A cable too perfect?

zlone

Thank you for the heads up, I'll have to add some Neotech rectangular cable to the collection.

lorde73

Sorry for the delayed post, I've been out of the country for the last month. I have rotated through a bunch of mid-priced cables, but will only talk about what I have now....the rest I gave to audiophile buddies.

I have (and rotate through) these are all factory cables: RAMM Audio Amadeus 5 MkII 13 awg OCC cable with gold plated high copper phosphorous plugs, Zavfino Majestic MkII 12 awg OCC with gold plated plugs, Zavfino Prima MkII 11 awg OCC copper with gold plated plugs, and AntiCables Level 3 8 awg UP-OFC with high copper gold plated plugs.

Additionally I have a huge collection of very high quality Japanese cables for DIY that have to be built (Furutech, Neotech, Oyaide, Acoustic Revive, SAEC, and Acrolink) and Euro RAMM. These will be terminated with Furutech, Oyaide, SonarQuest, Neotech, IeGO, and RAMM plugs.....this will keep me busy for at least a year.

The first power cables I built were: Furutech FP-S-55N 10 awg Nano Au/Ag Alpha OFC with Furutech FI-28 gold plated plugs, and Furutech FP-TCS31 12 awg PC-Triple C with the above Furutech plugs. Both were showing great promise, but not yet broken in; when I disassembled much of my system as I am having a listening room installed in my basement......can't have both at the same time.

I'll be doing more building speaker/interconnect/power cables as the year goes on......and should get around to testing and comparing by August/September??

A general follow up on this topic. I replaced the AZ Absolutes with the Neotech NEMOi-3220 cables that I built. I have had those in the system now for a week or two and find that I prefer them. The sound, while not quite as detailed, is richer and more full bodied. Take note @vthokie83 . 

Not wanting to toss the AZ's to the curb, I replaced my AZ Matrix Reference II's (XLR) between DAC and Pre, with the Absolutes. This yielded a bit more detail, and kept the flavor of the Neotech's at the end of the chain. I will stick with this for now, it seems like a good combination.

And FWIW, I am now running my system unbalanced and the sky has not fallen. Still like XLR better due to their simple locking features. 

@gp4jesus +1 - most interconnect issues can be resolved with simple maintenance, incl. de-ox-ing and cleaning contacts, checking cable wires to contact connections, etc..

+1 for Cardas Clear interconnects. Very balanced and musical cables

Right now I've got the NEI-3001 and NEI 3002, in addition to various RAMM, Furutech, Oyaide, and various other Japanese manufacturers.....

@vthokie83 

What are you currently using for amplifier supply (cable and terminations ) ?

DIY enthusiast here as well ...

@kennyc "I’m still undecided about getting a cable cooker. Many says improvements. Some cook their cables periodically. "

is cable cooking recipe included with those? LOL

Zlone

Please do post your finding once you've got some experience on the Neotech I-3220 sound with the NER connectors. It would be helpful to me as I get further into my builds.

I'm just getting to some of my construction, and I started with speaker and power cables for my DIY projects.....the first speaker cable is showing great promise

Right now I've got the NEI-3001 and NEI 3002, in addition to various RAMM, Furutech, Oyaide, and various other Japanese manufacturers.....I think I went a little manic in my excitement, and went way overboard. I think I bought about 30 bulk cables for speaker, power, and interconnects.

IIRC one member claimed a while back damaging his cables forgetting and leaving them on a cable cooker too long.  I have no clue what's true but worth understanding more in any case.  

I have remained on the fence about buying a cable cooker for over thirty years. I probably should have bought one back then... would have saved me a lot of time and complexity over the years. 

@zlone 

I’m still undecided about getting a cable cooker. Many says improvements. Some cook their cables periodically.  

@vthokie83  Which Neotech cable and connectors are you using? The right ones could be the solution, the wrong ones more of the same

Sorry, I forgot to answer this question. I am using the NEMO-I3220 on this page:

https://www.neotechcable.com/NEMOI-cable.html

And for connectors:

https://canadianhifi.com/shop/parts/rca/neotech-ner-occ-gd-rca-rca/

I started down this path before the AZ Absolutes became available at a great price. My goal was to experiment along the same lines with rectangular OCC Copper, which is used in the Absolutes, but probably in a different configuration/geometry.

