There were many threads on the topic of "audiophile fuses" on this forum, and I sure don't want to open old wounds and trench warfare. The fuse on my preamp blew suddenly two days ago, which prompted me to search for a replacement. That's when I came across the term "audiophile fuse" and the fact that they demand far-out prices. Deeper curiosity brought me to several other fora, where users posted glowing praises about their Zero fuses and other exotica. Now I am a scientist, but not a physicist or electrical engineer: so please enlighten me! How can a fuse have an audible influence on the signal, when the signal does not even pass through it? How can a fuse be "directional" when it deals with alternate current? I mean, if I recall my university physics, a fuse is basically a safety valve and nothing more. Am I completely missing an important point here? My scientific field is drug discovery, and because of this background I am thoroughly familiar with the power and reality of the placebo effect. I that's what I am seeing here, or is it real physics? I need objective facts and not opinions, please. I really appreciate your help!
I have a SMSL Bluetooth amp on my back porch that I use with in ceiling speakers. When I sold my Thiel speakers last winter, I set them up in my shop with that SMSL amp. Thiels have the reputation of being hard to drive so I was kinda wondering if that little amp might burst into flames when I turned it on. It was fine although I started with the volume turned down really low.
So I’m playing songs through my iPhone with Bluetooth to my Thiel speakers and I was amazed at how good they sounded at first. Really shocked. I turned up the volume a little and then I could tell that the sound was lacking. But without the experience of hearing a good hifi rig, I can see how someone would be satisfied with the sound of these amps and not feel the need to spend more money- at least until they bring home a $2000 amp to try.
You get the 20-20k range with any amp but more money brings better bass, smoother highs, timber, 3d holographic sound, imaging, space, blacker background, etc.
The coolest experience with my rig these days is to play a Chorale piece. The singers go wall to wall and up to the ceiling. I can make out each individual voice in the choir vs. being just a cloud of sound. It’s not for everyone but that gives me a thrill.
The topic, “Do more expensive amps/gear sound better than cheaper gear?” didn’t exist a few decades back because we had a proliferation of Brick and Mortar Audio Stores. One could walk in and hear a dozen combinations of amps, preamps, speakers, turntables and CD players and then decide for themselves what sounded best to their ears. And if the sales person sensed you were close to buying they might escort you into their high end hifi room hoping they were not tugging on the line too hard to rip the hook out of your mouth.
These days the brick and mortar stores are more difficult to find and people prefer to shop online. My son, for example avoids shopping at the grocery store. He orders nearly everything online. So it is easier to believe that all electronics sound basically the same and with little to no listening experience of a good hifi rig, they just order that SMSL amp from Amazon.
A whole other thing is personal experimentation with what a fuse in your audio system can do and whether you can hear the difference in sound and whether that difference in sound justifies the purchase. Each and every one of these issues are subjective and personal. It is very hard and slow to change a fuse in a device, and that the auditory memory does not betray you in that interval. For this reason, very few of those who have bought a HIFI fuse are willing to do those A vs. B tests, and in general terms we just assume the purchase and forget about it. All this under the idea that this new fuse is not going to cause the equipment to sound worse.
HI, I see the issue of fuses like so many other things in the world of audio and that revolves around why it is worth buying a power cable, or any audio component from certain famous and expensive brands. A class D power amp can be had for less than $1000 and can play music from 20hz to 20khz. However, there are people who buy $100,000 power amps that also play 20hz to 20khz music. Those who can afford it will say that this purchase is because subjectively the music sounds better with that amplifier than with another one at a much lower cost. Spending $600 on a penny-priced fuse is one of those situations. I am not satisfied with the statements that a HIFI fuse has no effect on the sound of a device, based on the fact that the manufacturer would put it as standard if that improvement in sound was true. If we apply that same rule, why do 90% of the owners of amplifiers such as Boulder, Pass, Soulution, etc. buy a power cable, when the device already comes with one as standard. I don't know many people who keep their black power cords in their high-end appliances.
Is everyone familiar with Murphy’s Law? It states that if something can go wrong it will.
