Small footprint subwoofer

RELs are nice but let me add the RSL Speedwoofer 10s Mkii into the mix. I have one in my home theater set up and it is a smaller 10" woofer but it sounds great.  

SVS 3000 Micro 

REL Serie T/x

JL Audio Dominion Series

Good choice.   Enjoy

High level REL connection is a great way to go, because every amp’s final output stage has a sonic “color” that will help your sub disappear as an extension of your main speakers’ bottom end. In my situation, the fast down-firing 8” In the REL T5 melts into the 8” Kevlar woofer of Wharfedale Heritage Lintons. Adds only richness and teeny bit of attack as I’ve got it adjusted.

Thanks for the responses. I have purchase the REL R218 and I am currently auditioning it. It might be too early to comment on its performance but so far I am really enjoying how it is sounding. The bass is extremely clean and articulate for it size. I was very easy to seamlessly integrate with my speakers. However, with the sub I notice a few flaws I am somewhat disappointed. First, the R218 has a class D amp rated or 250 watts where as the STF-2 is rated at 200 watts. As far as gain level, I had to max out the gain on the REL to get at least acceptable level and this was used for both low and high level(speakon high level cable). With the STF-2, all I have need to set just less then half ways. This might not be a fair comparison since one is a sealed and the other ported. Second issue is that the REL for me does not go as deep and as the Hsu does. Both subs integrate well in my system and perform well but I felt the REL lacking impact with certain music. It does however sound tight, natural and articulate and this is great but the Hsu does have better impact.

@m-db To answer your question, mostly yes. It was measured at the listening position mostly and other parts of the room. All measurements are done in real time and delayed to compensate latency.

The KC62, SVS 3000 Micro, and REL T5x are all excellent mini-subs. I would add the Sunfire - which I have - but they're gone. In your small room I expect the KEF would work best, but if budget is a determining factor, then the T5/X. The SVS offers better control via their app, and while not as sophisticated as the KEF, certainly offers incremental value over the REL.

highend64    'As far as the position of the Hsu sub, yes it is in a near null position by not quite. That is why it is off centered to compensate the difference. I have the tools to do measurements so finding the best place for the sub is not a problem.'

Just curious. Is this the room location the Rational software calculated or just an interim compensation?

All the best with your situation. Take care.

I would heartily recommend the Martin-Logan Dynamo 800X subwoofer. $900 retail currently.  Sub is 13.7”x12.4”x13.1”. Full app control plus a useful ARC DSP app that can use your phone as a microphone. I use a pair of these to extend the response of my Bowers and Wilkins 805D4. The ML app makes it easy to tweak the settings from your listening seat. Both speaker and line level inputs.  Don’t believe me however, read Larry Greenhill’s review in Stereophile on his successful experience integrating these with a pair of Quad electrostats. 

highend64

A small REL or Sunfire subwoofer will be enough. Keep me posted on your purchase decision.

Happy Listening!

A small REL, and not a pair, will be enough. If you need to locate it away from your other components, get the Arrow wireless connection. T5x or Tzero Mk III should be enough. Alterntively, the KEF Kube 8 MIE or KC62 might work. The KC62 would be the most expensive of the lot.

Since the SVS 3,000 Micro was the only sub I could find that would fit under my modified, antique buffet stereo cabinet I got one (to go with my corner horns).

It improved the sound so much I added another across the room, hard-wired.

My room is not that large and they’ve really boosted the SQ.

m-db  If you are referring the subwoofer crawl, I could have done that which can be a way to find the node but I found a much easier time saving way to find room problem. I personally use Rational Acoustics DIv2 software for this. Is pretty much a complex measurement software I use for other purpose which I happen to have available. It is pricey but very valuable tool. Of course your ears is the main tool. 

A couple of thoughts on this since small rooms are tough with subs.

Most importantly, sub placement in a small room is critical.  Be careful about putting a sub(s) too close to a corner.  Two subs will be better to cancel out the nodes.

The JL audio Fathom subs have a very small footprint and have an excellent built in DSP that will help with nodes/modes

An external DSP to eq the subs may be very handy in the small room since there is so little room and you may have to sit in a null or mode.

Good luck!

highend64  I apologize for not being more helpful. While you moved the HSU slightly and it measured differently is not how to position a subwoofer.

