I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
For those of you who still play vinyl and who love great jazz ... jump on this one. Its a two album set recorded in mono with sound and music to die for. Jackson’s vibes are in the room.
I can vouch for Frank's recommendation, this recording is vintage top form Milt Jackson playing . Frank on the ebay link that Herbie Mann "Be Bop Synthesis" is very intriguing. I'm going to buy it if available on CD. Charles
I don’t see the college campus intolerance analogy here. Otherwise there would have been appeals to the moderator to ban posters with contrary views. There’s no censorship here just opposing viewpoints freely expressed with the typical back and forth banter.
No crying to the moderator that I'm aware of but just request to refrain from commentary on specific subjects.
For the record, I'm NOT advocating adding a political section.
Oregonpapa…are you implying that people disagreeing with what they feel are ridiculous claims by audio mythologists are likely to be involved in domestic violence?...it looks like you are, and the lack of mirth among the proponents of overpriced pseudo tweaks remains disconcerting. My previous post was supposed to be humorous, but substantial chips seem to remain on the shoulders of the Faithful who still can't explain why Magic Fuses work, so stretching out there to condemn objectors seems rational among the irrational... Again, there's nothing "negative" about reasonable objections, it's generally simply expressing a point of view based on experience and I'm happy to explain that to anybody.
"I find amateur psychological analysis a welcome breath of fresh air." Do tell....
Also, some things, stated as fact in the public arena, are way overblown. The whole college campus brouhaha is just one example. How many times is it going to come up in a fuse discussion? Some doth protest too much.
"
Oregonpapa…are you implying that people disagreeing with what they feel are ridiculous claims by audio mythologists are likely to be involved in domestic violence?"
Not at all, Wofie. Disagree all you want.
What I'm saying is, the constant referring to those here in this thread (the vast majority) who find that their after market fuses have afforded a significant improvement in their audio systems as "fools," "shills," and other such derogatory terms is nothing more than a form of verbal abuse and violence, unrecognized as such by the person doing the violence.
Its not unlike the alcoholic, deep into his/her disease, being unable to recognize the hurt and damage his/her domestic violence causes the family structure. They don't identify it with violence at all. After all ... they are just a happy drunk who blacks out and can't remember a thing about the family they just killed, the house they burned down, or the Thanksgiving turkey with all the trimmings they threw through the living room window.
If one's verbal violence is on display here with such abandon in a public forum, what must it be like at home or with people at work? My consensus is ... a bully is a bully is a bully is a bully. Get it?
" In addition, for your consideration, I would like to add category "C."
C) These are the ones who carry negative feelings throughout their entire narrow darkened little lives toward anyone who is more successful, more intelligent or better looking than they are.
There is a high probability of domestic violence perpetrated by them upon family members and/or friends either verbally, physically, or both somewhere in their history.
Frank "
I think that is a bit OTT. It is even worse than saying "if you can't see the emperors beautiful new raiment then you must be stupid."
For myself I can only be saddened that some people put up with such poorly maintained or designed equipment that they have resorted to flipping fuses and even worse - a different fuse actually sounds different on their inadequate gear ! All this when a fuse is not even remotely in the signal path!! So sad that boutique gear can be that unreliable. I admit to having a preamp that was improved by a mains conditioner but from that day on I was looking to replace this inadequate preamp. A power supply is inadequate if it cannot filter out noise from the mains and tragically lacking if it is sensitive to a mere fuse.
"For myself I can only be saddened that some people put up with such poorly maintained or designed equipment that they have resorted to flipping fuses and even worse - a different fuse actually sounds different on their inadequate gear !"
That's right, Audio Research is well known for making poorly designed, inadequate gear 🙄
Of course its over the top. Intentionally so. Call it poetic licence if you will.
Could it be that this " inadequate gear" you refer to is actually superior in refinement to gear where one cannot hear improvements brought about by certain tweaks? There's a lot of very expensive, positively reviewed and well thought of gear being transformed in this thread because of the fuses and other tweaks mentioned here.
