@jfrmusic "Just finished burning in my IceAge Frankencable power cord" power cables don’t have much aging effect, unlike tubes, some heavily used semicons, electrolytic caps, and hard driven resistors. there is some change in contact resistance, once contacting parts increase contacting area.. cable itself worsens performance due to resistance increase overtime, but that is very slow process..
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@zlone yes you did - thanks. And glad you were able to improve your sound by making adjustments. |
@knownothing Good point. When I stated that we don't know how they could affect a purely digital component I was conceding I have yet to hear, in the case of a streamer, how they might affect the sound. Especially in the case where a USB connection is used to the DAC and the clocking is handled by the DAC. I did not address the more general case of properly shielded cords not affecting the components around them. I agree that this could be a primary improvement with an aftermarket cord vs the stock cord. I am currently selling off some old cables and came across an inexpensive, unshielded 10 AWG power cable I bought last year on a whim. I swapped it in on my power amp, which was using an Acoustic Zen El Nino. After a day I remembered why I pulled it out, a very fine grain was added to all the sound, fatigue in a previously fatigue-less system. Does it need break in, maybe, but I won't sit through that to find out. FWIW, I am a believer that it all matters and it is very likely that a good cord does affect the performance of a dedicated streamer. Motivated by this conversation, I moved a Wireworld Silver Electra 7 cable from my preamp to my streamer, which is where the seller recommended I put it in the first place, and moved the Acoustic Zen El Nino from the streamer to the preamp. The sound changed for sure, and for the better, which cord where made the difference? Did I answer your question?
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@zlone for clarity, is your statement below related to the direct effect of power cables on the digital and analog gear they are attached to, or the effects of power cables attached to digital gear affecting the performance of other gear in the same rack? ”But at least we agreed earlier that a power cord can make a difference where analog is involved, so they can make a difference. However for pure digital, without any idea how a power cord could affect it, but know they can have an affect on other components, I think we have to look at empirical evidence.” My suggestion is that regardless of any impact after market power cables have or don’t have directly on a server/streamer, such devices are commonly (usually?) used in proximity and connected to other devices in your system and connected to the same power source, all of which could be affected by the digital device or the properties of the directly attached power cable. The idea being the better that low level digital and analog signals and high level power cables isolate from each other, the better. Therefore, cables have both a device specific and system level function that are difficult to tease apparent in practice because it requires listening to everything hooked up and playing together in your rack and room and with your power source from the wall. Whether or not you hear a noticeable difference is the important test for whether the cost and hassle of optimizing power or any other cable is worth it. FWIW on a related note, I modified my Bluesound Node by replacing the internal switching power supply with an external supply from Teddy Pardo and I am as certain as I can be that this improved the sound of digital playback from an attached SSD in my system. Can’t explain whether this is a component or system related effect. YMMV. kn
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I noted in my results that I tried it on the Accuphase amplifier. It was not better than the stock cable. Accuphase strongly recommends that you use the supplied cable. This is the second alternative cable I’ve tried and in both cases the Accuphase supplied cable was better. So for now I’m sticking with the Accuphase cable. |
@jfrmusic good deal! I recommend you try one of these on the amp despite the Accuphase claim. I haven’t yet come across an amplifier that didn’t benefit from a good power cord. |
Just finished burning in my IceAge Frankencable power cord with a little over 50 hours. Results On my Aurender N20 it significantly improves the overall sound and presentation of my system. Smooths out the highs making them even more refined but the biggest improvement was soundstage in both width and depth. An excellent result. My MSB DAC has two power supplies. One for the digital conversion and one for the analog output. There was a similar improvement when the cable was connected to the digital power supply and a less noticeable improvement on the analog supply but still an improvement. On my Accuphase P-4600 amplifier there was no improvement in fact it slightly compressed the image. As I may have mentioned Accuphase strongly recommends that you use the supplied cable only. So I have not found a cable that is more compatible. So the Frankencable is on the Streamer and I ordered two more for the DAC. |
@zlone - Agreed about analog. "Experts" at company that sells you things? Mmmmm - no :-) Proper statement is here - and this is actually really good network switch etc. BUT as actual DAC engineer from Denafrips says - you don't need one.
