Why wont speaker companies publish their measurements?

New on forums, but not new to reading some of OP’s posts and not new to dealing with terminal narcissism. Note to all responders to OP: Narcissists care not if attention is negative or positive as long as they get attention. I am only posting for the responders lest you think I’ve fallen for the OP’s troll centric ploy.

Totally agree.  Simply buy Magnepan speakers and you will never need to measure anything again.

You have the best, once and for all!

Cheers!

Of course manufacturers have the equipment and measure their speakers, in many cases exhaustively, in the privacy of their own premises.

But If manufacturers published measurements you can bet they will be falsified or taken under optimum or artificial conditions.  So there would no, indeed negative, purpose to it.

Almost every speaker company publishes sensitivity figures and almost all exaggerate, some by up to 5dB.

Most companies are dishonest these days.  Think Volkswagen pollution, all car companies miles per gallon tests, the banks and insurance companies, inflammable building cladding in the UK, etc etc.

Best just to let John Atkinson do it.  And I doubt the equipment he uses costs more than $1,000 or so.  Including the 'cheap plastic tape accelerometer' that reveals cabinet resonances.

Kenjit-you talk a good game, but what do YOU own.?  You have no information or pics in the Virtual Systems section.  I’ve asked before, but no response, nothing but crickets...

"Specs are subject to change without prior notice"

G

Kenjit, you are so narrow minded. You seem to look at a few commercially available speakers, most likely via magazines or internet. You cannot get the whole speaker specification from that.

My speakers have a page and a half of specifications, and also the availability of any of the engineers/ designers.
My other set were installed by the actual designer/ builder from the US. I had a week to go over the specifications as he “tuned” the speakers to the HiFi equipment and room. He flew to Brisbane, AUS.

Kenjit, it’s obvious that you have a limited appreciation of what speaker specifications you need. Live with an associated engineer for a week and learn what it’s all about.

🇦🇺

Specs posted in sale brochures are more likely written by the sales staff than the engineering department. That is the problem with specifications.

And here's another perspective, from one of the few mags that still measures:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/how-does-music-make-you-feel

If nothing is ever good enough, any given measurments would never "measure up" to one's standards. Hence moot point,

" Go to Magicos website and show me where the measurements are."

They are there, Mr. know it all for all their speakers. Do the research yourself. Don't waste other people's time!

That wasn't me, but I went and looked all over the Magico website and couldn't find measurements. Are they hidden in a non-obvious place?

First, Kenjit, some of us believe in freedom. You want to remove freedom from the speaker manufacturers. Where else should we remove freedoms? It sounds like a dangerous argument in a time when the US Capitol was so recently stormed. 

Second, there are no standardized speaker measurements that exist. Those normally are established by some sort of industry consortium. Heck, we just recently changed official measurements for length and time. 

 Finding a set of measurements that all would agree to as relevant would not be easy. Anechoic measurements? Do you listen in an anechoic room? I don’t and would not choose to, even though such rooms are useful for modeling. They feel absolutely oppressive and lifeless to be in. Should we use test tones? They are not always reflective of music. And using which testing equipment. Lots of variation there. Often times, one has to figure out if problems that appear are engineering problems, or problems inherent in the test parameters themselves. What level of barometric pressure and room temperature should be chosen, as they impact speed and sound propagation?
Should we use a specific piece of music, or some from each genre? Using what source or playback equipment? How will we insure playback equipment is all operating at similar parameters in different testing centers?

How much will testing cost? Who absorbs the costs? Will this disadvantage small producers, reducing market competition and thus harming consumers? Will it increase cost of a product in which no one’s life is endangered (as opposed to cars or medicines)? Haven’t you repeatedly railed against what you see as inflated speaker cost?

i could do this all day long. 
And why on earth should the enjoyment of a subjective aesthetic experience be subjected to your notion of what the good is, Kenjit? There are about 20,000 things wrong with your post. 

Master Kenjit.

