As we upgrade our audio systems, things (hopefully) keep sounding better and better. I have found that after a certain point, the system completely disappears. It’s no longer a pair of speakers, amps, preamps, sources, etc. Music is created out of thin air floating between and behind the speakers with little to no colorations in the sound. The regular audio verbiage can be thrown out the window because all you hear is the recording. If something is bright or harsh or bass heavy, it’s the recording not your system. I noticed this when I modified my source and preamp to accept better power supplies. Using a combination of linear power supplies and large SLA batteries took my system to a new level where the equipment just disappears. Of course, this wasn’t the only thing that helped. Up to that point, every component has been experimented on to achieve a high degree of synergy. Interconnects, power cables, speaker cables, etc. all play a role too. Everything matters.
My question to you all is when did this happen in your system? Did it develop slowly over time or was there a definite change that occurred with a certain upgrade?
I thought my system was there ... and then I wired the Perfect Path Technologies "The Gate" to a breaker in the circuit breaker box. That, and other PPT products like TC and the Omega "Plus" Mats have completed the job. The system is uncanny. Even shocking at times.
There was a definite change.... with speakers, speaker cables, Cones, IC, PC, HFT, ECT, TC, O-Mats and E-cards, and especially FC. Oh and fo.Q. Got a few more to do today, thanks for reminding me. Its been years since my speakers disappeared. Its been months since my room disappeared. Now its more holodeck than listening room. Last night we were in London, the Tchaikovsky was to die for.
Its been years since my speakers disappeared. Its been months since my room disappeared. Now its more holodeck than listening room. Last night we were in London, the Tchaikovsky was to die for.
I like this description. Good music really can teleport you.
I am still getting there. Recently by making and adding room treatments the improvement has not been subtle. Thank you for your post because power conditioning is next up on my list and being tight on budget is making this a challenge.
mkgus, I think that this is an excellent subject for a thread. My own system is far from what would be considered state of the art, but after paying attention to the rack, additional vibration control/draining and especially speaker stands, I normally have the feeling that my speakers are just sitting there doing nothing. I pay very little attention to them because as you said, the music just seems to float in the air, free of the speakers.
The sound became totally detached from the speakers when I first put the Bel Canto ref1000m Class D amps in the system. Not nearly to that extent with prior SS amps.
It still happens only rarely. Yeah, I don't have the power or componentry to virtually put me in an actual concert hall, large club or sports venue like the Inglewood Forum, but I can achieve a convincing aura of real life when I put on a small jazz, ethnic or classical chamber ensemble.
My very first audiophile system that I ever had disappeared. 1979 Kenwood L07C Gas Grandson of Ampzilla Kenwood KD500 table Audio Technica AT 1010 tonearm Goldring cart Technics SB-7070 Speakers (check these out online)
^^^ Yes, it is truly amazing when the speakers not only disappear, but when your room morphs into the recording venue.
Frank
Put more on the internal speaker wires, and wrapped them in Mats. Have to be careful, with so much covered not to create a short. Lotta work getting in there but Holy moley!
When I switched to my current Rethm Saadhana speakers. I thought I already had it for years but these speakers took it to another level completely. Now, I have listerners who have never heard any audio systems in their life, just look stunned and shock at the image in the middle, completely outside and free of the 2 speaker cabinets. They're always complimenting about how the music is beautiful, realistic, with real presence plus a believable soundstage and image. Before, my system appealed to audiophiles but first time listeners might be impressed but not quite enthralled. Now they just sit and want me to play their favourite tune after tune.
Not surprised that this happened when you upgraded power supplies. But simply adding an AC filter choke also will help in that area. Better capacitors and resistors will also help a system disappear. Much cheaper than cables, and all the other tweaks, etc.
It happened when I added an Audio Research LS10 preamp to my system. The result was an immediate effect of shock and awe. It has only gotten better over the years as I've moved up the chain of Audio Research preamps.
Interesting discussion. I heard my speakers totally disappear at the dealers, whom I visited many times before committing to the $$. I could not afford to bring the whole system home, but I got the speakers and an amazing pre/amp combo. Sometimes in the last 1.5 years since I brought the system home the speakers would disappear. I've been working at speaker positioning, power cables, sorting the room, isolation, cable lifters, etc.
Recently got an EtherREGEN and can say that now the speakers disappear on any good material. You can just stand in the stage. It is truly amazing how much the ER brought to the game, or really, removed. It has isolated all the grunge that was riding in on my newly installed 300mbs fiber line that was just installed in the neighborhood in the last six months. The ER is the best upgrade yet, and less than $700 delivered. So if you stream, check it out. I am now looking at purchasing an upgraded JS-2 linear power supply for the ER. Power is very important, like all things in audio.
When I got my Klipsch Belles. The soundstage is amazing and huge. Added both width and depth, and the singers seem to come from my fireplace. When I added an old Onkyo Integra M-504 amp, it got even better. They still amaze me every time I listen to them.
