Basic switch....should I upgrade?

I use a Netgear router via WiFi  to a Netgear wall wart extender with Ethernet cable to a EtherRegen and cable to my streamer. My streamer / digital end sounds as good as my really good vinyl rig.

Everything matters, but at the level of performance I currently am experiencing, I am very happy. Maybe I’ll play with it someday. I am enjoying the music right now.
 

I can’t advise on a better switch, but to bring the D-Link to its potential it needs a better power supply than supplied. An iFi iPower 5v will do just fine. Also, be sure to ground the unit using the screw on the back.

I assume you’re using a DGS105 or similar.  Apparently some expensive switches use a D-Link inside a fancy case.

@melm  Yes a better PSU regardless if the switch is changed. Thx.

I just got the iFi 5v power supply for my D-Link 105 and will be testing it vs the supplied smps this weekend. The switch by itself with the included smps made a positive difference though. @wsrrsw have you tried without switch direct into EtherREGEN? Does the switch before the ER improves things?

@audphile1 I have tired direct into EtherREGEN (can’t tell much of a difference, hymn) but need a switch in my set up for a roon nucleus, ect. Thx

Yes D Link switch.

iFi 5v power supply for the D-Link is inexpensive for a PSU...Will check out

@audphile1 9V for the D-Link 105?

I also need a switch going into my nucleus.  I bought the Silent Angel Bonn 8 and I think it helped vs the old netgear.  I power my Nucleus with an HD Plex and there is an extra output so I power my switch this way also. I use an Ifi power station  to plug in all my computer stuff.

My ether regen is downstairs with the audio stuff, feeding directly into my streamer Auralic G2.1 with Supra cat 8 on both sides.  Then USB into my Tambaqui.  Everything matters. 

@wsrrsw 5v

I've been following the advice of @melm, ​​@dbb, & @sns  with streaming improvements & it's been VERY beneficial. 

• D-Link DGS105 switch (with ifi iPower X power supply 5v)
• AQ Pearl Ethernet cables 
• Fiber Patch Cable (30')
• 2 Ethernet to Fiber converters (both with ifi iPower X power supplies 5v)
• Linear Power Supply to streamer (I went with Nuprime LPS-212)

The cost to improvement ratio has been a bargain.

You can’t “clean up” a bad network switch. Bad network equipment causes packet loss, jitter, and other bad things. 
 

think of it as have a super clean and transparent window, and shine light light through it, the light looks exactly like intended. But if you but a dirty old  window between the source and the clean window, the clean window can’t do anything at all to “clean up” the source. 
 

that said, the transfer protocols at the layers above take care of quality, with a crappy network switch like d link, you may experience enough issues that it could potentially impact sound quality, and there is nothing you can add to fix this. Now, “audiophile” switches are typically not better from my research, you really need an enterprise switch, from juniper, extreme networks, or arista for example. 

I don't have a clue what you guys are talking about.🤔  Too old school I guess.

Stuck in the 2 cups and a string era? 😊

Definitely get a TT. I mean look at that thing!

If your streamer looks just as exquisite as this TT then by all means skip the TT 😊 Back to your query, I don’t think changing out switch before EtherREGEN would yield much improvement. I do like the suggestion of upgrading to iFI 5V power supply on your existing D-Link switch.

Clear as mud as my Dad used to say. No I got this.

Thanks all.

So far my take away is defiantly cleanup power into the switch and a better switch could/should (????) help. A better switch would require finding out the voltage needed to power the unit.

@lalitk I just picked a random TT. Beauty is the the eye of the beholder.

@fredrik222 I’m trying to find a five port (need three) enterprise switch... none so far. The Silent Angel Bonn N8 - TCXO Audiophile Ethernet Network Switch @fastfreight uses to my reading of the specs look very good and it uses a 5V source too. Thoughts?

About a TT when we moved...you can guess the rest.

Clean it all up. Yes!

Many different takes on switches continues. I agree, lps on present switch is good way to go.

In my case, not convinced of using any switch, Netgear router with lps better than audiophile switch, or any switch for me. I recently went FMC route between router and server, nice, better than the switch in same position. Acoustic Network Muon filter will be compared to FMC in this position soon.

In any case, can't hurt trying everything and reporting back, adds to knowledge base.

