Remarkably better sound possible with just 1 system component change?

Would just get the best Audioquest power conditioner you can afford.Will make every component perform better.

I'd call Vintage Tube Services and see if there are tubes that would elevate that MC 2600.  

You’ve obviously gotten a lot of suggestions, but I’ll add to the pile.

The two upgrades that made far more impact than I was expecting were adding power regeneration (in my case a PS Audio Power Plant 12) and Isoacoustics Gaia feet to decouple my speakers from the floor. Both were nearly as dramatic as any non-speaker upgrade I’ve done.

Agreed with the other person in the thread who said that given how sensitive your speakers are, a lower-powered tube amp might improve things quite a bit too.

You may want to consider adding instead of replacing.   and With the Be tweeter and with Focal's famous 6.5" mids, I'm sure the vocals are terrific as you mention. However, the Kanta 2 speakers only go down to 35Hz. Not surprising for a pair of 6.5" woofers. You say the bass is 'punchy'.  Punchy bass usually means bass you can hear, not feel.  A subwoofer may add what you're looking for by providing bass and slam that you can feel, especially at low listening levels.  And you'd only need to spend $2,000 - $3,000.

From your photo, it looks like your setup violates just about every "best practice" for how to set up a listening room acoustically. Multiple hard reflective surfaces in the most sensitive areas, etc. No amount of gear changes or upgrades will overcome poor acoustics. Best recommendation is to invest some time in any of the many publications available (RH's bible for example) on the do's and don't's of setting up a room for good acoustics.

J.Chip

Yes, Qobuz sounds better than Tidal, I tried both though don't listen to either - they don't have what I want and the sound quality is not good enough.
Suggestion of two subs makes a lot of sense.
Still, I would probably try to improve the source first.
As for cabling, I am a cable guy and do my best in this respect.
And the last thought. If you want dramatic improvement - get rid of everything, one by one, and start building your system anew. In this case, choose speakers first, of course.

I love your system - I have the C2600 and the MC302. 
My upgrade path will likely be mono blocks- I am interested in the 901s. 
If you like your sound I would focus on the source or the speakers. 
Since you enjoy the Focals upgrading the model would be worth a listen. 
I am currently trying Qobuz versus Tidal. Too early to say it’s more than a marginal difference. 
The other thought I have is bi-amping with a tube amp.  Perhaps the MC1502. 
Good luck and let us know your experience 

If I were you, this is what I will do:
1. Change to Lumin X1 (used one for ~ 8.5-9 K). 
2. Get fiber optic ethernet connection, with or without ethernet switch like etheregen (strongly recommended) (< 750 $).
3. Definite yes for room treatment.
You can then consider changing speaker cables, ICs and power cords. For cables, you will get tons of suggestions, but to keep under budget, you might have to do some trials. My favorite is Silversmith Fideliums. 

@ millercarbon
Where do you have your Schumann generators placed? Do they need to be 5 ft off the floor as suggested?

+1 @chiapinnelli And yet the component, speaker, and cable/cord suggestions just keep pouring in. As if that would make a difference if the room is not addressed.

@romney80  I agree with you about upgrading to a Lumin X1. The upgrade to an X1 is wise because many people have reported that the fiber optic port of the Lumin X1 sounds better than the RJ45 Ethernet port, which puts the X1 in a world-class league when it comes to DAC/Streamers. 

Help me understand the suggestion to get an EtherREGEN device for approx $750.  I understand eliminating electrical noise that copper Ethernet cables can carry by inserting the EtherREGEN device. But that can be done for less than $100 with a TrendNet media converter, SFP module and fiber optic cable to connect to a Lumin X1. 

What functions does the EtherREGEN provide other than getting rid of electrical noise?

Must be nice to have 10k to burn....I’d use it for an emergency fund in these amazing times...not blow it on a piece of overrated gear which incidentally most of this stuff is. There are way too many budget components available today that sound quite wonderful without spending ridiculous amounts of money on. JMO

Where do you have your Schumann generators placed? Do they need to be 5 ft off the floor as suggested?

The best way to use the Schumann Generators is connected in a grid....I connected them to my resonators grids and i use my "golden plate" on them....

Height varying: 4 to 6 feet....

I use 11 of them around my listening position.... 😁

But only one ionizer (a non ozone one and silent one) will did also a very great impact....



