Why wont speaker companies publish their measurements?
It's not ok to assess the quality of a speaker just by listening to it. Most listeners are not trained. They dont have the skills or knowledge of an expert like me to know what the hell they are listening for. There are too many other variables that affect the sound quality such as room acoustics, source material, amp quality, hearing loss, preference etc. For all these reasons, we MUST rely on speaker measurements ALONE when deciding how good a speaker is.
The problem is however that the wretched speaker companies WONT DO IT! They just will not publish their measurements.
Are they embarrassed? Are they hiding it? Do they even have the measurements? Worried they wont match if somebody else does the measurements?
Speaker companies cannot claim that their speaker is superior to a competitors speaker since neither of them will publish their measurements. As a result the claims are uncorroborated HOGWASH. Despite this, there is intense competition among the speaker companies. There is a WAR going on out there and its a war that cannot be won!
The only way to separate the wheat from the chaff is to examine the measurements. Until that happens nobody has the right to claim that one speaker is better than another. Nobody knows which speakers are better than others. Until the day comes when they will publish the data, its all just hearsay and opinions.
If you want to be a first rate audiophile, do not settle for anything less than the TRUTH. We deserve it.
The problem is however that the wretched speaker companies WONT DO IT! They just will not publish their measurements.
Are they embarrassed? Are they hiding it? Do they even have the measurements? Worried they wont match if somebody else does the measurements?
Speaker companies cannot claim that their speaker is superior to a competitors speaker since neither of them will publish their measurements. As a result the claims are uncorroborated HOGWASH. Despite this, there is intense competition among the speaker companies. There is a WAR going on out there and its a war that cannot be won!
The only way to separate the wheat from the chaff is to examine the measurements. Until that happens nobody has the right to claim that one speaker is better than another. Nobody knows which speakers are better than others. Until the day comes when they will publish the data, its all just hearsay and opinions.
If you want to be a first rate audiophile, do not settle for anything less than the TRUTH. We deserve it.
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Well, I just hope that this speaker "war" doesn't escalate to the nuclear level.....this could result in the virtual destruction of ALL speakers. Then we would be in trouble. Meanwhile, all of us can take comfort in the fact that any of us can easily get "measurements" of width, height, depth, and weight. |
I've read this book before. A classic. Viz., "I am a sick man....I am a spiteful man....But do you know, gentlemen, what was the chief point about my spite? Why, the whole point, the real sting of it lay in the fact that continually, even in the moment of the acutest spleen, I was inwardly conscious with shame that I was not only not a spiteful but not even an embittered man, that I was simply scaring sparrows at random and amusing myself by it." https://www.gutenberg.org/files/600/600-h/600-h.htm |
hilde451,489 posts
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another way to look at it is, a butterfly is beautiful, so what ate my plum trees the year before.. little suckers. They start out one way and end up another.. People are the same way... Monsters behind a keyboard.. Wonderful folks in public... Go figure.. Regards |
I am taking the position that, while Kenjit may be pushing his arguments way beyond reasonable limits (as he is wont to do), his criticism of the speaker companies to not publish standardized measurements is valid. No one should dispute the right and the necessity for a buyer to audition speakers before making a choice. OTOH, the manufacturer’s withholding of objective data is unfair and insulting. |
Even though it's a rambling ego centric post I agree about speaker companies not showing measurements of their speakers. You can find some on various websites and magazines but it would be nice if companies posted measurements. Measurements can be helpful in narrowing down what you're looking for. Wide or narrow directivity, flat FR, distortion % in the woofers. |
Many companies do publish useful measurements to help people choose. Stick with those if desired. Also Stereophile and other orgs actually measure gear they review including speakers.....also useful. Most people could care less about specs and measurements. They just buy what they like based of whatever criteria they want and some companies just rely on that and marketing to sell stuff. Happens here all the time...surprise!. Different strokes for different folks. Nothing special to see here. But that won’t stop Kenjit I’m sure. The world is imperfect and just cannot seem to serve a self-proclaimed expert like him well and he wants everybody to hear how an expert like him who is all knowing is so totally lost and confused. Go figure! Poor little guy! |
