Almost women hate home audio because almost home audio systems sound un-natural. Almost hi-fi audio sounds in the world hurt ears of non-audiophiles (women and men). It is painful to them that they can’t hear more that few minutes. Men have more tolerance with un-natural sounds than women.
I have been an a’phile for > 30 years and enjoyed those un-natural hi-fi sound like you guys. Now my audio system is natural sound and all other hi-fi sounds hurt my ears bad. My wife disliked my audio systems for decades but she loves my audio now.
You can hear my natural sound audio system at
T.H.E. Show / THE HOME ENTERTAINMENT SHOW LLC The Hilton Orange County/Costa Mesa,
3050 Bristol St., Costa Mesa, CA 92626
Dates: June 9th-10th-11th, 2023
My room is # 372.
Bring your girls to the show. They can hear below music.
** If the original music sounds un-natural to you, your ears are in un-natural hearing mode.
1111art, I totally identify with you. My daughter is the same age and her BF , technically fiance was over with her recently. My daughter grew up with all kinds of gear coming in and out of the house so she's used to it , but he was shocked when he sat in my listening chair . He's coming back solo soon so we can spin some vinyl. He has good taste in music so it will be a good time
I gave him a pair of Grado RS2e and a headphone amp last year. I hope to put together a modest system for his man town soon.
My lady loves music but she has hearing loss so my gear is kind of lost on her. I am often at her place because it is close to my work. She has a boom box that is always playing something. That's her Hi Fi rig. She has a diverse taste in music , she is all over the map. She now has hearing aids and it is definitely improving her quality of life.
The last time she was over my place we were playing some records and streaming her favorite tunes. She liked it. She doesn't hear it with the same fidelity I do but it was fun.
I was surprised and happy to find that when my 28 yr. old daughter and her boyfriend visited, they sat patiently and listened to a 70 minute 'best of CD' I'd burned. Songs that showed off my system.
They both had their eyes closed the whole time, feet-a-tappin.
Afterwards, the BF said (very excitedly). "OMG, that wasn't just music, that was an EXPERIENCE!"
Fist time they'd ever heard what music should sound like. Made me smile and think, there may be hope for the future.
Back in the days when there were bookstores you could go to the men's magazine section and compare it to the women's magazine section. Men and Women don't have remotely similar interests, generally speaking. Of course audio always has been and always will be very male. There could've been an exception in apparent interest when audio stuff was a mainstream status symbol but those days are long gone. It's niche now and the ladies aren't interested.
I think the main reason for women not being into high quality audio is an asset allocation issue, not to mention gender bias. In my youth young men my age had two things they spent their disposable income on, cars and stereo.
It was my experience women loved music and enjoyed listening, but did not prioritize gear. Women turned me onto Jethro Tull and Steve Miller in the early 70s.
When shopping for gear with my wife when we bought our first house together, she was good if I wanted the big Maggies (20.1), but I did not want to go that strong dollar wise. We both have loved our 3.6 Maggies for almost 20 years now.
One thing I have noticed is that for whatever reason, more men like to sit alone and listen to music and design critical listening situations that arecealy not designed for group listening.
Given the similarity to the car hobby (I am also into cars, have owned 4 Austin Healeys in my past, not to mention Mercedes) I just think it is asset allocation by gender that is cultural.
Women were never that interested in audio. Back in the day they had systems because that was the only way to hear music and radio beyond a tinny transistor radio. And entertainment was a choice between three TV stations, a few radio stations and records. The expansion of entertainment sources (cable, internet, digital video)) and portability (Walkman ...> MP3 player ...> cell phone) killed off what was left of women's interest in home systems beyond a bluetooth speaker. Men will follow this trend making audio "systems" even more of a niche. Everything will source from a phone or smart home device. Speakers will either be integrated or the preamp/amp will become a blackbox computer totally controlled by your phone or iPad, making audio electronics a commodity. This digital transformation has already happened to guitar amplifiers. All my guitar "amplifiers" are basically computers now. Audiophiles are slightly more stubborn than guitarists. Plus indisputable blind and null tests are easier to perform with guitar equipment, so it will take a little longer for audio to morph. Then look for an Audiogon thread titled "Why do almost all men today hate home audio?"
