Recommendations for a jazz record which demonstrates vinyl superiority over digital

John Schofield  double LP "Hand Jive".  Better than CD?  Impossible to say as people hear what they want to hear.  I can confirm it's a fabulous LP and a personal go to when I want to hear great sound from my turntable.  No need to break the bank.  $37 on Amazon.  Don't love it, send it back. Cheers.

The “sound of” vinyl or digital is entirely dependent on the equipment you use to reproduce the sound. I chose my equipment to sound natural and musical. Both sound virtually identical on the same mastering and recording. There is some variance around the pressing number for the master as vinyl masters (I forgot the correct name for the mold copy). wear out. So I find there is some variance sometimes the digital will sound a tiny bit better, sometimes the same. You could put together a system were vinyl sounds beter or that digital sounds better. You can see my systems under my userID.

I have several audiophile copies of Kind of Blue. The streaming version sounds the same and only costs $14.99 a month and includes half a million other high resolution albums and ten million red book CD quality albums. Much more cost effective than CDs. So, you have another step to lower your music cost and increase your library size.

@ghdprentice 

+1 (emphasis added ) Nailed it …point, set, and match in tennis jargon….. full stop.
 

There is no vinyl superiority over digital high resolution and properly mastered files played on a quality-build 2-channel system with worthy hi-rez resolution capabilities 

The investigation is quite Simple, the Master Tape being Demo’d in the Link is available to Purchase along with The Vinyl Pressing and CD, maybe even a Streamed Data in now to be found.

It’s Jazz as well, I own both Vinyl and CD, and have loaned both out within my local HiFi Group. The Feedback is more about the uniqueness of the Recording through Bernie Grundman’s skills being presented through the recording.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrkPDJBpxNnPJwy_BR3Bwx.;_ylu=Y29sbwMEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Nj?p=ana+almighty+jerome+sabbagh+Master+Tape&type=f2%3A%3B.6850610d4680680b2811f3dcdca6be379af%3B5.ac485699f167851185abd8a8e3b01611ec4ceacc0ec960448b74805219ec715ff444172e085fa8ab2404f80e999&param2=9dUI1n2R0BLDxNuWfiP4aSFOTltNdSPoIx38%2BUf%2FiXrvPdoGmStdlfwLFZYDvqkAJrWWk4yNReCLnBD%2FqPsDZd7olTZcV8HMx1G%2Fk786sE2Tis1g8dJd8zxVWs%2BbKztBnq1TfqUiqPYK9pXifXmJFyorDuCsYXJE71Y6G5tfejCxpoCykrpr%2Bip1lmlJtAJYta33plD7Ojd%2F0z61TGnr81MmzONfEoPpal%2BPaFZWpflZqdWhul7znZh4gRvSUxY9oOp2X7oCyY%2B3hyS2ZMvXy%2FuTzFi3jyZJjNeNjWBaZ%2FX0%2FCqsoAm9Mff%2BvaAb8ypy&param3=HpCyCT2cXaKG4CVDR00rqlSr3FoJYZnmiwl1hIhP7ORcwvK%2F0U7mr7TFNI3FZ%2BsstOw0E4UV0S8uoWdOkC9Hi6b2HYVaXlTG%2BXtkY7bl83%2B2D7XyB1I4uVr8H7TwkM516P3q0iwPFSqLvYl2QKacMiBD2cyBQF62cXj%2FO4uL27%2BdntazOCk00gu%2BUq4UY0wul5d7YM%2FCVyutsOh1MkObWXrsqOC8HH0U4tiTnhDIE3HlAUtWg%2BY2i5X8aB6OouQqLRtWMClGQ15ah6ImwrXwq1V%2Ft9TOy%2BMBCrOXe1mFBKsbJi2dpURgRHvgS7hfHHp5&hsimp=yhs-syn_scoop&hspart=iba&ei=UTF-8&fr=yhs-iba-syn_scoop#id=27&vid=926a1413a11e92f35bc71967d06c54b3&action=view

well that used to be the case but not anymore not with the DACs that have come out in the last few years, check out the Wyred4sound 10th anniversary DAC, one of the reviewers put it up against his VPI turntable with a $5,000 Japanese cartridge on it and he said that the 10th anniversary DAC was every bit as an analog sounding, on that review I bought it and I totally agree this DAC is very warm sounding but yet detailed but not analytical and they also give you a 30-day trial. I obviously didn't return it, it's the best DAC I've had in my system and it has gone up against DACs 2 to 3 times the price and it's beat them.