Corollary 1: When left to themselves, things go from bad to worse.
My favorite: in order for something to become clean, something else must become dirty, but everything can become dirty without anything becoming clean.
No way! I’m ordering the copper slug. Wait. What if the copper slug does more for the sound than upgraded fuses? Then I’ll be torn between protecting my amps vs better sound. Or worse, I have to spend more money and get the SDFB’s. The saying is so true: “Ignorance is bliss.”
A corollary to Murphy’s Law: A $10 transistor will blow to protect a $0.10 fuse.
@thyname thanks for the shout out as the original "we don't need no stinking fuses" guy.
I have tested the Swiss Digital Fuse Box and recommend it over any fuse.
My impression was that it wasn't as good as the "large gauge piece of metal" (high conductivity copper) but not a lot of difference. If you feel you need/want electrical protection, I recommend the SDFB.
I think some people are confused about the configuration of the SDFB. It provides better protection than a fuse. Generally a magnetic current monitoring circuit will trip much faster than a slow blo fuse.
Of course we've all had experience where a compoent failed and the fuse didn't protect it. that's just the nature of electronics the fuse protects against upstream disturbances more than downstream failures.
@tonywingaPicked up an Amazon 3/8” (5mm) x 12” 99.9 pure copper rod a few days ago. Cut to 20 mm lengths, cleaned them up and took the plunge. Wow is all I have say…every aspect of the music Is improved over my audio fuses. Risk yes but low in my mind. I have never had a component fuse blow. All components plugged into protected power conditioners. I Make sure they are only powered up when I am using and I unplug them during any rare power outages as a backup. Waiting for a higher grade conductivity copper slug to compare with these once it arrives. 🤞🤞 SD fuse box does seem like a nice insurance for more expensive or rare components which doesn’t really apply to me. 🤔
+1 on the SD fuse box, mine has been in for a week along with the Puron AC conditioner that VeraFi distributes...they work and trying them has zero risk other than shipping fees.
Ask yourself: what if instead of having a fuse, using a large gauge piece of metal? There is some risk, so only for the brave of heart @carlsbad2@carlsbadstyle.
This discussion has peeked my interest. I have purposefully avoided audiophile fuses- up to now. Maybe it’s these hot summer days. I ordered some HiFi Tuning fuses for my amps and DAC. Not too expensive so I guess I’m dipping my toe into the audiophile fuse waters. They should arrive on Monday. One thing about this hobby is that it stays interesting as long as I have the money to spend…
One thing I will try is resistance measurements on the fuses cold, RT and hot just to see if they behave differently. I have only a multimeter so unless the changes are significant the multimeter may not detect a difference. I might go to just 200 F since who knows for sure what foo foo dust is inside.
Agreed. Our beliefs are our beliefs. Certainly no hard feelings and my apologies to all for side tracking the discussion. Because, you know, that rarely happens!🤓
I am not a scientist. I have been in audio 50+ years and have $100k+ system. A couple of years ago I purchased an “audiophile” fuse for my VTL power amp. Did not notice one bit of sound improvement
Exactly. People turn scientific theories into a religion. Everyone wants to believe in something. Hey, if you can look me in the eye and tell me you believe in the guy with a machine that goes “ping” then good for you. I not disputing your beliefs.
" But the sciences that are more theoretical, astrophysics, anthropolgy, etc are built on a fragile system of suppositions and yet people build a belief system around these theories as a way to find comfort in their existence."
I also don’t understand this statement. I think the exact opposite to be true.
People find comfort in their existence by building a belief system around religion, not scientific theories.
My eyes are open. If you had researched it, then you would know about dendrochronology and Bayesian Modeling and would know that it’s not art and guess work and wouldn’t have made that statement. It's come a long way since its inception.
Since radiocarbon dating is strictly for organic material, do you also discount methods to date the Earth itself, such as Rubidium-Strontium Dating, Potassium Argon Dating, and Uranium-Thorium-Lead Dating? If so, what is behind your belief?
I researched it. Perhaps you should research it a little more yourself. It might open your eyes. Radiocarbon dating is more art and guesswork than science.
