Why the hate for mcintosh amps?

When they get their warranty in line with their prices, maybe.  
My last 3 Mac amps failed during warranty but real close to that date.
NEVER again

I just saw 2 weeks ago two Luxman 900u sell for barely over $11,000.00 each. That’s almost a 50% drop off for amplifiers especially being 19-20k new. Those amplifiers were less than a year old. I do like some of the Luxman amplifiers but I’m not interested in taking a beating from a manufacturer. At that point might as well buy used with warranty left. As far as Japanese high end equipment go, Accuphase is a great choice.

I see a ton of used Mcintosh amps for sale almost brand new. But very few brands like Luxman,  Esoteric etc on the used market.  I spoke to a dealer who said that buyers often trade  Mcintosh amps  for Luxman amps.

roxy544,641 

Ummmm, I didn’t buy it because it is more expensive. Not sure when you last check but McIntosh does make a $90,000.00 amplifier, smh. It’s called the McIntosh MC2kw. See what I mean folks. Homework please, homework, lol.

I love my McIntosh integrated.  It sounds great to me, is built like a tank, looks fantastic and is made in America.  Of course it has meters, which for me, is a must.  If I didn't have it, I would have an Accuphase, Luxman or a Yamaha with meters. 
I must have meters.  I love them!

This is an interesting one, and perhaps I have an answer.

I think the "hate" comes from not understanding what McIntosh is best at.  That is room flexibility.  I've never had the luxury of having a dedicated stereo room, so I never could get optimum acoustics.

They even have test equipment at the plant to make their equipment more forgiving.  McIntosh amps and preamps work the best in unoptimized rooms.

Let me explain.  During my solid state days, I tried out a Rowland amp and compared it with my Mac amp at the store.  The Rowland sounded quite a bit better with perfect setup at the store.  I take it home and set it up in my living room--the Rowland sounded a lot worse.  My wife, who has better ears than me and could care less about the equipment, asked me what was wrong with the stereo.

I put the Mac amp back in the system.

Frankly, I don't even want a dedicated stereo room.  It is more fun to share the equipment with family and friends in a more comfortable setting.

I am sitting in my room with one of my systems, and it is wonderful.  Is it as good as the best setups I've heard?  No, but with the Jean Nantais turntable, it is very, very close.  And I can enjoy it while I am working, like right now.  I don't have to sit in a specialized room to enjoy it.

That is probably one reason McIntosh equipment is still quite popular.

100% agree with the theme of enjoying what you have. It is hard to stay in the present long enough to appreciate the moment and audiophiles (myself included) seem to often have our feelers out for the next upgrade.

Love my Mac tube gear, sourced with VPI Aries 3, delivered with Magico A5's, supported by a B&W DB3D.

“McIntosh are like elephants, nice to look at, but, I wouldn’t want to have one.”
W. C. Fields 

Compared to CH Precision, Mac gear is dirt cheap.

Also, more expensive never means better. Look at what Corvette is doing to the auto industry now with their mid engine vehicle or what Dodge Viper Acer did to 10 out of 13 track records, lol. You never know, lol!

I haven’t tried the Wavvac gear. I heard that they are pretty darn good. I just can’t part ways with my Cary Audio SLP05 Preamp with the Ultimate Upgrade, Cardis Wiring and tube rolled. It is dual chassis. Love it. Here is a review of the unit.
https://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/906cary/index.html

As regards to the Boulder, mine put out heat but nothing like the Krell. My biggest issue was pairing with my speakers. I will let you know how the CH Precision A1.5 stacks up to Boulder. 

The Boulder 1160 stereo amp is $28,000.  The Mac 611 monos are $15,000 a pair.  I would hope the Boulders would be better.

@gavman 

You sound like a twitter troll. Why are you trying to politicize McIntosh? They’re based in New York for god’s sake!

There equipment is expensive because it's good.i have only bought used equipment at a good price and have had no problems. 