My last device is very powerful:

A"Helmholtz-Fibonacci silent organ": a room tuner...

3 sets of ordinary brick with in each one 3 tubular copper plumber pipes with lenght near the golden ratio...

And too many other things to be described....

I am nuts but my audiophile experience is almost free for all....







«Their  Achille’s heel is that they must sell you something»- Anonymus Smith

That’s a cool room! I’m working on something similar, and yeah it will also break a lot of acoustic room treatment rules.

Pretty much everything has been said, but I’ll add my 40 years of experience here:

(1) At the level of gear you have, a "remarkable" improvement is going to be hard to come by. Synergy between components is important, and that can’t be taken in a single step. It requires auditioning gear within your system from a dealer that trusts you’ll bring it back or pay for it. Andy at Saturday Audio Exchange has let me audition endless pieces of gear and it’s a lovely way to build the system. But anyway, my main point here is that improvement takes time and work and is thus usually incremental, not dramatic.

(2) You would benefit from acoustic modification to the room. But it doesn’t have to disrupt anything - you need to take it as a challenge and get creative. Get the Metallica logo printed on a giant set of drapes and then you can take down the poster...no loss then. Bass traps in team colors, etc. You want remarkable improvement, then you’re going to have to put in some remarkable effort. Good audio isn’t $$.

(3) You said you’re not looking for more bass, but I am a big fan of REL subs for this reason - they are not really tuned to make explosions in movies move your couch. They add "air" to the room and I often find the biggest impact of the good REL subs is on the vocals. Part of the REL goal is to pick up the frequencies that create hints around the physical space where the music was recorded, and it can sort of take you away.

(4) If you already love your system at high volume and it is low volume where you want improvement, this you might be able to force without finesse by adding a small integrated tube amp and near field speakers near your seating area. It might be hard to extend out the sweet spot from your main system.

(5) It doesn’t look like you’ve placed your seating area to be in the sweet spot, as above, or at least your room implies you may be listening from a number of different stations around the room. Not that I think gear is your issue, but dipolar or bipolar speakers tend to have a wider dispersion of listenable sound. Consider a pair for when you’re not sitting still in the sweet spot.

(6) Source can give dramatic upgrades too. I don’t know the Lumin gear but I do prefer the non-MQA Qobuz sound.

(7) One more idea just for fun: get yourself set up with a reasonable 5.1 system and start collecting 5.1 channel DVD-Audio, SACD, and Blu Ray disks. Now that is a remarkable improvement, and with just the built-in room correction on your AVR, it somewhat defeats the issues with your room.

Sorry for the tome, I guess not everything had been said.

Oh yeah, and good weed.

@cycles2 I also have simple < 75$ fiber optic converter in addition to ethergen. I have seen significant improvement in this “switch”. I don’t have lumin x1, but with my streamer, using fiber optic + etheregen was much better than fiber optic alone. It could be system dependent and there are no absolutes: I think it is worth trial, as they can be returned back in 1 month if you don’t see benefit. Also to OP, adding a good subwoofer (preferably 2), will be a huge improvement. Good luck.  

Would speaker podiums be of benefit if speakers are on a concrete floor?

A lot of suggestions offered. Unfortunately the bulk of them will NOT bring about a significant improvement. In fact unless the room acoustics are sorted the small but worth while potential of some of these suggestions will be lost in your room which leads people to refer to some as 'snake oil'

To get to hear the sound your existing components are capable of requires that your room allow you to do so. Changing cables etc. in your room as it stands is futile as some have mentioned. With sound left to propagate in your room unchecked, causing smear, congestion and lack of detail you will not be able to fully appreciate what the already mentioned Max Townshend platforms can bring to the party. Ditto with cable lifters, AC filters and so forth.

A bit of theory but let me first relate what a stubborn mate found out. In a small almost square floorplan with no carpet or drapes and very little else he kept upgrading to progressively more expensive cartridges and was getting nowhere. And he never will. He has upgraded amps and speakers at great expense but not achieved much. I brought round a bunch of rockwool panels and distributed them without too much fuss. It was merely to demonstrate what was possible.

It transformed his system. I do not say that lightly. He and is ever suffering wife were stunned.

