Rogue Audio hard to resell, has it fallen out of favor ?
I've had a Rogue Sphinx 3 listed for a month at what sure looks to be a great price- $899. A few half hearted inquiries who then go dark. The unit is $1600 new. I haven't even gotten any low ball offers- which usually happens with any item I post, its part of the process. Meanwhile I've sold a Pass 250.8, An ARC REF150SE, and two other expensive amps with little trouble.
Is the low end of the market suffering? Is Rogue falling out of favor ? My listing is at least $100 lower than a similar one and I think they're both priced fairly. I'll keep it rather than list for any lower.
@phd ..good to hear. Used to have 80wpc tube monoblocks driving the top modules of Von Schweikert VR-4’s and the heat was incredible (but so was the sound.. at least up top). Unfort the first time I had to re-tube it required a dozen Sovtek 5881’s and quad NOS Phillips 6SN7 GTB’s. Not sustainable.. and that was the late 1990’s (post-pandemic, I can’t even imagine). To keep a tube signature, a Rogue Metis Magnum pre seemed like an interesting alternative. I didn’t expect much, esp given how cheap the base model was, and even in its Magnum form with stock tubes it was still a bit rough, but after finding the right tubes and a couple mods courtesy of Rogue’s excellent support, it’s actually pretty impressive. The big improvement for me (being an unbuffered dual-tube design) was going to the right 6F8G/VT99 tube (with adapters to separate the power lead from the internals of the standard 6SN7 tube).
I’ve also got new GaNFET mono’s and an older Pass labs Class A amp in other ss system config’s, but the setup having an older class D amp coupled with the humble (but tweaked) Rogue surpasses them both for ambient soundscape with clean natural detail.. recreating the dimensional ambience of a recording in a delicate, non-fatiguing way without sacrificing dynamics, LF texture, extension, etc. My speaker’s designer once told me the 6SN7 is a very low distortion tube.. 7th order distortion, so not the predominately 2nd order you get w 300b’s, etc.. which might explain why the Métis is excelling at detailed ambient retrieval (while still being dynamic).
AFAIK, the later Rogue preamps are supposedly significantly better than the old Metis, esp in base form, but that inexpensive little thing has massive potential if you’ve got the right tubes for it.. it’s just highly sensitive being an unbuffered design.
jhw9, you're really fortunate & lucky to own a Rogue Metis because they are not put up for sale very often, in fact I can't find even one for sale on the internet. I removed mine for sale after I got my senses.back. Purchased some new 6SN7s (Sylvania) and it sounds super good. It already is beating out a five thousand preamp I own.
@phd...another Metis user. I Love my Metis because It’s only got two tube sockets.. no buffer tubes which means rolling is inexpensive.. and possible.. and gives very different results depending on the tube. NOS such as Tung Sol VT99, older Raytheon 6F8G, Sylvania Grey glass (all w adapters) are all excellent choices however. Transparency is the best quality about any component. I used to use a Steve McCormack passive but the Metis with the right tubes has let me pack that back into the box. Rogue has given me excellent support with my mod requests.
The thing about selling gear, and this is any gear, it doesn’t sell until it sells. I’ve had stuff sit there weeks or longer and then boom sold, it just takes one buyer. Patience is a virtue when trying to sell gear in a crowded marketplace.
audioguiy85, yes that might happen but in the event it does you will see me running down the road with a speaker under each arm, balancing an amp and preamp yelling:: "But they're not getting this!" LOL
I plan to round out my small collection of amps with the purchase of the rogue sphinx v3 or maybe a v4 version if/when available. I already own a class A, and a class AB amp, so it would be nice to own a class D with tubes. Plus I think the sphinx looks bitchin in black! I read HR's review of it, and I have great respect for the man. I've bought several components based on his reviews which include the Hana el and the wharfedale 225's. He's spot on with his reviews and is a humble and honest man. I've even spoke with him on messenger.....
I'm not a tube guy but I do own the Rogue Metis tube preamp among other things. Nice thing about It is it mutes its circuit until the tubes (6SN7s) stabilizes. It puts out a massive soundstage, a very transparent device, pushes all the right buttons, and compares favorably to my Conrad Johnson. My only gripe is that there is a bit more bass than I like, but could be circumvented by tube rolling.
Recently I put it up for sale and received several offers and one offer stood out. A guy from Seattle who owns a Winery offered several bottles of his finest wine in trade for the Metis. I declined only because I don't drink. Other offers were for trades as well. My conclusion is that people are harder up for cash which is not surprising given the current economic climate and it's not getting any better.
The Sphinx got a bad review on a prominent site. Also, I had a number of Rogue components but moved on to pure Class D (Nord) which sounds fantastic. Who needs tube components, hybrids, massive preamps and amps anymore? But Rogue is a great company and if you like that stuff go for it.