@tylermunns--There is so much I'm interested in; audio preservation and digital standards, film preservation and ephemera; I just finished helping out somebody at UCLA on the history of music for early TV; the law stuff gives me certain advantages only because I did a lot of historic due diligence on big music catalogs, early photography, ancient manuscripts, pulp magazines, film, etc. One area that fascinates is the taxonomies for AI-- aside from the legal issues of "ingestion."
The audio archivists are very much like audiophile historian/archeologists. I did a piece some years ago about visiting the Packard Campus in Culpeper, which is the intake facility of the Library of Congress. Those guys had dream jobs--we sat in with an engineer who was reconstructing the Les Paul overdubs made direct to disc (before Les had access to a tape machine). He'd cut a track on a homemade lathe, then play it back on a phonograph while playing an overdub on a fresh lacquer. This stuff was eventually released commercially as two songs, but the discs to make them filled 1/2 a library cart. The engineer was figuring out which disc came before another. Of course, they had all the cool toys, as well as a sort of museum of stuff from the beginning of recorded sound.
I guess this would complement what I did as a lawyer- but I stopped the actual practice of law, as such. (Still keep my license active in NY but what I would be doing is expert work or consulting, but not acting as a legal beagle as such). We'll see.....
@whartGotcha.
Thanks for the response.
Archival preservation and library science for “music stuff,” or strictly “law stuff,” or both?
The former sounds like a pretty cool profession to me.
In the 50's and I was a kid, a friend of the family had a mono setup with JBL speakers and McIntosh tubes. I was blown away by the sound. Then the stereophonic LP came along and our friend went to a stereo set up. I was more blown away. These two systems were so superior to anything else out there at the time high end audio really was something. There were several stores in my town with listening rooms of escalating quality and cost where one could really hear difference in sound.
Now 65 years later with today's low cost electronics and speaker manufacturing techniques one has to really listen for differences between a low and high cost system of the same sound pressure level capability, so many people are happy with Best Buy or Amazon.
I'd have to agree that, in almost all respects, this is a niche market. Few people care enough to truly devote to it. Let's just accept it and continue on our merry way.
’I have in my store 50/50 man and woman shopping vinyl.
Don’t know what you’re really talking about.
If it’s depletion of an interest in home audio and vinyl, it affects both equally.’
Lol, I’d like to know on what planet you are living my dear sir. In my many decades on the earthly plain, I rarely have come across females that like audio HiFi as a hobby. In fact many are openly hostile to it as it invades upon their idea of ‘house beautiful’. I also can understand why many consider their husbands to have gone barmy, what with the regulary insane amounts of money we justify and sink into our hobby. Many women consider this hobby a form of addiction (and there is often more than a grain of truth to that).
@tylermunns- I generally don't get into the substance of active cases here but I think the Led Zep case helped push back some of Blurred Lines. A friend's firm handled the Sheeran case. I'm occasionally pulled in to cases as an expert on U.S. law or music business practices. I do teach (at UT Law in Austin) but I'm also thinking of going back to school for archival preservation and library science--there's a preservation side and also a more analytical side (think: AI interfaces). I've been spending as much time on the history as on the advances if that makes any sense. Thanks for asking.
I apologize. I understand why my post re: impermanence was removed. Even Old Sid (i.e. The Buddha) said "Not all will be ready to learn this truth in their current Life; indeed many will not want to learn this truth in their current Life."
The content of my post must have been troubling for those of you for whom Old Sid’s observation applies. I’m sorry for having facilitated that troubling.
@whart Seeing that you’re a retired copyright lawyer who is really into music, I’m wondering if you have any opinions on these famous cases regarding copyright infringement in popular music.
I consider the “Blurred Lines” case from a few years back to be a horrible precedent.
Marvin’s song has a completely different chord progression, completely different melody, completely different structure, completely different lyrics. Somewhat similar percussion arrangement.
The songs share a cowbell.
Even the cowbell figures are different.
That a plaintiff can get a trial for “the plagiarism of a ‘groove,’ or a ‘feel’” is just as preposterous as it sounds.
The precedent set by the plaintiff actually winning lays fertile ground for injustice and destruction to the relationship between artistic expression and music commerce.
On the other hand I believe Artikel Sound System to have a home run with this same case presently.
Dua Lipa and her cadre of songwriters, for their song “Levitating,” took Artikel Sound System’s song, “Live Your Life.”
