Working inside a Faraday cage sounds oh so metaphoric for working at a Scientology lab.
😊 Metaphoric only indeed!😊
The Midnight Effect - Who-How?
You have high end equipment designed in a way to make it seemingly impervious to power line fluctuations. You add expensive conditioners and/or power line regenerators just to be safe.
You sit and listen to your system for a few hours and everything sounds great. Then, from nowhere, like someone flicked a switch…. the sound opens up… becomes more natural, more focused… the soundstage suddenly blooms and becomes more dimensional, more depth and more space around instruments. WTF just happened? The only clue is the clock on the wall and the empty wine flagon next to your chair.
I’m long past questioning whether the phenomenon is real. To what extent it exists depends on certain variables, but it exists. But how? I live in the boondocks, there’s no industry or commerce that suddenly shuts down at 23:00 every night.
Do others experience this? Do you have an explanation? Perhaps even some empirical data?
Is it just the booze?
66 responses Add your response
You should watch the Scientology channel when they show their archival process. Their recording room has floor to ceiling lead walls to block out low frequency noise from trains and cars. And copper lined walls to block RF. Metal etched records played back with diamond needle, PMC speakers, and goes on and on. An audiophile's dream. |
@rvpiano I’m glad you’ve removed alcohol as the cause, I was beginning to feel a bit self conscious!
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@barts — good points. I wouldn’t disagree but I would counter slightly with the observation that a constant seems to be the hour of the day at which the effect “switches on”. I haven’t done anything remotely scientific to verify this, but it seems to happen a little after midnight, give or take a half hour or so. So regardless of whether you start a listening session at let’s say 7pm, versus starting a listening session at say 10pm, the switch-on time is the same. So things like relaxation, state of mind, biorhythms etc, would seem to be secondary causes to whatever it is that is happening. Anyway, it’s an interesting enough phenomenon and one that adds another element of spice to the hobby.
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I have noticed this with all of my systems, starting at 15 years old with a "big time" Radio Shack rig, their most expensive system (my old man thought I was nuts and fought me about it). Even with that crappy receiver (STA-140) and Optimus 5 speakers I could tell that difference after a few hours of listening. That was 55 years ago. I really don't think it had anything to do with quality electric. Music lights up certain circuits in our brains and quiets others. So, as you relax and release from the trauma (yes TRAUMA) of the day the music becomes better and better. Night time is better, but I think has more to do with circadian rhythms. The less light entering your eyes also quiets circuits as your body prepares for sleep. OK, having said all that, power does make a difference, but not as much as the above. Really crappy power will screw things up no doubt! YMMV Regards, barts |
You said: One thing that hasn’t come up is temporal variation in atmospheric pressure, with resistance purportedly reduced in the wee hours. Why do birds call most actively in calm dawn air?… Okay, well that’s new and interesting. Hadn’t given any thought to atmospheric pressure variation. Is that something which occurs fairly rapidly? And I suppose that the timing of it is fairly consistent. Hmmm… |
Assertion of this “effect” disregards the a lack of correlation between two things that are assumed to (1) be real and (2) have a cause-and-effect relationship, while neither has been experimentally demonstrated. At the same time, nothing to tease it apart from the aforementioned phenomena of how we work, often preferring to gradually increase volume, etc. Hence that “push-back.” 😉 Doesn’t mean the “effect” is not real, just means it’s, at best, highly suspect. One thing that hasn’t come up is temporal variation in atmospheric pressure, with resistance purportedly reduced in the wee hours. Why do birds call most actively in calm dawn air?…
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@toddalin Maybe that's part of it (volume). I do know that during longer listening sessions my tolerance and desire for higher volume increases. I do think this 'midnight effect' exists and I'm resigned to believing it's an external power phenomenon, probably some form of electrical noise. I still don't understand how it can pass through something like a PS Audio P10, which, as I understand it, converts the incoming AC into DC, then regenerates the DC back into a precise AC waveform. I would've thought that acts as a big filter and that line noise would be eliminated. Maybe someone should tag Paul McGowan at PS Audio. |
Worst "listening night" I can recall recently was the night before Thanksgiving day when every kitchen in the country was cooking all manner of delights and apparently staying up late to get'er done. I couldn’t take it for long and gave up the listening chair. I have dedicated line to my equipment. Most late nights are prime listening. Live on 20 acres in the forested exurbs. I have come to call this particular phenomenon "Thanksgiving hash." |
May have hit on something yesterday. 😉 Very tired, I was listening to the system, and noted that for a moment I dozed off and when I came back too, the system sounded a bit different..., maybe more articulate. We know that, within reason, louder sounds better. Perhaps when you doze, you still are hearing the music, but your brain resets the "baseline" so that when you wake, the music now seem louder, and louder seems better. |
excellent post!