We have the science/engineering that we rely on for our day to day technology- a pretty reliable working knowledge. But the sciences that are more theoretical, astrophysics, anthropolgy, etc are built on a fragile system of suppositions and yet people build a belief system around these theories as a way to find comfort in their existence.
I have had SR purples in my Primaluna pre and power for a couple of years and loved them, but it took about 20 hours of play to really start to hear what they were doing. At 50 hours the juice really started to come on.
A few weeks ago I added the SR "Master" fuse to my Holo Audio May Level 3 Kitsune DAC. The Holo May came with a "Nano Red" fuse which claimed audiophile level enhancement. The pricey Master fuse had a 30 day trial period, so I thought, "why not?" This fuse takes somewhat longer to break in than the Purples, but it has been worth the wait. There is more "solidity" and tonal accuracy along with sound stage enhancement with an increase in detail - clearer sustain and decay - all the goodies. The Master was played as much as I could within the 30 day trial period. At first the fuse sounded a bit stiff and flat footed, but then opened up after about 20 hours. Now after about 200 hours it has bloomed extraordinarily. Again, make sure you take the time to play it as much as possible within the 30-day window.
These are being played through Cornwall 4 horn speakers, and it may be that high sensitivity speakers show these fuses off better,
Thought the subject was audiophile fuse. Some of you are worse than my cat that has adhd. I am not a believer in the “science” of audiophile fuses, I have experimented with them and returned them all, ceramic fuses work fine for me. I do believe in a higher power also and for all we know it may have come here in a UFO.
I have some friends who are fundamentalist Christians ... don’t try to convince them otherwise with science because I know they are happier with their beliefs even though I know it is complete nonsense.
It looks like some of the measurementalists in this group are especially intolerant of religions that are not their own. That is a very bad look.
Science can’t prove the earth is older than 6000 years. You only believe it can. To think otherwise makes you uncomfortable, I bet. So many look to science for comfort that dying is an escape from misery, grief and boredom. So not true.
@1extreme Think that's bad? I heard of folks who believe that some invisible deity controls the entire universe. And if you don't talk to it in your mind, you may burn forever.
...who will look me in the eye and tell me they believe the earth is only 6,000 years old.
Well, I have not auditioned or replaced any fuses in any of my systems. I have, however, tried and attest to the positive effects of many of the high-end tweaks out there including some of the products from Synergistic Research. As such, why would well respected companies want to put their reputation on the line if there was nothing to it?
My guess is that there really is something to it, but the explanation is hard to come by. How about trust your ears, we do that with virtually everything else.
I would posit that fuses are detrimental to audio (from the sound perspective) because they are non linear. Fuses are designed to be a cascading failure. The filament heats up as electrical current passes through it. As it heats up the resistance increases causing further heating. This filament is delicately balanced to ultimately heat up to the melting point at the rated current. Besides being a constriction point to the flow of electricity they are also a non linear constriction point.
The ideal fuse would be digital. That is it would have zero resistance up to the rated current and then go to infinite resistance- a step change. But the temperature of the filament in a standard fuse is fluctuating with current and therefore the resistance is changing. So the question is what do audio grade fuses do different?
Does an audio grade fuse act more like an ideal fuse? Does it have lower resistance or less variation in resistance up to the point of failure at rated current? Have these audio fuses been tested enough to insure that they will blow at the rated current?
If I had a mega Ohm bridge tester, I would compare the resistance values of a standard fuse side by side with an audio grade fuse at room temp, after cold soaking in a freezer and then after heat soaking in an oven at say, 400F. That would be interesting data.
Why are people extolling their ignorance? As a species we have developed outstanding descriptions of gravity and electro-magnetism. The descriptions are more complex than what you would be taught in freshman physics, but complexity doesn't equal a lack of knowledge. Listen to this guy.
No need @thecarpathian. I did check. We still don't know for sure how gravity works. Lots of theories. Nothing for sure. Now some think they have discovered a new force as well at the subatomic level.