People here are putting out wrong info. Whether vinyl sounds better than digital, is related to the mastering of both. If the vinyl is mastered very well but the digital not so much, the vinyl will sound better on a good system no matter how good your dac is. Vice versa applies as well

All things being equal I prefer the sound of vinyl. I have a pretty good digital system, probably better than my vinyl system, but I just like the vinyl sound better. Maybe that’s just my ears or maybe that’s what I grew up with 

I stream more than I play vinyl because it is so convenient and the sound difference is not huge. In any event, it’s impossible for someone to definitively say what will sound better to another person.. It’s entirely subjective, and your experience may be different than mine. You have to listen for yourself and everyone’s ears are different. Some may not perceive a different sound, but that doesn’t mean it’s true for everybody.
Isn’t that what we tell Amir all the time?

I like the MMW albums. Not expensive. The Jordan Hamilton is really good too. Project Freedom shines both streaming and vinyl. When the mood is right, nothing beats vinyl for me. Mindfulness or something. Shuteen Erdenebaatar’s album Rising Sun was streaming well before it was pressed. I did preorder. It’s gotta have 15 spins by now. I listen to jazz better on vinyl, even if it’s a budget unit. I hope that helps. 

Almost anything by the Esbjorn Svenson Trio, particularly the live albums  

Thanks to everybody who has responded so far.

I would have liked to have had more space in the title to make it clear that I am not really looking for opinions on equipment, just for one or more jazz records capable of sounding excellent on vinyl.

I hope to make my own mind up later on the question of digital or vinyl after listening!

It is really interesting to me that some vinyl versions of "Kind of Blue" had some tracks recorded at the wrong speed - apparently fixed on the CD I bought and the A$145 original master recording vinyl (which seems to have been remastered on to DSD-64 before becoming "original" again.

Please keep those suggestions coming ...

@ghdprentice The device that presses the vinyl record is called a stamper. It was not atypical for some firms to use the stampers too long. This was particularly the case with high sales volume records. That’s one advantage of some of today’s reissues for which only a limited number of copies are pressed. 
 

As to the question of which sounds better vinyl or digital, I agree with those who’ve noted that it depends on the mastering or remastering. My remastered and limited run pressing of Kind of Blue sounds better to me than the digital file on Qobuz, my cd or my original vinyl. But my experience shows no clear answer. 

Because Columbia was a big label, a lot of their records are out there making them cheaper to acquire a first run pressing.  Whatever the reason, perhaps degradation of the master tape, some of the great Columbia first issues are better sounding than digital reissues.  Ellington’s “Blues in Orbit” and Brubeck’sTake Five” comes to mind.  I like my records more than the digital reissues I’ve heard.  This DOES NOT demonstrate any inherent superiority of one medium over another, this is just some incidents where analogue examples sound better.  

I have a lot of jazz vinyl and IMO the best sounding recordings are all in the studio. But the best performances are all live, which tend to generally not be great recordings. My personal favs are piano, guitar and big band. Not a huge fan on New Orleans style.

So its a bit of a two-edged sword. Having said that, my list is below:

- Boss Brass - Direct to Disc on Umbrella label - wow for the music and sound - big band jazz

- Harry James - D2D on the Sheffield Lab label - big band  - I think he did 2,3 albums

- Miles - Prestige Box set - from the late 1950s and early 1960's - before KoB - 45rpm by Analogue Productions - wow

- Bill Evans - Riverside Box set - AP again - AP IMHO does the best remastering and pressing of jazz recordings - Evans also has some live recordings that are great performances - sound is pretty good on them.

- Jazz at the Pawnshop - the original pressing or a new one on 2XHDNS vinyl

- Joe Sample - Ashes to Ashes and Spellbound; he had the best of the best players and engineers on these two and it shows in the sound.