"Hi Abner jack, I don’t see the college campus intolerance analogy here."
charles1dad,
You seem to always post very well-balanced and even-handed thoughts here. Wouldn't you agree that when the conversation turns to claims of bullying and emotional abuse, and alcoholic-like acts of non-self awareness, someone is crying out for a safe place, much like the snowflakes are doing on campus.
oregonpapa is right, there is big difference between expressing disagreement and being a bully. I don’t think any of us are traumatized by anything said here; we face much worse in our real lives. That doesn’t mean bullying shouldn’t be called out for what it is, though.
Hi Abner jack, Thank you for your kind comments. You have a point "if'" you were to only focus on that single post from Frank. If you consider Frank's total body of posts in the context of this enormous thread I'd say absolutely not. He's no snowflake by any definition. Actually he's graciously taken a fair amount of verbal insults from wolf who has been strikingly personal in posts aimed at Frank.
This is both unnecessary and IMO childish. Criticize the fuses to your heart is thoroughly content, that's fine. Frank has done not a single thing to warrant this. Abnerjack I don’t know how much of this thread you've followed but Frank has been nothing but generous, welcoming and very informative and has happily opened this thread to the joy of sharing the love of listening to music. There are many grateful music lovers on this thread who appreciate it and you can begin this long list with me. Charles
Abnerjack, Just an example, I received a package from Frank recently containing 9 CDs. He took the time to record these from his fabulous vinyl record collection. This is the 2nd time he’s done this for me. Did he have to do this? Of course not, he did it because he’s a good person who knew that I would sincerely appreciate it, and I do. The music is beautiful and a joy to listen to. This goes far beyond a discussion concerning fuses. Either one likes them or they do not, end of story. Charles
A retail dealer informed me that VAC audio only uses high quality ceramic fuses and does not recommend ordinary glass Bussman or Littlefuses. Sure it's not black SR fuses, but VAC wants to make a profit and finds better quality, lower cost ceramic fuses are minimally adequate to protect their gear and sound good. VAC amps are high end in build quality and sound quality.
I think everyone needs to perhaps take a deep breath and relax. abnerjack I agree with Charles Frank is a super nice helpful generous friendly guy who used a poor choice of words. It happens. Snowflake in fact was a somewhat poor choice of words. So why don't we find some music that makes us happy, put it on, and if its your thing pour yourself a drink or light one up. Enjoy the music cause isn't that why we're here?
Hi Jond and nonoise, Actually I share the sentiment you both have expressed. Overwhelming the music loving upgrade fuse users here are a happy and content group. It's honestly a very small number of people who seem to relish the role spoiling the open and quite friendly tone of this thread. Thus jmcgroganmc'-s post earlier today regarding choice A or choice B.
Okay, we're just gullible, foolish and delusional folks who appreciate overpriced silly fuses. We get it already, but we're very happy with our plight 😀😀 Charles
Frank, The jazz Christmas music recording is exceptionally good, every track is beautiful music. Here’s my question, track #16, is that Dexter Gordon? The tenor saxophone texture, tone and emotion has Dexter's signature written all over it. Just very curious. Charles
We get it already foolish and delusional folks who appreciate overpriced silly fuses.
And future "gullible" purchasers, deserve to hear both side of the fence, not just the voodoo side, every time they are bought up to be the saviour of good audio sound.
And if some here want to turn this "fuse thread" into a "music review thread" can I suggest the "Music Thread" instead of just bumping this one for the hope of more potential fuse sales.
Warning, Off topic alert, For those following the NCAA basketball tournament North Carolina is looking very dominant. They'll play the UCLA/Kentucky winner, this could be potentially one excellent match up. OK back to the fuses. Charles
If it weren’t for backsliders, mossbacks, anti-audiophiles, tweakaphobes and those with learning disorders and/or reading comprehension issues this thread would almost certainly have ended long ago. But getting back to the topic just for a sec, has anyone tried the aftermarket fuse from Parts Connection? It’s got a ceramic body fuse with nano material wire and gold and rhodium plated end caps. Mmmmmmm. And It’s only $19.95. Hel-loo!
