I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
I bought two Black fuses for my Electrocompaniet amp. Selected higher than the suggested rating, two steps higher for the one inside the amp. They both blew in three weeks.
There was a difference for sure, more detail in the highs, it was showing problems in that area as well.
After they blew I removed the wrapping on the fuses, there was nothing except some glue in that "mystery dot". Maybe the glue is the thing, who knows.
I’m not getting new ones soon. Going to try some other fuses next.
Kedoades 1-14-2017 Hello, I am thinking of trying one of these black fuses. I see some people are recommending that you go one size up on the fuse, just wondering if this is always safe to do? thanks
Based on the several reports we have seen in this thread of SR Black fuses blowing when they shouldn’t, it seems clear that the unspecified "melting point" of SR Blacks is lower than that of typical stock fuses having the same current rating. ("Melting point" defines the combination of current and duration that if exceeded would cause a fuse to blow, and is expressed in units of amps-squared x seconds). Therefore it seems clear that if for example you were to substitute a "5 amp" SR Black for a 5 amp stock fuse you would in effect be substituting a fuse having a lower rating than 5 amps.
Also, from a technical standpoint it seems to me to be very unlikely that a fault in a component that should cause a fuse to blow would result in a current draw just slightly above the rating of the stock fuse. Especially in the case of a mains fuse, but most likely also in the case of DC rail fuses.
On the other hand, it might be argued that use of a higher fuse rating than stock could invalidate warranty and/or insurance coverage. But that too seems very unlikely. And in any event the same argument could be made even if the same rating as the stock fuse is used, just based on the fact that the upgraded fuse does not have approval from UL and other such agencies.
So IMO there is no problem going up one or two current rating increments. Although some others have expressed differing opinions earlier in the thread, and the post just above indicates that going up one or two increments may not always be enough anyway.
Is it possible that the same electrical characteristics that create the audible differences from these fuses also create the issues with them failing in certain circumstances?
I suppose it's possible that there is some relation between the apparently lower melting points of the SR Blacks, compared to typical stock fuses, and the sonic benefits that have been reported. But in the absence of a good technical understanding of why and how those benefits occur, that stands up when looked at quantitatively, and that accounts for the high degree of consistency that has been reported for those benefits among very diverse applications, I doubt that the question is answerable.
UNBELIEVABLE! This "Synergistic" fuse company selling products so poorly manufactured----- they can't even get the fuse rating right ! High quality fuse manufacturers such as BUSSMANN and LITTELFUSE ,who supply to high tech industries, would be bankrupted with claims. Charlatans and snake oil peddlars should be asshamed of themselves.......
Al, they’re deliberately overrating their fuses, biasing the fuse higher into class-A, so it runs hotter, closer to the melting point, this voodoo will come next.
You take your chances…although I’ve been ranting seemingly for ages against SR’s overpriced examples of possibly dangerous audio tomfoolery, and have occasionally posed the still unanswered question, "why, and how, were they designed to do whatever they do?", the safety issue (as well as the fuse directionality myth and ridiculous imagined sonic benefit claims, as well as obvious commercial promotion by thin skinned "shill seekers") seems unignorable, which isn’t to say it won’t be ignored. "Damn the torpedoes, I want my tonally accurate cellos!" You can claim until the cows come home (they may never come home by the way) that special shoe laces make you walk better, or cryonically treated valve stem caps make your car corner faster, but logic may prevail when reports come in that the laces come untied causing you to fall over, and the valve stems explode causing you to crash. Hypothetically…or maybe not as regards SR fuses. Details schmeetails!
Seeing it’s now fact by many having these SR mains fuses blow, that the melting point (which is the blow point) is wrongly overrated. It’s a wonder you and the others haven’t sprouted other furphy that they are Class-A fuses, therefore closer to the blow (melt) point than a standard fuses are, so they must sound better, because they run so much hotter!! Put that in the audio book of voodoo book along with them being directional as well
BTW if someone puts these in as their + and - DC rail fuses, and one blows before the other, you can say goodbye to that amp if not the speakers as well.
I'm with you wolf, details schmeatails. Some guy on here is even "biasing" his fuse. I think it's a case of the "looney tunes bin "calling 'stridently' - but with a little to much texture--and a 'not quite right' horn-ey sound.
I like the comment by the 'gentle joker' who has switched to Class A fuses.Not. Probably buys regular fuses from reputable,responsible companies like BUSSMAN or LITTLEFUSE. Hopefully anyone reading this thread looking for serious information realizes the Synergistic Fuse = nonsense . Schills,charatans and 'snake oil' purveyors seem to delight,sadly, in bull shite.
