Roon Nucleus as a Streamer

Don’t waste your money on Nucleus or Nucleus plus. Instead, use your existing laptop to run Roon Core and buy a decent dedicated streamer with Roon ready (endpoint). For Roon server duties, there are so many inexpensive options that are better than Nucleus.

It all depends on your needs. For me, getting a Nucleus was an "easy" button that fit my system needs.

I bought a nice DAC and wanted to use it in my main system. I had also been considering moving to Roon. I found a used Nucleus at a very good price. It allowed me to use the DAC in my main system without adding another streaming device, and allowed me to use that DAC with Roon. The DAC isn’t "Roon Ready", but connecting it directly to the Nucleus made that a non-issue.

Using the Nucleus allowed me to copy my digitial files over to its hard drive and send them directly to the DAC instead of over my network and kept the Roon Core off my already somewhat bogged down computer.

It was the perfect solution for my needs. It might not be for yours.

I found the Nucleus+ to be a step up from the dedicated tower I had running Roon sending a signal via USB.  That said, I found the Nucleus got better when it ran as a server only.  

I think that is the important point here.  It is not bad as a server and player, it is better as a server alone.  This is the case even with much more expensive devices. 

The reason is that roon servers work best when very high powered as they are dealing with Roon DSPs and a very volatile internet along with other accessing flies etc....  Players, are best when mid-powered.  Excess processing power tends to introduce noise in this stage.  

I decided against the Nucleus, because it’s not easy getting human support. I got a Small Green Computer Sonictransporter Roon server instead, and it’s been excellent (and Andrew has offered excellent tech support when needed). I paired mine with a MicroRendu streamer into my DAC. Not sure they sell the Micro, and maybe only the UltraRendu now.

SGC Roon server

SGC Sonictransporter Server + Rendu and power supply

Looks like the MicroRendu is discontinued
Sonore

 I have a Roon Nucleus and have utilized it as a server/streamer. In my opinion, it was decent, very enjoyable, but not great.  Together with an Sbooster LPS in place of the stock power supply and a decent USB cable (in my case Curious), I thought it was somewhat better (say a smidge better) than a Node 2i hooked up via coax to the same Chord Qutest DAC.  Then in March of this year put a Bricasti M5 in play as my network player and Roon enpoint via Coax to the Qutest, and this took things to a whole other level. 

I agree with lalitk. There is no need to purchase a separate server if you already own a Windows or Apple computer. I used a ten year old MacAir, on which I installed Roon Core. The resulting digital signal can be conveyed to a Roon-ready DAC (in this case PS Audio) via WIFI or USB. The sound is great, and is indistinguishable from that produced by a Roon nucleus, or any other server that has a CPU powerful enough to run Roon software.

Roon themselves recommend keeping the Roon core away from the Hi-Fi and not connecting it directly to the DAC. I am not sure why they would recommend this unless they had done trials to determine it as the optimum method. I would therefore accept their recommendation as being correct.

Last month I bought an inexpensive Intel Nuc to use as a Roon core.

If house layout was different, I would have used my MacBook.

If you already own a general purpose computer that you could use for Roon, you might want to try that first before buying a dedicated server or streamer.  This will give you a change to familiarize yourself with Roon before making any upgrade decisions.

What is behind recommendations to use a Nucleus only as a server, not with a direct connection?  A couple of possibilities:

First, some users like to locate the music server separately from the endpoint(s).  This may be a bias held over from the days when computing devices tended to have noisy fans.  I have both a Mac Mini and a sonicTransporter music server in the same cabinet with my preamp and power amp.  I don't notice any fan noise.  Nor does electrical noise seem to be a problem, as far as I can tell. 

Second, some users don't like USB connections for music.  I've had problems with USB in the past, but this had to do with maintaining the handshake between certain devices, not with sound quality. 

The main reason I don't use a direct USB connection from the sonicTransporter is because I allocate the one USB-B port on my streamer/preamp/DAC to the Mac Mini, which hosts digital signal processing applications (BACCH4Mac and HQPlayer) as well as music-management applications.  So I only use ethernet to connect the music server to the streamer/preamp/DAC.  

Personally, I think the Nucleus is a little overpriced and under-powered. For some people it's a good choice, but I decided the sonicTransporter was just about as simple, a bit cheaper, more powerful, and well supported.  Many people consider an inexpensive NUC even more cost-effective.  But it can depend on what you want to run and what configurations you prefer, which you may not know yet.

