@reimarc
Fuses like any other connector work on transfer with least loss. Everyone already knew that one, right? Then I see people jumping off a dead battery expecting a few hundred (peak) amps to transfer through the .03 square inches of contact surface by way of the teeth on the clamps.
Materials and their design for wiring will make a difference and is perceived by some and not by others. (A big discussion here, often).
F1 drivers feel a difference in a single psi in one tire, but I don't feel it in my Tundra.
Does that mean it Can't make a difference because I couldn't tell?
Lots of Baloney in this hobby creates many questioning of some of these products, but closing your mind, (not you, your question shows your open minded), but many say product or design X CANNOT make a difference.
The original "it can't make a difference" people are still cooking over a campfire just outside their cave.
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@reimarc , it depends on the design of your component. If you note that a fuse is in the signal path of a low feedback design, etc, it could potentially cause a very minor audible change...
If the fuse is not in the signal path or if you may have even the slightest hint of hearing loss, etc, don't waste your time on stuff like this..
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I had a buddy in high school that ran the movie projector at our local drive in movie theater. (Ca. 1974). He let me in the projection shack to watch him work once. He had a large motor that drove a DC generator. He first cleaned up the commutator with some sandpaper wrapped around a wood stick. Then he mounted a carbon rod in the projector, started the screw drive and turned on the power. That was cool stuff. The carbon rod, I think could last one reel which was about an hour. He had two projectors and both were required to show one complete movie.
2nd story: In Ag class in high school we were rebuilding the engine on an old Oliver tractor. It used a magneto ignition and had a crank on the front as backup for starting the engine. The engine was torn down but the block and crank were still mounted in the tractor with the magneto. So as a right of passage, each one of us had to hold on to a spark plug wire while someone spun the crank. And the faster you can crank the stronger the magneto pulse. We had one large kid who could hold onto the spark plug wire no matter how fast someone would spin the crank. He just stood there saying, “he he he.” Scary guy.
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My guess based on successful reports is that one would have to spend significantly more like for SR or QSA fuses to hear notable differences.
I'll pass on that. Here's a few quotes from past audiogon discussions:
It's unfortunate that Hifituning discontinued the Silver Star fuses. It was the real champ in their line. From speaking with others who have experience with the Supremes, they will leave you wanting compared to the discontinued silvers. I was fortunate to scarf up some Silver Stars from Parts Connexion when they had a close-out sale on them.
Yes, the Silverstar are made from pure silver. They are very fast and bright fuses. So, if you feel they sound nice, they are definitely well broken in.
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@kennyc
Yes… I got zapped by my distributor cap and coil output more than once.
Actually, the one I remember the most was when I was when I was a projectionist in the 1960’s with a 1940’s carbon arc movie projector (two 1/4” thick carbon sticks that you had to bring together to start an electrical arc… then back off. Sustaining the brilliant arc of electricity (think lightning)…somehow I got shocked… it threw me across the room and against the wall… I just became aware of existence as if a dream. Wow, that was a jolt! Never want that again! Like getting electrocuted I am sure.
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My guess based on successful reports is that one would have to spend significantly more like for SR or QSA fuses to hear notable differences.
@ghdprentice
Last time I remembered getting shocked was when adjusting the timing points on my distributor- many moons ago. I’m thankful for circuit breakers - much safer.
Which got me thinking, of all the innovations in my lifetime, I’m really glad for word processors - made many typewriter typos so correction take/fluid slowed things to a crawl. I wonder if the best innovation for my mom was the washing machine- I spotted an old scrub board when I was young.
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@dpop,
Thanks for sharing your experience. A good data point for sure.
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In my case I was replacing the power supply filter caps in a few pieces of equipment (my distribution amps). Since the fuses are internal in these DA's, I thought if I'm going to do it (it being the first time I would try some "audiophile" fuses), then this would be the best time. I tried some HiFi Tuning Silverstar's (I think they were like $15 a piece), and didn't hear *any* difference. I fell for it, but I won't be falling for it again (however, I still left them in the DA's).
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@kennyc
I remember pennys in fuse box… not often fortunately. I also remember getting shocked all the time when changing fuses…. Which seemed to happen a lot back then.
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When I was a kid I remember people putting pennies in their fuse boxes....
I remember my parents doing that
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I got a refund for the fuses.
You know, what mapman says about fuses could also be said for vacuum tubes or even a fine meal. Anyone see the cost of WE 300b tubes these days?
The front end of my stereo system has a total of 22 tubes. I’m not bragging, I’m just pointing out that the nature of this hobby is expense- both the upfront costs, the depreciation and the recurring costs (electricity, tube replacement, subscription costs, repairs, etc) must be considered. To denigrate the use of expensive, handmade fuses is saying that the entire hobby is futile.
