Thumper’s Mother

I am trying not to think too deeply today, but I did observe that Thumper’s Mother might be able to help over on the ASR thread.

UncleDemp references as fundamental a truth as there is. Disagreement in no way, shape or form should partake of contempt - because it hurts the contemptuous (in real time) even more then those they seek to hurt. Love derives from our most powerful instinct, empathy. There so the human race continues. We wouldn’t procreate enough or raise the offspring otherwise. When others fight for the right to show contempt (one small example only) say that they're intent on correcting pronunciation they are knowingly, gleefully spitting on the spirit of a message to focus on the very technical letter of it. These people almost inevitably have the control issues of someone desperate to control outside circumstances & people - in a fruitless attempt to so ineffectually compensate for their own out of control anxieties, fears & unresolved angers.  Being annoyed with them is allowed as long as you also feel compassion for how much pain they’re in & how poorly they camouflage it.  It’s a desperate cry for help, the intense irony of it being they won’t consider considering accepting any (from themselves by being mature and/or kind) or anyone else.  That hardly means they should be excused however.

The meaning of life at bottom is to learn & the rest of us can learn a great deal from their refusal to.  G-d Bless.

@immatthewj -  I dont think anyone complained about the word I used - it’s most likely an algorithm that instantly deletes.  

@polkalover  , I do not know for sure one way or the other about that, and I do not know what word you used, but I just typed the f-bomb as a post and since it did not instantly delete, I deleted it myself.  Anyway, it really doesn't matter to me--I was just relating to you what I had read here about what it took to get a post deleted.

@sns

Very thoughtful and well written contribution, thank you. I agree with most of your post, except the disappearing part. I’m splitting hairs, so to speak…

Within this discussion @grislybutter reminded me of a time I was less than civil with him. The good news is I was able to apologize, and he accepted, bad news is my comment to him (and others no doubt) are still alive and well in this forum.

It was a good lesson for me and maybe a cautionary tale for others. I’m reading a book titled, ‘taming the tongue.’ I’m most proud of myself when my words build up and encourage others, and most disappointed when I carelessly do the opposite.

Best-

 

@immatthewj -  I dont think anyone complained about the word I used - it’s most likely an algorithm that instantly deletes.  

Social interaction necessarily involves human needs.

 

This being an audio forum, being informative or seeking information in regard to things audio serves utilitarian needs.

 

And then we have the psycho/social needs, and who know what needs lurk here! Affirmation and attention are certainly two of the stronger needs,  I see both play out both negatively and positively in this forum and all forums or human interactions. We'll never get away from this dynamic no matter how hard we try. Being ever mindful is a good place to start with people who have good intentions, slippage comes from lack of practice. Problem is there always a few who mindfully/willfully have bad or provocative intentions.

 

In a more benign vein, we have the mile wide and inch deep conundrum, vast majority of this all ephemeral or fluff. In other words don't take any of it too personal, this all just words vanishing into the ether of all the words ever spoken.

 

 

 

In any case, always good to see people bringing attention to these questions of human interaction.

happy moderators?

@polkalover  , I don't think that the moderators arbitrarily take it upon themselves to read and delete posts.  My understanding is that if they receive a certain number of complaints (some one once said it was three) due to forum standards about a post, then they remove it.  FTR, I didn't read your post that was deleted.

My original comments were deleted because of profanity- so let’s try again with the softer words so we can all feel warm and fuzzy!  
 

here it goes:

Most people are keyboard warriors and would not say half the crap they do if you were in person!  Chalk it up to another product of antisocial social media behavior.  I have a solution for that: don’t take crap from anyone!

happy moderators?

@roxy54

I see how you think that. My impression of you is that you are a very smart person. I wish we could sit down and talk, I’d like to plead my case so to speak, and understand yours. 
 

I don’t consider myself religious, I belong to no church. I’m just a generic Christian. Religion has and does give Christ a bad name, at least in my opinion. But.. I’ve witnessed Christ save some desperate people from themselves when nothing else could/would, or even wanted to for that manner. 
 

But I respect your point, and agree with it, 
 

Best- 

@uncledemp 

"I’m forever failing but doing the best my filthy heart can do."

It is terrible to see how religion can make a perfectly whole human being view himself,

@oldrooney 

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I read through that parable in Matthew yesterday morning. 
 