Rolexes are jewelry and it is ridiculous to compare McIntosh to Rolex unless you never intend to play it. The most accurate timepieces are quartz, but they don't have a sweeping second hand. I prefer that but realize it may lose a minute or two a month. I've never got even close to the point of it needing resetting before winding it anyhow. 

People buy jewelry as luxury items and when they can be good investments also, why not? Most are not - Rolex and other collectible watches are the exceptions.

Most people buy higher end audio equipment for the sound, so long as the look isn't atrocious. If McIntosh offers poor value as most audiophiles agree, then the people most likely to buy them are looking at it from an investment of luxury good/snob appeal standpoint. There's a market for everything.

@decathalon1991

I currently own a Boulder 2060 and I'm almost two- third's way through saving to upgrade to 2160. I don't have any heat issues....other than my cats wanting to sit atop it when running, which lead to the cat puke- instigated upgrade from 2060 to 2160.
 Basically Boulder rebuilt my 2060 with the main board from a 2160, and the sonic improvements were enough to persuade me to commit half of my entire income, for three years, to buy a 2160.
 I find the combination with Focal Stella Utopia speakers and Wavac pre-amp to be a match made in heaven; just sooo musical, richly textured, and powerful; never sounds 'loud' or fatiguing no matter how far it is cranked, and with such exquisite delicacy one need never hanker for valves in the output stage

My new amplifier replacing the Krell solid state will be the CH Precision A1.5:-) I like to have tube and solid state. I tend to swap back and forth depending on my listing taste. It will be my first time owning that brand.  

Folks really truly have issues especially when politics come to play. They don’t do their homework, they just talk. I’m sure they also took place in the negative notion of Facebook, Twitter, etch and was highly upset that the system was shut down and they couldn’t rant, lol. I’m truly happy I don’t live in their bubble because if the world was the same, it would definitely be boring. As one said, some call themselves an audiophile and some truly have no real experience with some of the McIntosh products. They take their hatred and scramble it all together and label the company. By the way, I use different and the best products as I relate to how it sounds TO ME, lol.  Here are some suggestions for all of the haters. 
1. Enjoy whatever components you own.
2. Stop trying to convince anyone to join your bandwagon 
3. stop hating the big company just because you like the little company. (I dab in both and don’t Discriminate)
4. Do your homework before you judge a product and the company as a whole. That goes for any company, not just McIntosh.
5. If you believe that all of these other companies got into the audio game not for profit, you have just displayed how much of a ignorant you have become and it’s ashamed. Don’t hate the player, hate the game as they say.6. Please find another site as I’m sure that Audiogon intended this site to be helpful to buyers especially new ones. 
There, I said what some of you are thinking and my comments doesn’t pertain to this thread alone. It pertains to others as well. 

Agreed rsf507

 I fail to understand why anyone would choose Mac over Boulder....or even Krell.
The only answer that makes sense is they haven't experienced what those brands can do, Boulder especially. 

@gavman add one more thing. Once heard you will know there is a LOT better out there.

I’ve covered the globe with different brands of equipment as I’m sure most of you have. Let’s cut to the chase because I use to be negative like some of the S… Starters here. At the end of the day, it’s big company VS little company. If you have had the opportunity to try different McIntosh amplifiers like myself you will notice that they all sound different. Some are more drastic than others. If you have ever had the experience to listen to the McIntosh MC2301 Tube Monoblock Amplifiers with your choice of components, you will sing a different tune about them. They are incredible and most audiophiles can’t argue that they are not. It is one of the best piece of equipment that they have ever made. I didn’t like any of their preamps meshing with the Monoblock amplifiers so I am using a Cary Audio SLP05 Preamp with the Ultimate Upgrade, Cardis wiring, and tube rolled. I have the sound I was looking for with my Wilson Audio Maxx 2 speakers. Best of luck to you chaps!

