.
Now that my system is assembled, I’m turning toward expanding my listening.
Obsessing about hearing more and different music will, I hope, take the place of the "dragon chase" for better sound.

Because at this point, the sound is so good that I really don’t have a good reason to spend time the rig rather than the music.

When I start posting about problems with my rig, I'm sure to be called a hypocrite! I'll just quote Whitman at that point: "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself (I am large, I contain multitudes)."

To answer the question it's almost certainly more pain than pleasure for me!

A jump has us thrilled. 

But how soon before the system is driving us nuts and we are only living for the next upgrade or tweak that will remove those little niggling things (that we weren't even aware of before the last upgrade) which are driving us crazy.  

Every true Audiophile I know is almost certainly certifiable.  😇😇😎

Net/net It's a toss up between OCD  and masochism. 

"See you watching me like a hawk
I don't mind the way you talk
But if you touch me somethin's got to give
I live the life I love and I love the life I live

So if you see me and think I'm wrong
Don't worry 'bout me just let me go
My sweet life ain't nothing but a thrill
I live the life I love and I love the life I live

My diamond ring and my money, too
Tomorrow night these may belong to you
These girls move me at their will
I live the life I love and I love the life I live

I may bet a thousand on a bet this time
One minute later I can't cover your dime
Tomorrow night I might be over the hill
I just want you to know, baby, the way I feel

Oh, I'm rockin' when you pass me by
Don't talk about me because I could be high
Please forgive me if you will
I live the life I love and I love the life I live."

I love the life I live by Willie Dixon 

Mahgister...*L*  Thanks for the confidence there....but, after 40+ yrs., one develops certain 'auto-self preservation routines', at least in regard to sudden chills of atmosphere and dark silence....

Likened to the hint of ozone before lightning strikes way too close...even if it misses, one looks for burnt extremities....

Mental nimbleness may help....but some quickness may just sink one into the quicksand sandtrap, where one's head becomes the ball on the tee.

(....and she doesn't read any of this....to my knowledge....;)...)

Wait..... what?

Sorry I got to mid 8's in the 1/4 mile and thought......
That's one heck of a shopping car! 

A quick trip to pick up something in that would be rather rapid!

 The difference between adding and moving absorbers and diffusers around provides a HUGE change in sound that no equipment change can duplicate once you get to a certain level of audio equipment ($30 K in my case). Trying to achieve that much change in quality of sound with the incredibly small equipment improvements tauted by many here is simply too overwhelming for my sanity.

You are perfectly right...

Audiophile experience is more dependent on acoustics than on electronics circuits...



«The Greek theater acoustic is way more older than the Edison trumpet» -Groucho Marx 

I own and play several trumpets. I own and listen to several systems. Listening is the key to life. Listen, understand and learn...

Having only recently entered the gon, I can already tell that it comes at a high risk. On one hand, you can find good basic sound advice, on the other hand, you can find yourself submerged in an unending search for sound nirvana through endless means, like audiophile fuses and suspended cables. No matter what, sound nirvana is impossible to find through other's opinions, since your own equipment, layout and ears, are different from anyone else. Long story short, at this point, going at improving my system in my own environment for my own ears is better served by doing it with my own tries and errors working with simpler things like working with the room acoustics. The difference between adding and moving absorbers and diffusers around provides a HUGE change in sound that no equipment change can duplicate once you get to a certain level of audio equipment ($30 K in my case). Trying to achieve that much change in quality of sound with the incredibly small equipment improvements tauted by many here is simply too overwhelming for my sanity. Fishing lines, rubber bands? To each his own but to me music is simpler than that, hence its beauty. Just my two cents. 

The only true masochists in audio are those who try to get into selling speakers commercially.

The rest of them are just shoppers.

Here,
all of us upgrade each others because we are all rightfully embed already....
:)

If i judge by your posts asvjerry ,you are rightfully embedded because all your posts upgrade my spirit....

Masochism is about pain as pleasure.  Music is about pleasure, not pain.  If you’re suffering for your hobby, that’s different.  If you can’t enjoy the music, that’s probably more on the obsessive compulsive spectrum.  I do think that OCD perfectionism is endemic in this hobby, myself included.

@isochronism .....

"...  the only thing good enough that I can't upgrade is you."

Not knowing the spouse receiving that....could be hazardous to one's health in ways unknown to us...🤔

I stay far far away of any 'Dear Abby' martial commentary....if, at all:

"Sweetheart, I can't upgrade the Perfection you already Are."

If lucky, she'll buy it....or know that you're totally BSing her, and kill you Verrrry Slowwly....;)

& years ago i was feeling the urge to upgrade and after the impossibility to upgrade anymore, because of the lack of money to do it; i turn myself in uncontrolable race to improve my audio system by myself...

With great success, it takes me 2 years of listenings experiments...

But now the sound is less an obsession than the music itself for the first time this month...The reason is simple when you are near the high-end audio experience, you feel ectasy in any files or cd....It is impossible like before to be annoyed by any music .... Good one for sure....Then you listen one cd by each hour without any desire to change something or the cd itself....

Music begins only when the sound problem is no more there....Before that many music i liked where not listenable on my system, now they are all beautiful.... And before i was not even able to hears all the details or even the instruments or delicate sounds...

Audio is not important, but only  when you have it right.... :)

Age is the great equalizer. If you live long enough, and I sincerely hope you do, these things will all take care of themselves.