Please recommend speakers

@tsushima1 

Little ol me wearing another Breguet my 1475 … you may find it on The Watch Sub section of a HiFi forum far across the great water …

I can see why you don't wear watches with metal links. I feel your pain too, bro 😁

“ I can see why you don't wear watches with metal links. I feel your pain too, bro”

Indeed 😃 Akin to self Flagellum With my  Rolex,  Grand Seiko’s etc 

@expresstrain

I have a feeling I will end up getting stands also, but it’s a process...

Seems like your requirements are a moving target. If you are entertaining the idea of stands, then a floorstander is best sonically to get significantly better bass. You can go subwoofer but that will $cost. Note also that speaker placement is also sonically important as most should be brought away from the walls into the room.

If you prefer nearfield listening at the expense of bass extension and soundstage quality, then maybe bookshelf may be ideal for you.  But if you are trying to maximize sonics……

50wpc @8ohms is on the lower side, so you’ll need a somewhat efficient speaker.

If you like the Klipsch RP-600M, then perhaps going to their related floorstanders RP-4000F, RP-5000F, or RP-6000F (95/96/97dB) may be ideal with more bass.

I agree that Tekton is a high value option but they are rather large than average speakers. You might be able to get into a used GoldenEar Triton Seven or a used Monitor Silver speaker.

MC 

“Look around, the lessons are everywhere. Tekton Moab and other Tekton almost never come up for sale. ”

*Really*

Recently 997

Currently 32 

Recently 997

I know someone who has signet sl260 bookshelf for $350

I think you will be very happy with a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 225’s, still available @ $349 a pair, were $449.

They do everthing right in my book, and sound like speakers twice if not more the price. There are plenty of reviews to read about these speakers, and they won two awards for budget component of the year, from both the Absolute Sound & Stereophile.

Herb Reichert said: "Forget the Diamond's modest price. This humble wooden box is actually a connoisseur-level audio component. It could satisfy any sane music collector for decades."

@audioman58, ...get a Svs 2000 pro sub later $495 with a great app.

I agree with adding a sub but where did you get that deal?  Let me know and I will jump on it.

I tried the LS50 / Meridian 556 combo and found them fatiguing. Considering the OP’s set up restrictions a set of nice headphones might be the best bet.

Listen for yourself, but I’m a big fan of the family of tweeters Polk uses in those monitors. Very extended and smooth.

I like Monitor Audio a lot but the tweets are not as neutral until you get to the PL line.

In that case, I could recommend the Wharfedale EVO 4.1 or 4.2. Add a Schiit Loki Mini EQ to tweak the sound to your liking in the bookcase. Additionally add isolation pads from Herbie’s Audio Lab to minimize vibrations from the bookcases. 
 

I have the EVO 4.1 in a cabinet in my kitchen and they sound quite nice. Surprising bass and the downfiring port removes thuddyness.
 

You’ll have a hard time getting a deep sound stage from the bookcases, but you can certainly get great tonality and enjoyment. Using pink noise and “tuning” your speakers to a flat response to your room with the Loki will help a lot .  I’ve done this in a few different/weird setups - really excellent device. 

@expresstrain,

A couple of reviews on Tekton and one on Klipsch Rp-600M speakers.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/tekton-design-impact-monitor-loudspeaker-measurements

FYI, rear ported speakers usually don't sound as good when placed up against the back wall.   Decades ago, before there were so many high powered amps, speakers were more sensitive.   Nowadays, with few exceptions, most speakers are ported and rather insensitive.  Take a look at the KLH product line.

Definitely no on Tekton and I’m not a fan of Polk either. +1 for Klipsch and Monitor Silver. Have you thought about a used pair of JBL’s? PS. KLH makes some very good speakers too.