I have copied and pasted part of a post of mine from another forum:

For whatever reason, treating a room is low on the priority list or just completely ignored. The Royal Albert Hall in the UK had a big problem with the dome. People joked about the echo, saying: you can hear any piece twice at the RAH. After many attempts they resorted to dispersion by installing large 'upside down mushrooms.

My point being, all rooms need acoustic treatment and the smaller the room the more important it is. All it takes to tackle this scientifically is to download for FREE the very useful REW and buy, for about the same price as modest interconnect cable, a microphone. Online you can find, also free, programs that will identify the modal issues. So you let REW produce a waterfall plot of your room. This will show exactly where the peaks and nulls lie and also the amount of time the sound takes to decay.

How long should that decay be? Good question. Work out the volume of your room and find online a table that provides the correct T60 for that size room. T60 is the time it takes for the sound to decay by 60dB and for my room is about 400ms.

This is not expensive, provides a bigger 'upgrade' than any component swap and is great fun. When I first did this I found it to be quite exciting to watch the waterfall plot reveal that the peaks were being tamed and the nulls started filling in. Bass traps are needed to reach the lower frequencies and as I added them I noticed that what was previously a partial or complete null start reaching up to the mean amplitude.

For anybody reading this not familiar with peaks and nulls on a plot, a complete null is zero music. When this fills in from preventing bass waves from combining destructively you now get to hear parts of the music not previously heard. When preventing bass from combining constructively you tame the peaks which lead to one-note-bass. On my system I can hear all the detail of Ray Brown' double bass and its wonderful.

No amount of money thrown at bigger better amps and/or speakers can provide that music being cancelled in the nulls. It's gone and you ain't getting it back unless you address the cancellation problem. And no Sir, EQ can not bring it back. Partial nulls can be boosted a little but this will not help the power response. Some nulls will require maybe a 20dB boost but where will your power come from. A 12dB boost will need power doubled 4 times. So from 60 watts to 960 watts but of course there are not many domestic speakers that can handle 1Kw and even if they could would just cancel those particular frequencies with the same power!

Small scraps of foam, beach towels and bookcases just physically can't achieve this unfortunately.

As you can see from my comments above EQ can not in any way manufacture the music missing in the nulls. Partial nulls can be boosted but only a little before the amp runs out of power. Those Lyngdorf type units can help only if the main acoustics are reasonable. It should be obvious that the unit certainly can't take a group of frequencies and reduce its decay time. Correct room treatment can.

Also if you are not interested in the effort to measure then simply absorbing at the first reflection points and adding a couple of bass traps will make a significant difference. A DBA will improve things further.

This post is getting too long so I'll finish by saying I can see an easy way for you to install some treatment that can benefit the stereo side and home theater and without it getting in the way. Simple and adjustable.

Let me know if you are interested. I have spent considerable time with another member emailing back and forth only to get an email from his wife : "Look here, we're not interested"

A lot of suggestions offered. Unfortunately the bulk of them will NOT bring about a significant improvement. In fact unless the room acoustics are sorted the small but worth while potential of some of these suggestions will be lost in your room which leads people to refer to some as ’snake oil’

Many audio devices injustly qualified as"snake oil" are not working well because of the lack of controls in acoustic of the room....

No upgrade rival acoustical controls....

Electronic design upgrade dont lit a candle compared to acoustic controls in audio.....

But all magazines sell new "improved" electronic design not acoustic method....

At best they speak time to time about passive acoustic materials but passive treatment is NOT non electronic active controls, and these 2 are NOT electronic active controls either and must not be confused....The road is not a simple linear way....Ears reign supreme here, governing these correlations between passive treatment and the two kind of active controls; measuring device are only tool under ears supervision....

On my under 500 bucks system i can hear the vibraphone aural tone hues changing dynamic decay with each passing tone and the sound dont come from my speakers, why?

Not because my amplifier is a Sansui, not because my speakers are Mission Cyruss , not because of my Dac....They are only good products among many others....

Because acoustical controls are in place.... But it is VERY important dont forget mechanical and electrical controls.....Unbeknownst to most these 2 controls are on par in transforming power with acoustical controls.... All these controls i called audio system embeddings controls 😊

I only underline here the importance of the last post by lemonhaze....