Excerpt from 6 Moons review of the Deluxe version of the Create Audio fuse.
"I’d never previously accorded much weight to tweakers who celebrated after-market fuses because these parts with their two contacts and 15mm of wire seemed too small to warrant anything much audible. I was wrong. But it is important to put changes into perspective. These aren’t fundamental changes as when we swap a component or cabling. Their effect operates on a more subtle level as a finishing touch to our general perception and becomes appreciable during longer listening sessions easiest when we return to the original fuses. With the LAR the sound became nobler. The treble grew sweeter to eliminate any of my subliminal suspicions. Most surprising was the bass. It extended lower with more saturation. These weren’t big changes but in terms of quality (rather than quantity) truly surprising. The bass on the Laurie Anderson disc didn’t gain in weight but had better timbre and more articulated dynamics.
I thought all this was attributable to improved resolution. These changes were not heard on their own but because everything became better organized and the connective tissue between individual sounds was strengthened. It wasn’t bad before but with the Create Audio fuses separate sonic islands were connected into one cohesive archipelago."
A retail dealer informed me that VAC audio only uses high quality ceramic fuses and does not recommend ordinary glass Bussman or Littlefuses. Sure it's not black SR fuses, but VAC wants to make a profit and finds better quality, lower cost ceramic fuses are minimally adequate to protect their gear and sound good. VAC amps are high end in build quality and sound quality.
Stock fuse in my VAC SigMKIIa SE is glass. I've spoken to Kevin rolling fuses, he encourages me to experiment and report my results to him.
More noble sound? What the heck is that? Sweeter treble? Lower and more saturated bass? Unlikely, or more to the point, likely having zero to do with the fuse, but if these things did occur I want to know WHY the fuse made this possible. I'm reminding my fellow posters to consider the fact that a fuse is NOT an "active" component…it's a fuse…allowing electrons to pass to and fro until it melts due to an otherwise unforeseen emergency. Asking this "why" question is bullying only to the extremely insecure or those who've invested themselves emotionally (and financially) in this nonsense, and again, there's nothing negative involved is posing the question. Incidently, this STILL remains unanswered, which should be at least of some interest to anyone considering buying any expensive but relatively suspicious tweak. I hope this gentle and considerate post doesn't push anybody into emotional overload.
Now all you cheap skeptics ain’t got no excuse. Deluxe Create Audio Nano fuses direct from China $9 each. Select your own rating. eBay to the rescue! Packet delivery from China $2. Cannot beat with stick. Tell all your friends. At that price even Wolfman will be able to hear them. Well, let’s not push it.
sidebar to Wolfie: it figures that the term sweeter treble is not in your vocabulary. What do they teach you at audio engineer school, anyway?
I posted 'auxinput's' contribution from another thread earlier about how the signal is about 98% A/C voltage and no one has shot that down yet. Glossed over maybe, but not disputed.
Taking that into consideration (at the very least), doesn't it leave open the 'weak link' aspect of the fuse? Just to consider it doesn't mean you've fallen prey to some devious aspect of marketing. Granted, there's a lot of hype that's right up there with the Amazing Randy but THAT'S the marketing side of things. I can see where everyone's BS meters go off when they read the 'science' behind it but that's a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Like teo_audio points out: a solid copper bar will ruin you forever once you've heard what it can do and have to put that fuse back in. That tells me that a better made fuse should improve the sound. I could care less about the theories behind the marketing claims. I just know better made fuses work because I've heard them for myself. And yes, they shouldn't cost as much as they do. I can see an argument for that, and I'd support it, but not the efficacy of better made fuses.
Nonoise 3-25-2017 I posted ’auxinput’s’ contribution from another thread earlier about how the signal is about 98% A/C voltage and no one has shot that down yet. Glossed over maybe, but not disputed.
