Solid State Low powered Amplifiers

Schiit GJALLARHORN

https://www.schiit.com/products/gjallarhorn

10 watts Solid State.

Post 1683 will introduce to an Amp that may just be ideal ?

What’s On the Bench Tonight (OBT) | Page 85 | diyAudio

@dougsat "Schiit GJALLARHORN".

Hard to believe they can afford to build and sell that thing for $299. Never heard it before. Definitely starting to put Aliexpress and other overseas mail order amps on their heels.  

How does it sound compared to regular Class AB amps?  Specs show this. No caps. Could be a fun little test amp, more more if it can hold ones attention. 

"Topology: Continuity S output stage; fully discrete, fully complementary current feedback, no capacitors in the signal path"

+2 Schiit GJALLARHORN amp!

Mike

I bought a Gjallarhorn about eight months ago to replace the LSA VT-70 tube amp (EL34 tubes) that I was using to drive a pair of small Spendor 4/5 speakers in a sunroom.  The Spendors (their current incarnation of the classic LS 3/5a speakers) are not terribly sensitive (84 dB) but the Gjallorhorn is great with them.  The loudest I listen is around 80 dB to maybe 85dB average and the Gjallarhorn coasts along with zero problems -- there is no sonic hint of running out of power. The Gjallarhorn is easily the equal of the VT-70 in the mids and highs, and I like the bass better (though obviously one is not going very deep with these speakers.)

Note the amp is AB, not class D, but uses Schiit's "continuity" design to improve linearity. Whatever it is, it works, and works well. I've also never found the case to get anything more than pleasantly warm while playing.

So, another vote for the Schiit Gjallarhorn. At $300 it seems like a slam dunk for an audition.

Here’s a wonderful amp — it’s Class A but as it’s on the smaller side and only puts out 12Wpc it won’t act like a space heater and deliver the sonic goods…

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650057786-valvet-e3-stereo-single-ended-amplifier/
 

This AVA amp would also be worth a look…

https://avahifi.com/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier

Hope this helps, and best of luck.

Get either a Harman Kardon 300b or 300c receiver and have it recapped.  20 wpc of really exceptional sound quality. Great vintage looks, to boot!

If your preamp has a low gain setting, it may broaden the amplifier options greatly. 

What is the concern of running a class A Amp in summer? I fail to understand. I've had mine for 5 years, I have central air, I do not see or feel a difference. See meaning significant added cost to cool. It is a miniscule amount of heat when compared to the overall volume of an average room. Unless your sitting on the thing I don't see why the worry.

amp camp amp.  class a but small enough in output should not be a big heat generator.

[[It is a miniscule amount of heat when compared to the overall volume of an average room. ]]

nonsense...

Vista Spark.  An A/B integrated amp putting out about 20wpc.  Sounds great at low to moderate spl’s, and less than $500.

Rega has several that would likely work well

also the  Musical Fidelity A1

Another vote for the amp camp amp. It's amazing sounding.

I have the VMV A1 on the way but it’ll be too hot for my fully dry walled converted one car garage Mancave, which has limited venting at the end of the AC flow. Perfect room acoustics with floating wood floor, plenty of acoustic panels and bass trap reduction. 7’ listening triangle, close listening, Schitt idea may be better than my NAD C136BEE at 40 WPC. Thank you. Great discussion.

+1 on AVA

ok I will put it out there. many of the FirstWatt amps could work, they come up used.

FIRST WATT

I very much liked the sound of First Watt amps if one must run solid state.  However, both of the amps I heard-J2 and SIT 2–ran a bit warm.  I would think you would be more in the market for a Class D amp.

So many great amps listed here, makes me want to get a set of super efficient speakers just to try one. But what about the offerings from Fleawatt? Many threads out there about how great they work with Klipsch speakers.  Well designed and affordable chip based amps with a very special output stage:

One listed in usaudiomart:

I have the same issue with heat in my office/listening room in the summer.
HVAC person said I need to get a duct fan installed.
I have:
Schiit Gjallarhorn; use when I'm working, desktop setup. Very little heat.
AVA SET120; summer amp in main system. Very little heat
First Watt M2; hot, almost can't touch heat sinks
Home built tube amps; hot, can't touch

Refurbed Sansui AU-505 would be very nice.