- Oscar Peterson - Strictly for my friends - box set

- Grant Green - AP re-press and re-master - guitar

- Sonny Clark - AP re-press and re-master - piano

- Lyn Stanley - female vocal - new arrangements of standards from the 1950's that Sinatra did; She has the best of the best studio musicians and engineers. Great sound and performances if you like her style.

- Getz-Gilberto - Girl from Ipanema - 45rpm by AP. Another version just came out - I think on Impex label, but not sure. One of my GOAT albums for sure.

Hope this helps out. And enjoy the journey. I sure am.

Richardbrand, With all due respect, you asked a very bad, very open-ended question with many ambiguous edges (the question pre-supposes that analog is in fact superior to digital and that there is or could ever be such a thing as a recording that could possibly prove such a tenuous proposition to all listeners), and yet some have tried to respond.  Amazing. No doubt this thread will live on for yet a few more weeks.

Kind of Blue is not and never was revered because it was a great recording per se.  It is revered because it was revolutionary in terms of musical structure in 1958 and probably because of Miles Davis' mystique and that of the other members of his group (Coltrane and Evans in particular). Technically, it was famously off-speed and originally in mono.

Traditional jazz hard to hear or understand when first listening to for most people. I do purchased Kind of Blue as my first traditional jazz album. It took me quite sometime to hear it properly. One day it clicked into place and it blew me away. 

I would suggest you purchase Sypro Gyra “Morning Dance”. It was my first non traditional jazz album back in the 80s and I still have and listen to it. 
 

Recommendations for a jazz record which demonstrates vinyl superiority over digital

Not possible because you'd need apples to apples to compare:

1. an analog system equivalent to a digital system
2. an analog (vinyl) recording equivalent to the digital recording
3. Cartridges sound different
4. DACs sound different

I'll spare you the hardware mumbo jumbo that you're not looking for. 

Here is an excellent recording that's very live sounding and has lots of dynamic range. 

Thelma Houston & Pressure Cooker: "I've got the music in me" Direct to disk LP

A sample cut

+1 @ghdprentice Eloquent and accurate as always.  I would only add that I find some very early digital masters suffer compared to vinyl.  To generalize, I find these are often albums where the original analog master was not well engineered and the problems exacerbated by early digital mastering techniques.  As you do, I find streaming recent  “digital remasters”  equivalent, if not better IMHO than vinyl.  Both vinyl and digital show differences in SQ between remasters, reflecting the recording engineers intent during remastering.  Streaming gives you the ability to explore all of the remasters published on the service and choose the one you most prefer with no monetary investment other than the service charge as your point out.  Most times these differences are subtle, but sometimes not.  Sometimes I even find the original low-resolution digital remaster better than the HD remaster.   It depends upon the recording engineer’s intent and your personal preference.

As mentioned above, the direct to disc recordings by Sheffield Records, like Harry James’ “king James Version” 

M&K direct to disc—Bill Berry Allstars “For Duke” (covers of Duke Ellington); Earl Hines—“Fatha”

Clark Terry “Alternate Blues” 

Rahib Abou Kahlil—“Blue Camel”

Three Blind Mice (great Japanese label)—Yamamoto Trio “Midnight Sugar”

Sonny Rollins “Saxophone Colossus” (fantastic sounding mono recording); Rollins “Way Out West” (fantastic stereo recoding).

East Winds Records (another great Japanese label)—Great American Jazz Trio “Direct from LA”
 

Billions of Individuals listen to Music, of which the sound is either produced as a Live Sound through either Acoustic Instruments producing Sound, Instruments reliant on Electronics to produce Sound, or a Music heard as a sound as a result of a Musical Recording being replayed through a system that is using Electronics to produce the heard sound.

The Medium or the Source Method to hear produced sound, does not matter anymore, simply because the access to music is now a total convenience, anybody can experience a sound being produced, which will be classed as music almost anywhere on the planet, where ever communication can be created, it is most likely music is able to be heard.

The convenience of being able to easily experience the sound from produced music has created a exponential increase to for the amount of individuals who enjoy listening to music.

The average individual who listens to music, is listening to music for more hours during a week, than the average hours being listened to music by an individual who classes themselves as an Enthusiast of Music being replayed on purpose produced Audio Equipment or the other much Broader used Term for such an Individual being an Audiophile.