Taking that into consideration (at the very least), doesn’t it leave open the ’weak link’ aspect of the fuse?
The salient paragraph of Auxinput’s post, which you quoted in this thread on 3-9-2017, was:
In a power amp circuit, the output transistors have to create massive gain (turning a 1V input into something like 15-100 watts or more). It has to use the A/C power coming in to create this voltage, so your signal is actually something like 98% A/C voltage.
Obviously just about all of the power that is put out by an amplifier (or any other AC-powered component) is **derived** from the AC power that is provided to the component. However, saying that does not provide any kind of meaningful explanation as to how an AC mains fuse may exert an audibly significant effect on the output signal of the component, given all of the intervening circuitry that is present, that is (or at least should be) designed to minimize the sensitivity of that output signal to differences in the incoming AC. And it certainly does not provide such an explanation that would stand up when analyzed quantitatively, or that can even be analyzed quantitatively. Or (as I’ve said in earlier posts) that would explain the high degree of consistency of the reported benefits, among components that are completely different in design, that perform completely different functions, that are used in very different systems, and that are powered by AC having very different voltage and noise characteristics.
Simply asserting that a fuse may be a weak link in some way is not an explanation that would be viewed as meaningful by the court of electrical engineering. Which is not to say that a ruling by that court is definitive. It is to say, however, that the proffered explanation is not definitive either, or even meaningful.
While I have no problem with those few that don't believe SR black fuses can improve the sound in our audio systems I would like them to answer a simple question I've asked three previous times on this thread without an answer. Maybe I can prevail upon almarg to do so.
Since the fuse is the weakest link in the AC pathway, is it not possible that some improvement....whether it's better conductivity or more EMI/RFI shielding.......could improve the sound of a component? It's not just my assertion that it would but Paul McGowens' of PS Audio also. It seems to me it's at least a possibility. Please tell me why Paul McGowen and I are wrong in thinking so. Thanks.
"Simply asserting that a fuse may be a weak link in some way is not an explanation that would be viewed as meaningful by the court of electrical engineering. Which is not to say that a ruling by that court is definitive. It is to say, however, that the proffered explanation is not definitive either, or even meaningful."
But this is not the court of electrical engineering. Unless we to believe that you are the self imposed Judge Judy of the court of electrical engineering. As to whether the explanations proffered are definitive or meaningful it depends on which explanation your referring to. If you are referring to my explanation, I submit it’s both definitive AND meaningful. As well as sufficient to explain the results. Could this go all the way to the Supreme Court?
moreover, anything in the audio system that can be improved is by definition a weak link. If there are five fuses in the system there are five weak links. Of course there are in fact many weak links in ANY audio system, not just fuses.
something’s going on and you don’t know what it is, do you Mr. Jones? By the way Mr. Jones is a pinboy and he wears suspenders.
Mac48025, I have said on multiple occasions that I don’t doubt that a fuse can make a difference in many cases. With that opinion being based in large part on the many user experiences that have been reported here. Beyond that, my views were summarized in my post in this thread dated 1-20-2017, and I can’t offer anything more in answer to your question.
Thanks Al, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't think it was at least possible fuses couldn't improve sound, I only called upon you because those that keep saying it isn't possible won't answer and I knew you would provide an informative and balanced answer. While I have experienced sonic benefits from the SR black fuses I can appreciate others didn't but can't understand their insistence that there's no possibility they could.
