Update on good Ethernet switch

I’ve been tossing the idea around for a while of a LHY SW8, but was going to upgrade my streamer first. But with funds not yet available for this, I pushed the button on the LHY.

Stupidly, I forgot about the Chinese New Year Celebrations, and ordered it at the start, DOH! It should be shipped next week

After much deliberation, I’ve decided to purchase an Uptone Audio EtherREGEN Gen2 when it becomes available around April.

This is not an accurate statement and if you do your research there are others in the same price range. 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806321088581.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=19623912707&albag=&trgt=&crea=en3256806321088581&netw=x&device=c&albpg=&albpd=en3256806321088581&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA2pyuBhBKEiwApLaIOwZE8l0L36uO2NXSAzhlNiiDKUmmzaZTPov5FYC_GNgR4zaf8gC33BoCiMUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=e4c0ef76cf184ab892ad530a48a3c98a-1707592910544-04889-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=e4c0ef76cf184ab892ad530a48a3c98a-1707592910544-04889-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=66999703fffa40c0a335d5e51e696a3d&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Linear power supply  Nobody else has this and inside you can upgrade the fuse making it better still ,I forgot the exact size it’s been awhile I used a synergistic purple, and you need a decent power cord ,for the $$ the Pangea awg14 sig MK-2 

For the $$ you will not find a better Ethernet switch then this one

seee down on the page Audiogon doesnot like links

this has low noise regulators, OCXO over controlled master clock

Linear power supply  Nobody else has this and inside you can upgrade the fuse making it better still ,I forgot the exact size it’s been awhile I used a synergistic purple, and you need a decent power cord ,for the $$ the Pangea awg14 sig MK-2 

for $200 perfect , and BTW  on your router that garbage $5/ wall wart has to go - pure noise ,buy a LPS much much quieter if you stream Linear Tube Audio has them for $50 off on Audiogon  a must for a serious Audiophile , there are cheaper but quality built and best I have found this one and comes with a great DC  cable to router others charge $150 for and btw it takes a 5 amp 20 mm long Slow blow fuse .Hifi tuning supreme gold $90 or synergistic purple $195. I couldnot be happier.

I read everywhere the LHY SWs are at the same level if not superior to pricier switches. Is this valid when comparing other switches without an external LPS?

I’m deciding between the SW6 and the Sotm SNH10G with a Jcat OPTIMO 3 duo LPS. Any advice from who’s been in a similar situation?

In the audio gatherings I attended it’s been proven , start with your router 

digital noise travels even house to house the garbage $5 wall wart added even more noise . Ibought a Linear Tube Audio LPS powersupply and it is a substantial upgrade, if you have a separate modem,router  get rid of it Way outdated and added noise a combo unit only. I bought the newer Motorola 8702 which has docsis 3.1 bigger faster processor, all hard wired, but even wifi picture sharper ,I assume because of the great LPS cleaning up the power supply.,this unit has excellent build quality,being a ex audio dealer and 

rebuild Loudspeaker Xovers I know Audio parts on all equipment very well.this unit comes with a excellent DC cable ,others charge $150 for for $50 off on Audiogon $700 it’s a true bargain ,don’t forget a Good Ethernet cable does count ,the most important at the streamer . Trust me ,if you stream and follow this you will hear a very nice improvement.

China where it is made. 

The LHT sw8 Ethernet switch runs Cool !

i highly recommend at some point for sure a Decent power cord like the Pangea Sig MK-2 awg14 for around $200 a great value using Cardas best 6-9s Copper

and a Synergistic research Purple fuse these2 complement this for even better resolution and smoothness.

The LHT sw8 Ethernet switch runs Cool !

i highly recommend at some point for sure a Decent power cord like the Pangea Sig MK-2 awg14 for around $200 a great value using Cardas best 6-9s Copper

and a Synergistic research Purple fuse these2 complement this for even better resolution and smoothness.

Ok, where is the best place to buy the LHY SW6? AliExpress is $565….much less, but may have hidden import fees? Maybe not, as it is under the $800 threshold for the fees to apply.  
 

$800 is more than I want to pay from the US distributor. No discounts available from the US dealer.

For my home network, I use a managed tp link switch which is more expensive than unmanaged, as well as a mikrotik 24 port manged switch router.

A couple of things about ethernet. The ethernet standard is that cat 5e cable will support gigabit up to 100 meters. A switch will tend to clean up incoming frames by re-generating them.

There are two main TCP/IP protocols: TCP and UDP. TCP sits on top of the lower levels of the stack and will monitor sequence numbers of incoming packets/frames and will request re-transmission if a missing packet is detected. In this manner it is a lossless protocol. The UDP protocol is a broadcast protocol as it simply passes frames along with best efforts, and has no mechanism for detecting and correcting errors.