I have been selling audio for a long time now. I sold a lot of Mac back in the day, not so much anymore don't know why. I don't think there is any piece of equipment ever manufactured that does not have it's haters. sometimes it seems like people bash other peoples equipment in an attempt to make there's sound better. The important thing is not what other people think about your equipment but what you think about your equipment. If haters had any credibility most people would never buy anything.

I'm a McIntosh owner and have been for 30 years.  When I was younger and would visit various hi fi shops, I would honestly be reluctant to tell the salesperson that I had McIntosh gear (if they were not a McIntosh dealer).  There was plenty of perceived distain from salespersons when announcing I had Mc gear.

Also, I distinctly remember that one shop in my area would politely run down my McIntosh pieces as being inferior "high end" gear.  That all changed when they became a McIntosh dealer.  Then, I had really cool gear.  Hmmm...interesting behavior.

Gotta comment on the Rotel and Arcam setup mentioned above.  Certainly a lot of bang for the buck there and I've been impressed with my Arcam (rebadged as JBL SDA-2200) power amps.  Made in China, but they sound good.  There is a lot of great sounding gear that is way less expensive than McIntosh.  That for sure is fact.

One of my vintage pieces is a MC250.  50x2 solid state amp.  20-30 years ago, that was a horrible amplifier to most people.  Colored, way too warm sounding, House Sound McIntosh; yuk.  Similar to a boat anchor except heavier.  You couldn't give 'em away.  Now, try finding a nice one for less than $1,000.  Good luck.  I've really enjoyed the MC250 for over 30 years now and still is a favorite to fire up.  Still sounds great to my old ears and no issues ever.

I've heard a lot of very nice sounding, high end systems over the years.  I've never said once that "that system sounds terrible".  All this stuff sounds fantastic if it's set up correctly in a good room.  Every system has it's pluses and minuses, but overall, there is a lot of incredible equipment made by many manufacturers.  We all have choices on what to buy and that's a good thing.

This year, I replaced almost my entire system and retired the old McIntosh pieces.  While I had nearly a million choices, I replaced all the electronics with new McIntosh.  I overpaid for everything as compared to what one can source from other brands (see the Rotel / Arcam post again).

I don't have a $300,000 Lambo, don't live in NJ, am not a doctor or lawyer and no one will ever see my system in my living room.  We do get a lot of snow though.  I simply like what I like and to me, my system is a ton of enjoyment.  That's what's most important at this stage of my life.

@campaigner82
I appreciate your thoughts. A couple of of questions:
1) Were the B&W speakers used in the listening session the D’4’s or D3’s? You stated D4 but you also stated you had purchased them 2 years ago. 2) Also, when hooked up to the McIntosh, were they using mono blocks or a stereo amp? 3) which Bryston amp are you using now?

Most people I know and have listen to my system love McIntosh!

Way back in my College Park days, to be among the gods of stereo, McIntosh driving 901 Bose was Nirvana....so many thought.  The people I met then, are much the same as today: to really be impressed, the volume must be high with Mc., and especially with Bose.  By the late 70s, lots of reading, listening and experiencing Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, AR, Quad, even Dynaco, among others,  began a journey that continues.

How "veiled" is McIntosh compared to others? 

Dumb question, there isn't an amp mfg out there that doesn't admire McIntosh's longevity, contributions to the industry and annual unit sales, people like what they have and if it isn't McIntosh would you expect them to say how good they are? 

McIntosh must be doing something right. I reckon they sell more high end audio equipment than any other manufacturer out there. I collect wine as another hobby - this reminds me of the wine boards where the “cognoscenti” will trash a successful wine producer for nothing more than the wine being successful and more mass produced than some obscure label. Buy what you like and like what you buy!

