Am I broken? Am I stuck? Do I have to return my audiophile card now?

@steakster The Wilson are more Dynamic and imaging is more 3-D  (holigraphic) while the Magico has a smoother overall presentation with a more even tonal quality if that makes sense. Very sweet highs and mids.

@bigfatpaulie 

Congrats…until the next upgrade…

Check in again if you want help with a DAC upgrade

@bigfatpaulie 

Congrats…until the next upgrade…

check in again if you want a DAC upgrade

The other side of this is that I used to want to pursue a better amp/DAC for my Sabrina's but now I don't really.  After having heard the DAW's I know the Sabrina's will never reach that level, regardless of gear.  So spending on a amp/DAC seems silly when, if I am going to spend the money, I know I should just get the DAW's as that will offer a greater improvement.

Yet another audiophile learns that it really is all about the speakers. Always has been, always will be. 😎

You can keep your audiophile card, but you may have to take a different road. You want the dynamics of the bigger speakers. Totally get that. There is more than one path to get there. Subwoofers my friend. Subwoofers!  Cross the mains over so you don't tax the amps and driver the woofers into distortion and let the subs do the rest. Subwoofer companies produce in much higher volume than Wilson with a lot more competition. You can get that low frequency performance and slam of the bigger Wilson, probably better from subs, while making the rest of the bass better from your current Wilsons and giving your amp more room to breath.

Congratulations!

It's always better to scratch that itch especially if you're able to!

They look super cool. And I'm sure they sound just like you imagined they would, if not even better.

Enjoy them.

@steakster +1.......Great story.  I had a similar experience.  Great speakers are great speakers whether you like their particular flavor or not.  I also own the Magico A-5's in a second system.  I love them but clearly they have a different voice. 

@bigfatpaulie congrats on your new speakers! Enjoy!

@ghdprentice preach somewhere else. My comment was not negative.  Your speculaton about my wealth is quite correct.  I make $10 an hour.  

@carlsbad2 

I don’t see your system posted. So where do you come up with this assessment? Have you pursued high end audio for decades? Experience with hundreds of systems? What are the values upon which you base your judgement of Wilson… that you cannot afford them? And therefore they are not worth it? 

@carlsbad2 And I thought this post would be free of Wilson haters and trolls?  My fav from this minority was a comment a hater made about the Chronosonic. XVX's.. The reviewer had said they were one of the five best speakers in the world.  The hater responded in the comment section "I heard them at a show. My ears hurt so bad after listening for 2 minutes I had to leave the room".  When I read that I was on the floor laughing so hard!

You're still spending a sh*tload of money, much of which goes for the name and the reputation rather than the performance.  You actually get an extra star on your audiophile card.

Jerry

Congrats on the new speakers.  You will love them!  I went through a similar ordeal for the last year.  I had the Alexia 1 and thought I needed an upgrade.  I loved the Alexia's but you know how this hobby is.  I auditioned the Alexx V's and still was not 100% convinced.  Pulled the trigger and about a month ago they arrived.  I'm very happy with the purchase but I do shed a tear for the Alexia's every now and again.

Thanks for the update. You have a good wife… I’d hold on to her. You must be quite the waffler. 
 

Congratulations on your purchase. Yeah, that’s why more expensive speakers are more expensive… performance. I’m happy you did it. You will enjoy them more each time you listen to music. 

@bigfatpaulie : a big CONGRATULATIONS to you! Also, thank you very much for coming back and updating this thread.

Hi Everyone!!

Sorry it has been a while - I've had a few big things come up which really slowed things down.  Anyway, I really appreciate all the advice, insight, experience and thoughtful replies so thank you to everything that replied.  

In the end, with much personal hesitation and a lot of encouragement from my wife, I did make the leap.  When I told her I finally bought them her reaction was, "Finally!"

Delivery day was a mixed emotion day for me.  I loved and have spent so much time with SabrinaX, I just wasn't keen to see them go.  It was like saying good bye to an old friend for the last time.  I know that may sound silly to some, but it is how it felt to me.