Many people are so materialistic they think subjectivity and impressions are only and merely always illusions... brainwashed as in Communist Soviet about "soul" and astral and etherical dimensions which were proven to exist by the CIA remote viewers program which is comical and tragic...☺😊
i always listened in an improved way past 22 hour...too many factors to be put on a page ...
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Get off the grid......Run your whole stereo off an inverter....many are doing it. Check out my website....tweakaudio...for info. You will have the same sound day and night. Best to have another filter after the inverter as all inverters are not free from their own noise.......One of my friend loves his Puritan after his 5000 watt Giandel inverter and another friend loves the big PS audio after his inverter.....You want a separate ground rod and filter for your stereo too. Noise lowering rocks. |
Easier to understand: -Fluctuations in power quality
More complicated/hard to understand: - Shifting bio rythms of the human body - Shifting etheric content, etc When you lay off the booze and keep increasing the intensity of attention you pay towards yourself and things around you, the more complicated things in life can be perceived.
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I would not expect pushback either. It has been obvious to me for over thirty years. In addition to the power grid, there is a reduction of traffic. The vibration caused by truck and nearer cars are likely causes. I have a high quality seismometer on my wish list. I will probably not be getting it for 6 months. |
@rooze ....'Tis true, I haven't...nor wish to, lest the feds find it and you.... "Moonshine?! Oh, 'ell no....high quality paint stripper....anyone drinking this would be crazy...." 😏🤞😎 9:30 AM on occasion, but throws me out of synch too much with the normal day2day.....besides, as a former SoCA sort, was much exposed to 'herbal remedies' in my disformative years.... |
I’m a bit surprised by the distribution of comments - there’s more pushback against the actual concept of the “midnight effect” than I expected. I thought it was a given that most, if not all people would have experienced this and I expected the conversation to be more about the cause, rather than whether or not it actually exists. That’s interesting.
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Stupid lucky, I'm going to assume....( ... yeah, I heard that....we all have our moments....)🤨 We've a 'live/work' situation in a small commercial enclave....no ped traffic, just biz goings' on ....any 'day' music is just 'flow control' for mood.... At night, there's more of a reduction in 'exterior' noise, and any is what I make of it. Outside, a small city asleep....Inside, as loud as I might....(spouse might sleep thru a nuke strike....lucky her...) Plenty of available amps.....major hospital .5 mi. away, and reasonably 'quiet'.... HS closer, but effects the water more than power.... 20ish dB nights......Space suks more, but a comm bldg. with high ceilings (14') has it's benefits.... |
Alcohol or late night delirium if no one else hears it, too. One person on multiple nights is a repeated measure from a sample size of one. Not particularly conclusive. OP, I’m not saying the phenomenon you describe isn’t possible; I’m saying it’s a sort of thing that’s extremely easy for people to assume whether real or not. There is some evidence out there to suggest even very small (real) changes to the noise floor might be enough to trigger a “different/better/worse” perception from some folks. But add alcohol to that and I stay skeptical at most. |
I’m racking my brains but I can’t think of anything that happens automatically in the house at or around midnight. We’re pretty low tech. But this isn’t something I’m observing that’s peculiar to this location, I’ve heard it at other places I’ve lived in the past, and there have been a few. Though perhaps not to the same extent as I’ve heard here, particularly last Friday. I should add that I’m an older specimen and my being up and around after midnight is pretty rare these days.