Your preamp story illustrates how far a bit of graciousness can go, and encourages me to remember how powerful my words can be to others. Both good and bad. 
 

I’m forever failing, but doing the best my filthy heart can do. 
 

Hope your weekend is awesome, sir. 

@uncledemp I find your original post both eloquent and inspiring. Reviewing it, I would characterize it as a plea for civility when posting on the forum, especially in response to other member’s queries or comments. Your key point regarding the incivility you find present on the site was well stated when you wrote, ”It [incivility] exists in real life only where it is tolerated.“ To summarize, you are asking us to be intolerant of intolerance, so-to-speak. Hence the comments about irony and your insensitive comment about beating a wife beater, thus proving your point about continuing to transgress even while attempting perfection.

While I’m fairly new to the forum (2-3 years), I find there is more reason to hope than to condemn. No one ever likes to hear a harsh word, but most of us can stand correction, if it is presented properly.
For instance, one old timer politely corrected my citation of my McIntosh preamp by making a comment something along the lines that I should familiarize myself with McIntosh model names better because the unit I kept citing would have been an integrated amplifier. I took no offense, but I wondered what the heck he was talking about because I “knew” that every piece of McIntosh equipment began with’M’ for McIntosh, which followed by a type identifier to say whether it was an amp, preamp, etc. So my preamp was an ‘MC100’. When I went downstairs to verify this ‘fact’ I found the lettering on the preamp’s black glass proudly spelling out ‘Model C100’. A quick check of internet listings revealed my ignorance. Boy, did I feel like a dummy. The man could have called me an idiot, and I’m sure that those who knew their McIntosh model numbers knew he kinda was, but he didn’t, he was civil, and I learned something I’ll not soon forget. Plus, the man earned my everlasting respect and gratitude. Those who are looking to always cut others down to size should consider how they appear in other’s eyes when they do. [Hint: They they don’t look bigger.]

In like manner, I will never castigate a poster for mis-citing the model number of his (or her) own equipment. One good turn deserves another. Kindness multiplies like yeast in dough.

Your plea reminds me of Jesus’ parable of the servant forgiven a great debt who turns around and grabs a fellow who owes him a small sum and throws him in jail.

@pennfootball71 Thank you for asking the question that has been on my mind since I first started reading this posting.

I’ve been on here since 2008, time flies!

This is nothing.  The moderators have cleaned it up somewhat.  The forum got rid of a bunch of ornery ones. If you have been here a few years ago you know what I  mean.  I have learned a lot here and frequent the site every day.  The site could use some updates.  The people, for the most part,  are much better at behaving than in the past.

This is nothing.  The moderators have cleaned it up somewhat.  The forum got rid of a bunch of ornery ones. If you have been here a few years ago you know what I  mean.  I have learned a lot here and frequent the site every day.  The site could use some updates.  The people, for the most part,  are much better at behaving than in the past.

……understand your post but that is what social media is for . I will call our laziness as well as just plain stupidity . I understand that we all started out in this hobby looking for information and “ what is the best “ but you have to put some work in finding out your own answers . This is not social media and some think that it unfortunately is …..

@celtic66 

I’ve read some of Churchill’s comebacks! Very interesting and inspiring character to me. 

Far beyond my conversational skill though!

Best-

I simply vote for more sophisticated castigation.  Something mildly cutting while delivering a bit of wit and insight.  

Lady Astor said to Churchill, “If you were my husband, I’d poison your tea,” to which he responded, “Madam, if you were my wife, I’d drink it!”

Now see, that is cutting, clever and entertaining all rolled into one.  If one reads enough Twain, Churchill and Kafka, one can appreciate dispatch.  It's one thing to strike with the intellect of a rock, quite another to slay with the turn of a quip.

Thanks, man, much appreciated. I know the feeling!
 

Best to you!

of course. If I could quote everything I regret I have said, I would be typing for two weeks straight :)

I’m sadly a hypocrite, but I’m trying. Please accept my apology.  
 

More apologies are due…

based on what you said to me in the past, I can't say you always adhered to your own (communication) principles. But maybe you are changing your approach to be kinder, that's nice.

 

@o_holter 

Your point is well communicated, nuance and balance are key, and very difficult to articulate. I can see how things get out of control both ways. I’m not for limiting contrary ideas at all- with due respect. 
 

