Well, I guess if you are too cheap to buy an Air Force Zero either would do… but the Kosmos Sparta is way cooler looking. I really double you would disappointed with either.

Hi all,

currently there are 2 tt on my short list (in case I'll change my Gyrodeck): Kosmos Sparta and Techdas airforce 3. Why? I want a discontinuity. This is my final choice, I don't think there will be more space for a further improvement. 

Have you ever experienced with one of those?

The Michell turntables can be improved by installing a kit from Gert Pedersen,

https://www.pedersensgyro.dk/

I installed Gert's kit for the Orbe SE. Complete change of the TT for the better.  Otherwise I think the Kuzma Stabi R is interesting.

The SMEs are fine turntables but they are too expensive in this country for what they are when you have the Basis available.

For similar money as the AF V the Basis Inspiration with Vacuum is a much better turntable and it is extremely good looking. The Kuzma Stabi M is IMHO the best Kuzma and you can put any arm on it. The Schroder LT comes to mind. It is massive but not the fanciest looking table. The Avid Acutus was mentioned and it is a fine turntable. The Stabi M has the advantage of having a really nice dust cover. It has a good reflex clamping system. I prefer vacuum has it is better at flattening the record. With a good vacuum table the pitch consistency is just wonderful. You really get the feeling you are listening to a digital file but it sounds like a record.

If I understand correctly, you're looking for something that outperforms the Michell and will "hold you over" til you get a Tech Das. 

Such problems!

First, I love the Gyro w/SME V. But it seems that you're determined to try something else. Okay. As you've seen in this thread, there are very many options and most of them excellent!

Of the many rigs I've heard, I can recommend SME and Brinkmann. The choice between the two may come down to appearance. I believe that a used 'table from a reputable dealer is a safe bet.

What do I own? An old VPI! I previously had an SME, but...finances change, and not always for the better. 

Best of luck!

@renatocomes  I also had a Michell Gyrodec with SME V which I thoroughly enjoyed until the upgrade itch started. I then moved on to an Avid Acutus and installed the SME V arm on that. I must say that was a significant improvement all round and I happily used that system for a few years. 

However, I then moved on to a TechDas Airforce V and again moved my SME V arm. This combination is absolutely thrilling in my system and is the way I'd go in your situation. The sound is dynamic and totally involving whilst also somehow managing to reduce surface noise from records. Everyone who has heard this turntable in my system has enjoyed it. 

The looks are love/hate. Personally I love it and the smaller footprint has been a bonus with shelf space. If you can afford a Techdas Airforce V Premium then I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Bergmann, or maybe a Holbo Mk2, I have the original Holbo, and it is fantastic. Plays well above its price point, but of course doesn’t play into the snob appeal, so probably gets overlooked in the grand scheme of things. 

design is very important to me also.

the airforce is an ugly beast IMO.

first, I would go for an improved cartridge on your existing beautiful TT

any cartridge you buy can be used on any future table you buy.

your phono pre is extremely versatile, ready for any MC you might try. manufacturer will help you make the correct settings.

For my 1st MC Cartridge I chose AT33PTG/II.

Very wide separation, and very tight channel balance gives excellent imaging. I just bought another. I like it so much, I guessed my stylus should be worn, I sent it to AT, they agreed, just ready for discard. AT has a program, clean return for $40., or they sold me a new one for $262, less than half price.

I suspect you will fall in love with your existing TT again right away.

I spent a ton of time thinking about this last year. I emailed Mike Fremer and Michael Trei and got a lot of opinions. In the end, I was down to the Kuzma Stabi R with a 4pt arm or a Brinkmann Bardo. I ultimately found a demo model Bardo with the 10.5 arm and an ortofon Cadenza black that was set up by Mike Trei. The deal was too good to pass up. This table has changed my listening experience. The I didn't realize turntables could leoduce this kind of frequency response and the dynamics are stellar. If the price range you're looking at you could step up to a Taurus or even a Spyder in The Brinkmann line. I don't have the Kuzma but feel it would have been an equally good but different choice. As others have said, I'd avoid rhe VPI. They're super cool looking but ultimately don't perform to the level of some of the others mentioned on this thread. 