Thanks everyone! So here’s the final list in approximate ranked order from most to least likely, though I haven’t entirely decided yet. I need to spend some time browsing the used ads on a regular basis to familiarize myself with what is out there especially the brands with which I am not familiar. Certainly the less risky approach is to go with a brand that is well known and respected, and given my general approach to things, this is likely the path I will take, at least until I learn a lot more about high-end audio. But I also respect what the smaller companies are trying to do and recognize there is potentially great value being offered. I know it’s not easy competing with the big brands with huge marketing budgets. I appreciate all the advice and recs, and the lively debate that has opened my eyes a bit to the world of high-end audio. Without further ado, here’s my final rank list:

1) Klipsch 600M (new) - high efficiency so good match for my 50wpc amp, good for detail, good reputation

2) Monitor Bronze (new) or Monitor Silver (used) - good reputation, detail, appreciate the design

3) Original KEF LS50 (used) - excellent reputation, detail, risk of purchasing used speaker that is several years old

4) Wharfedale Diamond - excellent reputation for value, warm sound will balance the SMSL SU-9 DAC, but will likely be looking at Wharfedale for floorstanders in the future and want to have a contrasting pair of bookshelf speakers for more technical listening

5) Wharfedale EVO 4 - could be the dark horse here, need to look into this some more, curious about the AMT tweeter

I would not worry too much about purchasing used.  I have built two systems that make me very happy purchasing used.   If you can make local purchases, even better.  If not,ask lots of questions,and ask for lots of pictures.  Enjoy your journey! 

There are so many reviews on Youtube, Stereophile and several other sources on the budget bookshelf by experts with good ears.  I think you should do your own homework.

Try from music direct. They allow returns

I would also recommend the Revel and Monitor Audio Silver mentioned above and would add Focal Chora new or Focal Aria second hand.

I've got a pair of JBL STUDIO 570's playing right now with 22 watt antique sound Labs tube integrated and it sounds like a much higher priced speaker....Realism from JBL....Hard to find used but new around $700 pr. Mini- tower   check 'em out.

And no matter what speakers you end up with....They won't be "perfect"....no speaker is.  BUT , you can make it sound "perfect" to your ears with the best investment I've ever made in Hi- Fi....the Schiit audio LOKI mini+ for $149...a must have. I'm running one in a 10K system and it's beautiful to make your speakers sound exactly how you want them to sound without adding the normal EQ. distortion.

+1 @buddyboy1 I’ve used the Loki to help tame some strange rooms. It’s a game changer.

See if you can find any Monitor Audio Silver 100s on closeout. They are priced last I checked at $799.99

I actually picked up a closeout deal for $625+tax, ultimately sent them back because I preferred my Focal 807Ws for upper mids and highs but, the lows and lower mids were really nice and fuller than the Focals.

The Silver 100s are very competent with music and I think even better for home theater. Focals even better for music and good enough for movies for me. A sub would really enhance the Focals. Silvers, you can get away without a sub...unless you like alot of low bass.

If you can’t find the 100s new, maybe used but they won’t be much cheaper. Otherwise look at Focal Focal 807w/806w used, very hard to find.

Lots of good budget deals out there too.  However, the two I mentioned are easy to drive and sound fantastic IMO.  Used options, there are alot of speakers, just research a bit.  Figure out what you like, I prefer a more forward sounding speaker, detail, resolution, stage depth and instrument separation that results in the most natural sound I can get.  Depends on your amp too.  I use a Keces E40 with a Topping D70s resulting in enough warmth and smoothness I like.

Some amps are too bright in the upper registers and too 2D sounding, that's why system matching is also important.

For dacs, I would start looking at Gishelli Labs, Schitt Audio and there's a new review on the EarMen Tradutto you can watch at  iiWi Reviews on youtube. Lots of Chinese options but the three I mentioned are domestic based in the US.

Amps...whole slew of really good amps as well but I really like my little Keces E40 and also have a Hegel.

Hope this helps.

Can still get the Silver 100s new on Amazon through Audio Advisor for $799.95 or check directly from Audio Advisor.  I had black and they are nice. Should retain good value over the years as the new series are $1400.