The most effortless, quickest and practical way to find your rooms standing wave bass modes must be done with the -2dB HSU placed at your listening position because its the location you're actually trying to improve the subwoofers performance within the room. Think of it as a sort of reverse engineering. 

Connect one or two long inexpensive RCA interconnect cables (from Blue Jeans  or Monoprice cables) to the subwoofer.

Purchase or download a low frequency cadence tones that can be constantly repeated.

As the tones are being played slowly walk or crawl around your rooms boundaries listening for the strongest best sounding bass. Make a map of these locations within the room as you'll only have to do this once. 

With the HSU positioned now in the most convenient mode location readjust the subs parameters while listening from the listening position first with the bass tones then with music, by ear. There is no right or wrong as to what you feel sounds best. 

This method does not work with -6dB rated speakers since they simply do not play play low or loud enough to excite the rooms modes so there's nothing to integrate.

Room size has nothing to do with the delicate extra low bass. You can hear it in many headphones. So why give up on it with a -6dB sub bass speaker?

I respectfully disagree you don’t need a sub that goes below 30Hz for music even in a smaller room. There’s actually a lot of info down there

Agree! Even with speakers with a stated low end of 35 Hz, I found the addition of two Rythmik FG12’s made a huge difference in sonic range as well as soundstage and overall presence of music...

I respectfully disagree you don’t need a sub that goes below 30Hz for music even in a smaller room. There’s actually a lot of

+100

I like using the REL cable.   They recommend it and it works with most amps. If your Amp is fully balanced at the output , which i think it is , then I believe you do not want to connect the Black ground wire.  Only the Red and Yellow.  Float the ground Check with REL before going speaker level. 

I decided to go with the REL R218. This came with the high level cable. I have the option to high level or line level signal. What would be better to use on? For the high level, I am using an Adcom GFA-5500.

Thanks for the response. The room null I am have right now is above the xo point anywhere around 90 to 120hz. Most likely is due the position of the speakers and the in room response. The node is at around 60hz so I have corrected most of the issue with a inline 12db/slope 70hz crossover for the speakers and the sub setting at around 50hz. Theoretically this would be a 6 db less at the xo point. On the contrary, the null that I have is probably more complex to fix. Honestly, this is a bad room dimension but it is the only room in the house I can relax.

As far as the position of the Hsu sub, yes it is in a near null position by not quite. That is why it is off centered to compensate the difference. I have the tools to do measurements so finding the best place for the sub is not a problem.

I have a REL S/510 which I like a lot. I don’t like looking at subs so I wanted the small form factor 

I like REL also.   T series are really good subs for the money.  I have a 15 plus year old r305 that has been thumping along every day....   

Love the REL T5x, perfect invisible extension for Wharfedale 85th Anniversary Lintons.

highend64  The two Double Basses I own the open E string tunes to just over 41Hz. Regardless, its how the environment they're played in or how the producer wants it to sound that a -3dB subwoofer is able to convey the delicate sub sonics. Unlike the empty 31Hz buzz of an unamplified open B string from a solid body electric Bass.

Looking at your setup photo it's quite possible your HSU is located in a middle of the room null which requires a subwoofer to be annoyingly overdriven. It can also greatly restrict its potential for exactly the reasons your seeking, while exacerbating the room mode that may possibly diminish by the HSU's being positioned in.

Its true, replacing your -2dB@ 25Hz subwoofer with the dramatic roll off of a -6dB@ 25Hz sub-bass speaker will not excite your rooms mode and allow it to be placed in the HSU's current null location. All at the expense of the HSU's currently maligned potential sub sonic presentation. 

Find your rooms mode first before you spend a dime. 

@ soix  I am not saying there is no instruments lower then 30z. There is but very limited and the experience is more of a feel then hearing it. 88 keys piano range can go 27.5hz and pipe organ can go as low as 16hz. A bass guitar has or a double bass has the lowest range at 35hz. For the kind of music I listen to my not required to go that low.

If you’re concerned about overwhelming bass I would unreservedly recommend the dual T5/xs then.  I have a very small listening space, maybe 10x12 and these subs do not overwhelm.   They have wonderfully tight articulate bass that is full but not bloated.  They have good speed as well. I have a node at 50Hz which I have sorted out for the most part with bass traps but was thinking about building a Helmholtz resonator to see what that might do.