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+ ghdprentice
Same here but not 50 years… never had a power plug outlet fuse blow. Risk is very low and not really needed…give me those Sluggo’s instead and save 💰
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@mapman ”…device whose job is in fact to burn up and destroy itself when needed…”.
Well, yeah, but, in my fifty years of being an audiophile I have never had a fuse blow. I would imagine that is not an unusual experience.
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And burn I did- for curiosity…
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Only the most truly dedicated among us with a few extra bucks to literally burn would pay a fortune for a device whose job is in fact to burn up and destroy itself when needed. At least no drains involved for the money to go unexpectedly down with that one.
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The hurricane is past us. We had 10 hours of heavy rain and some wind but never lost power.
The HiFi Tuning fuses, 6.3A T Slow blow type arrived this morning. I installed them in my mono amps this evening and turned the amps on. One amp stayed on but the other amp turned on only for a moment and shut off. Pulled the fuse and confirmed with my Ohm meter that it had blown.
Experiment is over. I've had my fill of hifi fuses. I hope I can get a refund from the vendor for these two. I already took it on the chin for the last two fuses.
The Hifi Tuning fuse in my DAC is still working fine and it sounds good. I'm not touching it.
This is audio. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Not knowing isn't an option. And if anyone wants to claim confirmation bias, I'm almost certain the one amp would not have made any sound had I left the hifi fuses in place.
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I’m in middle Georgia a little ways west of Savannah, GA. We are experiencing heavy rain here and the wind is picking up. Still have power and still watching the humming birds flit around the feeders.
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to work less and earn more
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tonywinga
Thank You for the initial Fuse report. I am looking forward in reading more about your impressions/thoughts on HiFi Tuning Fuse(s).
Happy Listening!
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@tonywinga ,
Where abouts are you down there?
Poor little Cedar Key is getting it good, but it looks like one of my favorite places, Apalachicola, is going to get spared. Might get a little dicey for Sopchoppy and Carrabelle, though. Hope you ride it out safely!
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A .22 caliber slug would almost fit actually. Just a little bit too big. Still, not sure I would use one even in a pinch.
When I was a kid I remember people putting pennies in their fuse boxes- back in the day when homes had fuse boxes with screw in fuses. You know, when pennies were still made of copper. What I always wondered was who was stupid enough to push that penny into the socket with their finger. Sure, its all good as long as you are not touching ground with the other hand.
I have hunkered down for the hurricane. System is shut down cold and unplugged. Expect heavy rain, flooding and high winds so no fuse related listening tests today. Sending this now before we lose power.
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@tonywinga
Maybe you didn’t leave the slugs in long enough to break in properly.😁
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Has anyone tried using a 22 long as a fuse? How did it sound? Did you get a bang out of the improvement?
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Remember kids electricity kills.
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@tonywinga why would it matter if you had a copper slug or a fuse if everything was unplugged anyway.
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@tonywinga
Yes, copper slugs and thunderstorms seem like a very dangerous combination.
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ceramic fuse
Heat resistant, strong outer fuse body, usually constructed from ceramic or fibreglass. The cavity inside the fuse body is commonly filled with fine silica sand or quartz to absorb the heat and energy of an over-current.
Shrink tubing around ? the sand ?
maybe around the body and ends if it's the pig tail type but otherwise nah .
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We just had a strong thunderstorm and heavy rain blow through here. Boy was I glad I put the fuses back in my amps. I still unplugged everything. We had a couple of close strikes.
Btw- my mono bloc amps are on a dedicated circuit. The front end is on its own dedicated circuit. So when I put those copper slugs in, all I could think about was which will melt first, the copper slugs or the 10ga electrical line. But everything was fine.
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Thanks @tonywinga for your report. Really interesting.
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I’m starting to think that the function of these fuses isn’t about conductance. It’s about mechanical dampening. I know someone else brought that up before. It has a silver filament and that’s it for electrical properties apparently. The ceramic tube and then the rubber tube inside that isolate and dampen the filament.
From that standpoint you are getting what you pay for. These are likely hand made and painstakingly assembled. Now, the real question is do they work? In the end you are paying for a product to provide a function. In the case of my DAC the hifi fuse helps. In the case of my amps, that is still to be determined. What I do know now is that the current factory fuse in my amp is not an electrical bottleneck or a restriction for power or sound. The copper slugs proved that- from a hearing standpoint. So will a damped and isolated fuse sound different in my amps? To be determined...
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"And even that is necked down just at one end."
Maybe from the heat of the solder used to connect that end of the wire to the end cap? The other end was probably connected prior to installing the heat shrink tubing.
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I'm guessing the shrink tubing is it. And even that is necked down just at one end.
