I once owned an Esoteric X-05 and couldn't wait to get rid of it. A beautiful machine and I wanted to love it, but after 6 months it still sounded dry and harmonically incomplete. I sold it locally and I insisted the buyer listen before buying, but he bought it anyway and sold it shortly after.
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Ooops...I forgot about this. When I was very young (and poor and not very smart) I bought my first "good" turntable. A Garrard Zero 100. I think I was trying to be different from my friends who had Dual 1229s. What a total piece of trash. The motor (I assume) went bad almost immediately. Not to mention the arm (a nice idea, poorly executed).
Oddly enough, I have, in a bedroom system, it's distant cousin. A GT55, with a much refined arm. It runs fine (I had it cleaned and lubed) and actually sounds quite good, at least in that system.
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I went against my instincts once and bought "audiophile" speaker cables. Complete waste of money. I preach that any chance I get.
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I’ve had a couple of pieces by Schiit over the last couple of years: Thin, dry, clunky and sound cheap. Not super expensive, but more expensive that they’re worth. Fortunately, they were easy to sell.
Magnepan: Inefficient, sorely lacking in the low-end, require huge power, excel at simple, acoustic type music, and that’s pretty much it. Relatively expensive and one-dimensional. Disappointing.
Cambridge Audio: This brand reminds me of late 1980’s Jaguar cars. Pretty on the outside with all the real-world reliability of a junkie. Love me some Jaguars, not so much Cambridge Audio.
What I’ve learned:
What’s right for somebody else, isn’t necessarily right for me.
Reviews are, at the very least......let’s just say......"slanted". Trust your ears. The rest is irrelevant.
There’s no such thing as a "giant killer".
There’s no replacement for displacement.
I should add that I’m not trying to bash on any company, or get even, or anything like that. JM2CW.
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Magnepan .7 speakers. I just never enjoyed how they sounded. Sold them to a friend who loved how they reproduced music. He still has them years later.
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Fortunately this is the one thread where getting something wrong is allowed. We had it created special for this purpose. All other threads require absolute fidelity to the truth. You will be banished for life to ASR for even the slightest infraction. So I would stick to this thread a while, just to be safe.
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I told an untruth in this thread, my apologies.
I complained about the wrong manufacturer. Careless on my part.
The brand I had reliability issues with was Arcam. (both lasers) I was not the original owner of either. I called Arcam and a lady basically said I should not buy used gear. So I stopped buying used Arcam gear like the lady said.
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Ok, in 45 years, there have been a few dogs. Even so the one that I will never forget were the JohnZer speakers that I bought when I was in high school. They took every last penny of my very hard earned $380 and left town after the purchase. The upside is this>>> I was so pissed that I built my own speakers from plans bought from SpeakerLab. Those huge and heavy speakers sounded much better and the bass was unbelievable (they were Klipsch corner horn design). From then on, I was much more cautious about products in general. This has been a great hobby for me.
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I had a pair of Bose 901s.I bought used in mint condition for $315 ,they were fair traded back in 1972.When set up right they sound Great...I don't know why people hated them...lol....but they do sell alot of overrated garbage...lol
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Everything I own was well worth the discounted price I paid. I seldom settle for paying the full price for anything. 90% of what I own was bought brand new. Some of it 30 years old or more, and still working. My Tannoys I bought at a great price, due to dealer error. I was supposed to receive a used pair, but a salesman sold them not knowing that they were set aside for me. Turns out, to make all good, they sent me a brand new pair fresh from the Tannoy factory in Scotland! That was a Happy day..... |
2psyop: Sorry you had such issues with Odyssey Audio. I purchased a Stratos HT3 from Klaus (actually a one-off with new circuit boards for the L/R channels and an old board for the center channel) with cap upgrade following a little negotiating at an audio show. I had a hum problem as well. I was able to get Klaus’ assistant on the phone, and he walked me through the process of removing a ground wire inside the amp that he suspected was the issue. It was indeed the issue, and since then, which is about 10 years now, the amp has been totally silent. I did have one capacitor fail early on. While Odyssey Audio gladly and quickly replace it under warranty, I was a little upset by the large shipping charges required to send the 64 lb. amp to Minnesota. But overall, my experience was far better than yours, I think. FWIW, I love the sound of the Stratos. As they say, YMMV. |
Odyssey Audio. By far the worst company and the worst products I have owned. The most positive thing I can say is this; After owning three pieces that had hum and buzz coming from the transformers and not getting in touch with the owner (no returned messages) I finally reached him and returned the gear. It came back with the same problems. Mr K. lectured me on my power problems, even though countless pieces of gear never revealed this problem. So after years, not months, he agreed to buy it back at a huge loss to me. That is the good part.