Dougm5740

"Magnepan LRS, Dayton sub...done"

Done listening, maybe.

LRS and all Maggies are well known to need lots of current... something not provided by a small chip amp. Without good current the Maggies are dull and lifeless.

+1 @mwinkc

Yeah they also won’t fit on a bookshelf, lol  

This is a terrible recommendation considering the OPs stated framework.

if you cannot get towers for your larger room, then here is another vote for KEF LS-50s

Had the mini lore, not bad but I felt the tweeters were lackluster, high end disappointed  me  I'd save up for regular lore or some version of it with better tweeters. JMHO.

I am aware you mentioned bookshelf placement as a requirement and for that I don’t have a perfect recommendation. But I can share my very recent experience trying to find high-sensitivity speakers with a small foot print that would work well with my very low power Decware Zen Triode (2w only) in a substantially smaller room than yours (11x13).

I did purchase the Klipsch RP-600M but placed on stands. While I did enjoy the sound, I was immediately taken aback when doing some AB testing with my other speakers which have a rated sensitivity of 88dB, realizing that Klipsch’s claim of 96dB sensitivity is a total exaggeration. I don’t have the means to do measurements, but it was blatantly obvious that their sensitivity is probably 89-90 dB. They played BARELY louder than my other speakers and I don’t understand how Klipsch is getting away with this, still until this day advertising them as 96dB speakers.

Important for you to consider is the port situation. If you really end up putting your speakers inside a bookshelf, you should pay close attention in your speaker shopping and probably seek front-ported or completely sealed designs over back ported, not one like the Klipsch with it’s huge Tractrix port in the rear. Most speakers will sound better pulled away from the wall regardless of their design, but I think it’s safe to say models that should definitely not be butted against the wall (if you want to utilize their lower frequency output) are designs with a port in the rear.

In my case, I returned the Klipsch and after much online research and consideration of the usual suspects Tekton, Zu, Omen etc, I found a fairly obscure company called NSMT and took a chance buying one of their least expensive, very slim floor standing speakers called The Model 25/Chorus as B-stock for $850 (incl shipping & outrigger feet). For their modest price I am quite happy with them; they are a two-way design with 8” paper woofer and soft dome tweeter and claim to have an extraordinary 98dB sensitivity -  which again I can’t prove or measure, but they clearly perform much better with my little Zen Triode amp than the Klipsch did and image really well and have an amazing form factor for my small room.
https://nsmt-loudspeakers.com/The-Chorus
I do think though that they may not provide you with enough bass, depending what sound you are looking for and the music you listen to.

Another idea, to stay within your $800 budget, would be getting a pair of the “unbelievable for the money” Sony SS-CS5 speakers (beware rear port as well, which you would possibly need to plug if placed inside a shelf) that you can grab for as little as $100 and spend the rest on a nice sub, like a REL T/5x ($680). This may sound like a weird idea, but I own the Sony’s and they are quite spectacular in terms of tone and resolution and paired with a good musical sub, you could probably have a rather impactful “audiophile-ish” room filling sound without any visible large boxes. The advantage of this route is that the REL is top notch and could remain in your system for a long time, even if you eventually upgrade other components. If you enjoy youtube reviews, this one is a fun watch of a couple reviewers comparing and riffing about the Sonys. https://youtu.be/ytsCGxfoKHc?t=84

Leemaze,

Perhaps they might fit, lying flat on the shelf.