The Sugden A21 would work well. It's solid state Class A but being low powered, it's not dissipating a massive amount of heat.

While it may appear logical to pair a speaker of high sensitivity like the Cornwall IV with lower-power amplifiers, experience suggests that more power can result in better performance. See the following review (but not limited to).

With technological advancements, a well-designed and constructed Class A amplifier does not generate as much heat as it used to. The Accuphase A75, if you can afford it (or are willing to), is a good example. I spent a good hour auditioning it in a store, and to my surprise, it does not feel hot. Feedback from its users echoes the same sentiment.

While rated 150 wpc (8 ohms; 225 wpc 4/2 ohms), 35 amp high current pc, my class A/B Parasound NC 2125 v2 generates much less heat when switching to 2-4 ohm stable operation load tap, as compared to another class A/B A23 and it sounds better to my ears. Specs like SNR is better than some aforementioned gears.

Heat is less of an issue and concern nowadays if you delve into the subject further. Don’t settle for the fantasy of using a low-powered amp for less performance with a $6-7k speaker.

https://twitteringmachines.com/review-klipsch-cornwall-iv/

One benefit bestowed on the systems’ sound with the ModWright’s 225 Watts was, you guessed it, more control throughout the frequency range. With the ModWright driving the Klipsch, the overall presentation was more balanced, more put together compared to either of the tube amp partners while tone and texture felt very nearly as full as it did with the Feliks 300B. What’s more, the system’s ability to reproduce subtlety also improved along with greater dynamic slam. A win, win, win in my book.

@moose89 from your OP it’s unclear if you want a SS integrated, or just a power stage.

I used KT 66- and 88-based integrated’s for some years until I fatigued of the amount of waste heat and tube lifespan (+ listening windows) lost to warmup time.

I am still using the older SS integrated I picked up due to its similarity (to me) in sound to the tube amps, and with pretty high efficiency speakers (~99 dB if not calculated slightly lower for a minor discrepancy in frequencies > 6 kHz).

So, integrated, or power amp being what you prefer here?

The Schiit Aegir 2 should be released before the end of the month. It sounds like they are playing with very low feedback. The Output Impedance is .8ohm… Damping Factor of 10. It’s 25w/ channel into 8 ohms.

With that low Output Impedance, I expect it to be very musical and plan to buy one.  Price with tax & shipping probably puts it right at $1000… maybe a few bucks less. I have a hunch it’s going to be a special unit for not a lot of money. 

I am in exact same situation.  Class D is now competitive in many areas with Class A/B AND Class A.

Listen to the low end FOSI V3 and a high end purifi amp.  I think you will be stunned how good they sound.

You want the Class D amps with the new feedback topology that eliminates the rise in distortion at higher frequencies.  

that schitt unit has the advantage of allowing bridged mono use, thus in the future, there, or somewhere else, you can get another unit to drive ____ speakers

@jim2 An output imp. of 0.8 ohm is not low for a PA. Even the original Aegir is 10 times lower and, as such, a damping factor of 100.  Why would Schiit lower DF? 

The Schiit Aegir 2 should be released before the end of the month. It sounds like they are playing with very low feedback. The Output Impedance is .8ohm… Damping Factor of 10.

Atma-sphere Class D and be done with it. Zero heat. Solved my upstairs summertime heat issue. I'll never sell them and they surpassed my BKK250 sonically. 

 

lanx0003

598 posts

02-19-2024 at 09:09am 

 Why would Schiit lower DF? 

Because it sounds better.

Lower DF implies higher output imp.  Does lowering output imp. make it sound better as you said earlier or the other way around?  Did you notice you are conflicting with yourself? 

BTW, lower output impedance does not make the power amp sound more musical.  Where did you get the idea from?