I know there are fans, but I cannot see it from my vantage point.
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I regretted buying the Dynaco 416 amp with the outboard C-100. I had heard it in someone else's system and I was enthralled with the immense power and the flashing LEDs. I got it home and immediately blew out 2 pairs of speakers. But it wasn't until I switched it out for a pair of Mark III monoblocks that I knew I had made a dreadful mistake.
I also regretted buying the Magnepan 2Bs until I got them into the right room and learned how to position them.
But generally I buy used and more than 5 years old, so I don't get much buyer's remorse. The only exception to that is cartridges and CD players, which are the only things I have bought new in the last 20 years.
But I am considering a NAS drive... |
zavato: Wow, you must have gotten a lemon of a Thorens. I bought a TD-166MkII new in 1984 and it is still in regular use (slightly modded). |
My biggest disappointment is having bought the simaudio 740p preamp brand new after reading so many rave reviews on this unit. Usd9k
Sold it for half the price in just 3 months.
Compared to my aged aragon 28k, it sound veiled, lacked dynamics, muted highs and muddy bass.
I swear i would never touch this brand ever. I really wonder what the heck those reviewers are hearing.
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A turntable that cost as much as a nice car but I rarely use. |
The worst purchase I ever made was before I even had a system that could be considered high end. It was 1984 (or so) that I decided those newfangled CD players thingies had come down enough in price to warrant buying one. I read every issue of the known bible (Stereo Review) I could find that talked about CD players, and finally decided on a $400 Onkyo player with the heavily marketed "Opto Coupling" between the digital and analog sections. Brought it home, hooked it up, and immediately went through a whole roll of Bounty sopping up the blood pouring from my ears. I didn't know about things like break-in back then, but even that wouldn't have helped this player. Took it back to the store and told them it was defective. With no questions asked, they took it back and ordered a replacement. When that arrived, I took it home only to experience the same unlistenable dreck. The store had never really offered any money-back guarantees, but they were good enough to take back the 2nd player and give me store credit for the full purchase price.
I didn't even look at another CD player for over 5 years....
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This one is easy...I bought one of the Carver "The Receiver" and I ended up counting the hours until that thing sold in the newspaper classifieds. It literally sounded awful. I don't think there was anything mechanically wrong with it, it just turned my Infinity speakers into echoing soup cans, and not due to an impedance or power-requirement mismatch.
The shame is, I’m sure Carver makes lots of great gear (I assume?) but after that purchase I’ve never been able to go back to that brand.
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Lots of nice post here, very interesting. I can really agree with Mitch4T. I started this game in mid 80’s with a much lower income. Over the years I’ve been disappointed with a lot of the so called Giant Killer products but that’s where we go when the funds a low. Once my disposal income reached a little higher level, I’ve been real happy with my buys. Of course, the education I have received along way helped. |
DarTZeel
nice finish, sound like Kenwood |
The only item that I've purchased that ultimately proved a disappointment was a Thorens turntable in bought in the mid 80's. Motor issues and tonearm bearing issues were routine. Admittedly it was not a very pricey table, and I did have it for about 5 years. Sold it and bought a Rega Planar 3 which was problem free.
I did did have a California Audio Labs CD player that needed several warranty repairs. Without jinxing anything I would say all my present gear has been quite problem free. For instance, I've had my turntable for 18 years now and it has never needed any repairs. |
The $4K represents everything in the loom. Materials for the speaker cables cost $750. BTW, I'm not suggesting that cables are unimportant-- rather that this endeavor is accessible to the average DIYer with almost no knowledge of electronics. Once understood you could hire a high school student or my sister-in-law to make cables... |
Thanks, dgarrestson - very informative. Sadly, I have neither the skills or time for DIY. Not to mention the inability to afford $4K worth of silver foil! |
Bondmanp, Cables are an area where a little research and basic DIY skill, together with the use of first-rate materials and a modest investment of time, produces VG to excellent results at reasonable prices. My current loom is PCs: shielded 8awg .999 silver or Furutech Alpha 3 bulk cable with Furutech ends. Speaker cables: shielded and grounded, teflon and silk insulated .999 stacked silver foils with 1.5 lbs. of silver therein. ICs: shielded, grounded Parts ConneXion Connex/DH Labs BL-Ag balanced silver bulk IC cable with teflon dielectric and Neutric ends. 100+ ft. @ $16/stereo ft. At the current commodity price for fine silver, the entire investment is perhaps $4K. Over the years I’ve wasted perhaps 5 times that in commercial cables that depreciated, and demoed some in the $10K range that don’t compare to the better DIY. I try to believe that all purchasing decisions in audio should be considered at the margin of the greatest improvement for the least investment. There has always been something better to buy than expensive cables.
