While I tend to be skeptical of many of the audio tweaks, these fuses sound too good, too relatively inexpensive and too easy to implement, not to try! Thanks for everyone's input regarding them. I'll order mine soon and pass along the results.
Slightly off topic. I've been told that bypassing the fuse all together is even better sounding than using audiophile fuses. I tried it on an old pre I had sitting around by removing the fuse and soldering a piece of wire in its place. I couldn't hear any difference. Should I have used a copper rod instead of wire?
I feel more comfortable using the SR black fuses on my everyday equipment as its safer.......and quite possibly there's something "magical" the fuse imparts that bypassing doesn't?
Thanks to to all for sharing your findings with the rest of us. |
ptss......I appreciate your concern but I would think if there was any danger of the fuses damaging the equipment neither Steve Deckert of Decware nor Paul McGowan of PS Audio would recommend them in their products. Maybe it's an elaborate scheme on their part to get me to destroy my equipment so they can sell me more? ;) |
First off I must admit to being cynical about audiophile fuses but since both my amp and digital source manufacturers ( Decware and PS Audio) advocate the use of them I've taken the leap of faith and ordered Synergistic Research Black fuses for my amp, DAC and transport. I went one value higher for the amp ( 6.3 instead of 5) but stayed with 1 amp for the digital sources. The Cable Company said they would replace any blown fuses within 30 days so I should be safe. Hopefully I'll be as happy as so many here have been.
Synergistic Research or Audio Magic power cords and conditioners are next, does this craziness ever end? ;) |
Neither Decware or PS Audio endorsed any one brand ( actually PS Audio did mention a specific brand in their literature but I don't remember which one) but advocate trying differant brands to obtain the sound you like best. Paul McGowan wrote an article specifically about fuses and how they effect sound quality. I don't have the necessary knowledge to know if or why they work, but I'm willing to put my faith with the many here that love them and more importantly the men who designed my equipment endorsing their use.
My intention wasn't to belittle ptss's response, my response was in jest. My apologies if it came across negatively. I agree that fuses are put in a device only for safety reasons. Pauls article mentions how when designing one of their amps the prototype didn't have a fuse and when one was added for production the sound quality diminished to the point they had to make some design changes to get the prototype sound quality with the fuse. I checked with both manufacturers about fuse values and both said moving up one value wasn't a problem but going higher than the 1 amp for the Perfectwaves wasn't necessary, so I didn't higher values for them.
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Recieved my SR black fuses today for my amp, DAC and transport. Even after just a couple of hours they sound better than the stock fuses. I haven't played with direction yet, figured I'd let them burn in first. I thought my system was quite transparent before.....its even more so now. I don't have a mega buck system but it's sounding quite good and I'm pleasantly surprised that the fuses made an improvement right out of the box, and hopefully will get even better in time. My Decware Torii mkIV and PS Audio Perfectwave PMT and PWD got the new fuses and they feed my Tekton Double Impacts. So I've switched sides from fuse cynic to advocate. I realize this might cause sleepless nights for those that are so concerned over the use of audiophile fuses by others, but I couldn't help myself! |
Thanks Charles,
I'm looking forward to the fuses getting even better.
Yes, the Torii and Tektons do work well together. And yes, I did have the Raven and Yggy. The Raven was quite nice but I like the Torii more. As much as I like the Torri and Tektons, I'll probably be going with Coincident Speaker Super Victory II's with their Frankenstein 300B Monoblocks and their Statement Line Stage. A lot more money, I know but after hearing them I can't get that sound out of my mind. Hopefully that will be the end of my audio equipment merry go round.......wishful thinking I'm sure.......especially since I want the Directstreams.
The Yggy was excellent and only sold it because I like the synergy of the Perfectwaves with their I2S connection. If I ever need another DAC the Yggy would be at the top of my list. |
Charles,
It's only your good taste that allows you to recognize my good taste! Lol. I was my taste was good enough so that I wouldn't have had to spend so much money on this audio journey and instead buy what I really wanted the first time. But then you really don't know what works for you or not until you try out differant components.
I heard the Coincident system at a home and I almost wish I hadn't.....I was just becoming content with my system. I think my current system sounds very good but the Coincident sound is exactly what I'm looking for........a near live performance sound as if you're hearing the actual musicians instead of a recording. IMO nothing beats or matches a live performance but the Coincident system was the closest I've ever heard and I've heard systems costing nearly 10 times that system.......but then I don't need to tell you that, you're already know! Are you using Israels cables also? I ordered his Statement interconnects as I needed a pair and will get his power cords and speaker cables when I'm able to get his Line Stage, Frankensteins and Super Victorys.
Onto day two with the SR fuses. |
Frank,
Thanks to this thread you've started I took the SR Black splurge and even after only about 16 hours I'm happy I did. My system hasn't sounded better. It hasn't been a resounding sound difference......yet......the subtle improvements add immensely to my listening pleasure though. A tad more detail here, clarity there, a bit more air and texture everywhere adds an ambiance I've not heard before.