I like both my music hall mmf-7.3 and my Avid ingenium, all the turntable I'll ever need. If a turntable keeps proper speed, is well isolated, and has a decent tonearm, I cannot see spending any more than my two aforementioned tables. Both are well executed designs. I spend most my money on records nowadays. 

The Gyrodeck is a nice turntable but can certainly be improved upon.

As you value design/looks, the Oracle Delphi Mk VI is worthy of consideration.

The Clearaudio turntables also look and sound great.

A final suggestion is Vertere. I regret I haven't heard them but I'm very familiar with Roksan's and the Vertere's take the same design principles and improve on them.

Are regards the secondhand question, I would have no problem buying a secondhand deck from a reputable dealer. SME's in particular are built like tanks and will last for ever unless deliberately abused.

Of course your ears and eyes must judge what's right for you.

@renatocomes, I have the same set up but did the Gert Petersen mod. As good as the MK IV is with the V arm, the mod addressed the bass and increased dynamics amongst other attributes. If you are DYIer, a short week of Sundays will bring the table, arm into your future. 

I bought a VPI TNT 3.5 turntable with 10" JMW Memorial tonearm in August 2001.  It has been in constant use for over 20 years.

Although I had to replace the motor several years ago;  VPI promptly supplied me with a new motor at reasonable cost.  I had to install the motor in the original housing, which was not too difficult.

The unit still works very well.  The sound seems to be independent of the turntable/tonearm while significant differences have been noticable between several different moving-iron and moving-coil cartridges.

Of course, I like to think my home designed/constructed phono preamp plays some role in that performance.  The rest of the system includes a high quality preamp/processor and power amplifiers that can easily make audible any deficits in vinyl reproduction.

Were I to replace the TNT/tonearm at some point, I would lean toward another VPI combo based upon my experience.

@bobbydd …

“ Consider a TW Acustic Raven,  a Reed arm , With a top flight cartridge “

Great recommendations , I would recommend a Top Wing Suzaku – Red Sparrow  

Definitely Kuzma Stabi, either S or R.

Consider a TW Acustic Raven.  Add a Wheaton Triplanar or a Reed arm.  With a top flight cartridge, the combination will sound and look beautiful.  And, it won't need frequent fussing and adjustments.

Keep your current TT as a back up BTW, not worth selling on the cheap.

Just my 2 cents ....

@jafox , oh you think? You would be surprised how poorly some people take care of their equipment. Then there is the question of why they are getting rid of the unit. Most can’t pack the turntable appropriately for shipping as the packing can be frightfully complicated. You can bounce around an amplifier without damage but not a turntable. Only if you know the seller, can pick up the table and hear it in action should you consider a used turntable.

lordy i want an ELP in the worst way. if one has that kind of money to spend [not much more than some of the tables mentioned elsewhere in this thread] that is the table i'd get along with the analog i/o declicker they market with it as well as a SOTA record cleaning machine.

Yeah. None of my business regarding your financial status, but if an everyman like me had a Michell Gyrodec with SME V, I would simply be looking to maximize the performance from that setup. Cartridges, tweaks, etc.

Thales TTT slim 2 + easy tonearm

and avid (acutus)!

and technics dd 20K

soulines:merrill williams and records.

Do yourself a favor and listen to any VPI, then to any, in the same price range, TechDas, Acoustic Signature, SME, Bergmann, Feickert, Clearaudio, or … it will be very easy to get a quick answer.

VPI is not remotely close to any of these brands.

I owned VPI’s top table, and it was a sad experience. It looks great but that is where things fall apart.

VPI’s designer, does not even “believe” in anti-skating. Since when simple vectors and physics are not facts that are open to beliefs?

Lots of good suggestions here.  I own the Air Force V Premium and can say that the Air Force turntables are spectacular. The vacuum suction improves the sound significantly and the capability to install four arms is a plus. Get yourself a top-notch arm (Kuzma, Glanz, etc) and you will be set.