Most people could care less about specs and measurements. They just buy what they like based of whatever criteria they want and some companies just rely on that and marketing to sell stuff. Happens here all the time...surprise!.That's the way most people buy most things and why advertising and PR have more influence on the general market than do logic or value. One would hope, however, that people with a deep interest and enthusiasm in a hobby might be more reflective. Guess not. If your talking about the in depth detail that Stereophile go into when they measure speakers, it's because most don't have that kind of expensive measuring equipment/room, just the basics.Sad, imho, but true. OTOH, there are many that do have the measurements but won't divulge them and others that are large/successful enough to do so but choose not to. |
If your talking about the in depth detail that Stereophile go into when they measure speakers, it's because most don't have that kind of expensive measuring equipment/room, just the basics. But there are plenty of test facilities around... I can rent an anechoic chamber 10 miles away and I'm in a rural part of England. There must be loads of facilities in the US. Test equipment isn't hard to hire either... If you're speccing a product then you only have to do it once provided you've got decent manufacturing processes. I think there might be a reluctance because loudspeakers by their nature don't measure well in comparison to the other parts of a hi-fi. |
Many companies do publish useful measurements to help people choose. Stick with those if desired.Go to Magicos website and show me where the measurements are. Also Stereophile and other orgs actually measure gear they review including speakers.....also useful.So that absolves the speaker companies of responsibility does it now? No it does not. Most people could care less about specs and measurements.Thats because most people are not TRUE audiophiles. Being a true audiophile requires the pursuit of PERFECTION, not simply what you think sounds best to your ears. I am now revoking your title of Audiophile. You are hereby demoted to AMATEUR HOBBYIST with immediate effect. All the best, Master Kenjit. Senior Audiophile |
KEnjit I hate to break the news to you but trolling audiophiles is no great accomplishment.There is no such thing as trolling. It cant be proven. when you start you own speaker company I will look for the specs and measurements so you can show everyone how to do it right.There wont be any measurements. They will be hand tuned by ear and they will cost upwards of $100K. Demo by appointment only. Proof of income will be required. All the best. |
Dill I have had a look at your speakers and I can see that they have a lot of problems that will need to be fixed. I can tell you that there is a lot of distortion going on inside your speakers. You would be shocked. It is very important to have zero distortion speakers Dill. Wood is never a good material to use as it isnt strong enough. Unfortunately your speakers are wooden. The drivers dont look very good either. What are they? |
Don’t know what you’re talking about kenjit, Tekton publishes their speaker measurements. The Moab for example is 14x17x69.Wrong measurements I’m afraid. If they did give you the numbers, and they were what you liked, what would you do if the speakers still sounded BAD to you?They wouldn’t. They would only sound bad if the recording was bad or the acoustics. There are obviously other variables at play |
Hey, you are correct, so I vacuumed out all the "distortion going on inside your speakers". Guess what, it does sound different, it sounds worse with zero distortion! The inside is made of solid ice so the sound just slides out, effortlessly, smooth and cool. The drivers at one time where not very good, however I enrolled them in driving school and the improvement is jaw dropping. Looking forward to your next silly statement, I am sure you won't disappoint. |
Genelec 8351BIve heard the smaller ones. Not that good. Horrible things. Measurements have to be standardized. We need the CORRECT and COMPLETE measurements not just the ones the speaker companies find convenient. Not just one or two that look good and omitting the ones that are bad. The genelecs use DSP to achieve flat response. Thats cheating. Anybody could do that. |
Dill if you want my expert advice, you are going to have to face up to the facts. If you want better sound you are just going to have to get rid of those nasty speakers you have. I used to own wooden boxes like that before. They are ok for teenagers or people that dont require a high level of sound quality. But if you want PERFECT sound, you will need to upgrade. If you knock on your wooden boxes, you will hear a nasty resonance. Unfortunately you will have a lot of midrange leakage out the front port too. And since it a sealed box you have trapped all that horrible sound inside where it cant get out. Kef use meta technology to remove this leakage but yours obviously dont use meta technology so it wont be as good. As you can see speaker design is not easy. It requires a lot of knowledge to get it right. |