Testpilot, LMAO....."When I got divorced". That is the most apprapros response that could have been posted. I showed my wife and we can't stop laughing 😂 Not at your expense mind you.
Not easy to hide my Vandies in my room, but achieved a great disappearing act with room treatments a couple months ago.. Changed everything....then got my new preamp today, and its getting harder and harder to find them....depending on the quality of the recording of course.
Last week, actually. I was sitting in my chair flipping through an audio magazine while the music was playing. Then the vocal came on and I literally jumped and looked up because it was as if the singer was standing 5 feet from me. It was quite surreal.
My system just reappeared. But hopefully I can figure this room out. You know, I have a feeling it’s 7/10 the room you’re in. This new house with my 2nd wife is a wonderful home but the place I had left behind was the best acoustical environment I’d ever known.
I picked it up for a song from the estate of a couple who tragically passed away in an automobile accident. It had been their home since 1957. I became the 2nd owner and it was a complete time capsule. They were a German couple and had kept the place in perfect condition. It was mid century modern dream. And it had many dark secrets that I would discover later.
Since I was living alone after my recent divorce, I converted the dining room to my dedicated listen room. It had the very early acoustical ceilings. The ceiling texture was made from a sprayed on concrete mixture that contained no asbestos. I believe this was a large part of the room’s sonic character. This room had a rock wall on one side and solid wood paneling on the other. At the time my system sounded fine and I was happy. Then my wife, my new girlfriend at the time, had me move the LP rack nearer to the system just off the left speaker for convenience sake...unknowingly right at the first reflection point. When I turned the system on for a listen, everything snapped into focus. You just don’t know you’ve been listening to smeared music until something like this happens. How long had I been listening to this system for me to finally hear how powerful room set up was!
This set the ball rolling to find out if I had finally fixed things or if I simply stepped in a spot that was just short of many more steps.
A year later, I had gotten as close as I may ever get: the speakers were now on the opposite side of the 28’ long room. The speakers were 36” from the back wall and 42” in from the side walls...alone on a heavy Persian rug with nothing between them. The equipment rack was along the side wall. I had lost some mid bass...but had gained some immense sub-bass. What a strange and welcome trade off. I had no need for subwoofers. My Salk Songtowers had such deep bass extension I had never known before. The acoustic picture was wall-to-wall and floor to 3 feet above the ceiling and the sound stage was as deep as 8’ behind the rear wall and as close as inches from me. I removed all things from the wall that were reflective and replaced them with art that was textural and soft. I have listened to some nice headphones and some great demo rooms...this room simply walked away from those.
Then I moved.
I know my current home will get better. But rooms are their own entities. I will not expect this room to come close but I will try. My new room has a much better tube amp and two dedicated outlets...but is a country mile behind. It’s the room.
I agree with @david_ten Regarding his first point, when I got my now classic KEF 105's which enabled me to optimize the positions of the subwoofer and the mid-range & tweeter enclusures independently, I achieved incredible imaging and natural sound.
The day my stereo finally disappeared? Oh I remember it just like yesterday. It was the morning of July 5th, 1978. Very late the night before, I’d steered Lurch, my cancer-pocked yellow Impala with the monkey brown potato-chip vinyl top to a crunching stop outside my crappy rental in Montrose; straight ahead you could see the long row of shotgun shacks start right where Houston’s fourth ward began, on the next block. Ok, it was kind of a wild night partying with my new girlfriend Faith, slightly my senior, at her fancy condo in the nicer Memorial neighborhood, but it was time to get home. I do remember tossing the keys onto the dining room table, as I made my way to flop face down on the bed, lights out.
Morning: "tunes" was my first thought; I got upright and stumbled toward the stereo, squinting just enough not to trip, and reached to flip the switch on that receiver. Just stood there, wagging my index finger in the air, up and down, not finding it. I had to open my eyes, even if it hurt. Damn, where was my stereo? Gone it was, along with the Cerwin Vega garage sale speakers and the Dual 1219 turntable and even the Allman Brothers At Fillmore East, which I’d left on it. Linda the neighbor showed up, and gave me the deadpan look. "Well you didn’t even lock the door. I just walked right in." Yeah, I could see that now. "That’s a shame, Chuck. Let’s go get some eggs, you’ll feel better." "Okay, I’ll drive".
Dressed now, but where are those keys. I know I threw them right about here! Well, maybe I left them in the car. Halfway down the front walk - "Hey, he took the car too!" She, laughing: "I guess he had to have something to haul away your stereo! You didn’t even wake up for this?" It seems we were in agreement, it must have been a guy who did this. We took her car.
Weeks later, an official sounding voice on the phone: "Mr. Lisser? I think we have your car - a 1970 yellow Chevy Impala?" "All right, where?" "You’ll need to tow it, the front tires are blown." Sure enough, at a city yard off the North Freeway, there was my poor, violated Lurch. The office man was talkative. "Oh, that guy, whoever he was, he took your car on a nice ride! Knocked over a Seven Eleven, then a Big Bear market, had a whole lot of city cops and DPS cars chase him up the North Freeway, dogs and all. Well he jumped the ditch and landed in a field. He got out and ran into the woods. That’s where they lost him."