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So, anti-vibration damping? 2c for $49?
Inside the ceramic tube is a piece of white shrink tubing that fits snugly within the ceramic tube
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Not to be intimidated by costly errors, I pressed on with my inquiry into fuses. I made two copper (99.9% pure) slugs, 5x20mm for my mono bloc amps. The engineer in me, being all too well acquainted with Murphy’s Law, was a bit reticent but I pushed on. With the two copper slugs installed in place of the slow blo fuses I listened to several songs. I detected no difference in sound. I put the fuses back and listened again and everything still sounds the same to me. I have two new slo blow HiFi tuning fuses arriving tomorrow but now I’m not sure it will be worth the trouble to swap out the factory fuses.
Now the fuse swap in my DAC made a noticeable difference in the sound- for the better. But in the case with my amps, I’m not expecting to hear a difference since the copper slugs had no impact on the sound. We will see.
So I ground the cap off of one end of my blown hifi fuse and peaked inside. I see a ceramic tube with the two metal end caps. Inside the ceramic tube is a piece of white shrink tubing that fits snugly within the ceramic tube. Inside that shrink tubing are the remains of a filament. It looks like silver wire and has a small shiny ball on the end. I’m sure that’s due to the current draw melting the wire when I powered up my amp. I don’t see any foo foo dust- unless it vanished when I ground the end off.
Anyone willing to sacrifice one of their $400 fuses to peak inside?
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Something to do with electron flow around (not through) affected by different types of conductors and materials, yada, etc. I tried them, did notice quite a difference. Wish I hadn’t, because I did not believe they would until I swapped even just one.
Too clear and palpable to be my brain lying to me simply for having purchased something more expensive than one dollar. Sorry, just another opinion! I didn’t follow the rules here 😣
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@mapman you don't think many audiophiles don't take out the fuses and reseat them on occasion? I'm sure some have even put their old fuses back in to compare.
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I don’t disagree. In this case however, I took the fuses out last week to verify the ratings and then reseated them. I detected no change in the sound.
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Reseating an existing fuse that is still in good condition alone can help the sound. Best to make sure what you have has no issues before throwing money at the problem and drawing conclusions.
A corollary of that is that almost any replacement fuse when needed can make a difference.
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I'm no closer to understanding how audio grade fuses work but I got my new Hifi Tuning fuses earlier today for my amps and DAC. I installed the fuse in my DAC. The change in sound was immediate and apparent. Deeper 3D imaging. A little more clarity and crispness. Images have an even more defined body to them. And this is listening in the middle of the day, in the heat with the A/C running. Can't wait until tonight to see how it sounds. This audio hobby is just like a drug addiction- always looking for the next big fix.
Now the other part of this story is a sad and tragic tale. A tale of woe. A costly and tragic tale of woe. I ordered two fast blo Hifi Tuning fuses for my mono bloc amps. I originally intended to test the fuses in the amps first and then in a day or two try the other fuse in the DAC. But alas, ignorance can be costly. My amps require slo blo fuses. When I pulled them out to check the ratings I saw a single filament in the fuse tube and assumed fast blo. All I had to do was 1) Look on the back of the amp where it said slo blo or 2) Know and understand that the letter "T" on the end of the fuse stands for slo blo. And so my amps powered up with the new fuses for just the briefest of moments and then poof. The fuses are toast. An expensive lesson but now I know; and a word of wisdom for others who read these woeful words. (Good thing I didn't start out with those $400 brands). These Hifi Tuning fuses are much less than $100 right now on sale. It still hurts.
After hearing the change the new fuse made to the DAC, I mustered up some intestinal fortitude and reordered the proper fuses, this time for my Amps.
But now I have a couple of audio grade fuses to cut open and see what's inside for myself. It's either that or try to sell them on eBay as used fuses. Any takers? :)
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Am I a little dry? Sorry. I’m getting old and crotchety, I guess.
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Your post needs some of this 
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Don't be so pedantic. Nearly every topic on these forums are assaulted by naysayers who refuse to believe any value is gained in higher end hifi let alone the clever and often times inexpensive tweaks and tricks of the trade- based on no experience.
What I am also saying is that people may sometimes be comparing two equivalent products thinking that one should be superior to the other because it cost 10% or 20% more. For example, they might test drive a Ford and a Chevy and like one over the other. But no one is going to compare a Ford to a Lamborghini, for example or claim that the Rabbit GTI is a giant killer. The Rabbit GTI is a great car in its own right but not the same class as a Lambo.
I learned this years ago with phono cartridges. I wore out a Koetsu Black phono cartridge. I enjoyed it very much. I bought a new "giant killer" cartridge for a few hundred dollars. It sounded good but it was not in the same league at all as the Koetsu. I quickly moved on to a much better phono cartridge.