Challenging cable and connectors to work with, but I completed these cables yesterday and have them breaking in on my system. I will play them for a week or two and then put the Absolutes back in and condense my thoughts. 

@mclinnguy decooney Kind of like salting potatoes: "more, that’s better, yeah more, more- Woah, too much!"

As simple as that explanation seems about "salt", I guess I never thought about it like that, spices and all - so true. Great analogy. I think @hilde45 likes to use the food analogy too quite a bit. Something we all can relate to every day we eat.

Same kind goes with lightly sugared cake maybe, it can be fantastic and delicate tasting with the right balance, not too much. It really does capture the idea of it all.

System matching is critical.  I never had a cable mismatch wherein the sound was only acceptable at low volumes and not at high volumes.  Until 2023, I only used tube gear.  Now I have solid state amps and phono pre-amp.  

I can attest to the vast differences any one particular cable can make.  My friend and I both purchased Paradox Pulse SPDIF digital cables.  We both used Topping D70s DACs and similar high quality transports.  In his 1980s all tube system (Luxman C35 3 and RAM RM 9), his digital sound was lean and lacking in bass.  In my system, it has a rich, full bodied sound with big bass slam.  Detailed in both systems.  So, he then swapped in my GroverHuffman SPDIF cable.  In his system it restored all the bass and warmth.  In my system, it did the same but sounded smeared in that imaging was blurred at the speaker.  We both have VS speakers.  

It's a hassle, but cabling has to be heard in a system to determine one's sound preferences as well as coherence within the system.  

@decooney

Kind of like salting potatoes: "more, that's better, yeah more, more- Woah, too much!"

@zlone "...Keep in mind that I have used several sets of interconnects with this system already, and there was no issue with leanness."

Had a full loom of "great" cables like this once. It did not start out this way, but seemed to become increasingly "less engaging" of a sound as I added more of the exact same type of cable throuhout the entire system. Tonal balance was lost.

Yes, letting the cables and dielectric relax and settle inside of each cable 200+ hours did help and sound did change some for the better, but that leanness you refer to was still kinda there. Did not really go away. It was simply not a great match for my amp and preamplifier at the time was the final conclusion. Took a while to admit this and back out of it all - to literally start over from scratch. Went back to a baseline. Others have suggested that familiar "baseline". Then I read the statement you posed above.

Sure, give it more time. If that does not work, go back to the entire set of those former/familiar cables and listen for 2 weeks. You’ll find your answer with no more advice from anyone here needed. Hopefully you kept a few of those old cables around to re-test.  Exactly the reason I don't immediately resell former cables. 

Sometimes pairing up an amplifier known for that added "clarity" and "detail" with a set of cables known for the same characteristics can give you exactly that as.a result. I’ve found some combinations of expensive cables can simply tilt too far in a direction you now hear as no longer being "engaging". This can happen.

@sfpeloton  Thanks for helping me with my decision to purchase the Audionet Amp 1 v2! I am really enjoying it.

Good to hear, it is fantastic equipment.

@barrysandy I've used AZ Absolute copper cables for many years. They are somewhat warm sounding and quite engaging.  I just recently did a cable shootout with 4 sets of $4K cables and 2 sets of $9K cables.  Yes some of them were better than the AZs, but 1 only dramatically better across the board (an expensive one).

Your problem is somewhere else, but try:

Leaving them in awhile longer.

Yours is a common story with AZ, I and many others have found them to be special, and relatively cost effective within this hobby.

It is my plan to let them soak for longer.

@barrysandy 

I've used AZ Absolute copper cables for many years.....I just recently did a cable shootout with 4 sets of $4K cables and 2 sets of $9K cables. 

Just to clarify: You are referring to the interconnect here? 

@gp4jesus Good advice under any circumstances, it seems to have a positive effect to reseat connections once in awhile. However, for my ears and system, it seems to take a few days for everything to sound totally right after reseating and cleaning connections. 