Lol

Lol

«Noise of laughs are arrows or mirror»-Anonymus smith

«A laugh without context is a disease»- unknown doctor 

1st, your room is the " busiest " room I have ever seen, and I have seen / been in / listened in, all kinds of rooms. Given you are restricted / preferred to combining 2 channel with home theater in one room, and you are pretty much enjoying what you have, you need to ask yourself........What specifically, am I looking to improve ? Do I want more detail ? More dynamics ? Greater bass output and extension ? Greater ability to connect more with the musicians ( bingo, this is the most important )? Getting opinions by anyone, will not get you anywhere, as it is all up to you, and your wants and needs are very different than everyone else's. Most people are on a roller coaster, trying to find their " holy grail " of sound. I will tell you this. Once you realize that the recordings we listen to ( except for a handful ) are our weakest link in most of our listening, you will understand a very important lesson ( fact ), that " it " will never sound live. Purchase the cds or downloads of Tony Minasian ( of Tonian Labs ), and you will see how FANTASTIC your system really is. Enjoy and be well !

That room is a critical mess and indicates that the priority of the OP is sports and not music.  Let’s be realistic here....decide which is a priority and then move forward!  If it’s a good time, celebratory environment then go big on dynamics like I said earlier.  Don’t pretend to be an audiophile while stacking soccer balls between your speakers and equipment stand.  

Lay off

Stupid comments. 

I agree with the statement  Room correction with room treatment are the biggest dramatic changes you can make.   My former room was twice as big (25X20X11.5) but my new room is professionally constructed by an acoustical engineer (19.5X16X10 net area, gross is 16" wider/longer on all walls, 12"-15" 3000 lb psi steel reinforced floor).   The difference is 100% improvement in sound.   Millercarbon is not a fool.  I don't know if Hemholz resonators will work but vibration control devices can make HUGE improvements, second only to acoustics.   His choice of Townsend products is a wise one.  I have a mix of Townsend, Stillpoints and Synergistic Research.  All equipment varies per product/line but Townsend products have proven to work for me wherever I put them.

Hey OP - we are all allowed to have the room that we like.  Please don't listen to the criticism. I myself have tried to craft my area into a combo of the bridge of the Enterprise (TNG), a sports bar, and an Amsterdam Coffee Shop.  

They're right on some points though - figuring out what you're looking for beyond "improvement" is critical. It's like your are cooking a complex dish...you can't just make it "better"...does it need garlic?  paprika? 

I use only homemade device of my own.... NO buying....

There is no MAGIC in controlling vibrations, the electrical noise floor and room acoustic...

All those publicity about the way to create a Hi-Fi experience only with money are largely false...This come from SELLERS....

New design and costlier one are better than my vintage yes, but their margin of superiority cannot exceed the abyss between a well embedded audio system and one which is not well embedded in the mechanical, electrical and acoustical dimensions...

Almost nobody ever teach that on these forums but all people boast about the branded names of their choices for proof of superiority.... 😁 And they all boasted about their own without realizing that others are right also about their own favorite.....

It is ridiculous...Acting like sellers is not the way....

Yes some branded name are better, but the BASIC is not the recommendation of the "alleged"  best branded name, the basic is HOW to install an audio system, what i called a set of  embeddings controls....Not a " Tweak"....An embedding control is primary not a secondary addition... An embedding control is homemade and custom made for a SPECIFIC house and system and specific ears...An embedding control is devised by listening experiments...An embedding control is specific, a "tweak" is generic....

An embedding control cost peanuts....."tweak" cost money....





For the OP question if he want to change something and only one thing the ACOUSTIC settings of the room is the only upgrading possibility and the most powerful one after that the electrical noisy grid of the house and the vibrations/ resonance in the speakers mainly......... Any change of gear before these three set of controls will be a waste of money and an "illusory" upgrading with small benefits...

Rule number one: we must know the real working potential of what we already own before changing it.....

Rule number one: we must know the real working potential of what we already own before changing it.....

Brilliant!

If you love your sound, except at low volume, you need to correct for unnatural frequency response due to Fletcher-Munson effect. I.e., you need loudness compensation or equalization. Try a Schiit Loki. It will improve low volume greatly, when tuned to your listening preferences. Bypass the Loki at normal volumes.
For component upgrade, I would replace the Lumin first, then speaker cables, and add Audioquest or Shunyata power conditioning. All of these changes have worked for me.