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I am a technical person, and I agree, I cannot think of how a power cord would affect the digital output stream from a dedicated streamer. But at least we agreed earlier that a power cord can make a difference where analog is involved, so they can make a difference. However for pure digital, without any idea how a power cord could affect it, but know they can have an affect on other components, I think we have to look at empirical evidence. I started thinking about my Innuos Zenith streamer, and its predecessor an Aurender N10. Both products touted their power supplies. I pulled up the Innuos page for the Innuos Zenith, the very first sentence reads: "Pushing our popular ZENith even further, the advanced MK3 includes a Triple-Linear PSU with Mundorf CAPS and custom-treated SSD. Ideal for audiophiles who want a smoother, more relaxed sound with a wider soundstage" So the experts at Innuos say that clean power matters. And if clean power matters, then it seems that a power cord could affect the performance of a streamer, even though it is just twiddling bits. Do we know how or why, nope. But empirically the evidence inherent in the design of the Innuos gear and other streamers, and the educated opinions of experts in this forum, seem to say that it matters. Logically a power cord cannot make a difference in this case, but the empirical evidence says otherwise.
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@knownothing - correct. However, the topic is about purely digital system such as streamer without DAC, or a LAN cable “filtering” device. You have network cables running on top of your tube amp? Sure, shielding might help. Power cable for a network switch or a pure digital streamer? Well, its your money. |
@mikhailark what is the point of using servers without analog components somewhere in the chain and nearby? OK, powered speakers with wifi maybe. For more traditional systems, there will be analog gear in close proximity to the server (and DAC). Just saying, servers rarely exist in a digital vacuum, and cables and other potentially noisy boxes are in the neighborhood. |
I’ve used Acoustic Zen, Nordost, and Morrow power cables on my components. All three improved the sound noticeably on my Cambridge Audio 851n streamer/DAC and my Oppo 83 which I use for SACD. A more subtle improvement on my Bel Canto PRE5 preamp, and no difference to speak of on my Bel Canto 500M monoblocks. In the end I kept the Morrow MAP3s and sold the others. They may have sounded very very slightly better than the Morrows, but the Morrows are so much easier to snake through my cabinet. My theory is that less sophisticated power supplies in components react more to upgraded power chords. |
@ghdprentice great, so what is your theory. Cables at data centers are pretty standard, as you know. So what 6ft of expensive cable would change in the rack operation. |
@knownothing - when analog is involved - sure. DAC, for example. When it is is pure network device - nope. Or else somehow Word files would arrive modified over the Net. |
@zlone thanks. Any insights I might have are hard won. The good part is that the “winning” always involved listen to music:-) |
@knownothing Knows something. Excellent comments. |
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@trivema I own a few Blue Jeans cables and am currently using a long run of their HDMI wire from my AVR to my 4K TV with good results. I have actually visited their shop and you are correct that their cables are “good stuff” and unlikely to fail. While BJ cables are not the last word in audio performance, getting to a noticeable better level of performance can seem like a trip to wonderland. kn |
@mikhailark my rudimentary understanding is that better power cables can help improve sound from digital equipment in several ways. One is reducing resistance from the outlet to the IEC inlet, supplying current as needed, why OCC copper wire can sound different from OFC, and silver power cables and connectors can sound very different. Another is keeping noise out of the power supply cable from surrounding cables, power supplies and processors. The last is keeping noise that might be generated in the digital device from interacting with other devices or cables, especially low level signal cables, along the length of the power supply cable in a system setup. In even simple systems (by network standards), the performance of a power or signal cable is not just about the relationship of that piece of gear to the wall or the connected box, it is about the sum of interactions between power, digital and analog cables and whatever is going on in and around all the boxes they connect. Computer networking logic does not necessarily apply in a consumer hifi setup because while significantly more complex in terms of components, none of the signals are critically important low or high level analog signals that degrade the moment they leave the electronics where they are generated or amplified. Hifi cabling is a system that can be optimized to achieve lower noise and more enjoyment. But each cable application must be seen as a part of an overall system design. Because there is no standardization from one hifi system to the next in the quality of the wall power, the performance envelope and isolation inherent in the individual boxes and wires used, and how closely the boxes and wires are arrayed in space, the only real way to optimize the cable system is through trial, error and success. In my experience, this includes experimentation with power cables on the “computers” in your rack. YMMV. kn |
