Weakest link in my system

You have a great system. But the answer is:

The B&W 800 speakers.

 

I own Audio Research Reference 6SE preamp, Reference CD9Se, Reference 160 amps … and in my home theater B&W 805 matrix speakers and B&W 800 series subwoofers.

 

These are all great components. The Matrix have a specific sound and are ancient.

There are so many astonishing good speakers. But the question is, where do you want to go. What music do you love… what do you like about your current system? There are many more sophisticated speakers on the market today. Your electronics are simply first rate.

Hopefully we can point you in the right direction. Then you can then audition some. Budget? I am guessing $30K to $60K?

 

I am thinking there are four ways to go:

Hyper detailed / holographic: Magico / Wilson

Natural / musical: Sonus Faber

Rock out: Contemporary B&W

 

Alternative: Ribbon / Electrostatic.

I just glanced at your system...

I am not a high end specialist but it seems stunning ...

 

All that seems top product to me...😊 Congratulations! Very beautiful ...

 

Anyway the only problem if you have one is not the gear but the room/speakers relation ...The drivers of these speakers are many feet apart ... Your best listening position must be at some distance...I dont see your listening position distance on your virtual page ...Your speakers are 6 feet high and your ceiling is 9 feet...It seems to pose some problem to me ...

I am not an acoustician and i cannot advise you without being there with my ears though ... A pro acoustician will help you without being there  just seeing ...Dont upgrade consult one ...

i am curious and i will like to hear your system ...

Congratulations really beautiful !

Great observation by steakster which i concur with ...😊

@ghdprentice Don’t let these speakers fool you. They still have a phenomenal soundstage, Bass , impact , dynamics , imaging. And will still beat many many speakers of today. U would have to pay about 6x the cost of these used to beat them. If u haven’t already seen this utube video of these. I would check it out.  Utube.  B&W Matrix 800.  Title.  A B&W speaker you have never heard about. The Matrix 800. Mikes room. By Thomas and stereo. 

Huh????     That looks like a killer system.....

@mahgister   Yes my room isn’t the best but it is my dedicated listening room. Still sounds very good though. Oh and my listening position is 12 ft from my speakers slightly toed in  

 

 

@steakster  I am running 4 dedicated lines. 2 I believe are 30 amp lines for my two amps and 2 20 amp line for my preamp and CDP. I don’t believe I will benefit from a power conditioner. It might even degrade the sound with my components. JMO. 

I didn't see, or see any comments about, room treatment.

My recommendation would be to place some panels at the first reflection points on the walls and ceiling if you haven't done that yet.

I recently treated my room. It was inexpensive and yielded results far beyond the cost. I thought it wasn't necessary, or wouldn't matter much, and I was wrong. The treatments transformed the sound in a very positive way.

Nice system!!!

 

It seems relatively good as a listening position but perhaps a bit more far would be better in my opinion ... Anyway i am not there and then my advices had not much value ...And you had certainly tried few other positions ..😊

I am very happy to congratulate you for your system ... And nevermind any acoustic problem or not i like your room and your system ...😊

I will only gave my impression . i am not competent to judge others, but i would also have chosen other speakers type and form because of the heights of the room ...But if i read you they sound already great then room treatment will be fun to experiment with ... I had fun doing it ...

 

As said jperry treatment go a long road but we must listen carefully to pick the place and right timing and right quantity ...

 

A very experimented acoustician knowing speakers would be a good invested money consultation ...

 

I wish you the best Christmas ever for you and your family ..

 

 

tattooedtrackman OP

745 posts

12-15-2023 at 11:47pm

@mahgister Yes my room isn’t the best but it is my dedicated listening room. Still sounds very good though. Oh and my listening position is 12 ft from my speakers slightly toed in

OP, Yes, I understand.

I don't see a tube tester in your list of equipment!

That’s all good stuff that should work well together where in most cases the weakest link ends up being the room and room acoustics. 

@ghdprentice  BTW. I really love classic rock and pop. R n B. Little bit of classical and county. If I was gonna look at different speakers It would be the Wilson Alexx V. Happy holidays!! 

