joyeuses Paques, Mon Ami!
Stereophile review of the $30,000 tekton speakers
We have had many discussions/arguments over tekton speakers in the past, mainly involving a couple posters who thought their $4000 tektons sounded better than the highest price Wilson’s and other high budget speakers.
In the latest Stereophile magazine, they did a review of the $30,000 tekton’s. In this Steteophile issue, they rate these $30,000 tekton’s as class B. When you look at the other speakers that are in the class B section, you will notice most of these speakers range in price from $5000-$8000. So it looks like you have to spend $30,000 on a pair of tekton’s to equal a pair of $5000 Klipsch Forte IV’s sound quality.
If I compare these $30,000 class B tekton’s, to some of the class A speakers, there are some class A speakers for 1/2 the price (Dutch & Dutch 8C, Goldenear triton reference), or other class A speakers that are cheaper (Magico A5, Kef blade 2).
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@arafiq YOU have NAILED it. It is funny how this particular speaker brand thread gathers so much attention. I was considering Tekton when I was looking to replace my then loudspeakers. Tons of folks like them, so I can assume that sound quality had to be really good. But ultimately I knew that I would not be able to manage them in my space because of their size and looks. As far as humility is concerned, I wish we had more designers like Ralph of Atma-sphere.
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The last time i discussed with Amir for a week here he confused Fourier maps of sound with perceived sound. And he confused Fourier linear time domain with human brain non linear time domain. People believe in their idols... They forgot using their tools that they progressively become their slaves and no more their owners. AcousticS rules audio not people taste nor the electrical tools...Certainly not price tags... 😊
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I listen to music every night from 12 to 2 am and immediately fall asleep after a listening session, regardless of dynamics (but not most rock). I tube roll once, generally stick to the tubes chosen by the manufacturer but listen to my friends who have taken the time to find the best choices (they stick with their choices and stop rolling) . We are music listeners and not people who choose to play as audiophiles often do. Now I have another poster who wasn’t in love with the Focals either. I hope more listeners purchase Tekton’s lower cost speakers instead of overpriced and/or underperforming speakers. I know of quite a few which I wouldn’t accept for free. I am possibly too sensitive on Audiogon after having over 1,400 posters on two forums concerning measurements and musicality of components and ancillary equipment with Amir from Audio Science Review going NUTS on those forums expounding on why he is always right and his acolytes confirming whatever he says (and throwing the other Audiogon members off his site if they mention cabling, fuses, footers, etc). I would prefer your Tekton speakers on axis over many local high end systems I’ve heard which despite their high prices, wanted me to run away (bad system matching, big Wilson Alexandrias & good equipment but just resolution and unrelenting, Avant Garde Trios/triple Basshorns/REL subs with bad cabling and worse electronics, etc). P.S. I would never have purchased my Legacy speakers without having heard them at friend’s homes first, or the Von Schweikerts. |
I've never pursued Tekton because there is nowhere in New England to hear them. That being said it's always been my experience that you get what you pay for with equipment. The phrase that's turned me off- "for the money." I've always equated that with having to flip them. McIntosh used a ton of drivers too and people really like those. Look forward to hearing a pair someday. |
Maybe bipolarized audiophiles are? |
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fleschler, I am a humble person. I believe and adhere to time, place and manner. When I get word that a new thread is unfolding on Audiogon that has a few of the usual suspects painting me and our products in a false light I'm obligated to respond. I don't wish to be on here. Based upon time, place and manner my response to a negative situation unfolding (something I did not start but feel obligated to respond) compels me to assertive and succinct. I'm simply being assertive and succinct. IMO, humility and pride really isn't in play or on display here; we're simply getting accurate information conveyed. |
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There are alot of wonderful speakers out there at $30k..at this price point it comes down to personal preference, system matching and and more than a few positive demonstrations. In fact, I own speakers in this price range and it only has one tweeter and one woofer so horses for courses. I wish Tekton well and hope the new model is commercially successful.