I think Thomas Foolery or 'little Johnny' would like to hang out with the endless liars,about Synergistic (crap)fuses ,on this post. Thomas would enjoy the foolery; and little Johnny would chime in with 'it shows you're thinking- idiotic thoughts--but thinking nonetheless.
"geoffkait Seeing it’s now fact by many having these SR mains fuses blow, that the melting point (which is the blow point) is wrongly overrated."
Huh? What’s a fact? "Many" is a relative word. How many? But more importantly, what’s the percentage that blow? How could you posiibly calculate it? We also know the stock non-audiophile fuses blow, too, you know, the Buss fuses and Littelfuses. So, what’s the difference? If things were as bad as you claim how are the aftermarket fuses companies still in business?
Georgelofi wrote,
"It’s a wonder you and the others haven’t stated other furphy that they are Class-A fuses, therefore closer to the blow (melt) point than a standard fuses are, so they must sound better, because they run so much hotter!!"
Oh, brother! Nice try, but that actually doesn’t make sense, that they sound better because they run hotter. What does their temperature have to do with the price of spinach? Why wouldn’t fuses running much hotter actually make the sound worse?
georgelofi wrote,
"Put that in the audio book of voodoo book along with them being directional as well."
How about if I put it in the audio book of funny things people say?
georgelofi wrote,
"BTW if someone puts these in as their + and - DC rail fuses, and one blows before the other, you can say goodbye to that amp if not the speakers as well."
If you say so. But I suspect the operative phrase in that statement is "if someone puts these in...." If I was 6'6' I could have been a basketball star.
"BTW if someone puts these in as their + and - DC rail fuses, and one blows before the other, you can say goodbye to that amp if not the speakers as well." If you say so. But I suspect the operative phrase in that statement is "if someone puts these in...."
Ok I'll rephrase it just for you geoffkait
"BTW should some poor sod put these in as their + and - DC rail fuses, and one blows before the other, you can say goodbye to that amp if not the speakers as well."
ptss 1,153 posts 01-14-2017 5:59pm I like the comment by the ’gentle joker’ who has switched to Class A fuses.Not. Probably buys regular fuses from reputable,responsible companies like BUSSMAN or LITTLEFUSE. Hopefully anyone reading this thread looking for serious information realizes the Synergistic Fuse = nonsense . Schills,charatans and ’snake oil’ purveyors seem to delight,sadly, in bull shite.
Your complaint might have a little more authority if you spell LITTELFUSE correctly.
You might learn how to spell LITTELFUSE correctly when trying to make your point.
Is that all you have Geoff? beside the voodoo you preach?
Hopefully anyone reading this thread looking for serious information realizes the Synergistic Fuse = nonsense . Schills,charatans and 'snake oil' purveyors seem to delight,sadly, in bull shite.
Kedoades, you can obtain Elliott’s recommendation at Synergistic Research. I had to move from a 5 to an 8 amp slo-blo fuse due to the immense size of my custom amp’s capacitors. He recommended the same as rated size fast blow fuses for my solid state 1978 Yamaha receiver and ADS speakers (for the tweeters). He also recommended a 4 amp instead of 3 amp standard slo-blo fuse for my Dynaco Stereo 70 (modified) which is a tube amp. So, it is equipment dependent as to using the same size versus larger size fuse. The fuses on both amps changed the sound 100% for the better-superb after 150 hours of use.
Yes, the trolls are out tonight. I don't care for the definitive reason(s) for the SR fuses *and duplex outlets) making my amps creating sound in my listening rooms that are so superlative versus just very good, everyone who has heard the result can testify that they never heard a better sounding audio system. I don't have SOTA equipment, but it's high end gear, wiring and tweaks (all my stillpoints, hallographs and isolation transformer).
Why are these trolls so interested in our (high end) fuse users welfare?
First off I must admit to being cynical about audiophile fuses but since both my amp and digital source manufacturers ( Decware and PS Audio) advocate the use of them I've taken the leap of faith and ordered Synergistic Research Black fuses for my amp, DAC and transport. I went one value higher for the amp ( 6.3 instead of 5) but stayed with 1 amp for the digital sources. The Cable Company said they would replace any blown fuses within 30 days so I should be safe. Hopefully I'll be as happy as so many here have been.