Thank you everyone. I am very happy with my current system and yes I definitely agree that the room and acoustics are the weakest link. The room is what it is. Can’t change that but I definitely will be looking into room treatments. It will be a very hard room to treat but will also be fun.Happy holidays!!! 

The other newer and often now more practical and overall effective option to address acoustics is digital room correction with DSP. It can be done in software for example with Roon or via hardware.

I know the weakest link in my system is me. 

@jacobsdad2000 Please expand on your comment. 

@mapman  Yes I know but really not interested in a room correction. I do have the brand new McIntosh MQ112 equalizer that just came out a few months ago. 

OP,

 

From what you said Wilson Alexx sounds like a good choice.

Not sure if you’ve tried decoupling the preamp and CD player from the maple. As an experiment, try a set of Nobsound springs instead of the feet. 3 or 4 under the chassis. $30. I have found it opens up the soundstage with enhanced spacial depth and further detachment from the speakers. Adjust number of springs in each unit for 30-50% compression. 

Frame of mind when listening, perceptions and of course psychoacoustics.  

You have to ask Anne Robinson or Jane Lynch.

Perhaps it comes down to what’s missing for you. That usually leads me to the next upgrade. what more you would like, more warmth, detail, sound stage, layering, extension upper or lower, etc. I know the ARC equipment plays very well with Magnepan 20.7s. Note Maggies are a personnel preference

Hey you can surely do some good things with that equalizer. Room EQ Wizard on a device with half decent mike can be used to gen pink noise and measure then use eq to correct accordingly. Tweak by playing music, listening for say bass issues, identifying where those are with the meter and correcting. Roon also has parametric eq filters you can tweak manually. Good luck!

@mapman Thanks for the suggestion. But my ears will decide if and  how and where and when to tweak using my MQ112.  

@salc Thank for the reply. Personally I feel like I am not missing anything in my system. My last upgrade was the ARC Ref CD9 replacing the Rega ISIS CDP. And that brand new just came out last month the McIntosh MQ112 equalizer.  Just wanted your guys opinions on my weakest link. And it definitely looks like the room acoustics and room. But room is what it is. So I can only treat it according. 

No streaming ?  Your preamp way outdated , wires could use a upgrade for the monies Wire world Eclipse system cables , perrotta consulting 

gives good deals and a Major step up and a great deal .

@audioman58  My Preamp way outdated ?  Are u kidding me ? Nope. I will never stream. That’s not for me. 

“ Yes my room isn’t the best”

There is your answer

“ I definitely will be looking into room treatments.”

Bass traps. Start with REW measurements, get a really good handle on what’s going on from 100hz down and target your corrections with the appropriate bass traps. 

Your preamp is fine I thought it was a sp9

Cables are very low quality vs your system ,

thatswhy the WireworldEclipse system cables would ge aBig step up ,

also you need a quality line conditioner like a AQ Niagra 5000

and Thunder power cords a Huge step up !!

@audioman58   I really do like my Straightwire Crescendos for the bass attack it has. I really didn’t think they are very low quality for my system. After all they are the top of the line from Straightwire. Also I have always been thinking of a power conditioner /  surge protector. I did a lot of reading and watching videos on utube about the AQ Niagara 5000. I really do like it but I am not sure if I should use it with my ARC Ref 750s. Even though there are 4 HC outlets. I will have to talk to ARC about that. And if I can’t use it with my amps im really not sure if it’s worth getting for just my preamp , CDP and equalizer. Also btw I do have all dedicated lines for my components. 

Mad Scientist Audio's Graphene Contact Enhancer took my system to a whole new level of enjoyment.

highly recommended

Streaming far better then CDs when setup properly without allthe hassles 

and 1,000s of. More choices at your finger tips.

I am 65 now but have been streaming for 4 years now ,once you get past the expense and learning curve it’s easy .