I have read that having a McIntosh repaired can be a crap shoot. Sometimes it will come back with shoddy work being done depending on who benched it. But to be fair that could happen with other brands. I also think that when a brand is purchased by a larger conglomerate profit is the goal not the sound quality, I also like to speak with ownership when I have a problem that is why I have PS Audio and Pass Labs gear. When it comes to service after the purchase I would challenge anyone to name two other companies in the industry that do a better job.

local tech owns a bunch of vintage mac gear. his system sounds (and looks) exquisite. i've never owned any and probably won't - i've had the opportunity to purchase some of the stuff but even putting the price to the side, the vintage merry go round just isn't for me anymore.

local dealer has the new big boy macs set up all pretty in their hifi room and they look very cool and "serious", but at the end of the day i don't make doctor money, and if i did, there are other brands i'm more interested in. but i'm with you, i don't get the hate - definitely a rolex/harley vibe attached to the brand but all of them are iconic for a reason

I fell in love with McIntosh equipment the 1st time I heard them back in 1974.  I wasn't able to afford anything until 2004.  I will never buy any other amplifier.  The look great, they sound great, and they hold their value.

People love to hate everything these days.
That's why. 
For me - sound quality + appearance + value = McIntosh. 
I started my McIntosh journey about a decade ago and I haven't looked back. 

I liken McIntosh buyers to people who buy $300,000 Lamborghinis when they live in New Jersey - or any other place where they get a lot of snow.

A perpetual stage of smugness. I feel sorry for people that attack others based on what they like and do not like. It shows an emotional immaturity and a need to be “different” through proof of physical possessions. It has manifested into the role of the internet “gate keeper” in an attempt to elevate their own decisions in life as superior to others. Sad. 
Later.

Wow!!!. Totally unbelievable.   Thank God we have a crap load of different audio manufacturers. Some fantastic some great. Mcintosh have a serious reputation in the hi end audio world for building great sounding and long lasting audio gear which I personally appreciate. I got my money worth. Regardless what negative feedback anyone has to say about mcintosh their name reputation and long term is priceless.  Well I am off to follow the yellow brick rd and asked the mighty wizard for a brain!!

—Ninety Minutes with McIntosh and Other Components—
McIntosh has an aura around the brand that screams, “look everybody, I’m a rich and arrogant asshole!” I liken McIntosh buyers to people who buy $300,000 Lamborghinis when they live in New Jersey - or any other place where they get a lot of snow. The sound of a McIntosh amplifier is okay. At just over $18,000 (Canadian dollars), an audio salesperson was trying to get me set up with a McIntosh amp/pre-amp and the CD player to match (price for CD player unknown).  I didn’t love or hate the look of the gear. At $18,000 on sale, they had better sound better than my Bryston amp/pre-amp. Unfortunately, they didn’t come close to the way my Bryston components drive my B & W 802s. More on that in a bit. 
I looked over at a much less expensive set-up. I told my friend/salesperson I wanted to compare the heavyweight Rotel amp/pre-amp and Arcam CD player they had set up already to the McIntosh components. I had him hook up the McIntosh first, and then onto the  Rotel/Arcam mix. He had the        B &W 802 D4 Reference floor standers handy. I asked him if we could audition both sets of components on the B & W speakers. It was a miserably rainy day with little foot traffic, so he obliged my request. I own the same B & W speakers, so I am familiar with their plus and minus nuances. At around $18,000 Canadian, I have found the B & Ws to be well worth the money. I scored a fantastic deal on them two years ago. A  special thanks to my friend who works at our city’s largest high-end audio dealer. 
My friend was certain the McIntosh gear was going to knock me off my feet, leaving me impressed with the great sound. All I can say is that I would put my Bryston amp/pre-amp and CD player up against the McIntosh products any time. The sound went as loud as you would ever want, and the lower end sounded fantastic. The midrange and high end was lacking. I know it wasn’t the speakers, as owning a pair, I know the sound really well.  Then my salesman friend hooked the B & W 802s up to the Rotel and Arcam set-up. At one quarter of the price, I can honestly say that this mix of components sounded excellent. The Rotel and Arcam components were all set up to use balanced cables. Both the Rotel and Arcam had decent DACs. If you are on a moderate budget, buy the Rotel amp/pre-amp for sure. I liked the sound of the Arcam CD player a lot. So, again, if  you are budget conscious, I would consider the CD player too. I wish I had written down all of the models I auditioned. I didn’t, but the Rotel amp was huge with it’s matching pre-amp. It had to weigh close to 50 kgs. All I know is that there have to be a lot of happy Rotel and Arcam owners out there. In all fairness, someone buying the Rotel or Arcam components probably don’t have a good pair of B & W floorstanders. My audio dealer sells a lot of Monitor Audio speakers. He says there is an excellent money spent to sound achieved ratio (his words, not mine). I’m not sure what model they were, but for around $4500, the Monitor Audio speakers would be on my list if I needed a second stereo. If I had a mid-range budget, I would strongly consider buying a pair. 
My overall conclusion to this  90 minute listening session is, components with the most well known names often don’t live up to their reputations. 