As mentioned above, at the switching layer 2--frames that fail the crc check are discarded with no notification to the layers above it. UDP has lower overhead than TCP and is often used for media output that is generally thought to be tolerant of missing data... O:

One can’t know the protocol used unless the vendor of the source data machine puts it in the specs, or you can run a sniffer like wireshark and see what is going on.

All this is leading to the idea that if music is sent over the network using a broadcast protocol like udp, there could be some variability in data quality depending on the hardware and quality of network connections and so forth.

These concepts apply to wireless as well except that layer 2 for that is using radio waves instead of a wire. I don’t have enough knowledge about wireless to opine on the reliability and frequency of lost packets--but if UDP is the higher level protocol, still not going to ensure complete transmission of data.

* I don’t want to get into the deets of the tcp/stack, so I am using frames, packets,and segments interchangeably to get the concepts across, though if one digs into the network stack, these names have specific meanings and must be kept accurate.

Uptone is working on a new Etherregen; meanwhile the first one is available again, isloation mode and 10m clock compatible. 

Here's a new, lower priced option, from LHY:

https://www.beatechnik.com/fmc

LHY now has the SW-6. Despite the lower product numbering this sits between the SW-8 and SW-10 and I believe it will even be superior to the later because its not repurposing cheap commercial switch hardware - it's a custom board design.

To my knowledge the only other switch that is custom built for audiophile considerations is by Nordost and its very expensive. Even those crazy expensive Ansuz switches use commercial boards inside.

Because the SW-6 is a custom made board the clock is now located right where it needs to be rather than on a daughter board. Also one output has dedicated isolation from the other 4. It has a SPF connection as well if you want to do optical.

@mc1969 , the best ethernet cables I've had are made by Audioquest. 

The switch doesnot run that warm at all 

and thanks for the damping tips.

@recklesskelly does the Teradak come with SFP cages / ability to swap SFPs or are they internally fixed? Assuming the latter. Which end do you use the Teradak on - the send (router/WAN) or receive (streamer) end?

@audioman58 I’ve had the SW-8 switch since December. It sounds very good in stock form and can be improved further. I have a ground box attached to its chassis along with a couple of sheets of fo.Q damping material on top (which is actually adjacent to the upside down mounted circuit board attached to the top). It responds well to both - the addition of either is easily audible in my moderately resolving system. Soundstage opens up, residual glare fades, vocals become more full bodied, palpable. The reverse is true on their removal. Similarly putting even the affordable Netgear GS108E switch upstream had the effect of slightly tightening up the soundstage focus.

The Alpha Audio guys did a group test of switches late last year including the SW-8 where the only variable was the switch used. With a good pair of headphones it’s not hard to hear the character of the differences between the SW-8 and the other switches - even with YT’s compression.

supra and ghent

DHLabs.

May be a silly question but what ethernet cables are people using? 

@tonywinga , I would recommend decoupling/isolation with a pair of fiber media converters (FMCs/SFP transceivers) and a fiber patch cable in between. Use a low noise lps or similar for the decoupled FMC. Thereafter, use a good ethernet cable from the likes of Audioquest from the decoupled FMC to streamer, etc.

It is a more effective approach with very discernable results than spending on these snake oil priced ethernet switches.

made a few modifications to our system and have integrated the TaraDak S212 SFP and had to use the FTLF1318P3BTL 1.25Gb/s RoHS Compliant 1310nm SFP Transceiver replacing my 10G cages and transceivers. I will say the OXCO clock in this devise is very beneficial in reducing jitter and this setup with S212 is a performance upgrade to my digital FEU than just going fiber alone. More details to come as the S212 is in my system longer. Very impressed with the $$$ to performance level. All said well under $500.00 for the upgraded S212, FTLF1318P3BTL, Cage and cables. Supra CAT 8 and OCFO.

Just received my TearaDac TS 212 and will need to step down to. 1g SFP as 10G will not work with this switch. More to come Sunday and will compare to my 10G SFP+ setup. Low risk investment at $250 with oxo clock. 

@fthompson251

Wifi router to optical adapter via Ethernet.
Optical out to modded Cisco 2960 switch (which has optical in).
Switch to streamer.

I have a couple of Teradak linear power supplies. One I’ll use on my modem. They are decent power supplies. Certainly have an okay reputation in audio.

I will probably look to get one of these at the end of the year (Puritan PSM156 first).

@jerrybj   How does this T-S212 work? Ethernet signal in and out of the same box to filter it and lower noise floor or do you need 2 of them connected on both ends?

https://kamaudio.com/TeraDak-T-S211-media-converter

https://kamaudio.com/TeraDak-T-S212-SFP-media-converter

@jerrybj 

thanks for the tip 

@kennyc 

Teradak has a couple of all-in-one solutions as well

Not sure if off topic, but I’m guessing many are interested in audiophile switches to reduce noise.  

