Weakest link in my system

tattooedtrackman OP

766 posts

12-16-2023 at 05:24pm 

@ghdprentice  BTW. I really love classic rock and pop. R n B. Little bit of classical and county. If I was gonna look at different speakers It would be the Wilson Alexx V. Happy holidays!! 

 

@ghdprentice

Rock was mentioned as a preferred style of music. I constructed my response primarily based on this.

Happy and Healthy New Year to you and yours!!! Enjoy the music!

@tattooedtrackman one more thing that I wanted to run by you after looking at your system pictures…I think you have a bit more room to spread the speakers further apart. They seem slightly too close to each other. Or may be it just seems that way on pictures?

@audphile1”…B&Ws are old but they kick butt…”

 

Yes, I agree. If all you listen to is rock definitely.

I hear you. If ARC says don’t run these amps thru power conditioner then definitely don’t. But usually the Shunyata conditioners are passive design and aren’t current limiting. Agree though might not be worth the risk. 

@audphile1   I definitely will let u know what the results are with the Denali. I wasn’t gonna try it with my ARC Ref 750s amps as I heard they definitely will sound the best from my wall with my 2 dedicated outlets. I was only gonna use it for my ARC Ref 9 cdp and ARC Ref 6 se pre. And my McIntosh Q112 equalizer. I’m kinda hesitant even trying my amps as I really don’t want to damage them with a power conditioner. 

Shunyata is good stuff and they know what they’re doing when it comes to power conditioners. Have fun and try all different combinations of components with it. Amps and sources, then just sources in the Shunyata with amps direct into wall. You might find the right recipe with it or prefer everything without the power conditioner. It’s a cool component to try.
I’d be curious to hear your results with the Denali. Keep us posted.

@audphile1  Nice reply !! Your reply is one of my favorites and one I have to agree with a lot. ALOT of people are saying the weakest link is the speakers because they are ancient and old. I loved these speakers as soon as I saw them in stereophile since I was a kid in the 90s. They listed for 15k to 18k depending on the finish. Back then at my age they were just a dream. ( never even heard them ) but I did demo the 801s back then and I they sounded phenomenal. I could only imagine how the 800s sounded. About 8 years ago I found a beautiful pair. Bought them and they were delivered from Texas to NJ. Still haven’t heard them in person and I’m still here to tell u that I’ve had absolutely not 1 regret with them. They are that phenomenal. I still would have to pay about 100k + for my choice of a Wilson speaker if I ever had or wanted to replace the 800s. Would it be worth it to me ? I highly doubt it. One thing I just got the other day was a Shunyata’ Delani 6000S V2 power conditioner to add to my system. 

Cool thread. Some of the replies are entertaining. I’ll throw another funny one in…I’ll stop by, bring a 6 pack and listen to your system to tell you what the weakest link is.

all jokes aside, you have assembled one kick ass rig! If I was to be picky I’d say the speakers but man that’s stretching it. Those B&Ws are old but they kick butt. Wilsons will give you more resolution and more natural more refined sound but is it worth making such a major change if everything is tied together so well? Pretty sure changing speakers will trigger other changes. 

Room would be another honorable mention for an improvement but you’re already working within pretty much the boundaries there…only so much you can do. 
 

Two subwoofers.  One minimum.

No turntable equals missing out, for my money. What’s your front end, strictly digital?

your speakers are ancient so we would recommend you start with loudspeakers

 

then upgrade your cables straightwire cables are not as transparent or holographic vs newer designs

this is truly high level stuff and looking at the photos I see the cables on the floor. Isn't there some principle to elevate those? Just curious...

i am sure they work...

I cannot afford them though...

But my homemade recipe work well for me ...i will not pay many hundred dollars for 150 bucks  speakers ...😊

But i discovered long ago that many people upgrade their gear  without being conscious of the huge negative effect of vibrations/resonance  on speakers as much as on turntable ...