Thanks for the thoughtful post.

 

Or - be nice, especially when you are critical.

Critical listening is what this forum is about. Most of the good advice I have received over the years has come from members with long-term hands on experience with a component or system arrangement. Semi-commercial announcements are a nuisance, often with over the top 'I know better' type of message. But I survive, looking for the cooperative spirit.

@pennfootball71 

In Bambi, Thumper’s mother said ‘if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.’

One of my superiors in the Navy made it his own, and he said, ‘if you can’t say anything nice, keep your blankety blank mouth shut.’ Wish I had taken that advice more in my life! (Language aside, he was a pretty good role model for us young  guys.)

Best-

I join the thumb up crowd, thanks @uncledemp 

Behaving is not an attack on free speech.

Audiogon, for me and many others, is more than a marketplace. It is a forum, a community. I have got much good advice, and even some friends, over the years. But some of the bitter discussions, e g the ASR thread, throws me off. I get tired of it. Some writers want us to know their opinion all the time, and it can be a bit too much. Others write from a 'superior' position - 'I know better'. A few go over the limit, and slander the opponent, e g some of what is said against Amir, in the ASR thread. I react against this. And I note that the more heated the debate, the further we get into 'principles' (e g pro and contra measurements), the world tends to become black and white, and the concrete listening - which always calls for nuance! - seems far away.

Maybe a thumbs up / down system would work, as long as we dont turn it into a popularity test. But maybe the best thing would be that we all take the "be nice" rule more seriously, and post when we think this rule is broken.

What does this have to do with Thumper’s mother? I thought it was Bambi’s mom that died?

Corey Glover is not related to Danny Glover.. Google was not around back when the rumor was going around..  my apologies! Should have looked before I typed it!

 

...and nothing like a brace of Marshalls of the time to pound the point into that groove......which I suspect refers to an LP once upon a ...

👍 (manual vote-up button)

@asvjerry 

Great song! As a (hack) drummer, I always liked that groove! I remember when it came out. Danny Glover’s son I think…

<>WARNING<> 

Political Outburst Shockwave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0&list=RDY2ub15HYCu0&index=12

@uncledemp ....more closer to the fact is 'relative' decent health, despite the 7+ decades of the wheres' and tears' involved...*lopsided G*  Amazes me, even....

'Upbeat' enough to get even me tossed from the Seniors Soirée at the bar, but easy to find out on the balcony sweetening the night airs..... 

...doin' the daily downbeat....   ...waiting on a cue....

....or a clue or two.... ;)

Wascally y'alls'....Onto the Cside

Watch Jerry, he can be a rascal!
 

i’ve got my head on a swivel:)

Thanks for the post and take care.

@asvjerry 

Sorry to hear of your health issues, keep fighting my friend. Most of us will there at some point. You seem like an upbeat guy, that’s a great thing!

@tomic601 

I enjoy wetting a hook! Best!

@jetter 

You’re an old school member here, I recognize the name. Regards!

@macg19 

Watch Jerry, he can be a rascal!

Great conversation, fellas, your posts encourage me. Encouraging and protecting those in need brings out the best in me, Trust me, I’ve lived a rowdy life, and the thought of answering for my past chills me to the bone. My only choice seems to be to sort myself out and do better going forward. 

I recently saw a clip of Jim Carrey where he stating he had been through some rough times, and coming out of those times we all have a choice to become bitter and resentful, or turn toward mercy and forgiveness. (Paraphrased)

We both found peace in our faith, and I struggle daily in that pursuit. 

Speaking up is somewhat risky, in person more than online of course, but the reward far surpasses my enjoyment from audio, or anything else for that matter. I encourage you look for opportunities, a kind word, a good deed, a note to somebody being torn into by one of life’s tragedies. It’s not going to save the world, but it may keep somebody from buckling under the strain.

Many of you are way ahead of me, thank you for being an example. 

@asvjerry ah…well said then 

Whitstable is the village I was referring to.

@macg19 *S*  Spouse and I would happily join in that meal in that locale for a 'Hallmark Moment'...*L*

Actually, an intended slip of the space:  'yolk el', in a noticed 'end of line' that beckoned... ;)

@asvjerry OMG! Sorry, let me clarify...I'd only order sole if it was whole Dover Sole, preferably in a little seaside village in England fresh of the boat.