That is, the chorus of “Levitating” is the chord progression/vocal melody/rhyming scheme of “Live Your Life,” plus a very similar “groove,” even in the same key.
I was glad Ed Sheeran won his case the other day.
His “Thinking Out Loud” has “Let’s Get it On”’s chord progression, but it is so common a chord progression as to be owned by no one. The fact that the groove is then similar to “Let’s Get it On” doesn’t cut it.
Totally different vocal melody, lyrics, and structure.
Those are my thoughts.
Do you have any on the matter?
This is a little offbeat, but I actually started dating my wife as a result of an audio connection. We had met in Brooklyn Heights decades ago, when both of us lived there. After a couple of different nights out, she visited my apartment, walked in and said "oh Quads.' (I had a pair of the original ESLs running at the time). I said "how could you know that?" Turns out she worked part-time as a grad student as an assistant to a pretty famous NYC photographer who was a well-known audiophile. A guy who I only knew by name and reputation-Chuck Lamonica.
I asked her whether she could introduce me. She did and we got on famously. Chuck was one of those guys everybody loved- full of soul, forgot more than most ever knew about hi-fi. He and I would spend hours listening while Liz hung out with his wife, Elsa (who only recently passed away; Elsa was Morris Levy's receptionist at one point as a young woman). Anyway, a great couple who we both loved. Chuck died young of a heart-attack-in 1991. Elsa passed only last year, but Liz stayed in constant touch with the family.
So, in a sense, hi-fi was a bond that helped cement our relationship. Liz is pretty ambivalent about gear- she'll allow me the opportunity to explain stuff-- not just about the stereo systems, but the broader history of reproduced sound, the business and popular culture, something that I spend a fair amount of time on as a retired copyright lawyer who teaches and is interested in archival matters. She's happy to join in listening sessions, but really isn't a gear head. That's ok. One of us is enough. She's got plenty of interests beyond that--and occasionally has one of her friends over--to listen to the big system.
I hate generalizations, but it may be that women are more interested in the end result- the music-- than how we get there. She wants a small, press and play system for the kitchen/dining room. I asked her how she felt about 300b tubes and she looked at me like, "man you are such a dork."
Could it be today's popular music turns women off?
Back when I was in high school it was Beatles, Stones, etc. we all listened to the radio in our cars and had songs we all liked both sexes pretty much equally. Having said that I only knew guys like me visiting HiFi shops and interested in the electronics and speakers.
She told me at the party that she was looking for Don McLean’s American Pie in the 45’s rack.
I’m starting to think that the management of this site has become anti-democracy, anti-thinking, anti-sanity; in other words, anti-United States of America.
My days here may be numbered. Don’t talk about it; move on. Just another brick in the wall
Met my wife in 1985 in the Licorice Pizza record store in Santa Barbara, CA where I worked when I was 19 (I was the LP buyer!!!). She roller skated into the store and my heart went pitter-patter :). I’d never approached a girl/woman before...obviously I was a virgin...yet, I mustered the courage to approach her at the 45’s rack and ask if I could help her find something. Crickets. Stood there like a doofus for about a minute before walking off, dejected and forlorn. She roller skated out of the store and out of what I thought was the rest of my Life. Next day (Friday) I get an invitation at work to a party in Isla Vista, the campus housing community for UCSB. I go. Guess whose apartment it is...Roller Girl! Turns out that when she was in the store the day before, she was just being the wing-girl for her roommate who had a crush on one of my co-workers who she wanted to ogle in the store...oh, and she had been high on acid...which had made her mute to my overture in the store. The party was a front for her roommate to seek to initiate romance with my co-worker. That never worked out. Anyhoo, she comes up to me at the party and explains the aforementioned and then asks me if I want to meet Mr. Wizard. I say "sure", not knowing what that meant. Mr. Wizard was a bong. I ended up staying the night. We went to the People’s Park the next morning to hang out on a blanket drinking beer (she was 21!) and smoking doobies watching the annual People’s Park May Day Concert. Headliner was X...an awesome 80’s LA punk band. During Exene Cervenka’s awesome belting out of the chorus of Under the Big Black Sun, Roller Girl tells me to "close your eyes and stick out your tongue". I do. She doses me with liquid acid. It’s an awesome concert. I woke up the next day not a virgin. Same for Roller Girl. And we’ve been together faithfully ever since. And she’s always loved every version of our stereo, from the double stacked AR3a’s powered by 4 Dyna Mark IIIs to the near world-class system that we are so lucky to have today. Haven’t been many weekends when we don’t played vinyl. And let’s just say we look forward to May Day all year long!