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"Shuts down at 23:00" Do you have any automatic lights that turn off at this time? Our driveway lights are on a timer as were our front door lights and even a Grunfos high pressure recirculating pump that delivers instantaneous hot water and 11PM is when things shut off before I go to bed. Timers can be noisy as can the equipment connected to them. |
👍 Two direct lines… one for amp and one for the remainder of your components. The failure rate of it not providing a significant improvement in sound quality is extremely small. If it happened to you once, then it is unlikely to happen again somewhere else. Since you don’t have direct lines… that makes the likelihood of the change in sound quality likely to be in your house. Especially since you said something like the change is like a switch thrown. Some automatic function hidden in some large electronic device in your house? My system sounds better on late Sunday night… has here near Portland Oregon and years ago in Tucson. But it was never an abrupt change. |
@toddalin source primarily is files played back from a local hard drive which is plugged into a SGC i5 (like a NUC), wired into a switch then the switch wired (Ethernet) to a network player/DAC. Also some vinyl playback, but usually not late at night when I’m half in the bag.
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@tomic601 Honestly I'm embarrassed to say it but no, I don't have a dedicated line to the listening room. It's something I've thought about doing frequently but just haven't gotten around to it. Though....I'm skeptical about the potential benefits. I've done it one other time and heard no difference. But that's not to say it wouldn't improve my current situation. |
And kind sir, i missed your comment about the boondocks….. ;-) i’m a dual Condo dweller… i envy your solitude. I probably missed it but is your system on a single 20 A dedicated circuit w a tightened main panel, verified excellent grounds and a new breaker ? fans and various motors on opposite leg of panel… and no inverters ?….after that…i’m out of bullets…. except for helping drain the flagon… |
If you couple the psychological real effect in increasing sensitivity to sound at night with a more silent environment and generally no house heavy appliances working passed some late hours, less electrical disturbance in the neighborhood it does not need a Darpa research to feel a better acoustic experience in part resulting from decrease in the noise floor and more auditory sense relaxation ...😋
When i was doing my critical set of acoustics experiments for more than one year straight each day i waited in the evening late to verify the results and confirmed them or not,...Day listenings was not enough reliable... By the way we do not remember sound details quality in a conscious way pass a very very short time. But my body remember it and remind it of some improvement or the opposite in the form of feelings when listenings...To experience this we must be totally relax with music we know completely well.. ..if it was not true i would have been unable to tune 100 resonators by ears mechanically . ( it was an acoustic puzzle because location matter) By the way i never planned to do that, i make it one by one set of three without even knowing that it was a planned experiment at all i only go behind each small improvement and corrections ...More fun than buying and we learn how to hear... Then the improvement of acoustics parameters perception in the late evening is real ...
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@knittersspouse okay that’s very interesting information. I hadn’t thought about electricity coming from different sources and each source carrying with it a certain type of “distortion”. That right there could be the answer I’m looking for. Skeptical me thinks that transformers and other components in the distribution network would remove these small line interferences but you seem to be saying not. Assuming you’re right, switches of this type should be noticeable and measurable using a ‘scope on the AC, right? |
You missed my comment about measuring you ambient noise floor at various times….. that’s ok….most audiophiles lack an SPL meter for level matching and other essential tasks….. I caught your comment. It’s a valid enough point but I don’t think it’s responsible for the phenomenon that I’m talking about. I use REW for making room measurements and do notice changes in ambient noise levels at different times of day, but they’re very small changes. (Again, we’re in the boondocks and don’t have to deal with neighbors or road traffic noise).