Senior Audiophile

Is it time for happy retirement?

" Nothing is ever good enough for me."
-What a sad, lonely life you must live

AudiogoN is not worried about what your opinion is when it comes to forum guidelines.

what guidelines? there are no guidelines. Even if there were, they dont stick to it.

WHAT SPEAKERS DO YOU OWN?

I have a few different ones. They are custom tuned. I dont have a permanent set of speakers because the pursuit of perfection is a lifelong quest. Nothing is ever good enough for me. So things are always being modified. 

I will ask Kenjit the same question i ask every time he posts one of his speaker rants...WHAT SPEAKERS DO YOU OWN?

Sorry your Green Mountain Audio speakers didn't work out for you.

Take plenty of time to heal (offline) and hopefully get over it.

DeKay

Hey Kenjit,

I know you get a ton of flack around here, but by the numbers you’re one of the most popular posters on this site. 

This hyena has started more threads - only to end up deleted - than any member I can remember in twenty years of being here.  LOL

You can delete the threads all you want but the TRUTH will remain. I have already told Audiogon that it will only harm their reputation if people find out that they delete posts which Audiogon find inconvenient. 

This hyena has started more threads - only to end up deleted - than any member I can remember in twenty years of being here.  LOL

They still use those old Yamaha ns 10m in some studios, they need to know what the music will sound like on Magicos and the other 99%  stuck in 1960. 

Why would you have Magico have you seen there measurements? 

how do we know youre not trolling djones51? where is the proof? 
You dont know what i have. Maybe i have a Magico in my house? you know nothing. DSP is not used by 99% of high end speakers. 

The genelecs are bad speakers. Very bad. I have heard them. Nobody on here shares your enthusiasm for them. They are never mentioned on here. They are studio speakers. Everybody knows studio speakers sound bad. Ever heard a yamaha ns10? They are shockingly BAD

Everyone knows he's trolling so when covid boredom takes over it passes the time. DSP is not cheating you dingbat it's the best way to do crossovers,   technology marches on.

No, it can never be a "good discussion" with kenjit. Read some of his previous posts over the last few months and you will get the idea.

The measurements are meaningless unless everybody does 'em. What speakers are they?

Usually they are meaningless to those that can't comprehend them, and they serve to tell one what amp/s would go well with them as well. 

Cheers George

Shame... this could have been a good discussion instead of a pissing contest.

Independent measurements demonstrate that much of the time the published figures are inaccurate, so there's not much point anyway.  

Dill if you want my expert advice, you are going to have to face up to the facts. If you want better sound you are just going to have to get rid of those nasty speakers you have. I used to own wooden boxes like that before. They are ok for teenagers or people that dont require a high level of sound quality. But if you want PERFECT sound, you will need to upgrade. If you knock on your wooden boxes, you will hear a nasty resonance. Unfortunately you will have a lot of midrange leakage out the front port too. And since it a sealed box you have trapped all that horrible sound inside where it cant get out. Kef use meta technology to remove this leakage but yours obviously dont use meta technology so it wont  be as good. As you can see speaker design is not easy. It requires a lot of knowledge to get it right. 

Genelec 8351B

Ive heard the smaller ones. Not that good. Horrible things. Measurements have to be standardized. We need the CORRECT and COMPLETE measurements not just the ones the speaker companies find convenient. Not just one or two that look good and omitting the ones that are bad. The genelecs use DSP to achieve flat response. Thats cheating. Anybody could do that.

Hey, you are correct, so I vacuumed out all the "distortion going on inside your speakers". Guess what, it does sound different, it sounds worse with zero distortion! The inside is made of solid ice so the sound just slides out, effortlessly, smooth and cool. The drivers at one time where not very good, however I enrolled them in driving school and the improvement is jaw dropping. Looking forward to your next silly statement, I am sure you won't disappoint.

No. They should.

If you know where to look you can find this stuff instead of bitching about it

Or maybe the speaker companies should publish them so that people like me dont have to bitch about it? Did that ever occur to you?