So it was a guy. I couldn’t help noticing the round smashed part where my stereo thief’s head had connected with the windshield. Wisps of hair were still clinging to the cracked glass. The back seat was empty. "Did you find my stereo?" The office man looked puzzled. "Nope." I got behind the wheel, feeling kind of dirty. I’d have to fix the tires and get a new windshield. At least the engine turned over. But my stereo had, without a doubt, disappeared!
I had a similar experience in college when some bikers broke into my apartment and stole a couple grand worth of equipment; this was in 1973, so in today’s money, it would be nearly $12K!
My system does the disappearing act more often since I've replaced the input tubes in my pre with nos Mullards.The room treatments along with getting the bass dialed in was the biggest step forward in being able to hear that illusion.
I always felt like it dissapeared a long time ago with tubes and Quad ESLs. However, it truly disappeared when I changed my 12" Jelco 750 tonearm for the newer 850. New turntable bearing and bulk foil resistors in the phono amp finished the job.
Thorens TD318, Stanton 881s VanAlstine Super PAS 3 with GE Milspec tubes Heathkit W4m monoblocks (serviced not restored) NEAR 10M speakers
Miles Davis 4 and More / My Funny Valentine Ella Fitzgerald- various Verve LPs- all mono.
With the lights out the sonic image was holographic. I was not aware of the confines of the speaker boxes, or the spatial limits of the room in which I sat.
I felt I was in the audience back in 1964 experiencing Miles in person.
Ella was in the room, front and center. Sure it was mono, but I heard depth and air. The back edge of the band seemed to recede into the horizon.
Late 1997.
In the present, I can tell when my system is dialed in by how much I don't hear the physical placement of my speakers. I can close my eyes and be enveloped in sound that exists free of the dimensions of my speakers. Speaker quality and placement is key (of course) but quality of system components also affects the ability to disappear.
The first time I clearly heard "height" as a distinct component of a central image was after changing to an ARC SP10-MK2. I could follow the path of a trumpet horn as the musician moved around. I could hear the relative position of a trumpet bell and then hear the different position of the bell of a saxophone during solos.
It first happened when I went from my (Shure V-15) Crown IC150, and Phase Linear 400 driven stacked Advents to Audire electronics, (Supex 900 Mark IV cartridge), driven B&W's, followed by gradual enhancements over the decades with upgrades of the same brands (Or designer). Another interesting change was my 25 years with electrostsatics, while never selling my old B&W's, then replacing both with newer B&W's. Old B&W's now on TV. 'Stats gone!
Slowly over the past couple of weeks, through on-line sale(s). With no employment for the last month and no light at the end of the tunnel due to CV-19, I needed the cash to pay the bills! UGH
high-amp - sorry man and hope this schtuff get us back to normal(?) soon and you can re-build .
I dodged losing my first system due to divorce in '91. She brought in one of my dealers to appraise the system and I ended up giving her the house and a car. Got rid of her , house, and a car I detested all at the same time. Deal ? Hell yes...
To the questions at hand from the OP, My system disappeared when I bought my dream house, my bachelor palace in 2005 and was able to set up my best music room ever. It has further deepened in absence with recent equipment, iC & speaker tweaks .
I find myself fading out right along with it more regularly with the current shut-in situation.
Stay Home - Stay Healthy - Stay Connected ....and Happy Listening my friends !
I've really only heard the disappearing effect to a highly convincing level by using a divider plate to eliminate stereo cross talk, sitting fairly close to the speakers and far from the walls, and then some EQ to fix the response issues caused by the divider plate, and then a recording that has some coherent ambient information in it, which usually means NOT a studio mix of any kind. It didn't require high end equipment. Just a highly inconvenient listening setup. Getting the EQ right was extremely important to creating the illusion for me.I also used absorption above and to the sides of the speakers to minimize wall reflections. Really a PITA, but I've never heard anything more convincing from megabuck systems. Crosstalk is the great spoiler in my mind, bringing great systems down a long, long way and making them sound essentially similarly wrong to much, much less expensive systems in terms of imaging. At least that's how my ears react. So I don't pay as much attention to imaging depth and pay attention mostly to clarity and good tonality, low distortion, smooth dispersion and response. I expect a speaker system to reveal itself sonically like a good work of art does visually, with it's frame clearly visible, but also give me a very good insight into the musical performance, which is plenty challenging but at least it's possible without getting into a very constrained listening position.
My system disappeared about two decades ago. The walls, floor, ceiling went away and I had a sound stage with instrumental and performer appearances on a giant stage that depending on recording was somewhere in the first 10 rows or so. After that we are just playing with tonality tweaks.... I’ll probably never have the definition to "see" saliva roll off tonsils but I have it from the lips and tongue on a few of the higher resolution recordings. 25 year system build including full room treatment.
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