Getting the Sabrina's meant a lot to me - I had dreamt of owning Wilsons since being a teenager and finally getting my very own pair really meant a good deal to me.  With that said, the pair of Wilsons that I always dreamt of were WATT/Puppies - These were always the end game goal.

They arrived this week.  First, they are HUGE.  My wife's comment when she came home and saw them, on the other hand, was "I thought they would be bigger"  You see what I have to put up with! ;) 

Listening...  Oh boy.  I describe them as heavy artillery.  These are really the big guns.  The Sabrina's are a wonderful speaker.  Fantastic.  But these...  I see it like this; The Sabrina's are top of the line Cessna -  A great versatile plane.  The DAW's are a F-22.  Darryl Wilson described the Sabrina's as "congenial" and they are.  The DAW's, on the other hard, are "demanding".  There is no "background music" with them - the constantly force your attention, even when not playing.

Thank you again, everyone, for your heart felt advice and guidance.  I think I have a lot of very late nights in my future.

Maybe I just happen to be uniquely blessed with my mate, but she’s been good for decades with having an ever-expanding number of systems all over the house, even multiple systems in the same room.  High powered, flea watt, vintage, new, bookshelf, massive floorstander, separate components, receiver…. Adding systems is the perfect strategy to make indecision work FOR you instead of allowing it to create frustration.  We’re at fourteen pairs of speakers in thirteen systems at the moment (one system runs two pairs - JBL Control 30s on front eaves and on back eaves.  Closest neighbor is almost a mile away so we have music in front and back yards.).  There’s still some swapping in and out of various speakers and other components from time to time.  It never loses its appeal.

Hey BFP... you must be in Europe, PSAudio has dealers over there. They are direct marketers here in the states.

So here’s the deal. Tell your dealer you want that home demo. He won’t take your Sabrina’s when he brings your Sasha’s. So, you can opt to keep them if the sound is not what you want... no sweat. ALSO tell your dealer to throw a pair of PS Audio M1200 mono block amps in the trunk. My Wilson guy here was impressed with those amps when installing some new Alex 5s in someone’s home. And he sells D’Ags, Constellation, etc. Actually should be pretty reasonable with his double down deal and you get your amp upgrade at the same time. You can always get your Gryphon’s in the future.

Happy Music... Bob

If you can afford the Sasha ask for home demo. I think you will not be able to return the Sasha.   Thank me later. 

OP - great thread that you have started with lots of opinions.  If you are going to stay active in the hobby, which sounds like you are, go for the upgrade.  Far more likely you’ll regret an opportunity lost than one taken. 
 

If you can turn off the audiophile in you and just freeze time, enjoy your current system, stick with what you have but the fact you are having the existential crisis you are leads me to believe you’ll be thinking about how to tweak, upgrade your system which no matter how hard you try to stave off those thoughts of what if I had also upgraded my speakers, you’ll really regret not seizing the opportunity. The stars have aligned for you, wife approval, dealer willing to bend over backwards.

A lot going for you on this opportunity, you already know you love the brand because of the experience with your existing speakers, you’ve gotten the opportunity to talk with Wilson Royalty and a dealer who is extremely supportive.  You’ve also always longed for the speakers you can upgrade to.  In my book, you have to take the plunge.  Almost no risk, I’m sure the dealer will work with you if you are not happy and if you are going to stay on the crazy roller coaster ride that is this hobby, one upgrade will enable another that will take your system to new heights, even if some of the upgrades aren’t what you hoped for initially.  I doubt this will be the case with this upgrade.

Magic Eight Ball says absolutely, yes, without question seize the day.  If this was a sport, your coach would be telling you, “Don’t over think it, Take The Shot!”

@pmiller115 

Thank you for your follow up comment. 
 

Yes, we are using compromise in the same way. I have found that sideways moves in audio equipment virtually always amounts to compromise; trading one set of strengths and weaknesses for another. I did that a few times in the first few years into high end audio. This is where I came up with my personal rule of thumb, never invest less that 2x in upgrading a component. Typically, unless you like warm sound and you bought a hyper-detailed component (research precludes this) then all aspects of sound quality improve at the new level. Hence, no compromise.