Yes, high end hifi gets into the subtleties and nuances of music reproduction. Most don't hear it and don't care. Some people look at a painting and are moved in a profound way. I spent about a minute gazing at the Mona Lisa and moved on. (Hey, her eyes do follow me. Cool.)
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Certain things (at least at this point) cannot be measured in order to provide data that can be interpreted by independent observers demonstrating ironclad proof of an effect or lack thereof. It doesn't mean there is no effect. A foolproof test simply does not currently exist.
@orthomead , is this your learned opinion or are you spit-balling? I think there are several ways to provide pretty ironclad proof. Not only several ways but they are not even very hard. One does wonder why they are not done.
Just as I wrote earlier, these types of discussions were much less common when audio stores were more prevalent.
When audio stores were prevalent I don't remember anyone even discussing fuses.
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Unless we dissect then do a chemical analysis, we’ll never know the secret sauce to blow correctly AND sound better. I suspect a lot of trial with listening scrutiny before the fuses were brought to market. With SR fuses, and much steeper priced QSA fuses, I considering the Swiss Digital Fuse Box mentioned by a forum member
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Certain things (at least at this point) cannot be measured in order to provide data that can be interpreted by independent observers demonstrating ironclad proof of an effect or lack thereof. It doesn't mean there is no effect. A foolproof test simply does not currently exist. At this point, I think that is the state of fuses. Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that different fuses have a palpable effect on my system. Starting with Oregonpapa, my journey began. It is super apparent with the swiss digital fuse box. There are copper, brass, and gold infused sluggos, each with a distinct sonic footprint. These are easily exchanged and the difference is very obvious.
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Whatever your brain convinces the ears ! ?
I've experienced listening to a fuse shootout on a guitar amp using a glass fuse , a Littlefuse ( or Bussmann ) , a cryro'd ceramic and a gold plated ceramic . Yes I heard differences ( small but discernable ) the end result the My brain convinced My ears that the Littlefuse sounded best , does that make the other fuses inferior ? No I liked the sound of the plain ceramic fuse .
Now , my amp has 7 fuses 1 main and 6 on the board so I went to our local electronics supply and was able to purchase the 3 different values of generic ceramic fuses replacing the glass ones . A few months later no sound out of one channel so lifting the 56 lb. amp on to the bench and testing the fuses I found one of the four 6 am fuses blown . This pissed me off ( my own fault for using generic fuses , so I ordered Bussmann fuses and Wow just changing from the generic fuses made a sonic difference/ improvement . $2.00 each verse 50 cents , OK so how o\would a HiFi Tuning , a Synergistic Research or some other Audiophile fuse sound ? I considered the HiFi Tuning because they were the least expensive but when a Furutech showed up at 1/2 price $35.00 I had to try it on the mains input only . Does it sound better ? Well My brain convinced my ears that is does BUT when doing a back and forth with the Bussmann and the Furtech my wallet said yes the Furutech sounded a little bit better but not nearly enough to even consider replacing the other 6 fuses on the amp . I have replaced all glass fuses in my system with Bussmann or Littlefuse ceramic ones . But if I win the Lottery then maybe ?
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“Nothing has been established-just as expected.”
Sure, from your dogmatic, inexperienced in things hifi point of view nothing is established. The prose, these words written here have given you no great revelation. You came in with the “Audiophool” attitude so why would you expect anything different?
Just as I wrote earlier, these types of discussions were much less common when audio stores were more prevalent. People could hear for themselves the sound of different brands and levels of components. Now days, we have so many, “armchair audiophiles” with little to no experience in things hifi, who have not heard some great hifi systems in person and therefore believe or want to believe that anything more than they are willing to spend on Amazon for gear is a waste of money.
Don’t even get me started on people who review systems they hear on YouTube. Just like TV commercials in the 1970s showing us how their TV has a better picture than the TV we are watching the commercial on.
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Just about 10 days have passed since this thread started.
Nothing has been established-just as expected.
Littlefuse=couple of bucks for a handful
Audiophool fuse= MANY dollars for 1
SQ end result-whatever your brain convinces the ears.
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If we apply that same rule, why do 90% of the owners of amplifiers such as Boulder, Pass, Soulution, etc. buy a power cable, when the device already comes with one as standard.
Probably because they can.
Perhaps those that buy those amps are more susceptible to suggestions surrounding why they made that purchase in the first place?
Everyone jumping on the bandwagon is rarely a good argument.
Either way, does not answer the ops question.
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tonywinga
I am looking forward in reading about your impressions /thoughts on the HiFi Tuning Fuse. I have one (Silver) in my Marantz CD/SACD player that was switched out by the prior owner.
Happy Listening!
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