Anybody have a link for American made Schumann generators?

As mentioned, you room is a tough one. We ALL have room issues unless able to build and dedicate a listening room as strictly a listening room. When a room has dual, or multi purpose, there are concessions made. There has to be. With your room, all of your wall hangings are going to cause issues. You’ve basically created a 4 walled mirror. About as bad as it gets for reflection, slap echo, etc. Essentially your room just bounces frequencies around like crazy. Adding a sub or subs to that will be a nightmare. Maybe contact GIK Acoustics.They can make sound panels to pretty much any pattern, picture etc. if your wall hangings are simply decoration without value or sentiment, you could perhaps replace some of them with acoustic treatments that look the same, but benefit the room. Ceiling additions could help tremendously with such a low reflection point. There are ways to get your room acoustically better without drastically changing what you have created. Just need to think a little out of the box. That would be money well spent. 

Hey guys, I took all your feedback right to the heart of my tympanum and spent all weekend converting my mancave into an anechoic listening room. Luckily I was able to repurpose all my posters/art by first painting them with acousti-coat sound and radiation absorbent paint and then wrapping the pieces in DMD acoustic fabric to create acoustic panels. I credit dave-b's post for sparking this inflection point and my transition to a true audiophile. See below for a picture of my new Man-echoic cave.

http://imgur.com/a/hSHVUHo

Many thanks to dave_b for helping me realize the error and folly of my hitherto non audiophile ways. I used to pretend that I was an audiophile, but that was just fake news and nothing could have been further from the truth. I also lied about loving the sound of my system. Truth be told, I had created the perfect echo chamber, so much so that no matter the source or music I played, all I would hear is this.

https://youtu.be/sJlpoQnlrw0

PS: I punctured all the soccer balls, strategically placed them around the manechoic cave and am now using the hollowed out acoustically treated cores as bass traps. Dave-b gets credit for that too

Well played, @chandybe.

At the very least, let us know what you decide to do.

T.

I like that album Chris. I have it on a Japanese pressing. Not as good as Fleetwood Mac, but very good nonetheless. You must have a bad pressing. Gotta love Tom Petty and Don Henley guest appearances.

Giving this some more thought ( not a whole lot, mind you ), adding upgraded power cables ( significant ime ), and moving the listening chair to a " near field " one, with re-positioning the main speakers, would be improvements. 

chandybe  Took a look at your new environment and I see you have been very busy. 

I have read and re-read the comments. My initial response is not to jump. I recently felt that there was a layer of "fuzz" in my system. I tried 3 different power amps and a new preamp (watch for a sale soon). In the end I added Isoacoustic Gaia feet to my speakers and was shocked with what I heard. Better bass definition, better midrange extension and detail, a more open top end, and a dead quiet, black background. Clarity that I have never heard. My next thought is your amp and preamp simply are not right for your speakers. Your preamp is not that open and clean on the top and bottom. Nor are the Kimber 8TCs. Buy the Gaia then rent some new speaker wires from the Cable Company. Small costs and possible big gains. Then see where you are and maybe try a 70 watt tube amp. Good luck.

I have read and re-read the comments. My initial response is not to jump. I recently felt that there was a layer of "fuzz" in my system. I tried 3 different power amps and a new preamp (watch for a sale soon). In the end I added Isoacoustic Gaia feet to my speakers and was shocked with what I heard. Better bass definition, better midrange extension and detail, a more open top end, and a dead quiet, black background. Clarity that I have never heard. My next thought is your amp and preamp simply are not right for your speakers. Your preamp is not that open and clean on the top and bottom. Nor are the Kimber 8TCs. Buy the Gaia then rent some new speaker wires from the Cable Company. Small costs and possible big gains. Then see where you are and maybe try a 70 watt tube amp. Good luck.

Update -

I've implemented a few acoustic upgrades to the listening space, namely a bookshelf and some art that doubles as smart sound wave canceling/reinforcing/diffusing acoustic panels. They work quite brilliantly, I have to say.

http://imgur.com/a/cVlTvTQ

http://imgur.com/a/uyW7SFQ

Apart from that, I just placed an order for a pair of REL S/812 subwoofers. After those arrive, I plan to build a 2nd listening space in my man-echoic cave, anchored by either a pair of Focal Sopra 3s or B&W 802 D3s. I've been lusting after those speakers for some time and I just have to have one of those pairs, acoustics be damned. And I plan to use an integrated tube amplifier for that 2nd system, such as something like a Raven Blackhawk.