A piece of free advice though, and this example only applies to me, but I’ve heard the Focals to which you compare and I did not find them attractive soncially to my ears. Others hear differently and will likely have a different opinion. |
....some cars are like mistresses.......be ready to apply $s' to go play..... 30K$'s for a pair that get rated a 'B'.....😒 Even if I'd 30K to dispense, it'd be for 'else'.... I like my 'trash'.....if I break it, I don' and won't have a major fit over it....and my diy's I half expect to fry to find where those 'issues' lie....and they come with a lifetime warranty.... Mine. ;) |
@tektondesign YOU are NOT a humble person. I am not savvy concerning electronics and have NOT insulted your typical bargain priced speakers. My query sounds to some other posters like mine, the same speaker cannot sound the same at double and triple the impedance but the amplifier can do the same to any speaker based on its ability to do so. 31 speakers available on their site. Does anyone believe that intensive engineering work was done on each of these designs? The basic design is maintained but can it be so simply applied to so many speakers? Probably not. Note that there was a long discussion concerning the owner running the company (apparently by himself). https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/an-objective-review-of-the-tekton-double-impact-speakers?sort_order=asc After hearing over 1000 speakers over decades, being both an amateur musician and recording engineer at major L.A. venues of an orchestra, chamber works and choirs, preferring live unamplified acoustic music (and many genres of music from Baroque Classical to Electronica), having a 55,500 LP/CD/R2R/78 recording collection, friends with world renown remastering engineers, I have my own viewpoint on sound reproduction supported by several equipment manufacturers (good friends). Taken as a whole, the expensive Tekton speakers have some negative anomalies. In the Double Impact Stereophile review, while overwhelmingly positive this stuck out "The Impact Monitor's vertical radiation pattern suggests that the speaker needs to be listened to within a narrow window centered on the central tweeter axis if the midrange balance is not to sound colored." This is what I observed with them. Opposite to my Sig 3s and especially my VS VR9s which maintain wide and even dispersion (look at that Fig.5 graph)! Enjoy the Music gave the Moab a great review but warned concerning a manufacturer with "50!" different speakers (generally purchased unheard, chosen by price and size/use). So, I suggest that if there are that many speakers at so many low prices, the margins must be rather small even with the low cost components. Such a manufacturer would be hard pressed to design a "great" $30K speaker unless some major upgrade to the design, cabinetry or parts (drivers, crossovers) are considered (some or all). From what I read, it appears that the mid-range array is designed to bounce sound off the walls and around the room. I prefer a more direct mid-range sound display and less room sound. |
mapman, consider this... audiophiles tend to be very consistent and predictable in their listening habits. Our larger models are already hovering over 95dB with a single Watt. Next, there are quality amplifiers produced today with low distortion numbers into 2 Ohms. Since audiophiles tend to listen the same from day-to-day and rarely anywhere near full volume running into 2 Ohms on a 95dB+ loudspeaker extrapolates to effortless sound produced at low volumes and more potential when called upon. |
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That’s OK. I’ll take it for what’s it worth. I can see where a 2 ohm speaker could easily sound like a 8 ohm speaker, but I would attribute that to the amp being a champ, not the speakers. Wouldn’t happen with just any amp. I tend to agree with another vendor here who asserts an amp will always distort less with a higher impedance speaker than a low impedance speaker because it does not have to work as hard. That makes sense to me. The question will be how much more? With a champ amp that’s up to the task at hand it may not matter much if at all.
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markor6457, Thanks for sharing! Loved hearing about your brothers speakers too. You are probably aware that we love Wilson Audio - they’re across town from us. I’ve had three of their past employees on my team. |
mapman, Trust me here... it's being done and I am under no obligation to share how any of it's done beyond what I've said already.Sadly, high-end audio tends to lag behind car audio, pro audio, and consumer audio developments. As an example, I did my first 1/2 Ohm stereo in 1993. Over here today, we're putting the finishing touches on a new 1 Ohm audiophile subwoofer. LOL! I can see it now... some folks will singing it's praises and others will be shouting Tekton is committing another audiophile heresy. |
I've had my Moabs (regular version) for 2 years and after 30 years in this hobby, having owned a dozen major brand speakers, consider them to be the the best of the bunch. They check all the audiophile boxes for me and come very close to the scale, dynamics and immediacy of hearing live music. They also readily reveal any changes in your upstream setup. Admittedly, I am a budget audiophile - the Moabs were my most expensive speaker purchase. BUT my well-heeled brother, who owns Wilson MAXX, says the Moabs are every bit as musically satisfying as his Wilsons. So much so, that he bought the Encores for his second home. |
I would be interested in the answer to the question about supposedly claimed "same" sound when built with different impedance characteristics by design. No clue how that can be. I would think the amp used alone would be a big factor in resulting sound with 2 ohm nominal impedance versus 8. Not buying that without some explanation, but if none that’s OK. |
I concur with the post of arafiq... I had no opinion and no idea for or against Tekton... But his speakers are innovative...Who can debate this? And the troubadour is in my price range and my needs for example... then this designer offer a product of quality for all ... Each had his taste, his needs, his specific room and his budget ....