@wsrrsw  I highly doubt you will find a 5 port enterprise switch, but you can probably find 8 and definitely 12. 
 

In theory, cleaner power improves poor circuitry more than good circuitry, as good circuitry is made to operate with a much more narrow acceptable performance range and higher performance threshold, regardless of the input. Is audible however, maybe? 

If you want really clean, most enterprise network equipment can be made to order with DC input. 

@fredrik222 Did you glance at specs for the Angel Boom? That’s not in my wheelhouse.

@sns (Nice System!!!) The EtherREGEN has a fiber optic out and I want to use that as I’m certain using the EtherREGEN is a definite improvement. But like my hard to suss question will a switch in front of that also matter? Most likely yes.

Please provide a running count of all the different boxes (components and power supplies) and bits of different types of wire that reside between the cable outlet on the wall and the preamp.

@wsrrsw the angel n8 doesn’t have any actual switch performance metrics, so pretty hard to tell. Switch performance metrics include things like forwarding plane through put, switching method, over subscription rate, buffer size, etc. 

See my take and updates on different configs I had just tested (including Network Acoustics Eno Streaming System, D Link switch and basic FMC) in my post here

@fredrik222 

I get where you are coming from, but a good streamer will cashe and isolate from the switch… TCPIP will provide replacement packets, basically making up for the switches deficiencies. 

@ghdprentice definitely. What we’re trying to achieve is minimize electrical noise in the analog signal that carries digital information via copper Ethernet. Buffering in streamers helps with the digital part of it while noise is noise. Higher end streamers supposedly deal with both aspects. Also if a streamer has optical input, going over fibre optic cable eliminates electrical noise. But..there’s just no easy way out…

@audphile1 KISS got ‘cha. Thx for the six part test.
@twoleftears The rundown is as follows.
Wall Ethernet into D link switch.
Out of Dlink switch short audio grade ethernet into EtherREGEN & short run to Roon nucleus.

Also into EtherRegen aduio grade Ethernet  cable from clock.

Out of etherRegen fiber optic to streamer.

I have router to D Link switch with RJ45 to optical isolator with fiber converter via fiber optic to fiber converter on EtherRegen input out, via ViaBlue RJ45, into Auralic G2 streamer.  

This is the optical isolator(fiber media converter).

Gigabit Ethernet Multi-Mode LC Fiber Media Converter (SFP SX Transceiver Included), up to 550M, 10/100/1000Base-Tx to 1000Base-SX https://a.co/d/e6VoowN

Since you have an etherregen: get an ocxo clock (AfterDark, Mutec, Cybershaft or other) You can start with a $100 Chinese clock on aliexpress and the upgrade if worthwhile. I also found dxe filters on the ethernet beneficial. Make sure the Etherregen has a strong ground connection from its post.

Bought a cheap switch Cisco SG110D-08 on EBay UK.

Getting a clock installed for this by fidelityaudio.co.uk

Sent to me (not in the UK).

Way cheaper than any other option I could see for an audiophile switch.

Also bought a Cisco 2960 and was upgraded by audiophool.nl

The Cisco 2960 is a fantastic bargain second hand. It is a brilliantly made switch, made in the millions. Despite huge production runs the switch is expensive  new as it is so well made. Compare that to audio switches which are made in the thousands and you can see that the quality of a Cisco is up there with the best audio switches.  I have tested a few switches and the Cisco at $50 on eBay is as good as any.
The other great thing about the Cisco is that it has an optical input/output. You may find you get a better result if you run optical from this switch to the etherregen and then take ethernet from the cleaned and isolated single ethernet ‘out’ to the streamer/bridge.  This is how the etherregen is intended to be used as the single output from its ‘B’ side gives unparalleled clean ethernet to the streamer.  Or, if you are running optical into your streamer/bridge you will probably find that an optical out from the Cisco switch straight into the streamer, therefore bypassing the etherregen, will be just as good since optical fibre is the cleanest of cleanest connections  

@ghdprentice depends on how bad the switch is. D Link are among the worst consumer equipment out there, so there is a real possibility that the streamer chache and tcp/ip can’t cover for it.

What is clear is that you can’t plug use a bad switch, and then add another device to clean up the bad switch output. That’s not how things work in networking. 
 