Fiber isolation has been favored by many to reduce noise, but I’m hesitant as I’m not fond of visual setup and some say that fiber may degrade sonics.  If I do try fiber isolation, I like the one box solution:

https://ediscreation.com/product/fiber-box/

via email correspondence to Network Acoustics:

I can confirm we are launching a new reference switch and timing-wise we are still on target for June and if you’d like to kept up to date I can add you to our newsletter.

 

In the meantime, i can give you some headlines:

 

• 6 x universal 1Gb/s rj45 ports
• 2 x dedicated 100mb/s rj45 ports
• 4 x SFP ports
• Features proprietary power and ethernet filtering systems
• Case machined out single piece of Aluminium and available in silver or black
• Supplied with our own reference 12 v power supply developed specifically for the switch.
• Dimensions: 300 (w) x 47 (h) x 215mm (d)
• Guide Price £3500 (final price TBC
• Free worldwide Fedex express shipping
• 30 Money back “try-it-at” home no quibble guarantee.

@kennyc : According to the Network Acoustics website, the Rubicon network switch is no lomger available. Do you have any info on this that's not been published?

Bottom line, we don’t know what to measure and/or there’s a poor correlation to what we can measure and what we “subjectively” like to hear.  Measurements are no substitute for demoing to find what “you” like.  Our hearing acuity is much more complex than current science can measure.

Some come on this forum expecting us to “prove it” before they may even consider (if at all) to purchase.  Many don’t bother to try themselves which is the only way to find “their sonic preferences”.  
 

Also, a few seem to have preconceived notions such as “it’s false until proven true”, “it’s true until proven false “, “my reasoning is universal truth for all”, “my perception is universal truth for all”.  
I simply look at the information, and if enough people are experiencing improvements with an audio component or tweak, then “chances are” I’ll get a similar result- there are no guarantees.

For network switches, I’ll probably settle with Network Acoustics’ switch, filter, cable.  I also read good things about Synergistic Research switch and Ethernet cable.  Reports that additional switches have offer sonic upticks but at diminishing returns.  Not sure if I want to spend additional $ down this rabbit hole.  I’m not a fan of messy looking extra eternal linear power supplies, external master clocks, and the cabling needed for them.  

I love analog audio logic applied to not just digital audio, but network stacks and data transmission protocols. My car works a lot better when I feed her sugar cubes and loosen up the bridle too.

Edit:  Ok that was uncivil.  I had a rough day and now I feel better.  But sorry.  

@ghasley Heh heh. I agree that many of my larger audio expenditures were accompanied by a good amount of jitter on my part.  I just don’t wanna hear it is all.

It all matters in audio. Besides, if part of a $1 million wire transfer arrives a little late but still arrives, its still money. If parts of your music arrive a little late....who knows right? I can state emphatically though that large amounts of money with embedded jitter causes some trepidation when trying to spend it.

I am not arguing that you don’t hear a difference. But why are you hearing that difference? Anyone have any insight to that? What does that audiophile quality switch do that makes it better?

@charliech What you’re completely missing here is noise, among other things, which is critical in an audio application and not as much in industrial applications. Add a better linear power supply to a switch, router, or streamer and you’ll almost certainly get notably better sound quality than using an onboard SMPS. Also, audiophile switches, streamers, etc. employ other components to keep noise, jitter, etc. to an absolute minimum because in streaming minimizing noise and using better clocks is huge. Full stop. I know on its face it seems a bit odd that these things should make such a significant difference in getting better sound, but they just do and there’s really no getting around it. Embrace it or deny it, that’s entirely up to you.

You all know that banks and the military all depend on the exact same network protocols that we use to stream music, right?  And the switching and routing technology is all based on the same protocols. 

If the data was altered in any way in transit, the numbers would be off.  There are billions of financial transactions that occur (probably daily) involving billions of dollars and if the numbers didn't match our banking system would collapse (because you wouldn't trust it).  

Professional switches and routers are built to handle more simultaneous data, or have more ports, or have better management capabilities, plus you pay for the vendor's support which is crucial when something goes wrong.  But a nice Cisco switch is going to follow the same protocols that the cheap Linksys switch follows because, ultimately, you need to be able to connect one to the other and have them work.  And they do!  Because the ISPs, the backbone carriers, and whoever is hosting Qobuz or Tidal is using those very expensive Cisco switches (or some other enterprise-level brand) and many of their subscribers are using Linksys (or TP Link or whatever). 

There are a LOT of switches/routers between Qobuz or Tidal and your streamer.  Qobuz is NOT using some esoteric audiophile router/switch because their IT needs to be able to get 24/7 support from vendor experts if anything goes down.  