In the present world, there are currently a Vast Amount of Individuals who are part of this Movement, who are carrying with them a Broad Reasoning for having readily available access to recorded music, who collectively could be referred to as the:

                             "Nouveau Audio Passionne"

It is also not really worthwhile dismissing them as being non-Audiophile.

An investigation of the Market Place will speedily show, there is options to make substantial investments into Electronic Devices that will enable the highest levels of replays using the replay ancillaries available that support the needs of this new Movement of Listeners of recorded music.

Take Heed - Forums are Dead in the Water, if this new Community of Listeners is not welcomed with a very noticeable Greeting.

Analogue - Digital - Mater Tape - Vinyl LP - CD are just 'Trivea' in todays world and is of no importance.

The New Movement keeping the Music Industry in very fine fettle. Are as an assessment made, from experiences had of being in discussion with known individuals who participate.  Are Individuals who when being exposed to a squabble over such concerns of a Source Type, are when encountering such a presentation looking at such presentations as being a waste of effort and the content as being 'just noise', that is best avoided. Such a discussion has very little to do with their requirements to experience recorded music being replayed.

More Importantly their is not one individual who's only access to recorded music,  is through listening to recorded music, that has a control over the quality of the recordings being used. One pays their monies and gets what is given as the product from the chosen Brand. The same stands for Streamed Data, one chooses their supplier and service and what arrives to be listened to is what arrives.   

For the   "Nouveau Audio Passionne" , what really matters is how successful the portable audio system performs, whilst on a Journey or at a point of Stop Off.

In a City have a look at the Average Pedestrian, pedestrian Jogger, or Cyclist. There is the likely hood that at least 1 in 20 being passed by, has invested more in their Portable Audio System than a more regular Audiophile is willing to spend on a Audio Device or even an entire Audio System. 

The following is a Modern Description of how recorded Music is being listened to:              

• • 86% of people listen to music while working.
• • 28% of adults say they listen to music to improve their mood.
• • The average American listens to over 32 hours of music per week.
• • Music streaming accounted for 85% of all music consumption in 2019.
• • 59% of people listen to music to relax.
• • The global music streaming market was worth $20.9 billion in 2020.
• • 64% of people say they listen to music to create a specific atmosphere.
• • Listening to music has been shown to reduce stress and anxiety levels by 65%.
• • 83% of teenagers listen to music every day.
• • 73% of runners say they listen to music while exercising.
• • Music has been found to increase productivity by 88%.
• • 42% of people listen to music to feel more energized.
• • The average person listens to 18 hours of music per week.
• • 68% of people listen to music to reminisce about the past.
• • 56% of people say they listen to music to block out distractions.

With 86% of people tuning in while working, 28% using it to boost their mood, and the average American grooving to over 32 hours of music weekly, its clear that music is not just background noise but a powerful force that shapes our lives. From chilling out to pumping up the jam, music streaming reigning supreme in 2019 to a global market worth billions in 2020, the numbers don't lie – music is the ultimate multitasker, soothing stress, sparking nostalgia, and even boosting productivity and memory. So grab your headphones and lets dive into the symphony of statistics that prove music isn't just music – its magic!

Again, I agree with the point that you could construct a system that would make one or the other medium sound best. My streaming set up is pretty good, my vinyl set up is better. I enjoy both, and I am grateful for that, as I have access to way more  good-sounding music than I could have dreamed of when I was flipping through the stacks as a younger person.

Recently, I heard Ambrose Akinmusire's  "Owl Song" on Qobuz. I loved the music (truly just filled me up), and thought it sounded great. Because I know my system, I thought it would be likely that it would sound even better on vinyl, so I picked it up. To my ears, in my room, on my equipment, it really does sound better on vinyl. 

But after decades of a vinyl-first mindset, and using a greater share of my budget on vinyl gear than on digital gear, I think that is to be expected. Like i said, I fell in love hearing the album streaming. I listen to it now on vinyl. That is often my work flow - some experiences I just leave in the digital realm, but sometimes I think that it would sound even better in my turntable. 

We are living in good times, music-wise...

You might not have asked about gear, but you can't make blanket statements like 'vinyl sounds better than digital' or 'digital sounds better than vinyl' without taking into account gear, room, listener's hearing and preferences, etc etc. 