I think a lot of controversy in this pursuit comes from sideways moves. Lots of folks have fairly simple objectives at first… like high levels of detail and slam, for instance. They get a component that accentuates the characteristic they like and it’s a giant killer… the best ever. Then over time the get more experience and become aware of more nuances… then you are in the realm of compromise, unless they are moving up. Really high end stuff is really good at everything in their desired sound type. 

I think my reference to compromise may have been misunderstood. What I meant was not compromise in the quality or cost of the equipment we buy and listen to but rather the compromise I think most of us understand we may be making, for example, when we sacrifice the amount of finite detail our equipment produces to achieve a more melodic and musical presentation of the music we listen to. You strive to achieve what is pleasing and this often means sacrificing one or more qualities in favor of other qualities that more sonically please us.  

@pmiller115

I have seldom ever experienced compromise in the pursuit of the high end in either my home theater or audio systems. There are some rules: always research the heck out of any purchase, and never spend less that twice as much on the next purchase.

I started building my audio system about fifty years ago… I had some mis-steps in the first couple years. But after I got my feet on the ground,,. That was the end of any compromised steps forward. I now own the very best main audio system and headphone system I have heard.
 

We (partner and I) reached a great home theater with flagship Meridian processors and top notch speakers and amplification about 18 years ago and have just been upgrading monitors since (Sony 77” OLED currently). While I am sure there is an opportunity to improve the processor at this point, when I do, it will be to, the forefront, and I doubt there will be any compromise.

Have you spoken with a therapist...might be good to get a firm grasp of this traumatic situation...keep us in the loop

I just went through a similar experience with home theater processors. I bought new and have been using a Lexicon MC-12 for years. I like the processor so much that I even bought a second one. I have tried to keep my system current and most recently I became interested in an Anthem AVM90 processor as a replacement for the MC-12. I pulled the trigger and bought the Anthem and I do like it but I also miss the MC-12. The AVM90 has the capability to play formats that didn't even exist with the MC-12 came out and it is -in part- with that in mind when I bought the AVM90. This hobby has ALWAYS presented one compromise after another and I believe it is the nature of this hobby to do so -  whatever choice you make there is always another step/improvement that will soon come to mind. Go for or stay with the speakers that - in the long run- will provide the most satisfaction. You have already said one speaker will never be as good as the other and that is something that is likely to keep coming to mind in the future.

Carpe Diem - If there is a deal there that allows you to do the move I would take it. Those opportunities don’t come up often.

Yes there is the "rare opportunity" thing, if that's the case.

I'm sure I'm not alone in still occasionally kicking myself in missing certain rare opportunities that are unlikely to come again.

And I've been extremely happy in TAKING rare opportunities that wouldn't come again.   For instance, I was always a fan of MBL omnis, which were way too expensive.  But I saw an add for a "rare opportunity to own MBL" in which an MBL speaker had been cosmetically damaged in shipping to a customer, and so it was being sold at less than 1/5 the price!  Even though I didn't have much money at the time, I stretched to grab those and was very glad I did.  I got to live with MBLs for a good 10 years!

Likewise, in years before a deal had fell through for a pair of Thiel 2.7 speakers in ebony.  I lusted after those things, loving the Thiel sound (I had big 3.7s I needed to replace) and LOVING the rare ebony finish that would match my decor.  I kicked myself for not getting those when they sold.   Thiel 2.7s were rare enough, but in ebony...super rare.  So when another pair finally came up years later I grabbed them.  So glad I did because they were everything I hoped, and just the right finish. And I've never seen them for sale since.

Then there are missed opportunities.  For instance I was gagga over some Waveform Mach Solo speakers that I once reviewed.  One of the best speakers I've heard in my home, in a gorgeous finish, but I let them go.  I thought about those speakers for years, and kept my eye on the used market.  But that model had been manufactured just when Waveform was going under, so they were essentially never on the used market.  About 17 years later a pair popped up for sale!  It was the last one Waveform ever built AND it was custom modded with better drivers by the manufacturer (was his own pair).  AND it was within driving distance local pick up.  AND it was at an INSANELY low price!   All perfect, right?  Except this occurred when I had a rare extended time out of work.  I just wasn't confident about spending any money at that moment, even though some work would eventually come.  So...I watched as they were eventually sold.  And...of course....work came not long after!    Still kicking myself....

