glupson >>>
Your colleague should study the difference between perfect and imperfect markets. :-) Frank |
At Axpona 2019 Ted himself put on a demonstration of his products then took them out of the equation....sorry but didn't hear the improvement he said he heard. Others in the room when we left said they were baffled as well.I can hear a difference between sheets of paper on the platter. I was there too and did not hear a difference. |
I have a feeling that it is already decided in the most of this group that whatever that Ted does will be correct and that the other guy will be humiliated. According to one poster earlier, what Ted hears is not exactly what multiple other people hear. Instead of offering whatever to the other guy, why not offer it to some impartial observers with no vested interest? |
| Post removed |
georgehifi ... Again, Georgie ... follow me around for a week as a real estate salesman, and I'd have you reduced to a pool of tears within days. You wouldn't be able to stand the rejection that has to be eaten for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Anything else, Georgie?? Frank |
About time some companies call the naysayers out in public. How much more public do you want!!! Here is about as good as it’s going to get. We’ve been asking SR themselves to come onto these forums and back up what you fusers say about their "snake oil" mains fuses and their inserted direction for ages. And not one of them responded. Some of us "naysayers" have even emailed them to come. Like I said, they are "snake oilers" and the audio equivalent of real estate or used car salesman Cheers Naysayer |
| Post removed |
I think Gene should take Ted up on his offer. Otherwise, Ted will end up with every dollar that Gene owns. Well-intentioned criticism is one thing ... but falsely disparaging products and threatening the lively hood of another by trying to ruin a business with negative, bull-shit phone calls to Ted’s dealers is beyond the pale. If you’re reading this Gene, wake up man, you are about to get your ass sued off. Frank |
Gene’s comment was totally rude and uncalled for. He is not the end-all grandaddy of audio measurements...and even if he was, the tone of his message was deliberately impolite. If he had simply asked for some products to test and shared verifiable test results, that would have been fine. I certainly hope Gene doesn’t chicken 🍗 out. He must take this challenge. Else his reputation will be at stake along with the validity of the Audioholics YouTube channel and website. This challenge is perfectly reasonable. He’s even willing to pay for air travel and accommodations! "I'll give ya some money so you can go out to eat, pay for Uber, hotel" - like Gene is his Son 🤣 |
This will never happen. Gene will not accept this challenge. Mr. $37,541 GOFUNDME will come up with some bullsh*t excuse to try to save face. At least with SR if you spend $5000 you get a top quality cable in return. The guys who donated $1000, $5000 to Gene, what did they get in return? Bupkis... Who's the real snake-oil salesman here... |
douglas_schroeder <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Back to the partial reviews again Doug? I keep reading how "Your Way’ is the right way. Is this another hook up and listen for a night or two and move the cables or product to another system? Doug your way, is you way. That is all it is... I don’t think it’s a GREAT way or even a GOOD way to listen to equipment. 49 years of listening for a living, not for FUN, or because I was interested, BUT because it was how I put food on the table. I learned there is a right way, the wrong way, your way and my way. BUT there is still only one correct way. You or I don’t have to do it either. AS a professional listener and one that had to make 100K equipment repairs and all the time DOWN is paying 30-40k per day in liquidated damages. You better be able to HEAR the difference and make a good call on part. It is not a subjective thing at ALL.. you’re either taught by someone or you don’t learn the skill. The same with critical listening and music.. SR has a money back policy. Why would a owner of a 12 million dollar a year company let a person review his product when in reality he KNOWS (not wonders, or is even deluded into thinking) ANYTHIG favorable would come out of it.. How could YOUR ideas of testing help (understand the word HELP) his company? I admire one thing Doug, you got some HUGE BALLS... Brass I suspect. Your legs must be as big as my waist carrying those big ol sucker around.. :-) Regards |
Its a very complex equation to hear subtleties in a strange room with different gear and so on. Some of us are wired to do this as a profession. Eg, Taras, the other half of Teo Audio, his job has been to do exactly that thing. To be one of the best at it, the one called in when all the other pros fail. He’s the only one who give guarantees in the contract. all the others are so nervous about their skill set that almost no acoustics firm at the high end pro level will give guarantees and refunds on paper. They simply walk out the door and refuse the contract. Taras is, IMO, the ultimate acoustics ’cooler’. Hire him if you want the best. He’s not getting any younger and the skill set is not transferable. Peak skill is like that. Anyway, his job is to analyze the acoustics of any space and convert it to the perfect soundstage for human speech intelligibility, for the myopic and idiotic microphone. Which just happens to be perfect for high end audio acoustics and systems. To explain the whole envelope or complexity of issues at hand with where one heard a difference in the Axpona room - or not, we enter not just into the science of the complexities.... but we also enter the area of strong potentials in personal butthurt... regarding ego and clan position. Emotions, on the personal level and how this colors thought. And more. Extra ugly bonus points: Music is about emotions so we process down in the animal levels on this one, the coloring and filtering area of the mind, the animal baggage, the fundamental filtering (of all in/out) areas. It becomes a ’why am I not smart?’ kind of issue. It goes deep into human psychology with all of the complex mess in earlier posts as part of the equation. Hearing is not perfectly equatable to general intelligence, as variants exist like a smart person being physically weak or vice-versa. eg, to go into the room at Axpona and hear nothing is not all that surprising. To go into the room and train one’s ears over a few days, then one hears it. One might hear it minimally, vestigially, or even grossly or intensely. Then... as one spends months at it, like working out at the gym, one end up with what is perceived as a ’great difference’. Or one might not have the physiology/psychology to get ’bulked up’ in one’s hearing ...or has a different cognitive direction, or hearing design and physical package. Then... at that point ...one might deign to decide if that difference, in level of intensity or type/nature... is important to a person. Me? I’ve done this so long and in so may directions and ways, that when I’m peaked out, like an athlete at perfect prime, who is fully prepped to take on the most strenuous task possible (which ain’t all the time!).... I can generally tell what kind of speaker is in the given room at the show (crossover type, box type, ported, sealed, panel, single full range, etc), what kind of amplifier/system, tube or solid state, feedback or not, what kind of acoustics are in the room, etc. All that from outside the room, near the doorway. Like learning to see waldo quickly in the given image, it’s a skill. The kind that people can learn. We can each complete tasks to various levels and so on. Learning. Retention. Capacity. Individualism. Humanity’s curse and most potent savior/future. |