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Oops. Me thinks someone finally just barked up the wrong tree of a fellow IT guy who actually knows what he’s talking about when it comes to digital audio. 🍿🍿🍿 |
@ghdprentice may I suggest you study network protocols and operating systems? So tell me, how does performance of your computer changes when you upgrade its power cable. I’d love to hear. Still waiting for an explanation what is exactly a "built to purpose" streaming ARM box. What is custom there as opposed to a just a "computer". |
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@sealegs - interesting, my Terminator came with a power cord... |
@soix - of course dealers use what they want to sell you. Streamer is an ARM Linux box. I'd be happy to learn what is there "built to the purpose". Power supply? RAM? SSD? Fans? USB circuitry? Special network software stack? I am eager to study how power cable would affect execution of my compiled code. Please elaborate. |
jfrmusic Congrats on the Frankencable purchase, please do let us know how you like it. For others looking for reasonably priced cables, here are a few reasonably priced cables I've tried and own and can recommend: Anti-Cables Level 3 8awg ($330 for 5' cable), Zavfino Majestic MKII OCC 12awg ($450 for 5' cable - amp/preamp), Zavfino Fina OCC 14awg ($345 for 5' cable - signal components) I can HIGHLY recommend using Japanese Furutech Triple-C (TCS21 14awg or TCS31 12awg), Furutech Nano-AU/AG (S022N 14awg or S032N 12awg or S055 10awg), Oyaide Tunami PCOCC 10awg, Neotech UP-OCC (NEP 3001 10awg or NEP 3002 11awg or NEP 3003 13awg), or Acoustic Revive 8800 OCC 13awg.....these can be purchased pre-built, or DIYed for about 50% less cost |
Anticipating that I would upgrade my Krell Studio DAC to a Denafrips (which doesn’t come with a power cord), I decided to buy the power cord first. That way I could break it in before the upgrade and my DAC comparisons would be apples-to-apples. I saw a review of some power cables from Passion For Sound on YouTube. The SUPRA LoRad 3x2.5 Power Cables (eBay) were about $100 for 1.5 m. I wasn’t prepared for how much improvement they made to my digital playback. I tried the cable on my Rowland preamp and again was quite taken back at the improvement (I bought another of the same power cable). I’ve owned that Krell DAC for 30 years and for the first time, I actually like my CD collection. I decided to keep the Krell. I just now checked eBay and those power cables are even less expensive now than when I bought them. They are the most cost-effective upgrades I’ve ever made to my system |
Comparing a multipurpose computer to a dedicated audio streamer is like comparing a Porsche to a Toyota Corolla — they’re both built to get you from A to B but do it very differently given their design and purpose, and that matters a lot. Everything in audio matters, including power cables on streamers. Go to any audio show or high-end dealer and none of them — none — use a stock power cable on their streamers. |
Ha, that's funny, and true. I have a VooDoo infinity 20amp feeding my T+A , and it looks nasty! But it DID open up the amp a lot compared to the stock cord. Too heavy for the average DAC though! |
I have had Pine Tree Audio cables throughout my system. Silver coated copper or all OCC copper. Nice workmanship and a nice guy. Neutral and detailed for interconnects. Then I thought, what the heck for $200 I got some speaker wires, silver coated copper with locking 45° Rhodium coated banana plugs. This really made my system sound better. I had spades which I could not keep tight. I really liked listening to the silver coated copper interconnects. These are all Chinese but the workmanship is good . While I listened to this set, I sent my Pine Tree Audio Ribbon speaker wires to have the same Rhodium connectors installed. The silver sounded good. Then I got the ribbons back. After about a week, they made my system sound accurate, detailed, wonderful voices, bass a little more power and tight. The ribbons are staying and I still have all the silver coated interconnect and coax. Power cords are all Pine Tree. My system is really quiet. |
I haven't seen this recommended yet so I'll weigh in: Ice Age Audio (iceageaudio.com). I just purchased their "FrankenCable" power cords, along with their OFC speaker cables and interconnects. Because I replace all three at the same time, I can't attribute the difference I'm hearing solely to the power cords, but I was blown away at the difference in what I heard. Much better sound stage, and the clarity and detail in the music was mind blowing. After installing them, I started listening to some music to see if I could hear a difference, and ended up listening for hours. It was like hearing things for the first time. The best part is that, compared to many other brands, they are MUCH less expensive. I can't say enough good things about them (and I also have to admit, I used to be part of the "can wires really make that much of a difference" school of thought). I'm listening to music on an EverSolo DMP-A8 > Parasound A51 > Usher Dancer Mini-2 Diamonds. |
what’s the rest of your system? Audioquest NRG4 power cables have been as much as 60% off lately and I bought a couple “Open Box” to try and so far they sound good. They were like $140 each. Another power cable I’ve been using is the Audience F3. They are half price all over, like $150 a piece. All the best. |