Hi bigfatpaulie...you ask a fine question, thanks.

I choose not to view other responses to provide my gut feeling as a seasoned music lover and not a gear person.  It appears your Sabrina's are working really well in your room, which is vital to great sound.  I'd upgrade the gear, knowing you can always make a speaker move in the future and maybe, by that time, yet another speaker may be your preference.  Onwards and upwords!  

More Peace, Pin      (bold print for old eyes)

Carpe Diem - If there is a deal there that allows you to do the move I would take it. Those opportunities don’t come up often. I would make the leap personally. I have had a few life events that caused me to be in a hole but I’ve still gotten a new DSP last week because it is more than twice the fidelity of the one I’m using and being part of the early adopter program is exciting to me. They are asking for input and feedback which is fun. It’s an experience I wouldn’t have if I waited. Let us know what you decide! 
 

- Steve

So, here’s the deal ... you need to determine the point of diminishing returns. Are the Sashas THAT MUCH BETTER than the Sabrinas? What’s the percentage of improvement? If it’s a wide margin, then I say to go for it because tomorrow is not guaranteed. OTOH, if the Sashas are only a small improvement, then there may be no logical or practical reason for the trade ... in that case, apply the extra money toward a better amp and/or DAC.

I was seriously considering going from Harbeth 30.2 XD to SabrinaX, but opted for 40.3 XDs last weekend. 

One of the reasons was the likely itch to upgrade from entry level. 

The other was off-axis listening - Harbeth's sound good outside of the sweet-spot and from what I understand, Wilson's not so much.

I still lust after Wilson's though...nice dilemma for you:)

@ozzy 

Unless your dealer is Tyrus

Love it

I own the original Sabrina and love the sound. However, every component upgrade, be it amp, preamp, DAC or cables, brought further improvements to the overall presentation. You can upgrade your DAC and possibly cables to start with. Yes, you won’t reach the levels of Sasha DAW but you have not even pushed the Sabrinas to the limit. 
 

Paul....."But I am happy with the Sabrina's!" Keep them and buy more LPs....simple enough....

If it were me in your situation, I know I wouldn’t be happy if I didn’t buy the Daw’s. Especially if it’s a great deal. I would also be looking into room treatment to get the most of them

Love the Sashas.  Not so taken with the Sabrinas.  

@bigfatpaulie we have the same speakers. I also have the RME ADI-2 BE Pro. I did a blind test w my daughter and wife with the Weiss 501 DAC. They could easily point out the Weiss every time. It's on-sale used on tmraudio for 6kish. I can't imagine your dealer would let you have the Sasha for that same amount w the X as trade-in.

As a dealer of high ticket items once stated: “it’s only money.  You’ll make more.”

There’s a line from the show “Mad Men” — What’s happiness?  It’s that moment before you want more happiness.

A man’s got to know his limitations.

@bigfatpaulie 

The stars are aligned, I'd say for for it - make a check by your bucket list.  Seems no downside plus significant upside.  Worse case you can always go back to the Sabrinas, nothing is in stone.

@bigfatpaulie 

Throwing more money at a DAC or power cables/audio cables...?   Not what I'd suggest.  But, hey, we all have our opinions.

I fell in love with the sound of Devore O/96 speakers and was offered an in-home audition.  I abstained.  On major reason was that I may well have loved the sound of those in my room.  But in a way I didn't want that experience because I also knew they would be a harder fit aesthetically and ergonomically in my room, given it shares duty with home theater.  (Wide speakers like the Devores could encroach on my projection screen space behind my speakers).  So a bit of "better not go there."

Another area I have restrained myself is upgrading my home theater.  I've had a 4K capable projector for years, yet still haven't upgraded my source to 4K!  And I'm a home theater nut!   Unfortunately my system is complex enough that it would take upgrading all my video cables, and re-running new cabling through floors etc.  Now, if I were in Home Theater Upgrade mode that's something I probably would have done long ago.  But it's expensive and a hassle, and between the home theater and my music system, the money kept going to my music system.  I could always fall back on "the image I have is so bloody fantastic as it is, do I REALLY need to change it now?"