With that low Output Impedance, I expect it to be very musical

Magnus Audio MA-340

 

lanx0003

599 posts

02-19-2024 at 10:38am

Lower DF implies higher output imp. Does lowering output imp. make it sound better as you said earlier or the other way around? Did you notice you are conflicting with yourself?

BTW, lower output impedance does not make the power amp sound more musical. Where did you get the idea from?

If I misspoke and said "low" vs "high" output impedance... whatever the case. I have experienced lower damping factor / lower overall negative feedback correlating to more musicality. Where did I get the idea from? I own all Ayre Acoustics equipment... "Zero Feedback".

If you want to be argumentative / pick of fight... have fun. I’m sharing what I live with everyday. Schiit is doing what they are doing for a reason. It would be much easier to just use a ton of feedback and brag about high damping factor being "good" and "what you need". It would also placate "The Measurement Crowd".

So... you asked... why would Schiit do this? Well, it’s because it sounds better. Don’t believe me... go read what Jason Stoddard at Schiit has to say about it. He says the Aegir 2 is clearly superior sounding compared to the first gen. If you read what’s different between the 2 of them, you’ll have your answer.  People can listen to it / examples like what I'm talking about and make up their own mind.  

@moose89 There are now class D amps that don’t take a back seat to tube amps for smoothness and detail in any way. If you get the right one you may find that not only have you solved the heat issue but you may find you don’t want to go back to the tube amplifier. Its very probable that the class D amp will be lower noise too.

@jim2 If the feedback is deleterious to the sound, its only because the feedback has been poorly applied. This problem has been known for a long time (Norman Crowhurst was writing about this issue in the late 1950s along with the why of it) but oddly, few have come up with solutions. However the solution is pretty simple; I think tradition has been more of the problem than the feedback.

For example in a tube amp feedback is usually fed into the cathode of the input tube. That doesn't work (as Crowhurst explained) because the tube isn't linear. So the cathode of the tube causes the feedback signal itself to distort, thus causing it to not do its job properly. The solution is to mix the feedback with the input signal with a resistive divider network before the input signal reaches the input of the amp. Resistors are far more linear than active devices; in this way the feedback signal doesn't get distorted and so can do its job properly.

That's not the only problem, but its a good place to start if you want feedback to work.

@Riccitone I have the FleaWatt Coltrane on the way from HI…thank you for that suggestion . It sounds really great and low power is what Klipsch enthusiasts all recommend in the reduced field listening that I do….and for the remaining Winter, the SMSL VMV A1, for experience reasons,I will welcome on Saturday. The Cornwall iv for me is just so airy that I hate jumping up too far up in WPC. Like most audioholics, I’m stockpiling and will make decisions on which to send to market, rather than sit on a bunch of amps. I cannot imagine I’d sell my Dennis Had Inspire SET 300B… and it’s just as good without WE300B, with Full Music solid not mesh, and Genelex Gold Lion…to my ears. And after waiting on Hegel 120 to appeal to me, it’s just made for a larger scaled listening area, as I cannot supply the increased volume to predicate enough gain to appreciate the beautiful bass and power it wants to unleash on the efficiency Klipsch Cornwall IV’s possess.

To @moose89 Thanks for sharing your experience about the type and amounts of power you enjoy and recommend using with the Cornwall IV speakers. 👍

This topic and how you explain the differences between your DH 300B amp,-vs- the Hegel 120, relative to the type of scale and listening area space is very interesting me. It’s becoming even more clear how finding the right amplifier(s) for Cornwall IVs (and other efficient horns) can make a real difference in the outcome and listening enjoyment. Or, this one study path I’m keen to learn more about, after helping a local tech friend do the early design on three pairs of Altec Onkens. He now uses heavily customized 8-watt Audio Note monos with original WE300B tubes with them. I heard that setup twice, and it was quite different from anything else I’ve listened to, to date, since. It also showed me what big horns can do.  

I’ve followed along (and owned a few amps, listened to) from Dennis Had-Inspire and Nelson Pass/Firstwatt over the past few decades, and the more recent paths both have followed into "lower powered amplifiers" for tube and solid state amplification.