As to coffee, ive never had a cup. Neither has my wife so we don't even own a coffee maker but your description of your brewing of it almost makes me want to brew some. Or maybe I'll just stick with brewing beer ;) A nice hearty bourbon stout maybe......that's as close to drinking coffee as I've experienced. |
+1 on Andy of Vintage Tube Services. He's a wealth of tube and vintage gear knowledge and a great guy to deal with. My only tube source.
While I just started using tubes last year I've done a decent amount of tube rolling and enjoy the different sound qualiies different tubes bring to the table, especially NOS tubes. A matched quad of 60's NOS RCA 6L6GC's black plates have transformed my amp.....purely magical.
Good point geoffkait. I wonder what people will think if I get small tube dampers to to fit over my fuses? It actually might not be a bad idea! |
Even though I was skeptical regarding if there would be much, if any, sonic improvements when installing SR black fuses I am very pleasantly surprised with what they've added to the sound. Yes, I can definitely hear more details, a more organic texture to notes and better imaging, but the best way I can describe the sound is that it's more real and "right" sounding. It's not as if they transformed the sound of my system, but they've sure made that which sounded very good that much better......and after what I've invested in my system their cost was nearly insignificant. If some want to say that's impossible and I'm crazy for hearing these improvements, so be it and paint me crazy.....and I'll keep enjoying listening to music that sounds better than it ever has in my room.
Thanks to all of those that have shared their positive results with these fuses. Without your enthusiastic reviews I might never have given them a try and I'm soooooo glad I did. |
I certainly don't understand how the SR fuses effect the sound of our components, nor do I understand how it's impossible that they can't do so. Nor do I care. If my investment in the fuses only brought about imaginary acoustical benefits it was well worth it. Measurements and specifications never were real important to me, only the music is.........and to my ears the SR fuses add realism to the music that further my enjoyment greatly.
Conversely, I can understand not being able to believe in that which you can't verify with scientific reasoning or measuring. I can't provide scientific reason as to how SR fuses improve the sound anymore than any scientific reasoning can tell me I'm not hearing what I'm hearing. Seems to be a never ending act of futility for either side to convince the other.
Heres to us believers enjoying our music with the fuses and to those enjoying their music without them. Cheers! |
George,
I wish I knew how to post links, but I don't. But if you google "PS Audio fuses" you'll find two articles written by Paul McGowan regarding fuses. One is simply titled "Fuses" dated 2/29/16 and the other titled "Lighting the Fuse" dated 12/15/11. I don't share this to be combative, but to offer links showing manufacturers stating their belief that fuses can make a positive sonic benefit. Decware does also. I shall find Steve Deckerts thoughts on them and post them.
Quotes from his "Fuses" article....
"Here's a subject that drives some people nuts, fuses." ( Ain't that a fact!)
" I first became aware of fuses and their sonic differences in the 1980's."
" The point of the story is simple. Fuses matter. But why should they matter in an AC circuit? I don't have a great answer handy."
Quotes from "Lighting the Fuse" article.....
" I can't explain why some fuses with the identical wire whisker size sound differant but they surely do- a lot different."
" If your equipment has an internal fuse, give some thought to upgrading it to a better sounding variety."
So while the head of PS Audio clearly believes fuses can make a positive sonic difference, he's at a loss to explain why. He looks at fuses as a necessary safety evil and talks about equipment sounding better without them....but isn't advocating not using them! He also mentions how after spending so much on power cords and improving our power that it is all bottlenecked by a quarter inch of a whisker wire. Looking at it that way maybe the fuse is more important to than we thought?
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Too bad you couldn't have found a nicer amp to put the fuses in lak ;)
i hope it's obvious that I'm clearly joking......the Plinius SA-Reference is an amazing amp and I'm glad to hear you heard an improvement with the SR Blacks. I had the same experience with an immediate sound improvement upon placing the SR Blacks in my amp and later my DAC. And they get even better with time. Thanks for sharing with us, lak. Btw....with all the amazing equipment you have how do you tear yourself away from the listening room?
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Great review jason,your results mirror mine.......and many others. I was extremely skeptical that these fuses could make any difference, let alone the marked improvement they did. I've never played with their direction as my system is sounding so good I don't want to mess with it. Congrats on your success with them and happy listening!