Whats the REASON they wont do it?  Do you have any answers to that? 

Nothing anyone here would have, they measure to good. Genelec 8351B

doesnt matter. The measurements are meaningless unless everybody does 'em. What speakers are they?

If you know where to look you can find this stuff instead of bitching about it. Now alot of the speakers I see being praised here like Tekton for instance you’re not going to find much but what there is shows they are mostly junk.

Yes they have been verified by a third party

No, I'm not. Everything from the simple specs to waterfall plots.

Have they been verified? Can they be trusted? No they cannot. And what good would it be anyway if only a few companies publish their measurements and nobody else does? You cant compare them if everybody doesnt do it. Dont be so naive

I wouldn't buy a speaker without seeing the measurements.

Thats because you are probably looking at the wrong measurements. We are not talking about weight and size.

No, I'm not. Everything from the simple specs to waterfall plots. 

Don’t know what you’re talking about kenjit, Tekton publishes their speaker measurements. The Moab for example is 14x17x69.

Wrong measurements I’m afraid.

If they did give you the numbers, and they were what you liked, what would you do if the speakers still sounded BAD to you?

They wouldn’t. They would only sound bad if the recording was bad or the acoustics. There are obviously other variables at play

Dill I have had a look at your speakers and I can see that they have a lot of problems that will need to be fixed. I can tell you that there is a lot of distortion going on inside your speakers. You would be shocked. It is very important to have zero distortion speakers Dill. Wood is never a good material to use as it isnt strong enough. Unfortunately your speakers are wooden. The drivers dont look very good either. What are they? 

I can find every measurement I wanted for my speakers on the manufacturer website.

Thats because you are probably looking at the wrong measurements. We are not talking about weight and size. 

KEnjit I hate to break the news to you but trolling audiophiles is no great accomplishment.  

There is no such thing as trolling. It cant be proven.

when you start you own speaker company I will look for the specs and measurements so you can show everyone how to do it right.

There wont be any measurements. They will be hand tuned by ear and they will cost upwards of $100K. Demo by appointment only. Proof of income will be required. 

All the best.

I can find every measurement I wanted for my speakers on the manufacturer website. 

KEnjit I hate to break the news to you but trolling audiophiles is no great accomplishment. Anyone with enough time to waste who actually cares can do it.

When you start you own speaker company I will look for the specs and measurements so you can show everyone how to do it right.

Cheers!

" Go to Magicos website and show me where the measurements are."

They are there, Mr. know it all for all their speakers. Do the research yourself. Don't waste other people's time!

" Being a true audiophile requires the pursuit of PERFECTION, not simply what you think sounds best to your ears"

Wrong, it is just your opinion, that really carries very little weight. A legend nersissist in your own mind and the power to influence no man.

Many companies do publish useful measurements to help people choose. Stick with those if desired.

Go to Magicos website and show me where the measurements are.

Also Stereophile and other orgs actually measure gear they review including speakers.....also useful.

So that absolves the speaker companies of responsibility does it now?  No it does not.

Most people could care less about specs and measurements.

Thats because most people are not TRUE audiophiles. Being a true audiophile requires the pursuit of PERFECTION, not simply what you think sounds best to your ears. I am now revoking your title of Audiophile. You are hereby demoted to AMATEUR HOBBYIST with immediate effect.

All the best,

Master Kenjit.

Senior Audiophile 

If your talking about the in depth detail that Stereophile go into when they measure speakers, it's because most don't have that kind of expensive measuring equipment/room, just the basics.

But there are plenty of test facilities around... I can rent an anechoic chamber 10 miles away and I'm in a rural part of England. There must be loads of facilities in the US. Test equipment isn't hard to hire either... If you're speccing a product then you only have to do it once provided you've got decent manufacturing processes. 
I think there might be a reluctance because loudspeakers by their nature don't measure well in comparison to the other parts of a hi-fi.