One set up I sometimes use, which works well, is to  run HQ Player on the sonicTransporter and feed that directly to the streamer/preamp/DAC via a direct USB connection. I go back and forth between preferring that vs. running BAACH4Mac on the Mac Mini.

Excellent feedback & advice, thanks very much to all of you!

I wish only to be digital but I think I have to try and figure out if I even need Roon. Yes, I have used it in the past, and yes, it's a nice feature, but it adds lots of additional costs just to listen to a few songs on Tidal or Qobuz. 

Maybe just a good DAC, a decent server that is Roon Ready, the I could always sign up for Roon down the road.

+1 @big_greg

I have a Roon Nucleus+ with 2TB internal drive and 3TB ext drive connected directly to it.

The Nucleus+ is connected directly via USB to a Bryston BDA-3 DAC. Simple and clean and to my ears sounds great. Have a few TB of DSD on the ext drive which is really exceptional.  OP,  As in all cases it may not fit your ideas or your system plans.

Regards,

barts

Roon is completely unnecessary if one just wants to listen to a few songs on Tidal or Qobuz. Roon has four main advantages. 1 it is a fabulous source of information on music and on the relationships between different musician and their recorded output. 2 - its user interface is superb. 3. Its capacity to integrate stored and streamed music. Lastly, it frees one from reliance on the streamer manufacturer's proprietary interface. Ok, so one is reliant on Roon being around long term (so there is a vulnerability there), but it means one is free to change dac/streamer while one's user interface remains constant.

As an observation on the Nucleus / +, it's way overpriced for what it offers. for the price of a Nucleus plus in particular, one can build a top notch ultra quiet Windows computer with more onboard SDD storage and a quality USB card like a JCAT that will deliver superb streaming quality and have the flexibility/upgradability that is missing from the Nucleus.

Fwiw…I did the Roon Trial, and I was using a 2009 MacAir, which had been replaced by a new model.  I had scrubbed the HD.  The Air started to overheat during the Roon download, something it had never done otherwise.  I aborted the trial.  Make sure that you have a lot of computer firepower for that program 

+1 A fanless laptop like MacAir is what you need.

It would be helpful if we understood what you're currently using for a DAC.  If your goal is to keep your DAC then you've received some helpful feedback.  It sounds like perhaps you don't have the DAC yet either. 

If that's the case, then the easy button may be to simply get a combined streamer and DAC.  Most will come with a free app that will allow you to stream music from Tidal and Qobuz and depending on what you get there are a number of aftermarket apps that are free or close to free that may provide a better user experience than the manufacturer's app.

I use the Nucleus plus with a ps audio directstream dac along with a 14rb external hard drive with 10tb of high res music. I also stream tidal and quboz

The roon acts as a wickapedia of music and is very informative.  Overall i am very happy with the sound and the convenience of it all. 

big_greg - I am planning on using an SPL pre-amplifier that has an on-board DAC, which I have not heard yet, but from my understanding most built-in DACs can be greatly improved upon. Once I give it a listen I will make that call, but most likely I will be upgrading the DAC. 

The question is then, how good are the DACs in the streamer combos? 

@lwong 

So you are using the USB out of the Nucleus Plus?

I use the Nucleus + and run it with my McIntosh integrated amp, with DAC, and a Tidal subscription as the source.  It sits on a shelf underneath my amp and makes absolutely zero noise (I mention that as I wasn’t clear on the comments upthread about placement and noise..?).  Yes, I could run Roon off a laptop, but I love the clean look and pairing it with my iPad using the Roon app.  Very simple setup - integrated amp, Nucleus +, and speakers.  My music never sounded better.  

@navyachts

As per your last post, you can start off with Node 2 and use existing DAC in SPL. Many online vendors offers Node 2 ($550) with 30 days return policy. The Node 2 also comes with an internal DAC so you will have an flexibility to compare the two DAC’s. You would need a SPDIF cable to use DAC inside SPL. DH Labs sells an inexpensive high quality SPDIF cable.

If you find sound quality of DAC’s on hand undesirable then you can look into adding a dedicated external DAC’s within your price range. Many folks here use an external DAC with Node 2. The Node 2 is a good entry level streamer with a very nice app. The app allows access to most streaming services than any other streamer I am aware of.

If you want DAC/Streamer in one box, look into offerings from Lumin and Aurender.

Good luck!

I run the usb from the roon to my external hard drive only. The directstream dac uses the ethernet to connect the roon

The directstream is then connected to my Trinnov via balanced cables

lwong - Thank you for sharing. To you all as well.