Two final thoughts re: the SB1000 Pro…

• I respectfully disagree you don’t need a sub that goes below 30Hz for music even in a smaller room. There’s actually a lot of info down there that unintuitively contributes greatly to significantly better imaging and a more expansive and ambient 3D soundstage among other things. There’s a reason the best/most expensive subwoofers (and speakers for that matter) for music go down to 20Hz and lower — if there was nothing meaningful down there they wouldn’t bother.
• You can try one completely risk free for 45 days and see/hear for yourself, so again I ask why not?

Thats all I got, and again best of luck in whatever direction you go.

@jastralfu  True but my situation and room size, I dont need overwhelming bass. I do however have a room node at around 60hz but that can be fix with by integrating the sub with the proper settings on the sub and placement.  Even at that, the xo point would be lower then the node.

@big_greg I have the STF-2 currently and their about the internal volume as the SB-1000pro with the exception that the STF-2 is rectangle and a little taller. The SVS might be an option but it is a 12" but that is ok...I guess.

The SVS SB-1000pro was a consideration a while back but still think would be too big for my room especially going two subs. I get the performance aspect of it but I really don't need anything lower 30hz since this is just a 2 ch music only system.

There's no such thing as "too big" unless you don't have the physical space.  Those are small subs, smaller than the one you have.  They don't have very much power.  They have level controls.  You can reduce the output to integrate them with your speakers.  They're only going to be "too big" if you don't adjust them correctly.

If you can let the subs coast and aren't pushing them hard, then they are less likely to distort.  If you're going to use a sub, why not get one that is capable of producing all the bass that's in some recordings?

I installed a Kef Reference 8B for a client recently... I was worried it wasn't going to hit low or have enough power for a large room... I was wrong, not sure how they make two 8 inch woofers move that kind of air but holy smokes that thing is legit, it can go very low and very loud if you want with authority.. It is $8k retail but wow, its awesome and looks beautiful and compact, its magic how much sound that little sub can put out

In the more affordable category the old Sunfire HRS 10 or HRS 12 is another great compact sub that I have installed dozens of and they hit hard, deep, tight, and clean... 10" is 11.5" cube, the 12" is 13.5" cube, now that Sunfire is gone, they are still making them but under the Speakercraft brand, one of the best subs for the money and the very compact size

I have two SVS 3000 Micros and like them, and enjoy the control app on my phone. I have not compared them to the competition, fwiw. 
 

Best!
 

If the Kef is more than you want to spend two REL T5/x are about the cost of one Kef. Two SVS 3000 micros are slightly more than the two RELs. The SVS at 23Hz goes deeper than the REL at 32Hz but my in room response is a good bit lower than the 32Hz spec.

B&W ASW608, fantastic sub. I’m using two and completely satisfied. The subs include some basic DSP options to help with integration.

Cheers,

Scott

https://www.bowerswilkins.com/en-us/product/subwoofers/asw-series/asw608/150058.html

Thanks for the recommendations. The KEF is nice but it is out of my range. 

@soix The SVS SB-1000pro was a consideration a while back but still think would be too big for my room especially going two subs. I get the performance aspect of it but I really don't need anything lower 30hz since this is just a 2 ch music only system.

I have dual REL T5/x subs that I really like but, on paper at least, they likely don’t compare to the Kef.  I went with the RELs due to cost as I wanted dual subs and the Kef is about twice the cost of the REL.

I’d add the SVS SB1000 Pro to your list as it’s small but still has a 12” driver and goes down to an honest 20Hz (-3dB), and you can get two for less than the price of one of the REL or KEF subs mentioned — I’d definitely get two as it’s always significantly better than one, and you get a $50 discount for buying two. In addition it comes with a helpful app that makes integration much easier, and they offer a risk free, 45 day in-home trial including shipping both ways, so why not??? Read the reviews that are consistently very positive. And BTW, the only way these would overwhelm your room would be if they’re not properly set up (i.e. volume/crossover set too high), which again is made much easier with their excellent app. Just another option to consider, and best of luck.

KEF KC92

The REL R218 is for home theater. For your stated needs, you need 2 x REL T5x subs. Stereo pair is so much better.

+1 on the Kef.  A friend has one and I was quite surprised by how capable it is for its size.

Kef KC62

(Tiny advanced tech sub.... that's a lot more more capable than the Rel under consideration).