I had adjusted my Von Schweikert VR9 SE Mk2 upgraded speakers to my equipment and cabling for nearly a year (7 control features).  One problem I thought I had was too much bass with the 1000w powered 15" Rel subs in the rear despite minimal gain at +2 clicks.  I just purchased a pair of Westminster Labs Ultra power cables for both the speakers and the WL Rei amps.  The clarity, dynamic range and even/neutral frequency response was significantly better than my 15X lower cost cabling which was very good but I had to set my bass phase to -90 degrees.  So, installing those four power cables sounded a little lean, lacking in body/richness as you would say.  Then I readjusted the phase back to 0 degrees, aiming the bass between instead of outside of the speakers and voila!  Great rich ffull bodied sound like I've never heard but with all the clarity.  I was rather surprised but the distributor informed me that the higher end WL and Masterbuilt cabling brought more richness/body to the sound.  Now my speakers are not sounding overloaded with in phase bass.  I did not try other high end power cables as for 25 years, GroverHuffman builds great power cables at very reasonable prices.  15X the GH price and one has to be careful.  There is no question as to the SOTA quality of those WL and Masterbuilt (I've heard over the last decade) power cables (as well as ICs). 

Hi @zlone. Thanks for helping me with my decision to purchase the Audionet Amp 1 v2! I am really enjoying it.

I can't say I am an expert on this amp since I only got it recently and haven't yet tried many cables with it; however, it does appear to be very transparent and very revealing of upstream equipment. It is bringing out the best in my LTA microztl. 

Sounds like the AZ interconnects are starting to come around? Maybe they are not "bright" but just a higher quality cable that is more revealing? I agree with others that it is probably worth giving them some more time. The Iconoclast cables I have between my pre and amp are working very well to my ears and they are considered pretty linear/neutral cables. 

I've used AZ Absolute copper cables for many years. They are somewhat warm sounding and quite engaging.  I just recently did a cable shootout with 4 sets of $4K cables and 2 sets of $9K cables.  Yes some of them were better than the AZs, but 1 only dramatically better across the board (an expensive one).

Your problem is somewhere else, but try:

Leaving them in awhile longer.

Using a cable cooker, or putting a CD player on repeat with test tones like the  Ayre Cardas System Enhancement Disc.

Good luck!

My penny & 1/2: Re-seat* ALL connections @ both ends 

1. shut down system***; wait at least 30 seconds

2. disconnect speakers @ the amp 

3. re-seat any/all power & ICs

4. re-seat @ the speakers** 

5. reconnect** @ the amp. 

6. power up to enjoy your new, better sounding system 
*unplug and plug in at least twice
***power conditioner too

Newsflash: the cables didn't sound any different. At all. You created a bias and you're brain told you you heard something different. But you didn't. Enjoy. 

@zlone just teasing a bit ;)

Sometimes in an emotional storm, logic goes out the window- simply human nature 

Hope you land in a great place. Good luck

Zlone

Which Neotech cable and connectors are you using? The right ones could be the solution, the wrong ones more of the same

@kennyc I’m reminded of chicken little

That's fair. I have broken in a lot of cables, this one was just really different.

This for me has bested them all. Has the trun to tighten feature too. Ground wires too. 

I’m reminded of chicken little

Saw it in your system. I will add some additional info for your consideration…

At one point I had Gargantua II cords and Absolute copper interconnects together and it was walking a thin line where another warm component ir cable could tip the scale. As it happened my buddy brought over his Absolute Copper sp cables and that indeed was a straw that broke the camel’s back. I absolutely hated it. I eventually got rid of AZ power cords and just kept the interconnects until they were replaced by Nordost Tyr 2.
Again just a data point for you. Means very little otherwise as our systems are drastically different but you can read between the lines. 

@audphile1 if you want it even thicker look for Absolute Copper speaker cables. Might be a good match with those Kefs

You read my mind. I am using the Hologram II's right now.

He could have bought mine- I traded them into TMR about 6 months ago but I believe they have sold. 

@zlone good!

if you want it even thicker look for Absolute Copper speaker cables. Might be a good match with those Kefs

I went through something similar when I installed my Silversmith Audio Fidelium speaker cables.  It took a while to adjust to the additional clarity, detail, and tighter bass.  

If you want to try another inexpensive cable for grins, I just bought a Graham Slee AgSat90 interconnect.  Hooked it up last night.  A little over $200.  Had to buy it from a UK seller on eBay.  I can't believe how stinking good it is.  

The sound is starting to fill in with more time on the cables. I am now confident that these cables will be very good after another week of play. I will report back once they have had more time. I have just never had a cable sound so different, and uncharacteristic of the electronics, after a couple of days of sustained play, which is why I posted the original comment. 