Apparently: you've overlooked the fact that the OP didn't change the question*, from 'HOW' to 'WHAT', until the second page (08-22-2022).
I've very seldom tried to present definitive answers to anything, when it comes to our cables, fuses, interconnects, lifters, but: there exists a plethora of possibilities, presented by the experimentation, theories and developments in the sciences/fields of QED, Physics and electromagnetism.
* My original question should have been more focused perhaps: "Can anyone in this esteemed forum share experiences - good or bad - with so-called audiophile fuses?"
I don’t know the deep darkest secrets of quantum mechanics and how that effects the covalent bonds of the alloys that make up my car. I am not even sure that is a totally logical statement. I expect the engineers that designed it don’t either. I am quite certain that my capable mechanic knows even less. Whether I or they have this knowledge has no effect on the 0-60 time. Whether I or they have this knowledge will have no effect on measuring the 0-60 time. If I drop a heavy lead ball, it will fall to the ground in a very predictable manner, that I could calculate to a high accuracy if I knew the local gravity coefficient. Well to be honest, I couldn’t calculate it, but I am sure there are others who could. I don’t keep up on the latest research on gravity, but the last time I checked, we didn’t know how gravity works. Imagine that, not knowing how gravity works, but being able to calculate its effects to high precision. Heck I go through my day doing a great number of things correctly without knowing exactly how some things work. No problem though because I know the what. If I do this, I know what will happen. The how is inconsequential. The consequential is what. When someone can take all that how and turn it into a what that matters, I am all ears, literally and figuratively. @reimarc question is looking for a what. All the potential hows in the world don’t make a single what.
@reimarc, I don't know the answer to your question. I don't even know if there is an answer to your question. After reading 80 replies I do know you will not find the answer here.
Another suburban family morning Grandmother screaming at the wall We have to shout above the din of our Rice Krispies
We can’t hear anything at all Mother chants her litany of boredom and frustration But we know all her suicides are fake
Threads like this are why I don’t post much on audio forums. They are all the same. The person screaming the loudest is invariably the one with the least knowledge. Words, lots of words. Never shall a salient point be made. A discussion requires addressing specific points and bringing up new salient points. I guess when you only have one tool in your belt, you will use it all the time whether it works or not.
Here is a picture of a very cute kitten. It is as relevant to this discussion as most of the links posted. However, it has the advantage that it may make some people smile and it will induce calm.
@macg19....Ah, but trench warfare is So back in fashion...
...and opening old wounds does allow for the search of infection,and its' byproduct..
Rot. ; )
Objective facts just spoil the mysticism of audioligion....the worship of the bottles filled with fire, the magical wires that lash the boxes of the faithful to the oracles that speak the volumes of the desire to be transported to the isles of Elsewhere.
The 'How' is trampled by the 'Ends'....the 'Means'?
Once again, as so many times before....subject to the Needs....*sigh*
Easily ignored...cost be damned, brushed aside, don't logic me, 'peasant'..
Accompanied by "....if you only knew the Truth, your idylls would fall like the ash of
and I sure don’t want to open old wounds and trench warfare.
Then don’t question audiophile ________:)
I need objective facts and not opinions, please.
Wrong forum. Objective facts are tough to come by, because so many questions (and responses) are related to the subjective perception of sound quality.
So, as a scientist, after wading through this thread, I’m curious what your conclusion is, anecdotally of course:)
ie: Inescapable FACT: No one understands exactly how electricity works.
That’s why there’s so much Electrical THEORY.
The number of Wiki-Scientists on these pages, attempting to win the IG-Nobel Prize in Pseudo-Physics, is always amusing.
Whenever some highly educated person actually does discover exactly how electricity functions, they’ll be lauded by the scientific community, will have solved some of the disparities between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, receive a Nobel and we’ll hear about it.
Newton’s THEORIES were largely superseded by Einstein and Bohr's. Then came Feynman’s. For now; none of you can absolutely prove your statements (theories), regarding electricity, FUSES, wires, or anything else, as regards our systems.
The following articles, read in sequence, illustrate my point:
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