If only that was a joke...

Who let out the secret that us McIntosh owners only bought their stuff because of resale value and it’s design?! Crap!! Next thing you will find out that we actually don’t even turn the components on to listen to music. We just look at figuring out to buy more of their gear to keep the resale value up. Foiled again!!

Whats perplexing is how difficult it is to try a variety of amps, and then match em up to your speakers.

most buy on blind faith, i suspect.  I have.

industry needs to solve this problem.  Inherently limited options.  doubt many are able to preview many amps.

As for alternatives...I'm a Mc owner and I need more power - I have MC 302 SS.

I'm also a former artillery guy and I can tell you I like things loud :)

I listen to rock, jazz and blues and my thoughts have been what's the right upgrade path.

I have a budget too!  And then of course there's the synergy with the rest of the system.

So I've been considering - Moon by Simaudio.

In the end each one of us has biases and preferences and by listening we can determine if what sounds different is valued.  Notice I avoided using better.  I've heard different speakers change how an amp and music sound and depending on the type of music I can even appreciate if cost wasn't an object having more than 1 system. 

@ fuzztone

this year, you should have said... Yankees... no playoff

So many amps. So how many do AB testing?
Unsound’s above comments are amazing. Curious about your amp preferences.

but what about mac tubes vs their ss. Preferences? they do well with ss but say it sounds tubey. So get the damn tubes.  Tubes would seem better.  Preamps are better with tubes.

@roxy54, To each his own. I really do believe that for the most part we hear similarly, but often do listen differently, 
Enjoy!

Unsound,
You made some good points and no hard feelings. I have owned several Macs, MC300 for about 5 years, a MC2105 for about 45 years interestingly, a MC402 for a few short months. I also had a non autoformer Mac for a very short time that I didn't like at all. I just didn't really like the sound of either of those as much as my somewhat modified MC2105, so I really don't have blinders on about Mac gear.
That said, I also owned a wonderful ANK 300b Anniversary amp for 5 years, and I have to be honest and say that the MC2105 was not embarrassed in its company. Same for a Pass Labs 250.5 which sounded terrible in comparison to the MC2105 to my ears.
I also think that you may be right in thinking that part of the reason that they stay with the autoformer technology is that it is a strong part of their identity.
Thanks for your thoughts, John  

^Success often does breed contempt.  

To the extent there is any hate it is more like the way people "hate" Tom Cruise. Rolex. Tekton. Trump. Porsche. Some people simply do not know how to relate to inordinate success. Can't handle it. Resent it.

Tom Cruise is a fine actor. There are better, but he is pretty darn good. Rolex really is a fine watch. The fact there are better in no way detracts from the excellence of a Rolex. People just hate that Rolex and Cruise so dominate the market. Trump, well okay bad choice there are none better than Trump. And Porsche. But that only goes to prove the rule: they are hated for their excellence. Almost impossible to be truly exceptional at anything and not wind up with some small segment just can't handle exceptionalism.

I think we all know what I'm talking about.