Sith Audio makes audiophile knick knacks that can be placed on the speaker, enhancing 3d imaging, if there’s any room left after filling up the space with high-end, snob appeal watches. :)

Like @carlsbad said, all bookshelf have their limitations. Once you

hear floorstanding, its non comparable.  I say for $800 price range, KEF LS50 is a good value on the used market   I've owned LS50, B&W 805, Klipsch RP600, Elac Unifi UB5, Emotiva B1+. Of them all, the Emotiva are my favorite and they cost $250.  My floor standing are B&W 803 and have been great to my ears.  In my second room, the Bose 701 rock.  Screw the specs, let your ears be the judgement.  People bash Bose, but those 701 kill the book shelf speakera any day and they cost me $400 at a garage sale in 1995.  Good luck

The Monitor Audio Bronze is a great starter and a smart choice within your price range. Monitor Audio is a very musical speaker, I love my M.A. PL300II. 

I am not up on current fashions, but the thing that you need to determine before you buy anything is what exactly do you want? I am sure that we could divide listeners into thousands of groups, SS vs tubes, et. al. I simplify it into two camps. Camp one, I call the Vandersteen camp because Vandersteens are pretty ubiquitous, so most get it. Vandersteens are speakers that have crossovers that mellow out the music. Virtually no matter how poorly a source was recorded or mastered, it will usually sound good through Vandersteens. I had a pair of 2CEs I believe, and when I looked at the tweeter circuit I found 3 electrolytic capacitors in series. Electrolytic capacitors are sound sponges, IME. So, I used a .01mf TFT V-Cap to bypass them. The tweeter sounded awful. Some speakers benefit from crossover modifications, some don’t. If your speakers are not heavily detail oriented, I wouldn’t recommend trying to bypass anything.

Often the detail end of the spectrum may be, depending upon associated gear, ear bleedingly bright. This is my spectrum, I ride the edge between very detailed, and bright, so I have to be sure that anything I buy isn’t bright because my speakers will let you know immediately if something bright has been added to the system.

Once you know where you live between these two worlds, then you can try to sort out what’s what. You really can’t take the advice of others unless you understand their listening predilections or your going to buya lot of things that while great to others, is junk from your perspective. The next part is the hardest, save up and buy your final choice. I bought and sold, and I am no salesman so read that as lost a lot of money, buying unsatisfactory gear for decades. I wasted a ton of money, time, etc. To be fair I didn’t want to go tubes due to their limited life span. Solid state was not very impressive at any price. Reviewers have multiple issues, not the least of which is that if they give your amp a bad review, you feel wronged, and you won’t visit their site nor click on their links. So, even "class A" gear may be junk, and if you like lively, or mellow, and the reviewer’s boat is floated by a different sound, unbeknownst to you his review is worthless to you. If you can’t afford fantastic, consider headphones. Drop will be making another run of Focal Elex headphones in March I believe. You’d have to spend a lot more to actually spank them across the board, but these are going to be detailed, I cannot advise you on good Vandersteen like cans, as headphones are called. The little Schiit Magni Heresy is an awesome little headphone amp, yours may have a headphone out too, I know the name, but not their lines. That might keep you quite content for quite awhile until you can save enough for your dream system. Despite what many here have said, there are many very good older speakers out there. I have Paradigm Studio 100 V3’s, which I believe were the best cabinets they made in the series before cheapening them. I modified the amps in some of their active 40’s. IMO, at least the older Paradigms are good TV speakers, very good, but they don’t hold their own against good stereo speakers. I have B&W 801Ms with quality film and foil caps bypassing all the electrolytic capacitors in the audio path. I almost certainly replaced any resistors in the audio path with mills non-indective wire wound resistors. The 801s have an alluring distinctive house sound, bypassing the electrolytic capacitors cleans that up considerably. It was a little difficult for me to decide whether I preferred the house sound, or the more accurate sound, I guess I had a Vandersteen moment, though even with the electrolytic capacitors Vandersteens sounded like the B&Ws minus the details. Let’s just say that the old 801s are awesome both ways, but I prefer the better components a little more. I could go on, but it would just be redundant. Some old speakers are awesome, more suck than are awesome. I used to think that the newer B&W speakers were bright, but I heard a set driven by Spectral that wasn’t. I can’t say if the others were driven by bright gear or if the Spectral gear was a hair on the darker side, but before I bought either I’d find out because if they are compensating for the other gear, and somehow you lose this or that, your system could go from very good, to very bad quickly. Neutral, and by that I mean YOUR neutral should be the goal for everything you buy. I tried for decades to get Electrostatic Dipole speakers to work for me, I’d buy this or that to compensate, and it was never satisfying, listening fatigue settled in quickly. Go for your neutral, and go big. If not you’ll just burn through piles of cash for unsatisfactory sound.