The data in a TCP stream arrives exactly as it was sent.  However, if you lose packets, you can have problems and that is a real issue, but packet loss is most likely going to occur on the Internet between the Qobuz servers and your ISP router and not on your internal network.  But it could.  And wireless adds a whole other avenue for things to go wrong where the data has challenges getting from the transmitter to the receiver.  But if the data gets from the sender to the receiver, it should be exactly the same ones and zeros.

So what I'm saying is that, as long as your network is working like it is supposed to (and better hardware can help ensure that), it should transparently transport the sound.  Better hardware could help make sure that the data gets transmitted properly.  I suppose. 

I am not arguing that you don't hear a difference.  But why are you hearing that difference?  Anyone have any insight to that?  What does that audiophile quality switch do that makes it better?  Do they guarantee no packet loss? 

I guess in the end if it sounds better to you, than that is all that matters.  And that is fine.  It's like buying a more expensive rack to support your gear just because it looks nicer than another one.  Perfectly valid.  But at least you know why the nicer rack is nicer.  I think the challenge here is that no one can quantify why those switches sound better.  

The LHY-8 switch has a bunch more inside then the eastern electric switch 

we compared them and loooked inside for your monies nothing better under $1k 

@jerrybj Thanks!  You addressed and resolved both of my concerns with actual experience!

jjss49

... when ’one trick pony’ trolls like this come on forums and denounce the value of certain hifi gear based on their 'experience' elsewhere, argue endlessly and defensively, i believe the net result is actually more interest is developed in the thing they are putting down ...

That's true in my case. Once I got serious about audio streaming, I had an ethernet line installed to run to my streamer and I've been very pleased with the results. But I may try one of these switches on a 30-day return guarantee - after all, I've been surprised with audio experiment results in the past. But until I have that experience, I don't challenge what others say they hear.

I do think there's nothing like a hard wired network. There's also nothing like a pro who knows how to snake wires - I've been amazed at what they've been able to do in my house. It's really not that expensive and it eliminates a lot of potential issues.

@txp1 

I had a problem where I was unable to run ethernet to my system.

One suggestion was using a wifi extender, and then its ethernet out to my streamer. I did this successfully, and it was an improvement over wifi transmission to the streamer.

Since the improvement was audible, I then bought mid priced/reasonable quality ethernet cables. Meicord Opal on the modem/router end, and Triode Wire Labs Freedom on the streamer end.

From what I read on different forums, your best ethernet cables should be last in the chain.

The best advice he gave?

People like me should ’stand in the corner and bang their head against the wall’, for believing switches, ethernet cables, power cables, pricier Dacs make a difference.

I may be a crocodile, but at least I’m not a dinosaur like him.

Not cake hole again? 

Arafiq, you are right.  I know I shouldn’t but I do it in jest- except for my tirade about my work days it’s fun banter but I guess I need to stop.

My previous experience with ~$1K switches was rather meh. I tried English Electric 8Switch and EtherRegen and was underwhelmed. I had all but written off switches but a recent experience with the Ansuz power switch and a Telgartner M12 switch (borrowed from a local friend) convinced me otherwise. Like most things, the difference is not night and day but once you experience the positive changes it's kinda hard to go back. Based on my experience, you really need to go higher up in the food chain to realize the benefits of audiophile grade switches. But, who knows, perhaps the SW8 switch is as good as the more expensive ones?

@tonywinga No need to feed the trolls. They will simply never try anything different and continue to overstate the 'reach' of their knowledge. Remember the cable wars? You don't hear much about them anymore, right? 

You know, I was an Engineering Manager for many years. The four letters that caused me the most headaches were HR and IT. HR, well I won’t go there but IT had two favorite phrases: "We can’t" and "You can’t". They have developed a culture of oppression in the corporate world and so it should be no surprise that they would migrate to these forums to spread their oppressive culture.

I retired and still can't get away from them.  

PS.  My home network is great and reliable.  What was all the fuss about at work?

Oh, another sun starved worker from the IT Crowd here to mock us.  

Do you guys ever do work or just entertain yourselves with these forums all day?

I recall an IT worker around 1990 at work who liked to play DOOM.  With a keystroke his screen would jump back to DOS.

@rjmcinnis 

Please save your breath.  I understand your frustration.  I have also worked with networking 20+ years and you are trying to teach calculus to crocodiles here.

Save your breath.

I only visit this site to have a good laugh these days and that is all.

If any of you guys maybe considering this SW-8 Ethernet switch contact me and see the size picture-difference between a netgear switch 4 lbs vs 8 Oz .and any other info .

I just upgraded the power cord  the synergistic fuse I already have in my 12v LPS to my Motorola  8702 modem- router which is a nice Sonic upgrade vs the stock wall wart.but This new switch with power cord and much less $$ Hifi tuning supreme fuse which I already had a 1.25 amp slow blow  fuse  well worth the purchase and iowned several Audiophile switches