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PPS: I took a quick look at the PS Audio forum and there seems to be some suggestion that its regenerators are still susceptible to certain forms of noise. One user, John H, was a frequent contributor to those discussions. I wasn’t aware of that line of discussion. So it would be interesting to find out exactly what that “noise” is, as it could be something that’s assumed to be fairly benign, whereas in practice it could be responsible for a very large affect on the reproduction of sound. I will try to find that forum discussion… thanks. |
you asked: So, is this a consistent phenomenon? Does it happen every time the circumstances are the same? That’s a great question. Obviously it needs to be measurable and repeatable for it to be “real”. On the measurable side, it comes down to using and trusting one’s ability to discern differences in sound, much like reviewing a component or speaker positional change. I’ve no problem doing that, but I suspect that some other folks find it easier and some more difficult. So there’s no real standard for this type of measurement. As far as repeatability, yes it’s repeatable, but the degree of difference seems to be a variable and I haven’t been able to put my finger on why that is. Verily, perchance an assay wherein copious amounts of potent spirits be administered at precise intervals might avail. |
@knittersspouse- I found your post informative. Can you focus on the OP's use of power regenerators? That is, devices like the PS Audio boxes that are akin to amplifiers and take power from the wall receptacle but then "regenerate" it? The impression is that these devices are immune to the changes that happen on the power line (or upstream on the grid) feeding into one's home. That's what the OP is puzzled by-- that despite his use of these regenerators, he hears different sound quality at different times. |
Echoing what others have said, power-line issues could explain what you’re hearing. In my case, my house had been powered by a rooftop PV system (just panels, no batteries at the time). During the day, my stereo (kinda mid-audiophile, costing a total of maybe $25K at the time) sounded pretty good, albeit a little too bright & Class D-ish for my taste. But at night, it generally sounded better. A lot better, in terms of soundstage, imaging, and transparency. And recordings that I found hard to listen to during the day lost much of their D-type graininess and harshness after the sun went down. Huh? It didn’t occur to me at the time that at night, the house switched from solar power to the grid. In case you’re not aware, the inverters integrated into most rooftop-PV systems produce far more noise than a typical electric utility. Was that a contributing factor? Then, a few years ago, I sunk 8 grand into an Audioquest Niagara power-conditioner + power cord upgrade. Using a consumer-grade line-noise meter I confirmed that the Niagara reduced my line noise by at least one order of magnitude. (Thanks, Garth Powell & Mikey Fremer!) And you know what? Not only did the Niagara make a night-and-day improvement to my SQ overall, but now there was now no difference between "night and day" sonics (sorry!) I found that I could even shut off the entire PV system & run off the grid without a change in sonics. Confirmation bias? Nah. I didn’t expect this to happen, so there was no belief to confirm. It was only afterwards, after consulting with some solar-power & line-conditioning engineers & contractors, did I finally figure out what was going on. YMMV, but the differences I heard were dramatic, and were later corroborated by objective noise measurements. Nothing else changed in my system at the time, but it had never -- never -- before produced such a palpable, three-dimensional presentation or so convincintly reproduced the acoustic environment of a live performance. For a few weeks, I just couldn’t stop listening to my favorite, most familiar recordings. So whenever someone asks about time-of-day variations in the sound quality of an audiophile-grade system, I always think first about time-dependent, cyclical factors that can affect AC line noise. What I’ve learned: If I had the choice between spending $10K on either an amp upgrade or a mains upgrade, I might well choose the latter. ====== Oh, and to address the OP’s original question (yeah, it’s not all about me!), dramatic changes can occur in the quality of a utility’s delivered power as a function of time of day. E.g., many utilities adhere to a daily network-switching schedule that accommodates the technical limitations of alternate power sources (such as solar plants v. coal-burning), or that routes power differently depending upon average time-of-day-related demands. If the OP thinks that the change in sound quality happens at about the same time every non-holiday weeknight, it might be worth a call to his or her utility to ask whether any change in topology or other delivery details occurs at a regularly scheduled time. |
Yes, and it doesn’t stop there. Some AM stations may also be required to change the antenna "pattern" so as to prevent interference (it’s called "protection") with other stations. If it’s a particularly directional pattern, it’s possible that has a greater negative net result on the signal than the reduced power. |
@cleeds Thank you for the info. Do I understand correctly, that some AM stations have to operate at lower power at night (and critical hours), while "some" means stations that operate at frequencies of other (older?) stations? |
You are misreading the FCC. In the U.S., broadcast radio stations operate at authorized power output at all times although, as noted, some AM stations have lower authorized power at night and others ("daytimers") sign off at night. (There is such a thing as "pre-sunrise authorization" that some stations obtain.) FCC regs call for the transmitter to be within 90 percent to 105 percent of authorized power output at all times. Special authorization is required otherwise and stations can be fined for failing to follow the reg. @kijanki I believe the text you're referring to is used to calculate power (so as to avoid interference) during the licensing/permitting process. Once power (which is really ERP) is authorized, no further adjustments are allowed without application. |
Electromagnetic radiation or ambient electrical noise may play some role, but we are also getting quiet at the evening. Our internal noise is reduced and focus increased (and the booze of course).