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Do we ask all designers to prove their designs on a public forum? I was not a fan of that one member who was forcing Tekton down everyone's throats in a very crass manner. That's like letting Kanye West continue to represent Adidas. But let's not take our anger out on the 'shoe' itself. I don't know but I get the feeling that many of us are letting our distaste for the said individual influence our views on Tekton. I think it's a great American brand providing audiophile quality products at all price points. The amount of scrutiny and outright hatred that Tekton receives on this site will make any designer defensive. We're all human and this level of negative energy will affect any of us badly. Having said that, a little humility shown by the Tekton owner won't do any harm either, just sayin' :) |
fleschler, I'm being assertive. I have designed "a speaker to behave optimally at three different impedances." You'd have to travel here or buy all six needed to hear if for yourself. |
@tektondesign You did not answer my question how you can design (redesign) a speaker to behave optimally at three different impedences. I would not compare your Ulfberht to Focals as I have heard neither of them and my friends and I are not partial to Focal speakers, so maybe your speakers would be more amenable to us. I reserve judgement but you are taking a very abrasive attitude. If you think that your $30K speaker is equal or superior to the Von Schweikert speakers at $65K, you are not mistaken but being dishonest. The technology and quality of construction is superior. I've heard inexpensively constructed speakers sound great, among them the Acora Acoustics which have two speakers in the same range as your $30K. I've heard them with lesser equipment and they are outstanding in their delivery of tight, deep, textured bass, very dynamic and with no negative qualities. They apparently utilize a few inexpensive paper drivers. I've heard that the materials cost is as low as $7K for the SC speakers. They are not my flavor but I could live with them as well as easy to drive. Physically, they are very attractive. |
fleschler, How can you say all this without having auditioned the Moabs or Ulfberhts? Albert Von Schweikert was focused on the Ulfberht model. It was the only speaker we talked about. I’ve said it already... the Ulfberht gives nothing away to the Focal Grand Utopia - I believe that’s $.03 to the $1.00 [$.0357 to the $1.00 to be exact]. You say "I don’t know ANY speaker manufacturer who would or could take a multi-driver dynamic speaker and simply change it to perform the "same" at 2, 4 or 8 ohms." The facts are you don’t know us, our sound, and you don’t know me (something in your best interest going forward) - this is what we do and it’s how we roll. |
@tektondesign I never said that the Pendragon wasn't a good buy for most listeners. It's price as most Tekton speakers are in the more affordable to even inexpensive range. That Albert Von Schweikert complimented your design does not indicate that his perception that they were anywhere near his quality of speakers of which I have heard half a dozen from $4K to $325K and own one in the middle as well as my best friend's lower end model. The $30K speaker is a whole different subject. Mr. Von Schweikert did NOT hear that one. He was commenting and probably complimenting you on your affordable speaker line. I don't know ANY speaker manufacturer who would or could take a multi-driver dynamic speaker and simply change it to perform the "same" at 2, 4 or 8 ohms. I would greatly appreciate how that is electrically possible. Or are they receiving different sound from each different impedance speaker? |
mapman, LOL! Sound is subjective. Taste in music covers the spectrum. We all have our individual HRTF. Some can hear well enough but can’t discern. IMO, the perfect loudspeaker isn’t coming along any time soon. |
yogiboy, Thanks! Our brand [Tekton] is polarizing to some audiophiles; even to the point that a few hate what we stand for. Understand the worlds most acclaimed loudspeakers are actually visual pieces of art that second as a high-performance loudspeaker. We don't follow/adhere to this set of rules and it allows us to offer products that sound as good for a lower price. Our gig is manufacturing affordable high efficiency audiophile grade loudspeakers. This approach requires no frills pro audio drivers, a utilitarian form following function design, cost effective size and weights to ease shipping costs, a painted finish that does the job and doesn't break the bank.Next we have the patented tweeter array doing the finest midrange you'll ever hear; some believe it looks amazingly functional and cool and others cannot wrap their brain around the concept so they pooh-pooh on our products without listening.Eric Alexander - audio designer |