I hope folks here can share more about the NEW Cornwall IV scope of discussion for recommendations on what amps work best with them. This would be super helpful. While I cannot own them, I have a few buddies who consider them and back off. One friend is adamant, now has me convinced the II, IIIs, are notably different in design than the new IVs, and the correct amp paring truly matters. I have yet to hear or enjoy Cornwall IVs with proper amplification, and hope to.

@decooney

Geez. Like holographic soundstage demential sound? I just found my answer to balanced sound, thanks to @riccitone. I went right to it and purchased this amp that he suggested that I have never heard of and I’m sitting here in amazement.I know we keep searching and I don’t think I have to anymore because this sounds too good to be true even better than the Cary KT 88 sound and the 300 B sound from Dennis Had. PERFECT marriage to reduced field and Klipsch, with enough head room to the friends that come over and you really want them to enjoy the listening experience, but they have to say “turn it up””…. Scary loud and with my Bluesound node X as my preamp and volume control. It is in need of nothing else because I am not a phono LP guy anymore. FLEA AUDIO Coltrane!

I’ve also used First Watt J2, Nakamichi PA7, Marantz 2226B, and this is my new best friend. The others were big bullies. 

I have a Valvet E3, a First-Watt F8 and SIT-2 and all of them are class-A and are terrific sounding.  The F8 has the most power over the other two however for fairly efficient speakers, all do very well.  Each have their own sonic signature and I have had the pleasure of listening to all of them taking turns with them each 1 week at a time.  My favorite of the three is the SIT-2 although between the three, it's a matter of splitting hairs on which sounds the absolute best.  I believe for the Cornwall speakers at 98db, any of the 3 would be great.  They are all reliable especially the First-Watt ones.  I've used these on my Living-Voice 93db efficient speakers and any will drive those speakers to uncomfortable listening levels with no sign of compression.  You can find the Valvet E3, and occasionally an F8 on AudioMart, however I haven't seen a SIT-2 for sale yet.  Highly recommended !  

I use a Keces E40. $750 with a preout, two RCA inputs, a mm phono stage and a usb input with internal dac. I think its suitable as a main driver, desktop, or spare in case one is in-between or having their amp repaired/serviced.

I think its a better option than most of the others near its price point as well as those higher priced. That includes the small Regas, Spark and Emotiva if not for outright power output but for SQ and versatility. Small form factor and 10 lbs. Comes with a remote.

I have two and they drive my smaller speakers well ranging from 4 ohms to 6 ohms, but those that dip well below 4 ohms over a larger frequency range will heat it up (Dali Menuet SE), otherwise heat is not an issue.

Distortion on a Klipsch speaker rated at 102 dB at 1 watt may or may not be low enough for you but it won’t sound sterile, IMO. At 8 ohms, 0.2 watts was measured having 0.3%THD+N, decreasing as you increase power but can be modulated by using a pre or dac with a decent pre. At higher output, say 2 watts, distortion falls below 0.08%.

Its pre section was stated to have a class A sound and its smooth and very close to my Hegel on my speakers at the SPLs I listen at. If you listen primarily to the Hegel, you may notice a very slight difference between the two but not for long as you adjust. Bass is better on my smaller speakers for two reasons, one the high damping on the Hegel can be too much and the Keces adds from 1 to 2 dB from around 50hz to 30hz, which adds a bit more of support but still sounds relatively fast, tight and layered.

Can’t say how it will sound on the big woofers but I like it. I think it outperforms alot of the above mentioned budget options due to its superior SNR, dynamics and damping in comparison.

Per one review, here are how it spec’ed out:

I'll add a less known contender. I've recently heard and was extremely impressed (for the money) by a Lavardin integrated amplifier. It is incredibly liquid sounding with very detailed mids and, iirc, very good highs. Bass is not the star of the show, but it's really OK. It drove a pair of Spendor Classic 100 speakers (with 12 inch bass drivers) without a problem, but I haven't heard the system playing really loud, only at "normal" levels and slightly above. However, with the high efficiency Klipsch's the headroom shouldn't be a problem. Caveat: it did exhibit a bit of hiss which could be objectionable with high sensitivity speakers or not. For the used price of 1000-1300 Euros, the IS model I've tried is a steal. I haven't heard the more recent (and more expensive) ISX model.