Now, since I've finally spent myself out on the music system, my HT is my next upgrade, when money permits.

Maybe your just Broke, not Broken...😁

@bigfatpaulie Big Fat Paul: I read your long entertaining post. Thank you for coming back here. For the life of me however, I didn’t understand whether you decided to do it or not.

Granted, swapping speakers is the toughest decision one had to do in this hobby. Not just about figuring out what speakers to get, but also logistically. Especially big floor standing speakers. But it looks like your awesome dealer is doing this very easy for you. So what do you have to lose? How much (extra) money are we talking about here?

Huge differences compared to when you first posted here a short one year ago! https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/speaker-recommendation-help-please

Well you can look at the picture of the Ferrari on you wall or you can buy one (assuming you can afford it).  No mystery to me what I'd do.  I've upgraded, downgraded and moved sideways (both directions) in my long audio journey.  Its what we do.  I've always found a speaker upgrade will typically be the biggest bang for your buck.  Seems like you already know that too.  Just go for it (its what we do) 🙃.

Okay, round 2.  I replied but Audiogon had a pop up - something about a wanting my phone number or whatever - and it ate my last reply.  Sick programming.  Anyway...

First, thank you to everyone who took the time to reply and provide input.  I really appreciate it!!  Thank you.  I want to go though the main points brought up as they are really good.

Second, I want to talk about the suggestion of an in-home demo.  My dealer actually suggested this right away and offered it at no cost (I mentioned they are awesome, right?).  I passed because, well, frankly, I know it's a lot of work for them and I'm not sure it would give me any new information.  When I auditioned the Sasha's I did so in the same room that I auditioned my Sabrina's.  The Sasha's were positioned in the same place relative the walls, each other and me as they would be in my home.  Yes, their room sounds different than mine, but I have a good enough of a baseline to contrast having heard the Sabrina's in both rooms. 

Another comment was about size and the Sasha's being possibly too big.  I'm not really worried about this for a few reasons.  First, I know a few other people who have Alexia's in rooms smaller than mine and they sound great.  Second, my wife doesn't think they are too big.  And, I mean, isn't that the ultimate test?!  If your wife doesn't think the speakers are too big for the family room, they simply aren't too big right?!  HAHA!  :)

Third: DAC's.  I hear ya, I really do.  A while back I mentioned getting a better DAC to try and increase the performance of my Sabrina's to my dealer.  Before I could finish the sentence he was loading a PS Audio DSD Mk2 in my trunk for me to try.   I should point out my dealer rocks.  For me, the DAC was better but the difference was honestly pretty subtle, especially given it is thousands and thousands of dollars more.  I'm certain the PS Audio is a great DAC, but to my ears, it didn't offer the incremental increase in MY system that $7-$8k more would need to make for me to justify it.  I also want to talk about a few of the DAC's I've had a home are various times over the years.  I've had an MSB Analog, Bircasti M1, Schiit Yggy, Lampizator Lvl4, ANK Level 5, Chord DAVE, dCS Debussy and others. DAC's definitely make a difference but, to me, in MY experience the hierarchy of what has an impact goes something like this:

Room Placement
Speakers
Room Treatment
Amp
Pre-Amp
DAC
Speaker Cables
Streamer
Power Cables
Digital Cables

Now, this is MY experience.  YMMV.  And I know, you are 100% smarter than me, know more and my opinion is dumb and the most important thing is actually something different, etc, etc, etc.  That's okay, we can have different opinions and don't have to hate each other because of it.  I'll respect your view, so please extend the same courtesy.  The above is just based on my own personal, limited experience. 

So, to me, speakers make a much more significant impact to the sound than a DAC, and in this case the delta between the Sasha's and Sabrina's is smaller than the spend I would need to improve DAC's by a significant margin.  Basically, bang for my buck, right now, the Sasha's are the ticket.  