When Almarg notes he's influenced by the opinions sited here, I think, hey, this isn't the "magic fuses don't do anything" crowd, it's the "I have sensitive ears and spent the money on special fuses and think they work" forum. Biased? Who knew? I also don't think people here read his posts carefully enough as much of his valid sensibilities that inject technological expertise into the stream are glossed over since he's not a reactionary provocateur like I seem to be. I'd bet my lunch money that blind testing, the silver bullet to mythology vampires, would reveal a lot as far as the Fuser vs Magic Tweak Deniers conversations go. That said:
If a fuse is working properly it doesn’t or can’t have any effect on the sonics of the device. If it’s not working for some reason (manufactured on a Wednesday, utilizing unfortunately moldy beeswax, being disconnected early from a Tesla zillion volt treatment due to a lunch break), I imagine it’s the fuse connection that’s causing the electrons to be bruising their tiny selves by trying to squeeze through ("Imagine" is the key concept in these discussions). Fuses aren’t inherently a "weak" link as even the copper bar analogy (or apparent test) simply implies that the AC gets through to power supplies and other bits to do exactly what it would do anyway. I ain't fallin' for the "obviously better" part, but then I'm afraid to remove my fuses to try it out…don't wanna blow my "class d" rookie system up. This may not make sense to some, but remember, it comes from somebody who doesn’t know what "sweet" treble is…higher calorie? Less squeaky? Old reed on the sax? Old strings on the Telecaster? I can learn much from geoffkait…maybe I should order a bag of magic pebbles. On another note, I'm recommending a recording that sounds Real Good…Jim Campilongo's "Jim Campilongo and Honeyfingers Last Night This Morning." Got it from Jim when I worked with him recently and was blown away at the sonics (and the music) from this 180 gram vinyl version…it has sweet treble…I think...
Oregonpapa, I have found this to be the most interesting thread in the 16 years of my reading A'gon. It has had it all. 1. People accusing others of being shills for SR. 2. The only person who I really thought might be a shill ended up being a doctor, who really loves his mom. And I still wonder about him shill wise. 3. Tons of audiophiles claiming the fuses improve their systems beyond belief without having a clue why. 4. Lots of people wondering if in fact the audiophiles in number 3 above want to be part of something so much that they are imagining changes. 5. The bad bad guy George 6. The medium bad guy who is no longer to be seen here mapman. 7. The really good bad guy Al. 8. The affable ex salesman who started it all (mr papa). 9. An ex NASA guy whose main role other than to discuss wire directionality is not exactly clear. 10. Bees vs graphene. 11. Highly resolving systems costing megabucks that can make the difference clear versus the obviously cheap systems that cannot. 12. The oft quoted mantra that with the 30 day return policy what do you have to lose. The antagonist stating that having to go up in fuse amp ratings you probably will lose your house when it burns down.
I hate to say this, but I have to agree with Geoff, it was the back and forth that has made this so interesting. It is likely that without the dissenters this thread would have dried up long ago. That is not meant to diminish this excellent thread at all, just that you can only say how great a fuse is so many times in so many ways.
Thanks again Oregonpapa and I hope you see the humor in it. George
A fuse is certainly a weak point or limiting portion of the power supply. Try building the whole supply with tiny thin wire the gauge of a fuse and see how she sounds. Yes an exaggerated statement. Yes it is a weak link right? Can we agree on that? Seems obvious, but perhaps I am too simple minded as I know I am amongst some pretty bright folks on this thread.
I don't buy the argument that the span of wire is too short to make a difference. It does based on actual listening results. Seems this is the exact point of which this entire thread is debating.
Fuses are exactly the right size to do what they're supposed to do, work perfectly at this in zillions of applications, and "Special Fuses" are the same size as non special fuses, except SRs maybe since they might contain smaller wire that sometimes mysteriously blows.
Wolf, you keep insisting that a fuse CAN'T effect sonics? Why not? Doesn't AC quality do so? Don't quality power cords do so? Why not the spot where all that AC current is condensed into a frail wire designed to disintegrate upon too much amperage? If that's not the weak link, what is? Al just posted that he doesn't doubt fuses can make a difference in many cases and Paul McGowen of PS Audio expresses his beliefs that improving fuses can lead to improved sound on his site. Two people that I respect their immense electrical/audio knowledge. You on the other hand fly in the face of such knowledge and insist that a properly working fuse CAN'T effect sonics. It would be interesting to learn what it is that you know that apparently no one else does. If you'd rather respond with silliness, that's your prerogative but I'd seriously be interested in your explanation.
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