Audio has always been a boys club. Men know women love audio as much as the next person. It's just the boys who get in the way of that appreciation. Then they fall all over themselves mansplaining it.
This thread got me thinking about how my whole family was pretty caught up in music. My mother and sister were both very involved in the stereo system - at least as much as me and my dad. They had their albums and they loved to play them loud, all the way through. The musical tastes were a bit different for each of us but we enjoyed each other's music. Skip forward to the present, I'm in my 50s, my sister just turned 60. When she comes over we still find time to sit down in front of the stereo and listen to music, sharing our latest finds. My mother passed away last summer. She was using a pair of Klipschorns I left at her house, and she too would sit down with me to listen to an album from time to time. I should say none of my family members ever got caught up in the hifi sound quality game like I did. They just wanted convenient, decent sounding, reasonably affordable systems. My mom appreciated the Klipschorns I left at her place because they're loud, and her hearing wasn't so good later in life.
I also have a younger sister - 14 years younger. I was gone in the Navy for much of the time she was growing up. But I learned more recently that she is very familiar with all of my mom and dad's albums, and all of my classical CDs I left at the house. She listened to all of those CDs all the way through multiple times with her friends.
It’s ALWAYS been that way in my experience. If women were really into good quality audio en-mass, you would find more audio shops and record shops as they would be great places to meet girls! 😂
What I find humorous is quite often there will be a comment along the lines of “yeah, my ex-wife hated hifi”, etc, etc. The consensus might be it was unlikely that it was the hifi setup she hated.
I'm not certain this isn't a Jeremy Clarkson type of comment, but if Video Killed the Radio star, then social media addiction killed the ability to be an individual.
My wife loves listening to music. We go to live shows and music festivals quite often. What she doesn't like to see is a a bunch of clutter and a stack of hi-fi equipment put on display like a Donald Judd sculpture. Although if I could get my hi-fi system to look like that, maaaaybe she'd be ok with it. I'm not a fan of the typical hi-fi room setup that most audiophile men prefer. You know the room...the monoblocs sitting on the dust covered floor, a $50 area rug, a "rack" of components and cables going every which way to the reference towers that, I hate to say, all look terrible the more expensive they get. As an architect, that type of room has no visual appeal to me. Almost as bad as having a ton of sports memorabilia hanging on the wall.
Needless to say, my wife and I have similar tastes in music. We enjoy listening, as background music: jazz, r&b, country, acoustical/folk, rock, pop, gospel. What she isn't big into is electronic, industrial, heavier classic rock, avant garde, and classical. She likes old school hip hop and Christian music. I'm not a fan.
I have plenty of guy friends who aren't into hi-fi but enjoy listening to music. They predominately stream because it's convenient and you can listen to everything. A few have vinyl but they aren't actively collecting.
I have always had a dedicated hi-fi system of some level since I was a young kid. My parents owned a local record store in the early 80s so listening and collecting music was something I grew up with. I have select records I inherited when my dad passed.
If your wife/GF/significant other isn't into listening to one album in a sitting, so what. A lot has changed culturally when people used to do that 60 years ago.
Our current house has powered speakers with wi-fi for multi-room listening and I get a corner of the living room for my hi-fi set-up and I rotate out vinyl and cds that I play while the rest stays discreetly hidden away in built-in cabinets. Honestly I prefer that because no-one messes with my equipment, records, and cds. Not even the kids bother to get curious because they know not to touch. But they enjoy listening to music and we have dance parties sometimes.
My goal with hi-fi isn't to convince others to join the cult. It's to better my personal listening experience and make general music listening for everyone else enjoyable and painless.
It’s not that sharing one single personal anecdote wherein a female companion was uninterested or even repelled by fancy audio stuff is sexist, it’s that thinking your solitary personal anecdote could come anywhere close to justifying this silly overgeneralization that is sexist.
I wish I had a snarky answer for you. I have had more than one piece of equipment blown or broken by drunk dates or well meaning daughters to really know what to say.