@carlsbad , even if on stands.  Bookshelve speakers do sound good, but towers sound better.  I driven many bookshelves beyond the new models with my ML 27, Yamaha MX-1000 or MX-1, as the volume gets higher those speakers are hitting their limits.  I always said you cannot compare a speaker that weighs 25lbs (bookshelve) vs 100lb (floor standing). The vibration and resonance is un-matched.  Every can have their own opinion, just like people.who say mid-fi and hi-fi.  Some people who spend $1k on a amp and some members say its mid-fi.  

Cheers.  Henry

@lous I am solidly in the Vandersteen camp but i think your knowledge of what they sound like is dated . Lets start with your assertion of electrolytic in the tweeter filter. They are NOT nor have never been in the audio signal path. The audio path is bypassed film. The electrolytic caps as used in Vandersteen speakers are super important parts as they form a Zobel network or anti-tanking or a resonance peak filter to flatten out the impedance  curve. When you bypassed those you honked up a great filter design. RV and i go back to 1981, i think i understand his filter design. I would also encourage you to hear newer Vandersteen designs or updates. My best to you ! enjoy the music. RV picks up the phone at the factory.

Jim

Just a suggestion to consider:  Look at Axiom Audio speakers.   I have the Bryston Model T's fully active and they are spectacular.   Axiom owns Bryston and they make all of the Bryston speakers, however they have their own line which is very similar, but not as expensive.   Axiom has the B stock page and the refurb page.  I'd look at the B stock as it is all the latest versions offered; only they are factory seconds with minor cosmetic blemishes on the cabinet work.  You can get them at really decent discounts.   This is top of the line equipment all made in Canada and it sounds exceptional.  

@carlsbad , figure to use Japanese midfi as people say in the forum.

Wanted to jam my bookshelf speakers for the weekend.

I have built in bookshelves. Over the years I have used a pair of front ported Mirage....a set of Guru....and Linn Sara Isobarik(current). All 3 without subs. All 3 had sufficient bass. I had to raise the Linns to actually decrease bass. All 3 had good dispersion. The Mirage also has 90% efficiency and can be found used for a few hundred or less. The Guru might cost a bit more used. The Linns maybe 500-800 depending on condition. My shelves have LPs and books as boundaries on the side within a couple inches, but it is amazing to me how well they each overcome this placement. You basically want a speaker that is at least as wide as it is deep, or a speaker that can be placed horizontally.

expresstrain, you might look at the front ported offerings from Elac:

I am considering the B6.2 or DBR62 for my workshop and/or living room/TV systems.  Both applications need the speakers pretty close to the wall.  Front ported should be better in an actual bookcase as mentioned before.