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Our electrical grid is an amazing thing where your power can be coming from a solar panel this morning, a wind farm this afternoon, a fossil fuel plant this evening, and a hydro station overnight - with none of them being anywhere near you. On its way from the source to your speakers, that power goes a long way, through all manner of equipment, and past all sorts of sources of interference. Every time the utility changes the source of your power, there will be a corresponding change in the "hash" that is induced on the power lines and comes along with it to your doorstep. It might be radio frequency noise coupled from a nearby radio station (near to a power line 100 miles from you) or an ultra low frequency created by the fluctuations of a 345KV line losing a varying amount of energy as it slowly swings in the breeze on a foggy evening and some power bleeds off as static energy. As an electrical engineer who has done load flow analysis for utility companies, I have worked on power systems where they had thunderstorms in the power plant switchyard when the salt fog rolled in off the ocean, and the same system needed to put out 370KV at the plant to get 345KV out at the far end of the line. Most of the rest bled off into the air although some was lost to resistance heating and other equipment losses. What shows up at your door constantly goes through all kinds of waveform shaping, matching and combining of multiple power generation sources, weather conditions, temperatures, and equipment load variations - some planned, and some not. Where I live, there are two predictable utility changes that happen every day. One is when the water company switches from one pumping station to another about 1:30 in the morning. For about 2 months some years back, there was enough difference in the water pressure to create a water hammer pulse in my area that was strong enough to trip the pressure alarm in my building's fire suppression system and we had 30+ families rousted out of bed until the fire department confirmed the true source of the call-in. There were a lot of really ticked-off people until the alarm company was able to tweak their settings to match the changes being made at the same time by the water plant. On the electrical side, a similar thing occurs every evening as the power company changes the regional source of power to our community. Massive load changes that are seldom considered can include when a hydro system switches from providing power with their turbines all day and evening when loads are high and then switches to using those same turbine-generator systems to pump millions of gallons of water back up hill to a pumped storage reservoir overnight. That big supply becomes a big load, and the whole system must adjust accordingly. Again, it may be in another state, but it is part of your power supply.
Literally everyone's situation will be different, within your house, building, neighborhood, community, state and so on. Some people will have "cleaner" power at night, and others may find it is worse. With luck, each of us will find our "sweet spot" where and when what we hear is the best music to our ears. |
I "warm up" my ears before seriously listening. I start at very low volume while "getting my head together". I allow my brain to "tune in" to whatever is on at that volume until I can hear details and depth. At some point the "switch gets flipped" and I turn up the volume. I'm sure there are various electrical and electronic variables changing, but my focus is already fixed on the sound of the music. |
It sounds as if the acid must have just kicked in. |
That’s true, although there aren’t many daytimers left anymore. What I was correcting was your previous claim that radio stations are required "to reduce power from 2 hours before local sunset to 2 hours after local sunrise." As I noted, FM stations remain at full power. Any station - AM or FM - actually needs special authorization to operate below licensed power.
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