The main point of interest is nevermind the means used, vibrations/resonance problems rival electrical noise floor problems in impact but they are more underscored or adressed and often  with the wrong products ..

 

Just to add a bit of a twist, I have found the Critical Mass footers underneath my components to be a real eye opener.

ozzy

Just to add a bit of a twist, I have found the Critical Mass footers underneath my components to be a real eye opener.

ozzy

@tattooedtrackman 

And happy holidays to you and yours.

@curiousjim  Thank you for your reply. As far as u said that I was defending my system I was just replying back. Agree to disagree. And I do respect everyone’s opinions. This is exactly what I wanted to hear from you all. I do appreciate everyone’s input. Happy holidays. 

@vthokie83  Thank you for your reply. If u look at my virtual system I do use Furutech GTX-D R   Oyaide WPC Z2  and Z. 

Apologies.  I truly am dyslexic.  Had to overcome it when young. Still happened.  DSD not SDS.  

Apologies.  I truly am dyslexic.  Had to overcome it when young. Still happened.  DSD not SDS.

 

You are not alone ...

Apologies.  I truly am dyslexic.  Had to overcome it when young. Still happened.  DSD not SDS.  

You have an excellent system where you have given attention to detail.  As already mentioned by other members I see two weak links as follows:   
1:  Power conditioning. This was one of the largest improvements realized with my own system.  I recommend top of the line models from Shunyata or Audience.  I would do this first. 
2:  DAC/Streamer:  Your AR CDP is phenomenal. However, a good DAC/Streamer will reduce noise inherent in CD playback and will have more modern DAC design for higher resolution formats and SDS.  There have been many improvements in SQ and PRAT over the past few years.  While I have personally not had budget to improve my DAC/Streamer to date it is planned.  I auditioned a few.  My favorites in order are Mola Mola Tambaqui, DCS Bartok, and Bricasti M1 Series 2.  I recommend Aurender or Lumen as a music server even though the mentioned DACs stream. 
 

 

OP,

Your rig seems excellent, not sure I see much there.....especially since you updated us on your power updates. I do have two recommendations if you have not done them:

(1) Use high quality power receptacles. These made more of a difference than any power cable upgrade I made, and I have thoroughly tested a bunch and can recommend three: Furutech GTX-D(G) gold, Furutech GTX-D(R) rhodium, and Oyaide R1 (Not the SWX-??? series). The Furutech rhodium is more revealing and forward of neutral, while the gold is more laid back and warm of neutral.

(2) Look at GIK Acoustics for room treatment. They have really attractive diffusers and absorption panels, that will fit most rooms....and in my case, meet my wife's approval. Mike Major was a great help, and helped with free with using their free analyzing software and design.

The only thing I see there is trying to optimize speaker/room(damping/diffusion) and using the "best" recording of music available. 

After that, it's just spending money on audiophool extravagance-not that there's anything wrong with that.

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@tattooedtrackman 

Just an observation.  You asked the group to suggest what your weakest link in your system was and all you have done is to defend your system. 
 

BTW, You have a killer system!

IMO, the weakest link in your system is not your speakers but the source.  While AR makes very good components, the CDP and the preamp are IMO above average but not my cup of tea. In our recent experience with a REF 10 preamp, it displayed a pretty good mid-range but lacked to our ears high end refinement.  Base was nice but overall not that special compared to other components we were repairing.  BUT then again if that is the sound you are looking for, then be happy with what you have.  We do not find the AR components that open sounding, they lack 3D soundstage, smaller sound presentation, and do not provide the tone of instruments to our liking.

We are not saying that they are bad, but we have found other manufacturer components better sounding to our ears that WE prefer.  You may feel completely satisfied and that is what really matters.

 

Streaming far better then CDs when setup properly without allthe hassles 

and 1,000s of. More choices at your finger tips.

I am 65 now but have been streaming for 4 years now ,once you get past the expense and learning curve it’s easy .