Tomic601

Hi Tomic601, 

I hope that you will receive notification with regards to this reply. I don't want to have the last word by you not being alerted. I don't have access to that circuit anymore, but for the heck of it I replaced the tweeters with Hiquphons, and, although they tapered off too soon, they sounded far better, with no honking which you were speaking of. I can't say about anything beyond the 2CE or was there a 2CEI? I thought it was a 2CEI, but I couldn't recall if they made such a speaker. So, for the sake of avoiding an argument, if the original tweeters honked, then he must have been compensating for a tweeter issue. Either way, the caps were not replaced, they were bypassed so the capacitance was increased by .01uf, that would have made no difference as electrolytic capacitors are usually +/- 10% of rated value. Adding .01uf at 600V would hardly effect that. In series capacitance decreases, in series they increase due to the increased size of the plates that the signal has to deal with. As for his later speakers, I'd have to hear that as it would be an about face for him, unless his boys have taken over. I hope they have shifted gears, they, and Thiel, as far as I know, were the only American manufactures of any size who made phase and time aligned speakers, and I believe that no one bought Thiel and brought them back into production. I was just surprised when that happened, by-passing caps generally clears up the sound because most electrolytic capacitors suck. Black Gates sucked a bit less, but usually by-passing could improve even them. Which reminds me, I haven't visited Audio Note to see if they and Rubycon ever got their version of Black Gates into production since the patent has lapsed on the graphite technology that made the BG caps conduct low level detail so much better than other electrolytic caps.. Anyway, although I am skeptical, I appreciate your input and may try to locate a dealer, though I have gone full range because I have never met a passive crossover that sounds better than no crossover. Frankly I didn't believe the claims until I heard it for myself.

For $800, but not $1k? Okay let’s face it, there’s not a speaker in the world at your price point even near the Magnepan LRS. Those speakers are light years ahead of anything else at that price point. End of story. 

I would have also given a +1 for the Maggie LRS, but it appears size matters.

If I could take the bass from my Wharefdale Diamond 10.1s (currently back-benched) and put it into my ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 speakers that are in my office, I’d be able to suggest a top-notch, value bookshelf speaker with amazing sound.  Both on their own are outstanding in their own rights, but one has better bass, the other better detail and higher-end extension.  

I haven’t seen anyone recommend the Wharfedale Denton. You might try and find a pair of those on sale.

Everything I’ve read about the Dentons and the Diamond 225 is that they require space from the wall to perform as reviewed. 
 

FWIW, I had a pair of Diamond 220s in my kitchen, up against a wall, and they sounded fine but kinda dull and grainy. 
 

Rega RS1s are another good choice against a wall. And Kef Q100s (older front ported design)

OP here. Thanks again for all of the sage advice! I am definitely out of my league here in terms of budget and experience, but it’s good to get advice from those who know a lot more than me. I need to go through all of this information in detail once I have a couple of hours free. Just some general comments:

1) The bookshelf on which the speakers are placed is an open Etagere style bookshelf with an open back, so there is approximately 10" of space between the back of the speaker and the wall. Still not ideal, but maybe not as bad as an enclosed bookshelf with the speaker pushed up against the back panel.

2) The Jamo 803s which I currently have on the bookshelf are front ported, and perhaps that is why I feel that the Jamos sound great for what I paid for them (around $130 for the pair). But if I narrow down my choices to front or side-ported speakers that would fit within the bookshelf space (less than 14-1/2" height) I have much smaller category of choices. Elacs are often front-ported, but most won’t meet the height requirement. Perhaps the Golden Ear BRX would be a good choice? I haven’t seen that mentioned by anyone. The LS50s would fit in that space, but are rear-ported. I think I would likely get stands if I ended up getting the LS50s, however.  Many of the speakers on my shortlist are too tall.  The Klipsch 600Ms are too tall.  And the Monitor Audio Silver 100s are 1/4" too tall.  The Polk R200s would fit but are rear-ported.  

3) I do have a subwoofer (Polk PSW111).

@expresstrain That’s good info. When folks talk about space from the wall they measure from the front of the speaker. So if you pull them out a smidge or so you should have 20”-24” if I’m understanding you correctly. 
 

Will the shelf you use have the tweeter line up with your ears in your sitting position? This is crucial  

Rega RS1s will fit - check out some reviews and threads. If you’re interested DM me - I have a pair I’m not using. 

Hello expresstrain

You can check out Sound Artist LS3/5A that sound similar to Harbeth. They are small, have great tonality and go very well in bookshelves attached to the wall, if needed you can add a Sub. You can check Youtube for many reviews. I am very happy with them.