IMO, the weakest link in your system is not your speakers but the source.  While AR makes very good components, the CDP and the preamp are IMO above average but not my cup of tea. In our recent experience with a REF 10 preamp, it displayed a pretty good mid-range but lacked to our ears high end refinement.  Base was nice but overall not that special compared to other components we were repairing.  BUT then again if that is the sound you are looking for, then be happy with what you have.  We do not find the AR components that open sounding, they lack 3D soundstage, smaller sound presentation, and do not provide the tone of instruments to our liking.

We are not saying that they are bad, but we have found other manufacturer components better sounding to our ears that WE prefer.  You may feel completely satisfied and that is what really matters.

 

@tattooedtrackman 

Just an observation.  You asked the group to suggest what your weakest link in your system was and all you have done is to defend your system. 
 

BTW, You have a killer system!

The only thing I see there is trying to optimize speaker/room(damping/diffusion) and using the "best" recording of music available. 

After that, it's just spending money on audiophool extravagance-not that there's anything wrong with that.

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OP,

Your rig seems excellent, not sure I see much there.....especially since you updated us on your power updates. I do have two recommendations if you have not done them:

(1) Use high quality power receptacles. These made more of a difference than any power cable upgrade I made, and I have thoroughly tested a bunch and can recommend three: Furutech GTX-D(G) gold, Furutech GTX-D(R) rhodium, and Oyaide R1 (Not the SWX-??? series). The Furutech rhodium is more revealing and forward of neutral, while the gold is more laid back and warm of neutral.

(2) Look at GIK Acoustics for room treatment. They have really attractive diffusers and absorption panels, that will fit most rooms....and in my case, meet my wife's approval. Mike Major was a great help, and helped with free with using their free analyzing software and design.

You have an excellent system where you have given attention to detail.  As already mentioned by other members I see two weak links as follows:   
1:  Power conditioning. This was one of the largest improvements realized with my own system.  I recommend top of the line models from Shunyata or Audience.  I would do this first. 
2:  DAC/Streamer:  Your AR CDP is phenomenal. However, a good DAC/Streamer will reduce noise inherent in CD playback and will have more modern DAC design for higher resolution formats and SDS.  There have been many improvements in SQ and PRAT over the past few years.  While I have personally not had budget to improve my DAC/Streamer to date it is planned.  I auditioned a few.  My favorites in order are Mola Mola Tambaqui, DCS Bartok, and Bricasti M1 Series 2.  I recommend Aurender or Lumen as a music server even though the mentioned DACs stream. 
 

 

Apologies.  I truly am dyslexic.  Had to overcome it when young. Still happened.  DSD not SDS.  

Apologies.  I truly am dyslexic.  Had to overcome it when young. Still happened.  DSD not SDS.

 

You are not alone ...

Apologies.  I truly am dyslexic.  Had to overcome it when young. Still happened.  DSD not SDS.  

@vthokie83  Thank you for your reply. If u look at my virtual system I do use Furutech GTX-D R   Oyaide WPC Z2  and Z. 

@curiousjim  Thank you for your reply. As far as u said that I was defending my system I was just replying back. Agree to disagree. And I do respect everyone’s opinions. This is exactly what I wanted to hear from you all. I do appreciate everyone’s input. Happy holidays. 

@tattooedtrackman 

And happy holidays to you and yours.

Just to add a bit of a twist, I have found the Critical Mass footers underneath my components to be a real eye opener.

ozzy

i am sure they work...

I cannot afford them though...

But my homemade recipe work well for me ...i will not pay many hundred dollars for 150 bucks  speakers ...😊

But i discovered long ago that many people upgrade their gear  without being conscious of the huge negative effect of vibrations/resonance  on speakers as much as on turntable ...

The main point of interest is nevermind the means used, vibrations/resonance problems rival electrical noise floor problems in impact but they are more underscored or adressed and often  with the wrong products ..

 

Just to add a bit of a twist, I have found the Critical Mass footers underneath my components to be a real eye opener.

ozzy

this is truly high level stuff and looking at the photos I see the cables on the floor. Isn't there some principle to elevate those? Just curious...

your speakers are ancient so we would recommend you start with loudspeakers

 

then upgrade your cables straightwire cables are not as transparent or holographic vs newer designs