Let’s be very clear, he put a lot of various products on radar with effusive praise before he had even heard them…. Like i say, pick your supposed expert (s) carefully. There are lots of small sample size audiophiles out there… and more gear changers…dac dejour comes readily to mind…. Finally…integrity matters… Duke busted Chuck editing and deleting posts so as to call me a “ liar “. I don’t hate him…i actually pity his lack of ethics and self esteem. He got banned for good reasons. Best to ALL in the pursuit of music. Jim |
fleschler, Every version of the Pendragon is available in 2 Ohms, 4 Ohms, and 8 Ohms. We let our clients decide which one is best for their needs and we don't alienate anyone. |
fleschler, You'll never believe this one... we also have a few "renown remastering engineers" for clients - Grammy winners in fact. |
fleschler, I’m reminded how Albert Von Von Schweikert personally called me prior to his passing to congratulate me on our revolutionary technology. Albert got how important this is... you're not in that place. I also understand how some people might not be interested in "perfect midrange" - RMAF 2019 |
The video of the Pendragon's is from a very reputable reviewer. I don't doubt that the Pendragon's sound is very good and are really inexpensive. However, the caveat is that despite a benign impedance curve, they require a very stable and high quality amplifier to drive them. For comparison, my Legacy Signature IIIs have a lowest impedance of 3.2 ohms, nominal 4 ohms, 94.6 db efficiency (tested) and can be powered by a Sherwood 7100 receiver of 17 solid state watts to sound quite impressive (how I bought them). While I am using a 35 watt Dynaco ST 70 extreme modified (voltage regulated/not ultralinear) with tremendous bass with these speakers which reach down to 16 Hz with 3-10" woofers and a rear firing tweeter, I have also used them with EAR 890 and my 125 watt tube monoblocks. All of these amps are significantly less expensive than the Luxman. If I owned the Pendragon, I would buy a stable, quality used amp. Otherwise, this is Tekton's meat and potatoes, quality speakers at low prices, without the aesthetics of most other brand dynamic speakers sans grills. Notice the reviewer also indicated that these large speakers sound best in large rooms. As to their $30K speaker, no. I now own Von Schweikert VR9 SE Mk2. My best friend has the VS VR35 Export. Sure there is a big difference in scale, bass and resolution but they represent a range of VS speakers from just a decade ago. Our personal preference over Wilsons, Magico and B&W which we have heard extensively is to be considered but those are not inexpensive speakers either and also require high quality and power amps. I suggest that the new Tekton $30K speaker is designed for large rooms, not 15X10X8 rooms, very typical of smaller listening rooms. If the Tekton speaker owner can enjoy music properly reproduced using this "patented" technology, wonderful. My friends and I (several are world renown remastering engineers) would not be owning Tekton speakers. My Signature IIIs are in a living room 20X20X10 open to 1,600' of living space and permeate the entire area with gorgeous sound on my little amps. My quite massive VR9s are in my dedicated listening room of 20X15X10 but excellently scale within a smaller space. |
rsf507, Thanks for sharing! I'm currently reading and enjoying the book 'So good they can't ignore you' by Cal Newport. |
@tektondesign this thread likely isnt helping productivity or sanity. Build some speakers, sell them, the first owners will sing their praises (or not) and the secondary market will determine value. |
Just reread Rogier Van Bakel’s Stereophile Moab Be review. He likes how the speaker sounds and performs. His opinion [Rogier] should be believed and trusted over anyone jumping on here for two minutes to blurt out an ill informed opinion of what this speaker sounds like. For those that will never own a $30K pair of loudspeakers here’s what $2500 Tekton dollars will get you...
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Not to mention that I was among a of group people here who he accused of contacting the Washington State board that oversees x-ray techs and complained that he was providing substandard service and either had him barred or almost barred from his occupation.
I don’t think you really mean this, as I remember MCs political opinion was that the democrats invented covid.
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Touched a nerve, did I. I can certainly say what's sad to me, and that behavior you described is very much so. Ok, so you disliked millercarbon. Even though my political opinions aligned with his, I didn't care for him much as a person either. But his owning a certain brand of product (him or anyone else for that matter) wouldn't keep me from considering it if it was on my radar. Just seems awfully childish (to ME that is)... |