@navyachts Quality of streamer/DAC combos varies.  The Bluesound units are so-so, but a good value for the money.  I have a couple of TEAC NT-505 units that I really like.  The newest TEAC Streamer/DAC uses different chips, so I'm not sure it's as good as the one I have which uses AKM chips.  I've heard Lumin units that sound very nice.  Many options. 

I think you're better off buying a better unit than a Bluesound if your budget allows as opposed to adding another DAC to it.  Not quite the same as putting lipstick on a pig, but you'd be better off just getting something better to start with than putting a bunch of band-aids on a Bluesound.  My opinion only of course.  I have tried it and speak from experience.  Others may have different experiences.

@big_greg - Thank you, I will heed your advice and source out a better alternative to the Node 2 and most likely the Nucleus as well.

Small green computer very good idea use a goood hum for Ethernet like a Sonore,

coming from router the ether regen both sides you can buy good transceivers and run fiber optic ,dead quiet then Ethernet cable ,usb if need be from Sonore 

much blacker backgrounds ,I added to Thst spending over $4 k in digital cables 

each cable Ethernet x2 + usb all increased resolution , many ways to optimum 

sound for Your audio system.

audioman58 - It seem that Small Green Computer is a popular solution for streaming digital so I may very well give this a shot, but $4K in digital cables, WOW!

I went to your system page but couldn't seem to locate your digital components. Would you mind listing them for me here, including you cables? Thanks.

@navyachts, I use a ROON Nucleus Rev B with an Sbooster LPS in my system because it is totally plug and play, it works seamlessly with all of my Apple devices, and it gives me access to tens of millions of tracks of recorded music with the touch of my finger. I stream music using Tidal and Qobuz 100% of the time, so for me getting one was a no brainer.

But before you jump in too deep I think that you should look at where you’re wanting to end up with your listening chain. It’s important that you get the best DAC that you can afford first because it will dictate how you system is going to sound over time. The Nucleus is a really neat convenience if you know exactly why you would want one. Since I listen to music a couple hours most days, the cost of the Nucleus + Tidal and Qobuz works out to be less than $0.50 per day.

As a second hand testimonial, my audio gear dealer routinely puts together and sells systems costing upwards of $200,000 plus. And because he’s in the trade he can use any music streamer/server on the market today. When I asked him if he had an Antipodes K50 at home like he does on his showroom floor, he said absolutely not. He uses a Roon Nucleus at his home and at his store for demoing different equipment because it has the best user interface.

adasdad  Great post, thanks, but I'm I ready this correctly? You and your dealer are using the Nucleus only, as a music server, then I presume, USB to your DAC and that's it?

@navyachts I'm not the previous poster, but I use my Nucleus exactly as you described it.  Ethernet connection to the nucleus.  My DAC (which is NOT Roon Ready) connects to it via USB allowing me to stream to it using Roon.  I have two other systems connected to Roon with the Nucleus sitting on my network and handling Core duties.  This allows me to use Ethernet to connect my two other systems instead of a USB connection.

big_greg - Thanks Greg. I tried to pull up your system, but it wouldn't load for me? I just wanted to check it out.

Off the subject, when you reply on these thread how do you get the @ in front of the members handle when you reply, like this:

@big_greg

I do like the idea of SGC option as the Sonic Transporter is a Roon core, that allows you to connect optically to your DAC rather than USB, thus giving you complete galvanic isolating, in turn giving you the best black background, I would think.

This is a much more costly option than Nucleus direct to DAC. Without out hearing it first, I'm not sure if it's worth the additional costs. Maybe more money should be spent on a better quality DAC?

@navyachts 

big_greg - Thanks Greg. I tried to pull up your system, but it wouldn't load for me? I just wanted to check it out.

Off the subject, when you reply on these thread how do you get the @ in front of the members handle when you reply, like this:

@big_greg

I don't have a virtual system.  I've thought about it, but never find time.  Not to mention I have 4 systems and rotate a lot of gear through the main system, so I'd constantly be updating.  That has slowed down, so maybe someday...

Here's the digital part of my system - 

Roon Nucleus

Aqua La Voce S3 DAC

Connected to a Herron Audio VTSP-360 preamp, Ampzilla 2000 Second Edition monoblock amps, KEF Reference 1 speakers.

To get the "@" just type @ and the person's "handle" and it should show up.  Might take a few seconds and can be finicky on mobile devices. 

@big_greg Hey, it worked! Thanks for the tip.

Awesome system Greg, my dream DAC!

@navyachts  I'm really happy with the Aqua DAC. I find myself getting frustrated that I can't get my more expensive vinyl front end to sound as good.