I agree that Lavardin makes terrific sounding modestly powered amps.  They sound lively at lower volumes, unlike most solid state amps.  I generally prefer low-powerd tube amps with higher efficiency speakers, but, if someone wants to stay away from tubes, Lavardin is a good choice.

@moose89 Awesome!!

I am so glad the fleawatt amp worked out for you! Makes me happy that synergy wins again. Chip bases amps seem to be really amazing when the right stuff is built around them. I’ve been checking these little amps out online in forums for some time, along with some other diy projects. But have never pulled the plug on one. I’ve already got a decent setup with my Spendor Classic 4/5’s, but was at one point considering a pair of OGY’s from closer audio - hence looking at the fleawatts as a possible pairing, then adding some nice tube amps down the road. If space somehow and someday accommodates, I might be lucky enough for some Klipsch Cornwalls 🙏🏼

But for now, vicariously very happy on your behalf 😎

The Schiit Aegir 2 should be released before the end of the month. It sounds like they are playing with very low feedback. The Output Impedance is .8ohm… Damping Factor of 10. It’s 25w/ channel into 8 ohms.

Sounds like Jason at Schiit has created a budget First Watt. With the low damping factor it will behave like a tube amp...so higher impedance speakers will likely work better...or at least be more linear. 

Yesterday I received a cool response from Derek, maker of Flea Audio, when I asked him WHY his amplifier sounds better than a tube amp: 

Years of experimentation with the parts “recipe” for my amps is a large part of why they sound good.  All of the parts matter.   

Thousands of dollars have been spent over many years trying different parts to get the best sound.   Different transformers, power supply boards, capacitors, rectifiers, wire, connectors, etc.  All have been extensively experimented with.  Through years of listening tests and refinements, the recipe you have is the result.   

None were ever built to just make money, as building them for others has been a hobby for me.  The constant refinements were an attempt to take my own system to the next level and achieve sound superior to the tube amps I owned.  

Glad you’re enjoying the sound!

Derek

Furthermore, just yesterday I was able to receive a purchase of my new used SMSL CLASS A VMV A1…tremendous midrange vocals, resounding bass, impressive (10) WPC, and not much temperature surprisingly, as YouTube reviews say, my first listening to Class A… I think this should close the book on my search. Thanks to all. I’m happy in a way that my studio has been influenced by seasonal temperatures! (Not that us audiophile-aholics need MORE rationalizing to make further purchases). I have actually stacked the tiny A1 on top of the Flea Audio, and the small amp’s  footprinst on the top of my cabinet lends compatibility to the experience, just swapping power, RCA’s, and speaker plugs, according to temps outside and maybe genre of music. I may be tempted to sell my Dennis Had Inspire 300B, if any of you are interested please inquire. Once again, a great thread, and you guys deserve all the credit!

I’ve owned several Fleawatts over the years and have loved them all.  I was surprised several years ago to hear Derek say that several of his friends traded in their 300B & 2a3 amps for Fleawatts and never looked back.  
 

A few months later I was listening to a 6B4G SE amp and had a hard time distinguishing it from a Fleawatt. After that, I simply could not justify running the tube SE amp.

This SMSL VMV A1 is interesting. It was compared favorably to the Pass Class A amps, at 1/4 the price.
As my listening remained easy, and never fatigued… I thought it was making whatever Klipsch upper range sound notables sound more like a JBL Monitor sound. However, as time passed a couple hours, I needed to turn volume DOWN from a front panel reading of a firm “20”, to “8-10”! Openness to the soundstage had become apparent but more-so a tubey transition and transference to the midrange… with impeccable smooth vocals with a very satisfying bass, like none other. Very interesting. The amp temp remained only as warm as an LED 60W replacement bulb!