Synergistic Research or Audio Magic power cords and conditioners are next, does this craziness ever end? ;)
Dear mac. How nice the company says it replace your blown fuse. And why shouldn't they? The profit margin is so "out of this world" that if they provide 1/2 dozen they're still basking in profit Far more important - who's going to bear the expense of repairing your precious equipment if the fuse fails to late?? If production is sloppy enough to blow to early; my friend Reason says it's sloppy enough to blow to late. Where I'm from, when we see a grown man doing something foolish, we don't wish them good luck; instead simply,wise up.
ptss......I appreciate your concern but I would think if there was any danger of the fuses damaging the equipment neither Steve Deckert of Decware nor Paul McGowan of PS Audio would recommend them in their products. Maybe it's an elaborate scheme on their part to get me to destroy my equipment so they can sell me more? ;)
Just curious, did Decware and PS Audio simply recommend the Synergistic brand in general, or did they specifically suggest you use a larger value fuse than originally chosen for the gear?
That's how I read ptss's post. The ONLY reason to have a fuse in a piece of electrical equipment in the first place is for safety -- to protect the equipment from more damage than necessary if a component fails, and also for the safety of users. Fire and shock hazards are always a risk if the wrong component in an electrical device fails.
Neither Decware or PS Audio endorsed any one brand ( actually PS Audio did mention a specific brand in their literature but I don't remember which one) but advocate trying differant brands to obtain the sound you like best. Paul McGowan wrote an article specifically about fuses and how they effect sound quality. I don't have the necessary knowledge to know if or why they work, but I'm willing to put my faith with the many here that love them and more importantly the men who designed my equipment endorsing their use.
My intention wasn't to belittle ptss's response, my response was in jest. My apologies if it came across negatively. I agree that fuses are put in a device only for safety reasons. Pauls article mentions how when designing one of their amps the prototype didn't have a fuse and when one was added for production the sound quality diminished to the point they had to make some design changes to get the prototype sound quality with the fuse. I checked with both manufacturers about fuse values and both said moving up one value wasn't a problem but going higher than the 1 amp for the Perfectwaves wasn't necessary, so I didn't higher values for them.
64 pages... this must be a record...I (obviously) haven't read every single post on every single page, but has anyone asked why not ALL manufacturers use these fuses in their components if they make their units sound better? If it were me, I would definitely signed a volume purchase contract with SR just to get some advantage over my competition. Sounds stupid?
^^^ Let's say it costs $2500 to manfacture an amp. The factory sells it to the dealer for $5000. The dealer then sells it at retail for $10,000.
If you were the manufacturer, you would have to double the price of the fuse to the dealer and, the dealer in turn, would have to double the price of the fuse when selling the piece of equipment to the end consumer.
Now then, in the case of the high end fuse: The factory buys the fuse for $50.00 ... 50% of retail. The factory increases the price to the dealer by $100. The dealer then turns around an sells the piece of equipment marked up by another $200 to cover the new fuse.
As an end consumer, I would rather pay retail of $100 for the after market fuse than pay $200 for it placed in my new piece of equipment for me at the factory.
oregonpapa is smokin some more of his "special blend"--probably the most valuable component in his listening arsenal. And the poster trying to say 2 manufacturers recommended these junk fuses has backed off promptly when asked for clarification. Again, it's shameful that some unconscionable types, charlatans,snake oil salesman continue pushing bull shite
but has anyone asked why not ALL manufacturers use these fuses in their components if they make their units sound better? If it were me, I would definitely signed a volume purchase contract with SR just to get some advantage over my competition. Sounds stupid?
+1 kalali
If they did, when all this b/s voodoo is finally realized, then they’d be tared with the same brush, and never ever be trusted again.
But SR has never stated in posts or writing themselves, that "these fuses will make your audio sound better", they’ve left it up to the audiophiles gullible "expectation bias" to sell them and keep the BS voodoo sales alive.
BTW Have you noticed that the directionality talk of these fuses has dropped totally,"the signs they are a changin" Dylan. Cheers George
Those of you who are fuse doubters have again come around to tell us we are suffering from mass delusion during our listening evaluations. Let me assure you--our experience of enhanced clarity and presence is based in a perceptual reality well within the margins of the lunatic fringe you enjoy placing us in. Perhaps an important reason why we hear these improvements and you have not, if you have even tried, is that you must have a system supplied by a generous and quiet power supply and components served by ultra pure conductors. Components, whether of mid or hi-fi quality, must be thoroughly isolated from mechanical vibrations to provide further clarity of sound. Along with room improvements, the system containing better fuses and that is supported in these ways will be lifted to perceptive improvements unmistakeable by even you, but these fundamental things must be done right. In these times of fake news, there is truth found right here, on this thread, told by many fellow audiophiles who don't make a habit of spreading fakery, rather, they appreciate hearing the positive results others have experienced when using better fuses. My best wishes to you in finding that truth.