Mad Scientist Audio's Graphene Contact Enhancer took my system to a whole new level of enjoyment.

highly recommended

@audioman58   I really do like my Straightwire Crescendos for the bass attack it has. I really didn’t think they are very low quality for my system. After all they are the top of the line from Straightwire. Also I have always been thinking of a power conditioner /  surge protector. I did a lot of reading and watching videos on utube about the AQ Niagara 5000. I really do like it but I am not sure if I should use it with my ARC Ref 750s. Even though there are 4 HC outlets. I will have to talk to ARC about that. And if I can’t use it with my amps im really not sure if it’s worth getting for just my preamp , CDP and equalizer. Also btw I do have all dedicated lines for my components. 

Your preamp is fine I thought it was a sp9

Cables are very low quality vs your system ,

thatswhy the WireworldEclipse system cables would ge aBig step up ,

also you need a quality line conditioner like a AQ Niagra 5000

and Thunder power cords a Huge step up !!

“ I definitely will be looking into room treatments.”

Bass traps. Start with REW measurements, get a really good handle on what’s going on from 100hz down and target your corrections with the appropriate bass traps. 

“ Yes my room isn’t the best”

There is your answer

@audioman58  My Preamp way outdated ?  Are u kidding me ? Nope. I will never stream. That’s not for me. 

No streaming ?  Your preamp way outdated , wires could use a upgrade for the monies Wire world Eclipse system cables , perrotta consulting 

gives good deals and a Major step up and a great deal .

@salc Thank for the reply. Personally I feel like I am not missing anything in my system. My last upgrade was the ARC Ref CD9 replacing the Rega ISIS CDP. And that brand new just came out last month the McIntosh MQ112 equalizer.  Just wanted your guys opinions on my weakest link. And it definitely looks like the room acoustics and room. But room is what it is. So I can only treat it according. 

@mapman Thanks for the suggestion. But my ears will decide if and  how and where and when to tweak using my MQ112.  

Hey you can surely do some good things with that equalizer. Room EQ Wizard on a device with half decent mike can be used to gen pink noise and measure then use eq to correct accordingly. Tweak by playing music, listening for say bass issues, identifying where those are with the meter and correcting. Roon also has parametric eq filters you can tweak manually. Good luck!

Perhaps it comes down to what’s missing for you. That usually leads me to the next upgrade. what more you would like, more warmth, detail, sound stage, layering, extension upper or lower, etc. I know the ARC equipment plays very well with Magnepan 20.7s. Note Maggies are a personnel preference

You have to ask Anne Robinson or Jane Lynch.

Frame of mind when listening, perceptions and of course psychoacoustics.  

Not sure if you’ve tried decoupling the preamp and CD player from the maple. As an experiment, try a set of Nobsound springs instead of the feet. 3 or 4 under the chassis. $30. I have found it opens up the soundstage with enhanced spacial depth and further detachment from the speakers. Adjust number of springs in each unit for 30-50% compression. 

OP,

 

From what you said Wilson Alexx sounds like a good choice.

@mapman  Yes I know but really not interested in a room correction. I do have the brand new McIntosh MQ112 equalizer that just came out a few months ago. 

@jacobsdad2000 Please expand on your comment. 

I know the weakest link in my system is me. 

The other newer and often now more practical and overall effective option to address acoustics is digital room correction with DSP. It can be done in software for example with Roon or via hardware.

Thank you everyone. I am very happy with my current system and yes I definitely agree that the room and acoustics are the weakest link. The room is what it is. Can’t change that but I definitely will be looking into room treatments. It will be a very hard room to treat but will also be fun.Happy holidays!!! 

@ghdprentice  BTW. I really love classic rock and pop. R n B. Little bit of classical and county. If I was gonna look at different speakers It would be the Wilson Alexx V. Happy holidays!! 

That’s all good stuff that should work well together where in most cases the weakest link ends up being the room and room acoustics. 

I don't see a tube tester in your list of equipment!

OP, Yes, I understand.