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So, dgarretson, I am curious. What cabling do you have in your system, and why? |
I agree with you about the "passion" thing. I think of an expensive cable like a $5 cup of coffee: a momentary gratification, an impulse for novelty, an affordable expenditure relative to electronics, and a usually wasted surplus that would be more wisely banked for a more meaningful upgrade. How much do we spend at Starbucks in a year? It adds up. I’ve been selling piece parts to high end audio OEMs for awhile. I rarely encounter an electronics or speaker designer who cares much about expensive cables. What does this say? Possibly that expensive cable-swapping is mostly a pastime of the non-technical consumer who disguises an urge to tinker as pseudo-science. Of course people are free to spend money to express themselves anyway they like. |
in my opinion, most very expensive audio stuff are highly overpriced. Cables are the most flagrant of all. The manufacturers play on a psychological level towards very high end customers who can afford it, and on the fact that it is a passion and that with passion you can spend a lot irrationally and without really counting your expenses.
And often the passionate customer thinks all needs to be hyper priced to be very good. It is difficult to reason with passion. I have heard system sounding 10 times better while costing ten times less than other hyped systems.
One other thing is that audio reviews get everyone confused, and are not much help in the end. Everything they review tends to be good or very good. Never seen a review say "this is crap". They go about their little literature, using repetitive audio terms, with some humor, comparisons have no real common base and industry approved way of rating, and they all end up by "recommended" or "highly recommended".
If one is to make up a good system, he better be able to assess for himself and/or hear it first. Hearing and tasting sound is another education, and you can get very high without hyper stuff.
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I know Bose still is kinda funny but they did make the 901 series speakers! Old school but not bad!
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In early 1983 I bought my first cd player, a Fisher that my home furnishing friend from down the street was all excited about. I brought it home, hooked it up, and slipped in my very first purchesed cd. What I got was a loude harsh static noise, and green light flooding out from the place that I had just inserted my cd.I took it back to the store, and they wanted to send it off some place to get it repaired. They were also quite unhappy with me when I stated that after only having the unit for less than an hour, I should unreasonably demand a full refund....I got my money back and then bought a Sony.
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tubes444,
You win the best in thread prize! Regarding the ex, did you get her new or used?
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That's easy!! Me X wife. She was full IM distortion! Here tubes were always out of bias! Her capacitors were of the wrong values! I put her in Audiogon for sale! All inquires wanted money guarantee! Before giving there PAYPAL# Lesson learned. Always do your home work before adding new gear. Lest you get-it in the REAR!! tubes444 |
1- Classe: 350 wpc x2 amp. 2- Classe 150 wpc x 6/ 300 wpc x3 amp. 3,4- Their matching preamps. I am not saying they were bad, by any means, but they are way over designed, grossly expensive to repair, and do not sound overall better than my Audire equipmet. Luckily they were inherited.
For the same or less money, you can do better, and I have owned B&W speakers since 1976, upgrading as deals arise. Since B&W owns Classe, one might think they could do better. Of course my B&Ws were originally overpriced, too, at $3000 in 1998, with 6" woofers.
5- Magnapan MG III ("III", I think).
6- Phase Linear preamps.Lived with 'em; didn't own. |
Unlike a lot of you I have wasted a great deal of money on very poor audio equipment over the years. The worst was an absolutely divine-sounding tube amp by a company called "Melos" that (in my opinion) richly, richly deserves to be where it is today...out of business.
I bought the amp new in the early '90s and it was the second most expensive component I had ever bought at the time, at $2,400. I owned it for several years during which time it was serviced three times, the longest period of downtime lasting a number of months. Along the way, it functioned for a grand total, cumulatively, of less than 20 hours.
Shipping back to the manufacturer (second repair attempt) had to be done by truck rate because it was such a large, heavy box, and after great expense and a very long wait, the amp worked for six hours before blowing up again.
I finally got so frustrated with it that I boxed it up, put it in the closet, and forgot about it. Life is too short to suffer such frustration...it's bad for your health.
Finally I traded it in to Holm Audio in Chicagoland, a dealer which is still in business as far as I know. I was brutally honest with them about my problems with it, but they were unconcerned with my stories, stating that they had an expert technician who could fix anything and make anything work. They gave me trade-in value of $750 for it, making my cost of ownership for the amp $82.50 per hour of use!
Months later, I was in Holm Audio again, and the owner, whose name I think was Mike, heard I was there and came downstairs just to tell me in astonishment what horrible experiences they'd had with the amp. Apparently they had sold it several times and it had come back to them each time. I just shrugged and reminded him that I hadn't hidden anything from them--I'd told them all about it. The salesman reminded the owner that this was true.