Audioholics membership and participation will go up and synergistic sales will inch up. It’s just one of those human things. "I don’t care what they say about me, as long as they say about me." There have been some studies done recently where the results seemed to illustrate that limited rewards cause the highest levels of energetic involvement/engagement, in people. That tenacity thing again. In all of it’s complex origins and outward expressions. (The studies were partially tied to gaming on line, large player groups. Where something akin to the least rewards were tied to the highest levels of player participation. That dang monkey on the Serengeti plains keeps running the underlying biological carrier system) |
How I love shootouts at high noon! But alas they never seem to happen, or they happen but somehow wilt into something far less than spurs and sixguns. Teo_audio nailed it. I will say - it appears there’s quite a lot of nastiness coming from both of these guys (Ted and Gene), and they seem to be bringing it on themselves. And - anybody who thinks machine measurements are the only factors in acoustics and psychoacoustics fails to understand that in addition to the system itself and the measuring tools, there are at least five senses, a brain, and a consciousness involved. Below is an interesting quote. I don’t quote this or cite this paper to say it’s proof or the last word on sound perception. I’m just offering it as one of many papers that point to human perception as a major factor in what we hear, beyond technically measured factors. “This paper approaches auditory analysis from the standpoint of sound production. It argues that although air vibration produces sound, sound is not air vibration; and that exploitation of features of air vibration can hardly (if ever) lead to accurate understanding of the principle of the auditory mechanism in speech or music perception.” https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Body-Image-Theory-of-Sound%3A-An-Ecological-to-%23-Essien/... |
The saddest things of all is if someone or some company creates a near perfect item or piece or whatever, an amp or a speaker or a cable or a DAC or cartridge or what have you... ..there is nowhere for it to go, to fit, to belong. As everything extant is generally lopsided to some degree. These things do not exist in isolation, and they have to work with other pieces or components. Then we add in the individual hearing part that is connected to all of this. How complex and individually driven, individually designed or built in the mind. How individual hearing is. Then the part about it being connected to general neural complexity or capacity of the given mind. So the variants (comparable to intelligence curves/plots) available in hearing... amount to some 7.6 billion variants. Then the added point that we don’t really know all there is to know about humans, or hearing, or air pressure conversions to electrical signals, or measuring electrical signals with respect to what is important in audio and so on. All these subjects are still being explored and change in their fundamentals and available data to analyze, almost by the day. Stone does not exist, it can't be written in stone, nothing is written in stone... as dogma/stone is the science and human advancement killer (dogma makes it go circular and dead), even though it (dogma) is a part of the experience of life, part of the irremovable rose colored glasses of human mind conscious thought, the mental intake and projection. Especially when in groups. Dogma is for societal constructs and has no place in science. Science is change, it is the buddhist walk down the road, the steps taken, the journey. This (whole envelope of issues and scenarios in situ) is a recipe for disaster when it comes to agreement among clans or camps. |
For the most part, I don’t think this is going to change anyone’s mind about anything...... When entrenched, the human psyche, when under pressure, tends to become more entrenched. It’s a ’bite down harder’ kinda thing, a ’more tenacity required’ kind of function of the overall design. Every now and then some folks do change their minds about things, but in their own way, in private ways and spaces, out of sight, in a good frame of mind ..where thinking clearly is possible....not in any environment where public face is involved. Where as soon as public face is involved ...egos are involved... and then positions in the given monkey clan are at threat... as such considerations are notably built out of clan position aspects. Individuals can be fine. They can get past the bodily created and carried issues. Groups? Groups...are a monkey mess, for the most part. Intelligent people in idiot groupings. Happens all the time. |
https://giphy.com/gifs/popcorn-reaction-this-gonna-be-good-tFK8urY6XHj2w The comments on this challenge on their forum are exactly as one would expect... https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/synergistic-research-challenge-to-audioholics.121831/ |
| Post removed |
@douglas_schroeder Unless I'm mistaken, I have not commented on the performance on any given specific cable, or system of cables? Nor have I made any claim to having a global understanding of cables. I was merely asking for clarification as to why the entire signal path requires a singular cable manufacturers product in order to be able to ascertain its efficacy. And why a systemic approach is required in one instance and not in an other. And I think you said that Ted wanted the two reviewed as a "system"? He is the manufacturer, is he not? I am very much enjoying your opportunistic and over the top self promotion. Quite a segue from a discussion around a video where a manufacturer calls out a, not sure what to call Gene, oh right, a reviewer! A segue to where you are promoting a, wait for it, review of gear that is completely unrelated and irrelevant to the topic at hand. As an aside, didn't Krell have protective circuitry on there KSAs series amps back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, amps were powered by their own dedicated nuclear plant and cooled with by a nearby waterfall? |