Wanna hear great sounding vinyl source? Go to Acoustic Sounds website (as one example) and check out some of their jazz titles; they've got a great many of them...

This week I bought an album on the ACT label - whose recordings are superbly engineered. Call this one A.  Listening to it, I felt the sound quality was not as good as the previous album on ACT that I listened to - call this one B. Different artists but both female vocals / small ensemble. When I checked the release date on A it was 2017. In both cases I was listening to CD. Likely cause - better adc/dac's for the recording.

Vinyl / CD comparisons are futile because both technologies are different and both are continuing to evolve. Though I would argue that they are are converging in terms of sound quality - which is what happens when you reduce distortion and noise.

If an album was mastered in 16/44, which almost all are, it never sounds better upsampled to 24/96. Listening to 24/96 and higher is a waste. 

Vinylshadow, that hasn’t been my experience. In general I have found that sampling is a good thing. Also, you leave out SACD. I find that music recorded as SACD and played back as such is far superior to RBCD; whereas older recordings reproduced on SACD are not noticeably superior to the original RBCD. I really cannot enjoy RBCD except as background when I don’t feel like playing LPs, for reading a book or at parties. I don’t care how good or expensive the RBCD player is reputed to be.

@jsalerno277 …” I would only add that I find some very early digital masters suffer compared to vinyl.”

Yes! Wow, there are some really horrible recordings as studios converted over to digital. I actually have a couple of Deutsch Gramophone albums that are simply horrible. They sound like tin. For a company in the 6070s and 80s that produce such great recordings, I can’t believe they even released some of these.

In my above post, the sentence "In general I have found that sampling is a good thing." contains a typo.  Should have written or meant to write "upsampling" is a good thing.

@ghdprentice Yes. When I put that that thought to type I was specifically thinking early DG digital remasters of some of the great performances they recorded in analog that, in analog suffered from shrill shrill strings and sibilance, exacerbated to the unlistenable in their poor digital remasters.  In general, DG has consistently archived some of the best performances but was inconsistent in engineering the best SQ.  Some recordings have phenomenal SQ.  Some suffer in both analog and digital with “DG shrill and sibilance”.   When they get both the performance and engineering right,  it’s pure bliss.  When not, the DG love affair is over.  

@lewm "With all due respect, you asked a very bad, very open-ended question with many ambiguous edges (the question pre-supposes that analog is in fact superior to digital and that there is or could ever be such a thing as a recording that could possibly prove such a tenuous proposition to all listeners), and yet some have tried to respond.  Amazing. No doubt this thread will live on for yet a few more weeks"

My question was deliberately open, because I am looking for real guidance on what jazz record(s) to buy.  Unfortunately, my topic title had to be truncated so it read as if there might be an absolute truth!

My sincere thanks to those who have taken the trouble to list excellent jazz recordings, especially when they have provided a link!  I don't know much about jazz - most of what I listen to is large-scale classical which almost by definition often has huge dynamic range.  Jazz should be easier for vinyl.

Based on the responses so far, the consensus would seem to be that vinyl has no over-whelming, intrinsic advantage these days, despite what many dealers / magazines say.

‘Time out” Dave Brubeck
”Clique” Patrica Barber

”Plays Monk” Esbjorn Svenssin Trio

I resolved this question by buying the same, high quality recording in both formats.

The Doctor (Doc Powel) on VTL.

ON MY SYSTEM (see listing), the vinyl is better than the CD.  Both were excellent (thanks VTL!), yet repetitive listening confirmed  that the LP was smoother, and slightly more realistic.  

This is one datapoint, but it worked very well.

There are some who have superb vinyl systems that blow away most digital systems.

There are some who have superb digital systems that blow away most vinyl systems.

Vinyl can discourage those with five thumbs and a personal daily relationship with Murphy.

Without getting into a format debate, I'll say that digital has come a long way. And the cost of vinyl involves a lot of variables, leaving aside the records--

I buy older pressings- most stuff is overpriced now, and the grading is inflated. 

If I were starting out today, I'm not sure I'd dive into vinyl. But, I have a penchant for small and private label stuff. Good luck finding it today unless you have connections and a large stack of cash. 