I used the trade-in money to buy a pair of Tannoy Mercury floorstanders, which, conveniently, cost $750 at the time. They were wonderful speakers (very tube-friendly, which is why Holm carried them--it's a tube-oriented audio store) and served me very well for more than 15 years with many different amps. They never gave me a moment of trouble and, since I worked at home for much of that time, I put thousands and thousands of hours on them over the years.
So maybe I did get my $2,400 worth in the end...by a very roundabout means. :-)
Dualmarantz
P.S. My tube amp now is a beautiful Dynaco Stereo 70 replica (i.e., entirely built of new parts, not a restoration) called the ST-70, built by Bob Latino of tubes4hifi-dot-com. They're sold as kits or fully assembled...mine cost $1,150 and Bob built it for me in a weekend. I can't speak highly enough of the amp or of Bob's helpfulness and customer service, which is absolutely top class. The only problem with the amp is finding speakers for it, as most speakers need more power these days.
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I have Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse with dual PS and remote control, total retail is USD 24K. I have never regretted purchasing it. :)
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2 Wavelength Audio USB DACs, the Brick and the Cosecant models. I owned pre-async versions so I don't know if the async versions represented a major improvement. |
Most all software, 99% are usually bogged down with gimmicky updates and slower performance. Even peo DSP and VST effect I've bought or used seemed to be the same no matter how close they clams if emulates this or that, non of them are no match for hardware.
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My biggest mistake was selling my Klipsch active SP-1 Speakers (free). And then I bought a new pair of Klipsch RP-280F. For €1000,- $1140. The sound is better. Especially in the bass departement. My girlfriend hates the bigger look of the new speakers compared to the old ones. And for that amount of money i could easily have something better 2nd hand. A good friend payed $570 - €500 for a pair of Neat Acousitc Elite SE. No ear fatigue, great PRAT, WAF friendly, good treble. Damn i should have kept that money in my pocket for something like that at least.
Also another good friend didn't hear too much difference between my old and new speakers :( |
I owned Bose 901 speakers for many years. I enjoyed them and experienced many hours of musical pleasure listening to them. They do not compete with truly accomplished speakers, but they are far from the disasters that they are often made out to be. |
I'm also disappointed with almost all my audiophile purchases. Being selling all of them off slowly and switching to cheap pro audio gears. |
Ok, I own it, I use it but pound for pound for what it does and what components comprise its makeup...it is the most overpriced piece of gear I have....
my Okki Nokki record cleaner |
My very first set of speakers, inexpensive Infinity towers (circa 1985) was unbearably bright--I wasted time & money trying to tame it. But from this came a key audio realization: know the sound you favor and build around it. I learned I favor deep, rich bass, expansive mid-bass, and pure midrange, and dislike bright, "revealing" highs. Now I know...
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I wasn't going to participate but I must strongly disagree with starboard, the Yggdrasil beats anything I have demoed in my home, including, Resolution Audio, Chord, dcs. To answer the original post, I hated a pair of Merlin VSMs I bought in 2001 fortunately traded with a guy for some Reynaud Offrandes that I loved, he preferred the Merlins, maybe Merlin guys wont like Shiit gear and vice versa? |
Oh geez, my turkey has to be a Benjamin Miracord turntable circa 1971. it spent more time in the repair shop than on my shelf playing records. Next, could be the Jaecklin Floats headphones. Everyone raved about them, but they were bright and difficult to listen to. Headband looked like a electric shock therapy device. |
I've pretty much been disappointed with ALL my purchases for one reason or another, believe it or not. Simply because, either the hype was so great about a given component and it didn't live up to it, or I just couldn't afford to get the good stuff and satisfy my very picky ear. Now as I get older, I make enough to get the "good stuff", AND I seem to make better choices about my gear, and not make all the dopey mistakes that I did when I was younger. |
When trying out an Ayre Codex, was able to try out some very expensive cables (greater than $1K price range) between the Codex and our amplifier. On a single-blinded test ( spouse was changing the cable ) I was not able to tell the difference between them and ordinary cables. So we certainly did not purchase them. but very happy with our Ayre Codex purchase. |
Very good and interesting perspectives here guys. Happy Listening! |
I do own a Bose Acoustimass III Series passive subwoofer that i bought for ~$10 and that i just adore...It sits hidden up behind and driven by a Fujitzu 55" Plasmavision in my wood paneled bedroom, where it feeds 2 mismatched Klipsch center channel speakers (SC: 5, aimed left and KV - 1, aimed down), also hidden and paid about the same price...
They yield a quite surprisingly pleasant and unobjectionable result. Haha |
I own the direct stream after trying a few dacs. Defiantly don't regret it. no problem with Hi res. Try every dac u can get your hands on.
Biggest regret was a denon blu ray player. $400 piece of junk that denon didn't even care about so they never updated the firmware
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