My 2 cents… I did not view this a disguised ad… it’s a legitimate concern…even Benchmark sales prices and timing have taken a hit….and there is definitely a lot more completion with more and more people wanting to at least try a Purifi, Hypex or GaN offering.
So, if this thread generates a few creative ideas that help…then it was a useful thread.
This is a silly post. Rogue Audio builds world class gear and sells it at sane prices. No, it’s not audio jewelry but its performance, where it counts, is consistently better than its direct competition. I should also note that it has been my experience that their customer service is some of the best in the business. I’ve owned several Rogue products over the years including the Sphinx V3, and currently the Pharaoh V2 that I had Rogue upgrade to the Dark version. All I can say is I have not been disappointed with the results. YMMV.
Rogue attempts to appeal to the more cost conscious hi end consumer, but unfortunately this customer base has also been the most affected by inflation eroding their discretionary spending.
In my experience with the preamp I had and the amplifier I had from Rog audio didn't impress me at all that maybe why you can't get rid of this stupid thing in my opinion they sound pretty crappy
@speedthrills asks a good question, which I honestly don't have a good answer for.
But I will say this, I sold a very old AR turntable in rough condition a year or two back, I did put a low price on it, but was still surprised it sold quickly. I think it's just luck. You have to have what someone is looking for at the right moment at the right price.
I’ve got I special Rogue two-tube VT99 preamp that I will probably never sell. I think in the case of the Sphynx (being a hybrid tube/class-D design), it has to compete in a rapidly changing and improving segment with saucy new technologies (GANFet). That said, I pair my Rogue preamp with older Ice Power Class-D mono’s, and I also own GANFet monos (driven directly by a streamer), and honestly I initially couldn’t pick one over the other, they each have their strengths and weaknesses.. both are great, but I chose the Rogue Pre paired with my older Ice Powers as my daily listeners because I like to roll, and with the right tubes the top end is more detailed.. yet organic. Some slight noise might be a small issue given a sensitive speaker, but not in my case. It’s very quiet from where I sit.
I think many buyer’s might worry about older class-D products.. whether it be Hypex or Ice Power. Also, selling audio gear in the months leading up to Xmas is a bit challenging given the potential buyer’s wife may not like seeing a present showing up for them right before.. I think many may hold off a couple mos. However, I’d also bet there are people out there somewhere pining for an affordable Sphynx. Some people just want a reasonably priced vessel to roll what has now become a particularly expensive NOS tube inventory.
Traditionally Rogue’s lower price-tier true tube amps & preamps have held relatively good value. Their Class D hybrids are tougher on resale, as is their TOTL gear. It’s just market demands at play.
And if you take ASR seriously, then you should simply NEVR buy anything with a tube in it, EVER. There’s no overlap in those 2 audiences.
I’ve owned Rogue Audio throughout the years and their equipment is just barely hifi in quality. Sold it and would probably not buy Rogue again because there are much better products for the same or less cost.
It doesn’t help that it received a rather scathing review by ASR. That and both ASR and Stereophile measurements reveal the Sphinx falls considerably short of meeting its claimed power spec.
Amir at ASR predominately does not listen to the products he measures. It is also well known in ASR forums that tube amps/preamps do not measure as well as SS, due to the added distortion that tubes provide.
I would also point out that if you actually study where this amp falls with others in his measurements graph, you will notice that tube amps are on the lower end of measurements (again they add distortion which does not "measure" well but that is the point for buyers) and that the best measuring devices are pretty much in the order of cost. While there are exceptions to every rule, a more expensive amp will measure better than one that is less expensive. Not surprising. In fact, most of what Amir comes up with is not surprising, but it does instigate chatter.
As for Stereophile, longtime reviewer Herb R. reviewed it (listened to it) and finished his view with this quote:
I promise, you have my word: The Rogue Sphinx V3 will someday be remembered, like the original NAD 3020 integrated amp, as one of the greatest high-value audio products of all time.
Per his analysis, the Rogue Sphinx excels in the phono stage and headphone amp sections. This is typical of all Rogue products. You get what you pay for.
Also, while the two tubes in the Sphinx are at the input stage, and not the output, changing out those tubes does elevate the sound.
On a personal note, I had a Prima Luna Preamp for a couple of years. Enjoyed it, but was not in love with the sound or synergy that it gave to my SS amps. Amir had measured it’s predecessor, the Dialogue, a year before and panned it.
About two years ago I was able to sell the Prima Luna I had for a fair amount more than I had paid for it. A first in my journey of buying and selling audiophile equipment! While there is some truth in that the turnover of that piece of gear was pandemic related, Prima Luna products have gone up in price because they are wildly popular, even though they do not measure well.