Today my turntable is a Michell Gyrodec with SME V. I'm in love with its design: a lot of competitors got ideas from it and after years and years is still a star to follow.

Then why not keep it?  Have you contacted Michell as to any updates that may be available since your Gyrodec was built?  Maybe move up to the Orbe?  Putting your TT on an isolation platform could be a good first start.  And this could be used with any subsequent setup.

What exactly is lacking in your system that you are convinced will be resolved with a new TT?  Is it just about wanting a change?   Do you want a more extended low end, greater detail, etc.?  Everyone here will suggest for you to buy this, buy that, try this, try that, but how will you know if any of these suggestions from people who own $5k TT setups or those who own $50k setups, will address the changes and improvements you seek?  Again, what musicality/performance is currently missing in your analog setup?  You can have a target setup in mind, but pursue it one updated link at a time.

The SME V has been a well-respected tonearm for decades, but what about keeping the TT and updating the arm ..... significantly? .... or even start with another cartridge as the SME V can easily run with the highly rated models.

The Michell is a TT that could run with any of today's highly touted tonearms.  I would run with a $10k tonearm on the Gyrodec any day over any $10k TT and a $2k tonearm.  I don't care what all the Linn propaganda told us decades ago!

These forums have a wealth of information on the pros/cons, sonic differences (subjective of course) on many tonearms such as the Triplanar, Kuzma 4Pt, Schroeder, Durand, etc.  There is far more valuable information here than the differences discussed here on TT's, which typically is just another, "the best I ever heard".  Ugh.

If you can find a tonearm that really gets your attention, you could easily send the armboard from the Gyrodec to the tonearm dealer to machine a new armband for you of the correct thickness.  If you find a great deal from a private party, there are a couple of TT specialist dealers that would likely make you such an armboard at a fair price.  I know of one such dealer that did this for me.  And I talked with another some years back as I was about to buy a TT from them.  They also do this.  I can share them offline if you contact me.

I am very weary about second hand turntables. They are too easy to damage.

I have no idea what this means.  Most audiophiles take better care of their audio gear than they do of their own car.  Look at all the references of "smoke free", no pets, no children, etc., environments.  Many of these guys go through TT, tonearm and cartridge changes more frequently than I go through a McDonald's drive-through for a chocolate shake!  There are great deals on used in excellent condition products out there.  Talking to the owner helps a lot for peace of mind.

Wishing you success here.

John

Have you looked at the Transrotor turntable?

Agree with @czarivey VPI not an upgrade. Look into a Kuzma Stabi R

i own three turntables which would be a step up from the place you are at. or maybe two to five steps up. you can view them on my system page. the thread drive, air bearing, linear tracking CS Port LFT1, Saskia model two idler with a Durand Tosca tone arm, and the Wave Kinetics direct drive NVS with a Tosca and Durand Telos tone arms.

as far as design, all three are distinctive in their own ways. happy to answer any questions you might have. your Soulution gear shows you are thinking ’higher’.

good luck; you are in a fun spot about to get a kick ass turntable!!!!

Acoustic Signature is worth looking at.

I don't think VPI is big upgrade in terms of performance. Michell Gyrodek with SME V is hard to beat.

I'd choose Kuzma Stabi instead.

As Master Hump professed:

Doowutchyalike

A close friend just sold his top of the line Kronos, which I also like in principle, for the latest Monaco Grand Prix, and he’s very happy with the change. FWIW.

I am a Garrard 301 fan boy. Mine is the Woodsong Audio rebuilt.

But If I were to get another TT it would be the Kronos. The counter rotating flywheel is said to be the greatest innovation in TT design in decades.

I am also a fan and user of a TriPlanar arm.

Brinkmann Bardo or upper Sota tt.

@renatocomes , I am very weary about second hand turntables. They are too easy to damage. Forget the VPI Avenger, it is all show no go. For that kind of money I would look at the Basis Inspiration with Vacuum. It would go beautifully with your Soulution equipment.  If your wanted to spend less money but get similar performance then the Sota Cosmos is the one to get. You might however think it is too plain.