Dear @richardbrand   : " the consensus would seem to be that vinyl has no over-whelming, intrinsic advantage these days, despite what many dealers / magazines say.. "

Correct and not only that but has several disadvantages vs digital and this came from the last 5-10 years ( everything the same.).

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

There’s no way to predict the excellence of a particular LP, in terms of sound quality. There is always an element of serendipity. But for jazz, ECM, Pablo, Bethlehem, Riverside, Contemporary, then Columbia, are pretty reliable. Perhaps best ever were Reference Recordings. I don’t like Sheffield because the artists they recorded were in general second rate, with apologies to Harry James. Case in point for serendipity, last night I picked out an LP from one of my less used storage bins: Art Pepper, “Among Friends” on the Trio label. I played it because I love Art Pepper and was curious because it was recorded in 1978 in stereo, near his death. I can only say buy it if you can find it, dead silent surface with in your face reality. I could easily imagine myself in the room. But who knew?

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2023-tas-super-lp-list/

@lewm- do you have a copy of Art Pepper Today? It has a rendition of Patricia with Cecil McBee on bass, Stanley Cowell on piano and Roy Haynes on drums.

Although Pepper released 3 versions of Patricia, that album's version is stunning- (I got to it partly because I'm a big fan of McBee, who played on a lot of spiritual jazz albums). The Japanese pressing is gorgeous. 

Pretty straight ahead for McBee but great track, great performances by all. 

Not sure if I have “Today” LP. I’ll have to check. I also have high regard for Cecil McBee. Until the other night, I didn’t know I had “Among Friends” on Trio hidden in a low shelf in a cabinet I don’t often search. There may be more unplayed gems in that space. Do you suppose Trio is related to Kenwood? Trio is the name of the company in Japan.

@lewm- yes, according to Discogs, Kenwood was the parent company. What's interesting to me is that the eq on rock/pop from Japan often sounds more "tweaked" than on small combo jazz records. And of course, there were some beautifully made LPs that came out of Japan. 

So perhaps that explains the special-ness of Among Friends, in that Trio were showing off their capabilities. I have a Denon branded jazz LP that is also superb sonically. Pepper died in bad shape in 1982, but in 1978 he still had all his chops, as evidenced by his work on this LP. Session photos show his aging, however, compared to his earlier Contemporary album photos.

@kennyc Thanks for the link to TAS' list.  I am glad the recording I always use for speaker assessment is on it, albeit using its highbrow title!  Decca’s 1969 recording of Benjamin Britten conducting his “Young Person’s Guide to the Orchestra”. aka "Variations and Fugue on a Theme of Purcell". Mind you I use the CD or streaming ;-)

You thank me now, but your wallet may say otherwise. For high sonic quality vinyl “for a price” check out:

• Better Records
• Reference Recordings

I have a modest stereo hifi (under 15k) using Harbeth P3esr speakers. I have a reasonably treated room with controlled reflections. I listen to mostly classical and jazz at reasonable volumes.

Digital music sounds great. I suspect the mastering of the specific media makes the biggest difference. I have multiple digital sources that I run through the same preamp > speakers, and it's obvious some are better than others. I have learned to identify publishers who take care in the mastering process, and tend to choose those sources.

Analog music sounds great. Mastering (and the quality of the pressing) makes the biggest difference.  All of my vinyl (well, most of it anyway) sounds good; some of it sounds fantastic. I can play around with different cartridges and get different presentations (I use a Technics 1200 GR with a removable head). It is deeply satisfying to change carts and enjoy the differences (differences is the operative word, not "better").

In my system, at least, I prefer vinyl for immersive listening, and digital for convenience. At the risk of sounding absurd, there is a "presence" in the vinyl presentation that I find compelling (like the music just jumps out of the speakers). My guess is that it is due to distortion coming from the vinyl processing. I dunno. Might be all in my head!

For starters, I'd suggest most of the Rudy Van Gelder-engineered Blue Note albums. My personal favorite is Herbie Hancock's "Maiden Voyage." The Miles Davis albums on Columbia sound very rich and dynamic. "Sorcerer" is a personal favorite, and Wynton Marsalis's "Black Codes (from the Underground)", mixed at Columbia's 52nd Street "Monolith" studio in NYC, is a fantastic vinyl reference. It won two Grammys.