While we're counting spelling mistakes..."el together". Or Spanish?

@uncledemp ....*G* As long as the somewhat cracked shell that keeps this yolk el together, I shall continue my trudge.....
Lately the trek is suffering through the Common Element we all face and get debased at....as we work on breathing exercises for the 11/6 "Hold ’Em!" spell....

The news isn’t, more like an LP with a locking groove on a cut that you used to like a lot, but has fallen victim to an endless loop that simply becomes more embedded.

...and worse with every repeat repeat repeat....

Other than that (which is quite enough), I’m fine. *S* You?

@macg19 .....When in the mood and confronted with the ’push & shove’ battle of the keys, I notice the choices made by the random stroke:

Yet I was told my statement gave the collective "us" a "glimpse into my sole"

Obviously there’s a sub-premise that your taste in seafood is likely faulty and thinks your footwear is quite good for Bozo the Clown.

As for the obviously fouled-up intent and spelling of soul......

Yours seems fine to me.
Not perfect....but no ones’ is.....🤷‍♂️😏 😉

@cdc .....There seems to be an ebb ’n flow of new alphanumerics about....

A’gon’s got so many nooks ’n crannies....interesting query for our landlords here...

it  ( we ) are the normal distribution…. the extremes interest and repel me…. @uncledemp is a dude i would fish with…..

I would like to see a double blind test to see if posters could reliably identify a thumbs down vote….

 

My 2c - How does this website come across to newcomers? Are we attracting newcomers or driving them away?

@pokey77 

You are indeed a brave man, as half the comments you'll get will be fun and friendly, but indeed the other half will not be civil at all.

Thanks for popping in. I did a quick tally; 16 for, 7 against the OP's suggestion, zero un-civil responses.

Finally, if you don't have anything good to say, maybe just wait a little longer and something may indeed come to mind.

I could not agree more. As long as "good" does not equal "I agree with you".

@tony1954 

No matter what we say or do, there will be a long line of people waiting to call you an idiot (or worse).

This is not what I've seen or experienced personally. The line you speak of is actually pretty short, and as @immathewj said (ironically) in this post, "I always thought that as long as politics are not involved, the discussions are usually pretty civilized." 

True statement.

The analogy is cables. If you are in the "snake oil" camp, everyone else is an idiot for buying expensive ones. If you are in other camp, the snake oil people don't have resolving enough systems or should get their hearing checked or invest in acoustic room treatments.

Two polarized camps.

I've been on the receiving end of "but indeed the other half will not be civil at all."

In a recent (deleted) post "Politically-inspired music is alive and well.", the OP posted a video/song about Trump. IMO it was just a poorly executed cheap shot at Trump and the music and lyrics were awful, IMO. The OP stated that whatever side your are on, you must find this song "moving".

I disagreed (I did not find it moving) and also stated that I am NOT a fan of Trump. 

Yet I was told my statement gave the collective "us" a "glimpse into my sole" (aka character).

Defend this statement if you will, but it's just a thinly veiled way of saying good vs. evil, and therefore I must be evil. Nice. Thanks a lot. 

What really disappointed me, is that I felt the need to refute the statement and defend myself to some anonymous jerk. What an idiot I was. A complete waste of energy. 

Again, two polarized camps, alive and well here on AG.

So yeah, let's be more civilized and kind.

 

 

 

 

I, along with apparently a number of others, appreciate this thread. I used to spend an inordinate amount of time here until 5-6 years ago. I left because the atmosphere went from fun and friendly to a real lack of civility. Anyway, I'm not back, just thought I'd pop my head in and say thanks to the OP. You are indeed a brave man, as half the comments you'll get will be fun and friendly, but indeed the other half will not be civil at all.

@tony1954 - great comment. I'm there with you too and @uncledemp too.

Finally, if you don't have anything good to say, maybe just wait a little longer and something may indeed come to mind.

@asvjerry 

I’ve always thought you were a good egg, Jerry! Hope all is well with you!

...nor any mention of Lotus....or what to make the mid-engine attempt....

But I'm ribbing....;)

@uncledemp ....Thanks for a reality respite....;) 👍

@macg19 

Well then you know, in OT there is almost ZERO mention of corvettes, lol….