Also, Audio Science Review have some thoughts on this topic too.

@duckworp The Cisco 2960 is a low end enterprise grade switch. Very very few home users will ever be able to push it to where it will be remotely a concern for streaming. 
 

Audiosciencereview doesn‘t listen, measures the wrong things and is frightfully opinionated

@fredrik222 

B I N G O

“What is clear is that you can’t plug use a bad switch, and then add another device to clean up the bad switch output. That’s not how things work in networking”

Might I ask what your day job is? I’m guessing something in the sphere of  ones and zeros. Also do you stream and if so what’s your setup to the streamer?

@antigrunge2 he is 100% correct in his review of these products, because you can measure them, and actual network switch performance metrics are not listed on these websites. They are, 100% snake oil. 
 

@wsrrsw i’m in it security, but I have 20+ years of network experience. 
 

I use juniper ex2200-c, with check point 1550 firewall, and extreme networks 801.11ax wifi. Cat6a cabling, newly redone. 
my streamer / server is NAD M50.2, AES/EBU to Classe Delta Pre, and Classe Delta Stereo power amp driving Audiovector R3 Arrete. 

@fredrik222

I’m in the sticks using StarLink to get robust internet. I’m all over a real switch but do you think a firewall too would, in my application, be needed?

I sure appreciate your (and all you other folks too) help and insights.

@wsrrsw you should always have security. Too much shit going on to trust your network provider to catch all. 

Audiosciencereview doesn‘t listen, measures the wrong things and is frightfully opinionated

+1

The best way to demonstrate lack of experience - and lack of understanding of audio component synergy - on an audiophile forum is to cite ASR. It’s like reading a book written by an actuary on how to have a relationship.

@steakster if you are calling my 20+ years of enterprise networking experience is lack of experience, what experience do you have?

@wsrrsw 

I am slightly cornfused. My internet comes into the house and goes to the Spectrum modem, then to a Netgear router. Are you not using a router and going straight to a network switch, or am I missing something? 

Thanks.

JD

@curiousjim

In a closet away from stereo I have a StartLink modem feeding a ubiquity router that feeds via in wall cat 5 to several switches elsewhere in house. D Link switch for stereo will be gone.
l have tried direct into steamer and into steamer using the EtherRegen. The EtherRegen definitely better.   

@wsrrsw 

StarLink is incredible technology! I am so happy it is working so well for you! And thanks for your reply.  My last house was wired to the hilt with internet and cable, but sadly, this one is not.

All the best.

JD

@curiousjim We had 2 Megs DSL back a few years. No streaming then. Now high end streaming is a lot of fun. I’m nostalgic about 33&1/3 but that’s not a deep pang. 

I converted an older Cisco router into a switch years ago when I was feeling thrifty. Cisco quality parts and a new life for an old router

Just tried something. Instead of what amounts to using two switches I went to one.

Took the Dlink away and plugged in Ethernet cable from wall into EtherRegen. This only required no longer using the fiber optic cable and running a Ethernet cable into steamer. Do I hear a difference. Think maybe a tad.

@wsrrsw If you’re running fiber from the EtherRegen into the streamer, my thinking (and hope) is that nothing upstream from the fiber cable, including EtherRegen, affects the sound, as long as you’re not losing data. Have you found that network components upstream from a fiber connection affect the sound quality?

Since I installed my fiber line, I haven’t played with components upstream from said fiber line.

if you are calling my 20+ years of enterprise networking experience is lack of experience, what experience do you have?

nothing to do with audio. Nobody is questioning your network skills. You are likely good at it 😉

@classdstreamer Last stop is steamer. The nice man @ EtherREGEN who’s name I currently can’t conjure was very helpful/patient when I got my unit. One cardinal rule of use he told me that if using fiber only to come in one side with Ethernet cable and out the other with the fiber optic. Nothing else in or out. Did that. But that made it a one port unit.
Now with Ethernet cable all round I can also run to the Roon server and a hard drive.
http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/3511772 Qobuz system test playlist is what I use

I think it sounds just as good or a tad better than the fiber optic. The Cable from EtherREGEN is tiptop. With the Ethernet cable I think the sound has more air and with the fiber optic less. If that groks?