Chat GPT cracked, the 2023 way to ask the same question as this thread title I guess.
> why are there more men in technology business as worker or customer?
There are several factors that contribute to the higher representation of men in the technology industry, both as workers and customers. One reason is historical and cultural biases that have traditionally discouraged girls and women from pursuing careers in STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) fields. Another factor is societal expectations and gender roles that may lead men to be more interested in technology and gadgets.
Additionally, there may be differences in cognitive and personality traits between men and women that can influence their preferences for certain types of work or hobbies. For example, studies have suggested that men tend to be more interested in systems and abstract thinking, while women tend to be more interested in social interaction and practical applications.
It’s important to note that these differences are not absolute and can vary greatly between individuals. It’s also important to actively work towards creating a more inclusive and diverse tech industry to ensure that everyone has equal opportunities to participate and succeed
> what are the studies that have suggested that men tend to be more interested in systems and abstract thinking, while women tend to be more interested in social interaction and practical applications?
It is important to note that there is significant debate and controversy around the idea that there are inherent gender differences in interests and abilities. However, there have been some studies that have suggested that there are differences in the interests of men and women, including in relation to technology and abstract thinking.
For example, one study conducted by Simon Baron-Cohen, a professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Cambridge, found that on average, men tend to score higher on tests of systemizing (understanding and analyzing systems) while women tend to score higher on tests of empathizing (understanding and responding to the emotions of others). This has been cited as evidence that men may be more interested in technology and systems, while women may be more interested in social interaction.
However, it is important to note that these findings are not universally accepted, and many argue that gender differences in interests and abilities are largely the result of socialization and cultural factors, rather than biological differences.
> what are the facts and numbers that shows that there are more men in technology business as workers or customers?
According to data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, men make up a larger percentage of workers in computer and mathematical occupations. In 2020, men accounted for 73.2% of computer and information systems managers, 76.3% of computer network architects, and 77.7% of software developers. In addition, a 2019 study by the National Center for Women & Information Technology found that women held only 26% of professional computing occupations in the U.S.
As for customers, a 2017 survey by the Consumer Technology Association found that men were more likely than women to own a variety of tech devices, including smartphones, laptops, and virtual reality headsets. Men also reported spending more money on tech products overall. However, the gap has been narrowing in recent years, as more women enter the technology workforce and become tech consumers.
> why obsession for equipment from audiophile can generate tension in a family or couple?
The obsession for audio equipment from audiophiles can generate tension in a family or couple for several reasons. Firstly, audiophiles may spend a significant amount of money on their equipment, which can cause financial strain or disagreements with their partner.
Secondly, their intense focus on audio quality and technical specifications may lead to them spending a lot of time and attention on their equipment, neglecting other aspects of their relationship or responsibilities. This can result in feelings of neglect or resentment from their partner.
Additionally, audiophiles may prioritize their hobby over spending time with their partner or participating in shared activities, which can lead to feelings of isolation or frustration.
Finally, their obsession with audio quality may lead to disagreements or arguments over the perceived quality of music or sound, causing further tension in the relationship.
To don_c55. What a bizarrely, and disappointingly, misogynistic, question. It's written in a form that pre-supposes an assumption that is certainly inaccurate in every way. Our friends/visitors range from middle class to noticeably beyond and span many decades in age. I find that females are just as likely, or not, as males to stop and notice the music coming out of our stereo. When I get into a car owned and driven by a woman I"m just as likely to hear music on the radio when the car is started. Have you ever been to a music festival or show? A lot of female presence. Have you ever been to the symphony? A lot of female presence. The destructive nature of your question is evident in many of the responses in which people innocently try to reasonably explain what is in fact a falsehood. They end up leaving the conversation with the notion embedded in their mind that 99% of women might not seriously enjoy music to any depth beyond casual or background listening. Doing that to an entire gender is beyond rude, it is truly abusive. Yours is the attitude and talk that keeps women out of forums like this. Maybe you shouldn't be asking why 99% of women don't seriously listen to music, maybe you should be asking why 99% of women don't listen to you at all
@hilde45Got it. You're woker than the rest of us. and even if we have had experience with women who didn't appreciate music, we can't discuss that, wouldn't we woke enough. thanks for the guidance.
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