Uh...right…although it has been claimed by premium fuse Athletic Supporters that the wonders of SR fuses can be realized in even crappy gear. That’s right. The wonderfulness is always there because it’s baked in…"lifted to perceptive improvements unmistakable by even you." Yeah man, EVEN YOU…no not you…but maybe you…although not me. I guess my components aren’t being served by ultra pure conductors except maybe Pierre Boulez, although you can’t really be so sure even about that guy, although conductors are generally directional.
I would think if there was any danger of the fuses damaging the equipment neither Steve Deckert of Decware nor Paul McGowan of PS Audio would recommend them in their products.
This reminded me of a conversation I had with the folks over at Ayre several years ago about some of their equipment I owned. As a major manufacturer of audio equipment in the USA, Ayre is well-known for both their consistent design philosophies and for the importance they place on listening tests in the final "voicing" of their broad range of products.
We were discussing "audiophile" fuses and I was told their internal discussions had yet to define how they might respond to the warranty coverage of their gear, if damage was determined to have occurred because the equipment was not adequately protected by such fuses. At that time, I remember discussing that the concern was related to the lack of testing and potential consistency issues with the aftermarket fuses, compared to the tried and true Bussmann and Little type fuses.
To be clear, I have no idea of Ayre's current viewpoint on aftermarket or audiophile fuses. Based on the quality of their equipment, I doubt a small variance in fuse value would put their equipment at risk and, based on the quality of their reputation, I suspect they may very well cover damage to their still-under-warranty equipment, even if an aftermarket audiophile fuse was used, with the exception of gross negligence. The point of this post is that, even a few short years ago, a top manufacturer not only did not embrace the use of audiophile fuses in their gear, but showed some concern for the suitability of such fuses to do the job intended.
OTOH, and in fairness of an opposing viewpoint, I have done several projects with Steve McCormack, another well-respected designer of excellent sounding electronic equipment, and he embraces the differences/improvements he hears from audiophile fuses and includes them in his products. In my experience, he does not recommend just one type/manufacturer, but instead has determined that different fuses can work best in different locations within the equipment (i.e., line fuses vs. rail fuses), so he uses the fuse he believes sound best for the specific application.
Jafree enjoy your stuff but don’t forget that opinion is neither fact nor news and definitely not universally accepted truth about any particular fuse product.
For example its been pointed out multiple times by others how merely changing or reseating a fuse and improving the contact as a result can have a perceivable effect. Having examined fixed or changed many a fuse for customers in year's past I can vouch for that easily.
Also there are many who do not spread fakery but there are also others who unquestionably do.
I have no problem with people who hear a difference or like the fuses for whatever reason. I have problem when they assert things as truth however as a result meanwhile discounting or denying other assertions that challenge the case.
Asserting things that are questionable as truth is a common marketing ploy used to influence people to buy. That’s a pretty safe assertion that cannot be discounted don’t you think?
That’s another phoney troll argument. I don’t use or even own any satellites but I know all about them. Knowledge is power, troll. Have you given any consideration to going back to school?
The Argument from Ignorance (also, Argumentum ad Ignorantiam): The fallacy that since we don’t know (or can never know, or cannot prove) whether a claim is true or false, it must be false (or that it must be true). E.g., “Scientists are never going to be able to positively prove their theory that humans evolved from other creatures, because we weren't there to see it!
Jafreeman Some on this thread keep worrying about us that are enjoying our elevated sounds systems for the price of a few tank fulls of gas, maybe they want us to invest mega dollars in other things. We keep saying our hearing is ok, we are not smoking the wacky weed, we haven't had any mental trauma's recently. Yet they still come on here a show a big concern for us. Oh how sweet it is! Maybe it is because they don't hear us very well. That could be it because they keep saying the same thing over and over and over. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and over and over. Well I guess it is nice they care for us.
3199 responses to this post. I just had to make it an even 3200. Also, this post makes me happy that I bought a pair of Pass Lab monoblocks. No Fuses; Thermal magnetic breakers.
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