Getting 50% of retail on many used items listed here is good. I had a pair of open baffle speakers that took two postings to sell - a first for me having an ad expire without a sale. It sold for about 55% of retail which is what I paid several years ago. I concur be patient. Let the price drift down some which is what I did on my listing that just sold. One guy tried to low ball me but it was purchased right out from under him.
It doesn’t help that it received a rather scathing review by ASR. That and both ASR and Stereophile measurements reveal the Sphinx falls considerably short of meeting its claimed power spec.
No one has any money due to the ridiculous inflation! Been grocery shopping lately? Freaking unreal how much it costs just to eat. Plus some people expect to pay little to nothing for something hardly used! They even balk at a listing that is close to $1000 off the retail price, even when Said product is listed as new and unopened...what do they expect to pay? No clue how some think....any how, I hear ya....
The Rogue Sphinx is a great integrated amp especially because the phono stage was upgraded. It’s a hybrid so the tubes are on the input. The rest is solid state. I have recommended this amp to so many people. That being said the helicopter money is gone and probably now the people buying said amp or in that price range are the ones who can afford it. I think 66% of the people maybe 68% with our new guests have $1000 beyond their monthly bills. That is really limiting buyers. Every audiophile store said they had the best three years ever starting in 2020. I just hope and prey these price hikes will calm down before the whole world implodes on itself. I feel selling that Sphinx in a month was good especially if you received close to asking price. The sad truth is things change. You have to sell when the market is hot. If you don’t you will not make that same return on your investment overall. I will bet in a year or so you will be amazed at what you can buy for very little money. My advise is sell everything you are not using or maybe even need. This is good for you, AGon, and probably even the buyer who could not afford a Sphinx for $1700.
Also, Life is way to short to get upset with each other. We are a small group of people who should be helping more people enjoy the audiophile world. I know I appreciate your advise weather you have 1 or 13,000 posts.
@ceyyour thoughts are spot on ! think. I'm in a FB group for Rogue owners and many owners of the amps are so pleased with the performance that they ask a lot of questions about upgrading to the other models.I only have a Rogue preamp so I don't participate in those conversations, but there seem to be new ones daily.
The Sphinx is a great 2 channel integrated amplifier at the price point, with the power for most systems and offered by a company that supports their products. It is a hybrid having tubes in the preamp stage, some want to avoid tubes. It has features than many would not need, phonostage and headphone amp, and two many would like, DAC and processor loop. Therefore making it somewhat more esoteric a product.
I own a version 3 and am not using the phonostage or headphone amp at the moment. I would use a processor loop if it had one.
Probably because other people have a similar priced unit that they feel is as good or better than the Rogue unit. Most people are trying to upgrade and not move sideways IMO.
perhaps too many of em for sale for too long. i never saw something so current so common on the used market. i never hear or read anyone say its crap or loaded with design flaws, so i figured either the new sales were off the charts, its a gateway amp or its especially popular with who hqave chronic, rapid-onset upgrade-itis. right now is one of the rare times where i dont see any chronus magnum for sale on hifi shark.
Your original question: "Rogue Audio hard to resell, has it fallen out of favor ?"
I think less than a month is a decent time line for a sale, especially with all the wacky weather we have had recently. Your ad on AudiogoN & AudioMart had only one photo and they where different. One had a photo of what looks like a additional component that is not part of the package. Yours was also the lowest price of any and that sometimes puts doubts in buyer's minds. Your offering a factory upgraded version over Version3, new from the factory might also factor in a buyer's decision making.
Comparing the sale of Pass & ARC gear to the Rogue, to me, is like apples & oranges.
So, the answer to your original, title question is no.
I have a friend that it just took 7months to sell a pretty popular LTA amplifier. Price was set ‘normal’, too. Used sales do also slow down in the winter. Spring and Fall are quicker selling times, in general.
@yogiboyThank you! I really did ask a legit question and got a lot of good answers, with some people indicating they were seeing the same thing with products they had listed and provided constructive comments and advice. As always there are the usual naysayers, keyboard warriors etc. Tough room, which is why I don't post much.
In any event it sold last night so despite a few posters continuing to attack and criticize my intents, the price, whatever else they opt to zero in on, I'll thank those who offered good input and hope to avoid those that piled on in the future. Cheers.
Tell 61 to take a break , he is just baffled because of the lack of interest.
put a ad on u.s audio mart and add a review link and a OBO ,someone will buy it
but you may have to lower the price ,which version is it ?you didnot mention That ,if older 40% of it’s cost if you are lucky .
So, it sold in about a month and you are complaining? If you got your asking price of $934.00 shipped, which is more than 1/2 price used in less than a month, I don't understand your position.
Yes, pls - get to the bottom of this lol. I have so much time on my hands that I both posted an ad for my sphinx, which is also posted on USAM btw, then posted about low interest and asked for input- all really a ruse to generate a contentious forum thread. Jeez...
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