Following that, there are several recommendations I've received that I plan to investigate and potentially pursue, including speaker and component footers/podiums, power conditioning, a higher quality streamer/DAC such as the Lumin T2 or X1, and better cables.

Thanks again for all the input.

To clarify, despite my sardonic utterances, I am a firm believer in the importance and possibly even, (near) primacy of a room’s acoustics, but all of us have certain non negotiable and unmitigable constraints, and acoustics fall in that category for me, at least in my current listening environs.

You’ve received a lot of good advice already.

To lower the sound floor and get more detail at low sound volume require power. Your Macs are more than adequate at delivering that. It’s your speakers that are the limiting factor.

Hybrid electrostatics would be able to give you what you are looking for, I’ve been partial to Martin Logan’s.

Here are a pair of ML Expression 13A’s that would fit the bill at $9000:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa7c7h-martin-logan-esl-expression-13a-full-range

Be forewarned that they do require at least 3’ of space around them.

A review:
https://www.dagogo.com/martinlogan-expression-esl-13a-hybrid-electrostatic-speaker-review/

My system has all digital input sources and is very similar to yours, though I do have a "PS Audio stack".  Most often I stream Qobuz using my Roon Nucleus Plus server into my PS Audio DirectStream DAC, then into a McIntosh C2500, McIntosh MC452 and Focal Sopra No2's.  I upgraded my PS Audio P10 power regenerator to the new P15 model and that one change improved the soundstage, the detail and improved the definition of the bass.  I also have a pair of JL Audio F113V2 sub woofers, making the improvement in the bass immediately noticeable.

I once purchased 5 new power cables, because I had money burning a hole in my pocket, but didn't believe they would change the sound I had. I put them in place, and went to work. When I got home, I had forgotten about changing the power cables. My wife came from the kitchen, asking what was different as soon as I turned music on. It was THAT noticable. Shocked me to death, cause I was not a believer at all about power cords. I still am shocked today about it. But as good as my system was, a clarity like veil lifting occurred. All of my friends that regularly listened to my system noticed immediately, WITHOUT knowing I had  changed anything. THIS is proof power cables can sound different. At least the Black Sands Violet power cable anyway. I can't speak to any other brands. But this simple one change made a noticeable difference and improvement. Believe it or not, lol. Cause I barely did!

Not to be needlessly redundant, I can’t recommend SRA VR platforms enough. Their improvements when placed under my components is major- night and day.

DAC.   Game changer.

I'm having trouble pulling up the room image but yours sounds rather drastic for audio but not to worry. My own room is a combination of walls of windows with Rocky Mtn views I will not ignore. Almost every other space of bare wall is covered with oil paintings (luckily not more glass). I love my space. It's for scenic beauty, music, and art and literature (separate TV area).

If you have a primary position/chair for listening (or TV) then I'm with golfmd2 in recommending room correction as the single largest bang for the buck you will ever hear. I use a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core and I promise you that you will not hear a larger improvement in the sound of your system once you room correct for bass peaks.

That DSP is under $1000 and it seems many outside our community can't really hear much so adjust for your chair and don't worry. With the apparent liveliness of you room (somewhat like mine) you can easily dial down the treble highs due to reflections. Hearing good speakers correctly and properly equalized for a room is an absolutely stunning A/B revelation. (Trying to boost nulls is a joke. Don't.)

I'd have originally said DSP and a sub, for cheap:  an SVS SB-3000 (pretty amazing-I have one). I use an REL Britannia B1 so I think you'll be thrilled with those new S/812 subs. I'd beg you to try the DSP unit and I'm positive you will only have good things to say when you dial it in; I'll never sacrifice mine and it made good Raidho D2 speakers sound even better.  Good luck.

Keep the speakers at least 3 feet from the wall behind it. I always thought mine were until I was looking at some acoustic panels and traps (GIK acoustics told me it wasn't worth doing the limited things I can do because of my multiple listening positions and the room, and my wife).

They were only about 30" from the wall in back of them and I moved them out another 6" and it made a noticeable difference.