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You make me wish I lived in LA Jason! Beer while listening to good music with music lovers? Nice. Like you I have no idea how these fuses do what they do.......nor do I care. I don't know exactly how most of my equipment works and thankfully that doesn't diminish my joy of listening to it one iota. Hiding the actual cost of our audio obsession from our significant others? Ignorance is bliss, right? :)
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Wolf,
I don't doubt that you don't hear any sonic improvements with the SR fuses, I doubt there's any product that works for everyone. I appreciate you at least gave them a try. I don't understand how you can state that the fuses can't change the sonics of our systems because all they do is pass AC through them. Couldn't the same be said of power cords and other wiring? Paul McGowan of PS Audio has articles on their site that states since the fuse is the bottleneck of the entire AC pathway its small wire which carries the current that supplies our components can have a great impact upon that current. He mentions that early design prototypes of their products didn't have fuses and sounded much better than when they added fuses for the production models. They had to re-design the production model to get it to sound like it did without fuses. Their belief is the best sound is not having a fuse ( something they obviously can't do) with audiophile fuses improving upon the necessary evil of a fuse. I think most agree that components sound better without fuses, wouldn't that suggest that fuses will have an impact on sound? Whether it's better conductivity and/or increased EFI/RFI shielding I could see where the SR fuses could improve upon the weak link in the AC pathway and therefore improving sound quality. While I don't possess the knowledge to explain how SR fuses might work I can see how they could improve the sound and I think Paul McGowan is onto something. Just my two cents worth......with inflation I probably make no cents ( or is that that sense :) |
Meant to type.....Are the SR fuses STILL blowing for no reason? Sorry |
Are the SR fuses blowing for no reason? I have 6 SR black fuses with the same values as the stock fuses they replaced without incident. Might the issue be one that only applied to the early fuses? |
Ptss....I appreciate the effort but none of that answers my question. I'm not asking about directionality, old fuses or other wiring
Since the fuse is the weakest link in the pathway, why wouldn't improving that weak link improve sound quality? It's commonly believed that improving the weak link in a system provides the biggest improvement, why couldnt improving the weak link in the AC pathway bring about improvement? I'm merely asking isn't plausibly possible instead of stating its definitely not possible ( I'm not saying you made that statement but others have)? Isn't it possible?
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Well stated Oregonpapa. When it was stated that fuses COULD NOT improve the sound of a component because all it does is pass AC through it, I asked "Why not?". Doesn't a power cord just pass AC through it? While I'm not sure how the SR fuses work I can think of a few possible reasons they do. Better EFI/RFI shielding? Better conductivity? Better connection with the fuse holder? Some contend that the fuse couldn't possibly matter because it's such a short, thin wire that only passes current and disintegrates when too much current passes through it. I contend, as does Paul McGowen of PS Audio, that's exactly why it's so important as there so much room for improvement. What's so hard in believing that improvement can be made at the point in the AC pathway where its at its weakest? Stock fuses couldn't be made any cheaper than they are. They weren't designed with audio in mind but only to allow so much current through them. Wouldn't improving the AC pathways weakest point provide the greatest possibility in improvement to the pathway? Just asking as I certainly don't proclaim to have the answers. And yes, I can certainly believe not everyone experiences the same results many of us have, but I don't see how it's NOT POSSIBLE that the SR black fuses could improve our sound.
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Thanks Al, your expertise and grace is appreciated. |
Touché uberwaltz, I've asked that question twice without an answer. It's quite simple......with the fuse being the weakest link in the AC pathway, isn't it possible that improving that weak link could bring about sonic improvement? How could improving a cheap devise made only to blow upon excess voltage not improve the signal? I could take it a step further.....it's not only possible but probable. Whether through improved conductivity, better EMI/RFI shielding or both....could it not improve sonic performances?Just to say it's impossible for it to do so seems intellectually dishonest to me....but maybe I'm totally wrong in thinking that improvement upon a thin coil of wire that the AC passes through as it enters our components could possibly improve that components sound.
BTW, Paul McGowen of PS Audio deserves credit for this contention, not me. He refers to the fuse as the AC bottleneck, not weak link, though. |
While I have no problem with those few that don't believe SR black fuses can improve the sound in our audio systems I would like them to answer a simple question I've asked three previous times on this thread without an answer. Maybe I can prevail upon almarg to do so.
Since the fuse is the weakest link in the AC pathway, is it not possible that some improvement....whether it's better conductivity or more EMI/RFI shielding.......could improve the sound of a component? It's not just my assertion that it would but Paul McGowens' of PS Audio also. It seems to me it's at least a possibility. Please tell me why Paul McGowen and I are wrong in thinking so. Thanks. |
Thanks Al, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't think it was at least possible fuses couldn't improve sound, I only called upon you because those that keep saying it isn't possible won't answer and I knew you would provide an informative and balanced answer. While I have experienced sonic benefits from the SR black fuses I can appreciate others didn't but can't understand their insistence that there's no possibility they could.
thanks again Al |
Wolf, you keep insisting that a fuse CAN'T effect sonics? Why not? Doesn't AC quality do so? Don't quality power cords do so? Why not the spot where all that AC current is condensed into a frail wire designed to disintegrate upon too much amperage? If that's not the weak link, what is? Al just posted that he doesn't doubt fuses can make a difference in many cases and Paul McGowen of PS Audio expresses his beliefs that improving fuses can lead to improved sound on his site. Two people that I respect their immense electrical/audio knowledge. You on the other hand fly in the face of such knowledge and insist that a properly working fuse CAN'T effect sonics. It would be interesting to learn what it is that you know that apparently no one else does. If you'd rather respond with silliness, that's your prerogative but I'd seriously be interested in your explanation.
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