@mclinnguy I believe the characterizations of Audionet that you posted are accurate. I have been quite smitten with their pre/amp, enough to sell my Pass/Coda combination.

@audphile1 As I mentioned, things are coming around, and the Audionet sound I have come to love is starting to show through again. 

Thanks everyone for all your comments. I will keep you posted.

Another vote for Cardas Clear and Beyond. Tried the Reflection, it did not have the same magic IMHO. Found the reflection a little flat with my equipment (Pass, Moon, Harbeth).

Blisshifi states the Audionet amps are warm and rich biased, and others also have nice things to say about them, now I’m really confused:

Perhaps that older AZ RCA is defective? I know you said it has amazing detail, but like Audphile1 is saying which is my memory of them also, a lack of bass is not in AZ vocabulary- something doesn’t add up. Good news is you got them from TMR so it would be easy to exchange. 

"Audionet is exceptional every step of the way, but it prioritizes a rich tonal density and balance (that many electronics manufacturers can only dream of achieving) over microdynamics and detail."

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/help-me-choose-between-audionet-and-constellation-audio

@zlone Did you find one of your other RCA cables that you tried to be engaging?

Is it possible that it's your new amp?

@zlone the absolute copper may be warm and may not be exciting sounding but lean they’re not. I had so much bass output in my system with these interconnects that I had to switch to the faster sounding Nordost. What you’re hearing now is your components. The amp and preamp in full glory whether you like or not. If you want more meat on the bone add a sub and or change your electronics. I know this is not what you want to hear but that’s what you’re going to end up doing. You can try and color the sound with AQ Hurricane power cords etc. but like I mentioned before that’s a temporary band-aid.
Good luck.

Ok, I did ask that above:

You are saying these other "lesser" RCA's you used had more warmth? Is that a case of the Absolute copper's being tighter and more accurate with the bass? 

Not the power cable then. Hmmm.. 

@mclinnguy I agree that it would be hard to assess my power cords and how they might be affecting the system. Keep in mind that I have used several sets of interconnects with this system already, and there was no issue with leanness. You make a valid point, but I don’t think it is relevant to this situation. 

 

richardbrand

252 posts

01-28-2025 at 03:08pm 

... and on the 201-st hour the lord said "let there be light" and there was light and it was coloured ...
 

That was the fiber optic cable story. We’re talking about analog interconnects here. You’re clueless and still annoying AF

most believe the only part that is visible is from 380 to 700... 

so sell them when they get to 690!

... and on the 201-st hour the lord said "let there be light" and there was light and it was coloured ...

@mclinnguy  I practice every day!  I spend at least an hour a day banging my head against a brick wall in the hopes I may someday knock all semblance of common-sense out of my brain and truly become a cable-idolizing audiophile.

@zlone

Neotech makes fantastic cable, and I have heard some wonderful things about their cables, but I have no experience with them (yet), and sounds like you DIY’d it- so it is near impossible to compare with other’s notes on Neotech power cables.

No doubt they are "sufficient", but it is interesting you chose this term.

You are going through hearing differences in interconnects; many experienced "cable rollers" state power cables make the most difference of any cable change- speaker cables included.

@jhnnrrs 

Keep practicing. One day you might become an audiophile. 

@steakster ​​@mclinnguy Regarding power cables, I am running Neotech 3001 with either Neotech or Wireworld plugs, one into a PS Audio P15, and then from the P15 to the amp. Dedicated 20 amp line with Furutech NCF outlet.

https://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-nep-3001-mk-iii-p-4949

Maybe not the last word in power cables, but probably sufficient.

mclinnguy

. . . is to search for a power cable for the amp that can richen things up

+1

@lak Just a thought I had early this morning, I don't recall if the Acustic Zen Absolute Copper RCA's are directional or not. Is it possible they will sound more to your liking in a reversed fashion? @zlone you never said if the interconnects were new or used?

That's a good thought, yes they are directional and installed the correct way. It would be easy to miss the arrows on the labels, so it would be easy to install them incorrectly.

They are used. I bought them from TMR which stated they were seven years old. No other information beyond that, they might have been sitting on a shelf for years before they were sold, who knows. Some minor flaws, but got a good deal on them.

I am confident they will open up a bit over the next few days.