I also want to cement this idea by saying again when I auditioned the Sasha's I intentionally asked for a relatively modest amp/source.  The Hegel H120 is a great integrated but I'm willing to bet the DAC is at best as good as mine and the amp is inferior to the Luxman.  Basically, my kit behind the Sabrina's is better at home but the Sasha's were still by far and wide the better performer.  Even with a better DAC the Sabrina's will not reach the Sasha's performance. 

So why am I hesitating?  

Someone very nicely pointed out that my stereo is better than most people's.  I am SUPER fortunate to have it in my life.  It's a great pleasure and I enjoy it every single day.  I am very grateful that I have the Sabrina's in my life.  I have no urge to get better sound because, well, they already sound amazing!

But... There's always a but, right?  

Some people had a poster of a Ferrari on their wall as a kid.  I had a cut out from Stereophile of WATT/Puppies on my wall.  The Sasha's are the modern version, be it the DAW's, V's or whatever future version.  I have always wanted the iconic Wilson speaker.  Yes, it's an emotional decision - And that differs from anything else about this hobby of ours...  How exactly? 

So here is my dilemma, I am happy where I am.  But there is a childhood itch to get the Sasha's.  I could scratch it but does that ever live up the pent up desire?  Is it not better to sometimes hold on to the desire rather than realize the reality of it?

Satiating every want, after all, does not make someone happy.

Has anyone else ever willfully abstained from an upgrade for a similar reason?

Anyway, thank you all again for being my sounding board and listening to me ramble.  I really appreciate it.

(Cautiously copies this post to Notepad before hitting the post button....)

Yoyoyaya (!)...my comparison (did you actually read my post?) simply regards the crafting and parts cost (not counting research...still...) aspect of uber expensive speakers...and your complex  Apple computer isn't relevant because it's made by robots and slaves and arguably not ridiculously overpriced. 

Anyway, I mentioned to him my love for Sasha's and he fired back that the DAW's were going to be soon replaced that my dealer could probably work out a pretty sweet deal on a pair.

Playing the devil's advocate, what if you like the DAW's replacement better than the DAW?  

You don’t have to turn in your audiophile card. In fact, you will be issued an Audiophile Platinum card.

Go for it!

You like the sound of them. You have the space for them. You obviously have the money to get them without having your house go into foreclosure. Mostly, score high on the Wife Acceptance Factor. As a Platinum Audiophile, you will deal with what issues may come ahead.

An Audiophile is Broken or Stuck when their Beer budget can’t keep up with their Champagne taste.

When is your birthday? You sound like a Gemini! Not that that is good or bad just I live with one and know how this goes.

I was in a similar quandary.

I'd gone back and forth between Devore and Joseph Audio speakers, ended up buying original Joseph Perspective speakers when they'd just come out with the new graphene version.  My idea was to eventually send them for the upgrade.

Over the years I had an "Audio fund" account where I'd put little bits of saved money but mostly if I sold any gear the money went in to that account for new gear.

I'd finally used up almost all the funds, and had sold my last bit of gear so...no more fun money to play with.   Then Devore came out with the O/baby and I was also considering grabbing those to have the Devore sound around "at hand."  Or, put the money in to some things I needed to upgrade for my home theater.

So the question was mostly whether to put that last bit of money, and it was still a substantial amount, to upgrading my speakers.    It was so easy to rationalize either way:  "The Perspectives already sound AMAZING.  What do I need the upgrade for?   Just use the money for an actually NEW speaker for the collection like the Devores, or finally friggin' do that HT upgrade you've been needing!"

At the same time I sort of saw the Josephs as my end-game speakers.  They were the most expensive speakers I've owned, and no way I'd be throwing any more money to upgrade to a different speaker.   So I wanted them to be "the best they can be."   I just knew that despite all the rationalization above about "they sound fine!" that...just being audiophile me...I'd continually wonder about how they would sound with the upgrade, so maybe just do that and call it quits.

So I decided to pay for the upgrade.  Result:  yes they sound amazing.   Way better?  Not necessarily, but still...wow.  But it does seem to have eradicated my upgrade itch.  They are as good as they can be, I used the strategy of "throwing money at it until I can't throw any more" so I don't even contemplate money going towards new speakers (or other gear).   I'm set...partially out of necessity.  And in that way it's sort of freeing :-)